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After Smash Bros. Ultimate...where will Smash Bros. go?

zeldasmash

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This is something that I've been wondering. Smash Bros. Ultimate is the biggest Smash game we'll likely ever get with every veteran fighter from the series being playable, almost all of the stages from previous (but not all) being in, etc. However, with Sakurai's statements of this being as the Colonel in Brawl put it "a once in a lifetime chance"...

...where does Smash Bros go after Ultimate? It's likely the series will continue as it is a walking money machine for Nintendo but I don't see it being better or at least as big and ambitious as Ultimate. The only thing I can think off is a reboot with a different roster.

What do you guys think?
 

Enchess

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This is something that I've been wondering. Smash Bros. Ultimate is the biggest Smash game we'll likely ever get with every veteran fighter from the series being playable, almost all of the stages from previous (but not all) being in, etc. However, with Sakurai's statements of this being as the Colonel in Brawl put it "a once in a lifetime chance"...

...where does Smash Bros go after Ultimate? It's likely the series will continue as it is a walking money machine for Nintendo but I don't see it being better or at least as big and ambitious as Ultimate. The only thing I can think off is a reboot with a different roster.

What do you guys think?
They could reboot with different roster, do a sequel with a lot of cuts, or keep rereleasing updated versions of Ultimate for all time (I'm not sure people would actually mind this).

If they do a reboot, Im really hoping for 3 hard rules for roster inclusion: (1) max 2 character, (2) every character added gets their villain/rival if one exists, (3) no third parties. I know it's a pipe dream, but by the second title in a reboot like that the coverage of Nintendo history would be amazing. There's no way we wouldn't have Saki or Isaac by now.

One other route they definitely won't take but I would enjoy is something I call Smash B-Side. It would be a sequel to Ultimate with an interesting twist. No returning characters. Not even Mario. Instead, the game would be a celebration of the most obscure. Whereas G&W was a shocking choice in Melee, he'd be a shoe in for B-Side if he wasn't in Smash already. I also think a hypothetical Smash B-Side should go all-in on the competitive side because you aren't going to convince the casual crowds without Mario so you are pretty much forced to appeal to the competitive. Then we have 2 Smash series moving forward each targetted at very different audiences.
 

Wyoming

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That's not for another decade easily so that question has time to be answered.

I disagree with a reboot. Sakurai has trouble cutting characters. So if he returns for Smash 6/7, I doubt we'll see him cutting 20+ characters because they are deemed irrelevant, pointless or extra fat.

If Sakurai does not return, then a reboot is a possibility. But honestly, rather than doing that, I'd like that new director to make a spin off based on a traditional fighter. That way new ideas can come forth and they can start off with a clean slate with no fans wanting their heads for cutting so much content.

Another idea is that they'll simply port Ultimate to the next console with new stuff on it. Honestly, they probably could if the game is a success.
 

LunarDistortion

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I honestly think this is Sakurai's last hurrah for Smash Bros before he moves on to better things. I can also see this as being the last Smash game as we know Smash Bros to be. The next time we will see another Smash Bros game, it will have been a very long while and it will look very different than it does now with a whole new overall direction.

!remindme 2023 :laugh:
 

ssjayy

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There's no way they'd let the series end with the amount of money they make out of it. Sakurai might not be the one directing it but it'll continue regardless.
 

LunarDistortion

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I'm not saying it's gonna end, it just might take a break for it to return with a new director.

Smash Bros. as a series won't end, but the era of Sakurai Smash Bros. will imo.
 

Impa4Smash

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It needs to either be ported with some characters and modes being added each time.

Or completely rebooted. New roster, new style/mechanic.

Any characters cuts after Ultimate besides a complete overhaul would be a let down - and even then it still might be.
 

MysticKnives

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I'm not saying it's gonna end, it just might take a break for it to return with a new director.

Smash Bros. as a series won't end, but the era of Sakurai Smash Bros. will imo.
Maybe. Even his interview about it essentially says it’s possible this is his last one by it’s also possible he continues on making another one.
 

Koopaul

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Or completely rebooted. New roster, new style/mechanic.

Any characters cuts after Ultimate besides a complete overhaul would be a let down - and even then it still might be.
I think that's why it will be highly likely that the next Smash game will be completely different, because you are right, people won't accept cuts in a regular Smash game.

That's why the series will probably get an overhaul. People won't feel sad that their character got cut because the game would so different anyway.
 

