Advice on Puff

[BairSSBM]

I placed some of my lowest placings at this tournament since I started playing Melee and I'm not sure why. Fortunately, a couple of my sets were recorded. I have a few ideas on why I did so bad, but I wanted to see if you guys saw anything I didn't. The Sheik (Romulus) is my training partner; that set took way too long.

Bair(Me) vs A Sheik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qRgZGUiCso
(I realize he stuffed a lot of my attempted edgeguards with needles, and I'm not sure how to get around that)

Bair(Me) vs A Fox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1OPqv3trq4

 

[GenNyan]

I don't have time to watch the sets rn, but I just wanted to add that most of your aerials will stop needles.

 

[BairSSBM]

Thanks, if you get the chance to watch them that would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Archelon]

If you can trick a Sheik to DI in on D-throw I think you can rest them, and if they DI away I think you can pound> jab reset, but I'm not sure.

 

[S0FT]

So first stock of each:

Vs Sheik:

0:51-0:53: I really like how you started this match. You are right outside of sheiks range here, in control of center, and ready to react to where she lands with some kind of punish. Good job!

0:54-0:55: You should be reacting to what sheik is doing. She is double jumping and outside of your range. There is no need to nair here and it forces you to fade back to remain safe, giving up stage control.

0:57: You have to really try and avoid landing like this. You have a bunch more jumps to fade back with and land safely. Here you put yourself in a really bad position and landing the nair on sheik at 0 really isnt worth it.

1:02: You are in a great position if you drift back slightly and stay in the air. You can cutoff her jump by bairing over her head then react to whether she jumps and gets hit with your bair. If the bair lands you can take more space and if it doesn't you can fade back and remain safe.

1:03: You decide to crossup nair which covers her jump but doesnt lead to a good followup if it hits her, and you risk getting punished by her when you land unsafely like that.

1:08: Once again if you fade back slightly you are in a great position here.

1:09: Crossup nair again.

1:16: Crossup nair again.

Sidebar: The crossup nair is generally used to mixup landings if they are consistently punishing a faded back landing. There are more uses for it, but it is a riskier landing in general. You have done it a lot at this point and puff has safer options to cover sheiks jump as noted before.


1:23: Once again you have a really good position where you can rejump and either bair or fade back slightly then react to what sheik does.

1:24: Instead you make another bad landing AND give up all stage control.

I am going to stop here. It seems like sheik is allowing you to ideally position yourself for free, but instead of using that position to control the stage and force sheik to commit to something you can punish on reaction, you give it all up to land behind her. I would start focusing on staying in a position like 1:23 and try to punish her limited options on reaction.

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Vs Fox:

1:24-1:26: You are landing safely and preemptively aerialing to keep fox out. In this matchup preemptive aerials are necessary to prevent fox from running in because he is too fast to react too a lot of the time. This is different then vs peach or shiek because they are slow enough to react to in a lot more situations. Good job.

1:27: Here you make an extremely risky landing. There is no reward worth that risk imo especially when you can fade back and land safely.

2:11 This sh bair you do is pretty good but you don't have to commit so hard and you can double jump bair here instead of landing in an unsafe position

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It looks like you do a good job of initially gaining stage control, but you don't seem to be comfortable maintaining it. Try being a little more patient, wary with your landings, and focus on trying to react to your opponents limited options once they are cornered.

 

[BairSSBM]

So first stock of each:

Vs Sheik:

0:51-0:53: I really like how you started this match. You are right outside of sheiks range here, in control of center, and ready to react to where she lands with some kind of punish. Good job!

0:54-0:55: You should be reacting to what sheik is doing. She is double jumping and outside of your range. There is no need to nair here and it forces you to fade back to remain safe, giving up stage control.

0:57: You have to really try and avoid landing like this. You have a bunch more jumps to fade back with and land safely. Here you put yourself in a really bad position and landing the nair on sheik at 0 really isnt worth it.

1:02: You are in a great position if you drift back slightly and stay in the air. You can cutoff her jump by bairing over her head then react to whether she jumps and gets hit with your bair. If the bair lands you can take more space and if it doesn't you can fade back and remain safe.

1:03: You decide to crossup nair which covers her jump but doesnt lead to a good followup if it hits her, and you risk getting punished by her when you land unsafely like that.

