Aerial Flame Choke to Down Smash

[MGK]

A while back, I watched Gungnir's Promotion Video and saw that from an Aerial Flame Choke against DK, Gungnir punished DK's roll away with a Down Smash.

Gungnir's Promotion Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRTFDIrGX8w ( Happens at 2:38. )

So I did some tests and these are the results on how to punish a roll away from a aerial flame choke.

Spoiler: Down Smash

Spoiler: Down Tilt

Spoiler: Forward Smash

Also, Wizard Kick and Flame Choke works on everyone as well. I did quick tests on half the cast that get dSmashed and all of them got hit by both. Then I did all the others that dodge the dSmash and they got hit as well by both.

Hope this helps.

 

[Theosmeo]

So this is only if you read a roll away? Seems handy, it hits behind as well so could it catch a roll behind?
I usually shield right after an aerudo because of getup attack on shield scores me a free grab, and ftilt if they roll behind(although this isn't guarenteed). I'm really happy to have an option for roll away now!

God I watched that whole video and I knew he was aggressive and creative but that man is an ANIMAL!

 

[MGK]

Yeah, this is only for a roll away. There are a few set ups where the opponent feels like rolling away is the safest option.

The 2 sets I know are:

- Jump from the ledge get up into instant Aerial Flame Choke.
- Wizard foot ledge cancel into Aerial Flame Choke (As seen in the video)

Since the opponent is right next to the ledge, they have a higher chance of rolling away since they want to get as far away from the ledge as possible and into the center of the stage. Great thing about this though is your right on the ledge so Down Smash will kill them at around 80 + %.

This is amazing against Ryu and Greninja because of the simple fact of you get no guaranteed follow up from a normal flame choke missed tech. Like you said, your opponent will most likely do a get up attack as they have a frame advantage, shield is our only option and we get a shield grab.

As for hitting behind, I'm sure it'll hit everyone but I'm 90% sure they can shield it and punish. So probably best to stick with fTilt.

 

[Z1GMA]

Pretty cool how Dsmash also hits fat ppl if they decide to lie still in this scenario.

 

[Theosmeo]

Which ones do Fsmash work on if Dsmash also works? If I read a roll away at center stage it´ll kill earlier right?

 

[MGK]

Which ones do Fsmash work on if Dsmash also works? If I read a roll away at center stage it´ll kill earlier right?

I remember DK, Kirby, Charizard and maybe Bowser and Greninja. I'll need to test this but I'm 90% sure these are the characters fSmash hits.

 

[adom4]

I really think this needs to be added to the guide thread, this is really useful.

 

[Theosmeo]

Is there anyone that shield > dash attack works on? It seems like that'll protect against getup attack, wait, and roll away. But you'll still get hit by wait > getup attack. Nobody will roll behind because Fsmash(probably, they might try to fake you out though)

 

[Opana]

Oh wow I compiled this list myself and we already had one -_-

I can confirm dsmash is the goat though, and that it misses olimar on getup

 

[Theosmeo]

Could we get jab/ftilt/dtilt on olimar? I know he has the latest I-frames on buffered rolls and getup attack

 

[MGK]

Hey Guys, just a quick update. I tested Bay and Corrin with aerial side B to dSmash if they roll away. We are lucky to find out that Corrin gets hit by it. I didn't test dTilt on either of them so I'll do that some time today. This is really good news since we get nothing off of missed tech grounded side B.

 

[verbatim]

DLC characters don't get hit by dtilt out of Flame Choke. It's like, a law at this point.

 

[adom4]

Again asking @Vermanubis or @Ray_Kalm to add the follow ups to the guide thread, this is incredibly useful.
edit: MGK did you test out the miis? do they get hit by anything?

 

[Blobface]

If this kind of thing helps you remember, I alphabetized them.

Spoiler: Down Smash

Spoiler: Down Tilt

Spoiler: Forward Smash (If Down Smash Misses)

 

[MGK]

Again asking @Vermanubis or @Ray_Kalm to add the follow ups to the guide thread, this is incredibly useful.
edit: MGK did you test out the miis? do they get hit by anything?

I can't quite remember but I'm pretty sure I did everyone, even the Mii's. I'll double check though.