MrRoidley

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Pretty sure I'll have a more concrete opinion after I play Ultimate and its "original run" (as in all DLCs/updates) go by, but now, I think that, the way Sakurai has been saying much more than before that "The Smash series may continue even with not me on board" and "This feat of bringing every single character is something that may not be repeated in the future" I think they'd go into a reboot. Because a proper direct sequel to Ultimate with cuts wouldn't feel right, and not sure if Nintendo would like to keep updating Ultimate up to the point it's ported to a future console. So, I guess the way to go after it would be a reboot.
30 characters in base game (which I guess post-game updates could bring some really wanted veterans back), with returning veterans having major revisions in moveset, all new stages, guess a whole new set of singleplayer modes, whole new engine and mechanics... idk that's how I feel, even if it definitely wouldn't sound as attractive as Ultimate, at least at first
 

**Gilgamesh**

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That's not for another decade easily so that question has time to be answered.

I disagree with a reboot. Sakurai has trouble cutting characters. So if he returns for Smash 6/7, I doubt we'll see him cutting 20+ characters because they are deemed irrelevant, pointless or extra fat.

If Sakurai does not return, then a reboot is a possibility. But honestly, rather than doing that, I'd like that new director to make a spin off based on a traditional fighter. That way new ideas can come forth and they can start off with a clean slate with no fans wanting their heads for cutting so much content.

Another idea is that they'll simply port Ultimate to the next console with new stuff on it. Honestly, they probably could if the game is a success.
Sakurai was already considering axing 2/3 of the roster to reboot the series. He said this during his Famistu column; but instead chose to work on the existing smash.
 

soviet prince

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I just can't get hyped for a reboot, it feels like a step down.
 

ZeroJinKui

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They could reboot with different roster, do a sequel with a lot of cuts, or keep rereleasing updated versions of Ultimate for all time (I'm not sure people would actually mind this).

If they do a reboot, Im really hoping for 3 hard rules for roster inclusion: (1) max 2 character, (2) every character added gets their villain/rival if one exists, (3) no third parties. I know it's a pipe dream, but by the second title in a reboot like that the coverage of Nintendo history would be amazing. There's no way we wouldn't have Saki or Isaac by now.

One other route they definitely won't take but I would enjoy is something I call Smash B-Side. It would be a sequel to Ultimate with an interesting twist. No returning characters. Not even Mario. Instead, the game would be a celebration of the most obscure. Whereas G&W was a shocking choice in Melee, he'd be a shoe in for B-Side if he wasn't in Smash already. I also think a hypothetical Smash B-Side should go all-in on the competitive side because you aren't going to convince the casual crowds without Mario so you are pretty much forced to appeal to the competitive. Then we have 2 Smash series moving forward each targetted at very different audiences.
first of all, that is... extremely ignorant to say, no offense... thinking casuals won't be interested because of mario not being involved is just silly.

the roster in no way has any effect on the casual or competitive crowd appeal.

also, every game has its casuals, even dark souls.

anyway, i don't see nintendo appealing SOLELY to hardcore competitive crowds... even sakurai heavily regrets making melee as competitive as he made it.

i see them atleast attempting to strike a balance.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
This is something that I've been wondering. Smash Bros. Ultimate is the biggest Smash game we'll likely ever get with every veteran fighter from the series being playable, almost all of the stages from previous (but not all) being in, etc. However, with Sakurai's statements of this being as the Colonel in Brawl put it "a once in a lifetime chance"...

...where does Smash Bros go after Ultimate? It's likely the series will continue as it is a walking money machine for Nintendo but I don't see it being better or at least as big and ambitious as Ultimate. The only thing I can think off is a reboot with a different roster.

What do you guys think?
I do not want to know most likely a overhaul possibly the 64 roster and what ever random stuff they put in the game like Santa Claus all jokes aside I hope Sakurai stays
first of all, that is... extremely ignorant to say, no offense... thinking casuals won't be interested because of mario not being involved is just silly.

the roster in no way has any effect on the casual or competitive crowd appeal.

also, every game has its casuals, even dark souls.

anyway, i don't see nintendo appealing SOLELY to hardcore competitive crowds... even sakurai heavily regrets making melee as competitive as he made it.

i see them atleast attempting to strike a balance.
True
 
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Astraltar

Smash Apprentice
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My guess is "Smash Bros. 99" with 99 fighters laid out on a 20 x 5 grid (and of course one space for Random) They'll just add more and more stuff to it making it an even bigger and bigger game. And i'm pretty sure it will be made by a different director than Sakurai.
 