1:08: Once again if you fade back slightly you are in a great position here.

1:09: Crossup nair again.

1:16: Crossup nair again.

Sidebar: The crossup nair is generally used to mixup landings if they are consistently punishing a faded back landing. There are more uses for it, but it is a riskier landing in general. You have done it a lot at this point and puff has safer options to cover sheiks jump as noted before.


1:23: Once again you have a really good position where you can rejump and either bair or fade back slightly then react to what sheik does.

1:24: Instead you make another bad landing AND give up all stage control.

I am going to stop here. It seems like sheik is allowing you to ideally position yourself for free, but instead of using that position to control the stage and force sheik to commit to something you can punish on reaction, you give it all up to land behind her. I would start focusing on staying in a position like 1:23 and try to punish her limited options on reaction.

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Vs Fox:

1:24-1:26: You are landing safely and preemptively aerialing to keep fox out. In this matchup preemptive aerials are necessary to prevent fox from running in because he is too fast to react too a lot of the time. This is different then vs peach or shiek because they are slow enough to react to in a lot more situations. Good job.

1:27: Here you make an extremely risky landing. There is no reward worth that risk imo especially when you can fade back and land safely.

2:11 This sh bair you do is pretty good but you don't have to commit so hard and you can double jump bair here instead of landing in an unsafe position

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It looks like you do a good job of initially gaining stage control, but you don't seem to be comfortable maintaining it. Try being a little more patient, wary with your landings, and focus on trying to react to your opponents limited options once they are cornered.

Thank you for the reply! A couple or questions (I'll try to keep it general so you don't have to watch those videos again):

1) How do I deal with a sheik needle camping and/or using needles at the edge to prevent me from approaching? (2:08 and 2:15 in the first video if that wasn't clear).
Watching it again it seemed he stuffed a lot of my attempted edgeguards with needles. Edgeguards should be a bit easier with puff, eh?

2) I seem to have approached with nair waayyyy too much (in both matches). Should I be exercising bair/fair a lot more? When should I look for a nair approach?

 

[tsm2k420XX]

Thank you for the reply! A couple or questions (I'll try to keep it general so you don't have to watch those videos again):

1) How do I deal with a sheik needle camping and/or using needles at the edge to prevent me from approaching? (2:08 and 2:15 in the first video if that wasn't clear).
Watching it again it seemed he stuffed a lot of my attempted edgeguards with needles. Edgeguards should be a bit easier with puff, eh?

2) I seem to have approached with nair waayyyy too much (in both matches). Should I be exercising bair/fair a lot more? When should I look for a nair approach?

I watched the matches, and a good friend of mine is trying to learn puff, so this will help me explain some things to him too. While he loves approaching with fair, and does not utilize bair enough. While nair is a good aerial, I see it being more of a mix-up or a landing aerial. Approaching with bair is the best option, but that doesn't mean you have to play defensive. Puff is much more versatile than she is made out to be, and you don't have to run away and spam bair, but I highly recommend using bair as your most used aerial, with fair as a close second. Watch soft at apex 2013, or tekk from dreamhack to see how they get their hits in neutral when they approach.

 

[JJnew]

I only saw 3 mins of your match against shiek...
quick few tips; your aproach with nair isnt bad, specially if you end up behind you opponent... but you dont fully use the advantage of being behind shiek... if shiek is shielding after you land behind her... try turn around and grab, or spam utilts, if an utilt conect it will mostlikely end up in a rest, and if you get the grab... think before you throw your oponent...
In my humble opinion, jiggly counterpicks shiek in fod and yoshi... and youll probably ask why... well they have the shortest platforms in all legal stages. Jiggs can dthrow in the middle of the stage forcing shiek to land on a platform where you can techchase her into rest quite easily (as soon as 0%), just jump just under where you see shiek is landing and prepare for the tech in place, then react (not guess). If you see the tech in place, just jump and rest asap, if not just follow shiek and rest her. Also carefull in yoshi´s platforms, where if you drift to much to the outside corner of the platform, you may endup resting outside and falling to your death.

Also, you need to mix your aproaches... try bairs, uairs and empty jumps into grab or utilts. You can even empty jump into crouch infront of shiek and bait a grab.