Also, I know this isn't anything but just something to know but if bay rolls away from aerial flame choke, dSmash and dTilt miss.

Edit: Just tested the Mii's and none of them get dSmash.

 

[adom4]

With good timing we can probably D-smash those characters even out of a regular choke, does anyone know the exact timing for it?

 

[MGK]

Without doing any testing, I know for a fact that if Charizard or Bowser miss tech from side b and chooses to do roll away, roll in or even normal get up, dSmash hit's no matter what. (Just need to test if you need to charge or not) I'm 90% sure you don't have to but I'll run some tests.

I have also been doing other tests out of side B and have learnt a few neat tricks. I was vsing diddy and noticed that if he miss techs side b and chooses to roll in, he actually doesn't roll past ganondorf. So I tested what's the best option coverage for this and learnt uSmash connects. Charizard, Bowser and little mac are others that can't roll past ganondorf but oddly enough, only little mac rolls past ganondorf if you choose to uSmash.

To make things even better, at 0 - 12%, if you side B to uSmash (If diddy chooses to roll in or normal get up and if at the ledge, roll away), uSmash ends quick enough to get a follow up aerial. At 0%, FH Nair is the best option as it does 53% in total. You can also get a DJ Uair / FH Fair.

Lastly, I tested if the opponent chooses to roll behind ganondorf, if turn around uSmash connects and the results are very surprising as it hits most of the cast. (I'll make a new thread later today with my results)

 

[TheOrangeJacket]

Thanks for discovering this knowledge for aerial flame choke follow ups.

 

[mgleed]

MGK I'm curious about WK as a follow-up to rolling away from aerial flame choke. Do you know if the exceptions are the same as those who are safe from WK when techrolling away from grounded flame choke? (link, falco, ike, palutena, wft, zelda, bayonetta)

 

[MGK]

I would have to re test everything as I do know that they need a longer roll to get hit. I have seen my wiz kick miss Ryu from a aerial flame choke cos his roll is too short. This is guessing but anyone who doesn't get hit by the dSmash is a pretty safe bet the wiz kick will hit. Also, just on a general note, I have found doing a grounded flame choke to catch everyone but maybe Ike.

Would you like the results mgleed ?

 

[mgleed]

I would have to re test everything as I do know that they need a longer roll to get hit. I have seen my wiz kick miss Ryu from a aerial flame choke cos his roll is too short. This is guessing but anyone who doesn't get hit by the dSmash is a pretty safe bet the wiz kick will hit. Also, just on a general note, I have found doing a grounded flame choke to catch everyone but maybe Ike.

Would you like the results mgleed ?

I don't want to make you do any extra work, but if you have them, that'd be great, MGK . Thanks!

 

[MGK]

I just updated and it looks like everyone gets hit by wizard kick and flame choke. I did everyone that doesn't get hit by dSmash and they got hit by both. Then did half the characters that do get hit by dSmash and same results. My result with ryu was wrong because it's actually grounded flame choke, miss tech to roll away, wizard kick misses that. So my Bad.

I also did the Mii's and the gunner gets hit by dTilt. So that's something.

 

[adom4]

F-smash hits on roll away (thanks to evilgoku for that tidbit of information).

also gets screwed so hard by air choke it's not even funny, D-smash covers EVERY option except get up attack (Credit to Blobface ) & F-smash hits BOTH rolls, no need to even turn the F-smash around, just F-smash forward when he rolls either way and it will hit.

 

[Theosmeo]

I know perfect pivot in Fsmash gets slightly more range at the cost of like 3 frames, is there anyone that hits on roll away

 

[Blobface]

I know perfect pivot in Fsmash gets slightly more range at the cost of like 3 frames, is there anyone that hits on roll away

That could actually be really useful. I don't have anywhere near the technical prowess to test it though.

also gets screwed so hard by air choke it's not even funny, D-smash covers EVERY option except get up attack (Credit to Blobface ) & F-smash hits BOTH rolls, no need to even turn the F-smash around, just F-smash forward when he rolls either way and it will hit.

Also, if he getup attacks, you can shield and do D-smash OoS and still hit him. It's a true 50/50.