Koopaul

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I just can't get hyped for a reboot, it feels like a step down.
You don't even know what a reboot could entail. It could be better than Smash currently is. And if it's not, we always have the old Smash games to play.

I welcome a change in the series. There's only so much you can tack on to the old Smash before it gets too bloated. Starting again with a completely new direction (maybe a 3D fighting game?) will be exciting because you won't know what to expect. With Smash Ultimate we kind of have a good idea what the game will be like. We've played this game for 20 years. And while it's changed a lot with each installment, it's very much the same formula.

If you have to ask yourself: "What will the new Final Destination look like?" because you know there will always be a Final Destination, and know it will always be the flat stage you fight Master Hand on... Maybe the series has become too predictable.
 

UltimateWario

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I'd absolutely love to see Nintendo's take on a traditional fighter. I think everyone at some point has thought or said, "What if Smash Bros. was a 'true' fighting game?" I say this as someone who doesn't really like traditional fighting games, because I know Nintendo would probably find a way to make it accessible to the casual crowd. Getting your footing in Smash Fighter could end up getting people into other fighting games like Street Fighter or Tekken.

They could also do something on a 3D plane, which I think would really draw a crowd.
 

soviet prince

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smash to me is a platforming game and if it's changed to a 3d fighter it will lose it's charm to me, fell more like a spin off then smash. The way we been doing for 20 years works so why change it for the sake of change. I hate when ppl say the sequel to a game play like the first one with not much differences in the gameplay just improvements like it's a bad thing. It plays like the first one because thats what the game is if it was something new it be a different game and not a sequel. I hate when franchise changes things that work just so they can say something is different
 

Leaf_It

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Smash Bros is such a unique fighting game, it could almost be it's own Genre. The appeal that it has is different than the appeal that traditional fighters like Street Fighter, Mortal Combat, or Tekken have. Sure there's overlap, but if they decided to make a traditional fighter, and try to pass it off as a reboot of Smash Bros. many fans of the series would see it as a betrayal from Nintendo.

My pipe dream would be to see Smash Ultimate continue on like Team Fortress 2, and World of WarCraft have. Obviously not exactly like these games, but for Nintendo to keep supporting it endlessly, just as these games have been supported for over 10 years, and counting. Release new content for it for years to come, and update the engine as technology advances. I know that I, and many other would be disappointed if any future Smash game didn't have the same roster. Any cuts will hurt no matter who they are. Anyone who thinks that a character can be cut without hurting at least some of the fan base is delusional. The fact of the matter is that I can't see a new Smash game ever being ambitious enough to try and do this again. I want it, but I don't think it will happen.
 
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Yokta

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Super Smash Bros Vs. Playstation AllStars.

The only thing more exciting than a massive company wide crossover is a crossover between two companies that are otherwise directly competing.

Tell me you wouldn't be excited to see Fox vs. Ratchet, Pit vs. Kratos, Inkling vs. Parappa, Captain Falcon vs. Sweet Tooth, Link vs. Aloy, Villager vs. Sackboy, and so much more.

This could ease be the Marvel vs. DC of videogames.
 

MysticKnives

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You don't even know what a reboot could entail. It could be better than Smash currently is. And if it's not, we always have the old Smash games to play.

I welcome a change in the series. There's only so much you can tack on to the old Smash before it gets too bloated. Starting again with a completely new direction (maybe a 3D fighting game?) will be exciting because you won't know what to expect. With Smash Ultimate we kind of have a good idea what the game will be like. We've played this game for 20 years. And while it's changed a lot with each installment, it's very much the same formula.

If you have to ask yourself: "What will the new Final Destination look like?" because you know there will always be a Final Destination, and know it will always be the flat stage you fight Master Hand on... Maybe the series has become too predictable.
A reboot of the Smash series where it's gameplay is very similar to the Power Stone games could be really fun. When a reboot (likely) happens, I really hope that's the direction it goes in.
 

Frihetsanka

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They could also do something on a 3D plane, which I think would really draw a crowd.
Starting again with a completely new direction (maybe a 3D fighting game?) will be exciting because you won't know what to expect.
You guys might want to check out Pokkén Tournament (DX).

A reboot sounds like a sure way to split the community even further, with Smash Ultimate, Smash Reboot, and Smash Melee. Considering how one of the major appeal of a new Smash game is seeing new characters, I find it highly unlikely that a reboot with like 30 characters would really work. If you want to play a traditional fighting game, there are plenty of those out there.
 

OhMyBanana54

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Here’s an idea: what if we had a huge crossover game? Like super smash bros: Nintendo vs Microsoft or Sony or even Disney. That way they bring in a brand new audience and introduce even more iconic characters to Smash.
 

mechmaster90

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They'll do a new one on the next gen console with a new engine, more characters, more everything.
 

DaDavid

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I'm betting we sort of reset the clock on the next one. There's simply no way that they can keep stacking more and more on top of what's already there as the selling point. Sakurai himself has said that he doubt every character will ever happen again.

I'm not saying we'll end up back at 12 characters with a handful of stages, but, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see everything pared back and refined with a no subtitle Super Smash Bros sometime in the 20's.
 

soviet prince

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I'm betting we sort of reset the clock on the next one. There's simply no way that they can keep stacking more and more on top of what's already there as the selling point. Sakurai himself has said that he doubt every character will ever happen again.

I'm not saying we'll end up back at 12 characters with a handful of stages, but, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see everything pared back and refined with a no subtitle Super Smash Bros sometime in the 20's.
20's is not that much better
 

Logo12

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I've said this before E3. Smash is in a really awkward position between expanding and not expanding.

There's probably 2 dimensions in the "potential direction" in question. One being mechanical changes, and the other being roster size.

These are the scenarios I've thought of:
1530542073069.png

A. PORT
This is probably the "safest" option Nintendo has to at least not "anger" any fans: Just porting the game to whatever new console there is. Maybe give some extra balancing changes, add a few trophies, add a few songs, stages or costumes, but that's it. Sure, it will get a lot of complaints about being just a port. Given how Smash Ultimate isn't even exactly what anyone with a common sense would call a "port", yet there are some people calling out for being "just an enhanced port", or just complaining because of less newcomers, this is inevitably going to be a controversial decision. However, in the same way, people don't like cuts. No matter who you cut, there will be some voices asking to bring them back. Sakurai knows this and is probably why he even decided to make an "Ultimate" version over a new revision in the first place.

Since Sakurai also said that this "probably will never happen again", porting the game gives the advantage that people will not rage over whoever/whatever getting cut. It's also the best(?) way to prevent further division, with this being the "definitive" edition after all.
B. EXPERIMENT
Another way to play safe, at least for those who cares about character they already have over anything else. They can simply keep all the characters, add only a few when needed (e.g. new really strong IPs like Inklings), and focus more on improving gameplay than expanding the roster. It will probably take much longer time to polish/balance everything, but at the same time no one can complain that they "can't play XXX mode with YYY character". This is the compromise between having a "new direction" and having "no cuts". Whether it is even manageable is another question, however.

This is in my opinion the optimal "direction" to go for, but is honestly out of selfish reasons. Everyone but one of my most wanteds are in (hint: Those in are all veterans), so I don't care about newcomers anymore. Heck, I didn't even care about most of the entries in Smash 4, I just wanted Wolf back in. But since there are probably a lot more characters you all want out there, YMMV here.
C. REBOOT
This is the way Sakurai originally planned to go. Cutting everything in order to save development time, and instead focus on moving the series into an entirely new direction. The resulting roster would probably be around 20 (Sakurai's estimate) to 30 (Optimistic estimate). That is, if your main is one of those non-main character of a series, or even a main character of a non-prominent series, chances are you're not going to be able to play as your main again. Sadly this is probably also the most likely scenario. Given how Sakurai also went to this direction to begin with. Again, like the man himself said, an ultimate version like this will probably never happen again, so if they really went this way, there's no turning back.

Like a few of you mentioned, this is probably the "best" way to further split the fanbase. Especially after an installment that tried to bring everything back together again? Ultimate will end up being the 2nd Melee of the series. Not because of its gameplay (could be, but not mainly), but because of the roster it provided. This direction is also a double edged sword. If it's done well? Well cool, Smash might be even more successful than it already is. If not? It will just further trap the series into a complex situation. Continue experimenting and you end up with a situation like Paper Mario. Go back and you end up with a situation like with Star Fox. And even by then, you're stuck in this roadmap again.

Also like some people mentioned, if this ever happens it would feel like at best a "spinoff". But current clues points towards this "spinoff" being the inevitable future.
D. "CHANGING SPOTLIGHT"
This is one of the weirder options available, basically cutting some characters in favor of "giving some more obscure characters a spotlight". Think those fangames like Crusade or Flash2. Or what some Sakurai haters think Smash would be like if he stepped down.

Basically everything in option C applies here. Except it being likely. It may happen, I don't know, but I for sure wouldn't enjoy it. Should Smash go towards this direction, I'm just gonna pretend stuff after this game didn't exist, or simply not part of the series.

This has another problem, being that it further worsens the "roster size dilemma" we had in the first place. We're lucky to have everyone back this time, but if for some reason Nintendo decides that Smash should go in a direction where half of the roster is cut and replaced with some 10 or 20 more new characters, this would make a 2nd Ultimate truly impossible.
E. EXPANSION
I suppose this is simple enough: They don't care about the mechanic or even balance, or maybe even the potential problem with the CSS anymore, and just throw in whatever characters there are to add. Basically the opposite of option B, while still trying to keep the fans happy with the roster. The problem would be, as I've mentioned, the problem with balance and CSS. The current roster is big enough as it is and it may already scare away some new to this game, having so much character to choose from or fight against that it may be hell to learn/complete the whole game. Same with the developer side: balancing would be devilishly hard. Testing each character for bugs would be as well.

And this doesn't exactly solve the existing problems either. Like option A you're not splitting the fanbase, but delaying the split of it. Roster size is ever expanding and if you cut one, the character's fans will complain, but if you add more, it will be more of a burden. The problem lies in the concept of Smash itself. It's a crossover game that means that people are probably going to want as much character as possible. But at the same time having too much characters is not possible and there must be a line drawn for the limit of characters. Smash being basically a staple for each console doesn't help either, as that means the series must go forward in some direction, the question being which.

Further expanding the roster as if there isn't a problem is technically a direction one can go with, but not necessarily a solution, as with option A, you will end up in the same Roadmap again.

So, if Nintendo decides that they can somehow handle the ever-increasing roster, this might be the option they're taking even for this game (with DLC), maybe even porting this game to later consoles.
...

Then there are also a few other weird options like seriously trying to go back to a certain game (mechanic wise or mode selection wise), or just trying to "catch 'em all" with an even more "deluxe" version that maybe supports previous game physics or modes.

Point is, whichever direction Smash goes with, there are going to be some problems. Which is whether the fans can accept the change. Unless one of these 2 happens:
  • Fans accepts whatever change there will be with Smash, and stops caring about the old games
  • Nintendo accepts that whatever they do the series will probably be divided, and stops caring about "uniting" the fans
Smash is forever stuck with the above-mentioned dilemma.

I'd like to hear about everyone's opinion on the 5 scenarios tho.
 
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soviet prince

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there is plenty of games I believe that do go over 70+ characters.
 

Crystanium

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I've been saying this for a while now, but if there is another Super Smash Bros., the roster will probably be reduced. Or, that's what I'd prefer. Each series has a protagonist and antagonist. It's possible to introduce 24 characters total, with four new characters being playable. If Fire Emblem was reduced, the antagonist could be Medeus. With Dark Pit as more of an anti-hero who ends up siding with Pit, Medusa or Hades could be the antagonist. Because Pikachu is a beloved character, adding it to Pokémon Trainer's team could be a possibility, with Mewtwo being the antagonist. Or, the opposite of Pokémon Trainer could be Team Rocket, which could introduce three more characters. The Mother series could drop Lucas and bring Giygus. With Pokémon Trainer and Team Rocket, that goes over 24 characters, and DJ Octavio as an antagonist to Inkling brings in one extra.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Simple answer...make a sequel or start doing ports
Super Smash Bros Vs. Playstation AllStars.

The only thing more exciting than a massive company wide crossover is a crossover between two companies that are otherwise directly competing.

Tell me you wouldn't be excited to see Fox vs. Ratchet, Pit vs. Kratos, Inkling vs. Parappa, Captain Falcon vs. Sweet Tooth, Link vs. Aloy, Villager vs. Sackboy, and so much more.

This could ease be the Marvel vs. DC of videogames.
Doesn’t sound exciting to me
 
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