advice on different approaches?

[Cortte]

So I've been rolling Gren recently and he's an all around great character for my play style. I run Shifting Shuriken, Shadow Sneak, Explosion, and Hydro Pump. Typically I like to range people out with shuriken, and when I get in, I typically rely on smashes because they are fast and have nice reach. But lately it seems to me that I am missing more often, not because they are too far from me, but too close. Fsmash seems to have a dead zone on it. Whenever characters are right up in my face it seems to miss.

Because of this approaching is kind of hard to do without a reliable punish. I understand tilts, and Nair are a great option, but I don't know how to get into the mindset of actually using these tools to my advantage, as I get nervous when trying to approach with such close ranged attacks.

Anyone got advice for me on how to approach with Nair and or tilts?

 

[redcometchar]

I don't believe Nair is a safe approach, unless maybe it crosses your opponent up. Safe approaches are rare in this game anyway. Spaced F-tilt and D-tilt are good pokes. D-tilt leads into a lot too. Just keep zoning and wait for your chance. Maybe look into better punishes then raw smashes though.

 

[Snackss]

Greninja doesn't really approach like some characters might. His frame data sucks and his down smash is much too slow, so it's not to his advantage to "get in." Where he wants to be is where his shurikens will be hard to block but won't be punishable, and where he can punish with forward smash, dash grab, or up smash. You get them to approach you, but in a predictable way. Then you can crossup with neutral air, or try to space with retreating short hop forward air. If you ever find yourself doing random dash grabs, or even worse, dash attacks, then you need to rethink things. If you approach as Greninja, it's mainly to bait someone into doing something so you can punish it.

 

[MadCanard]

Does anyone ever use Substitute or Substitute Ambush to approach opponents that are using projectiles?

If you counter a projectile and hold either or up or down you will reappear where your opponent fired the projectile from. This only works up to a certain distance. You can be up to about 1/4 of Final Destination away from the opponent with normal substitute and about 1/2 FD away with Substitute Ambush.

 

[Snackss]

I always forget to do it. Mega Man's Crash Bomb basically lets you use Substitute at will, though.

 

[MadCanard]

I always forget to do it. Mega Man's Crash Bomb basically lets you basically use Substitute at will, though.

Yes it does. Olimar's pikmin do the same.

Although I believe using it with these moves won't "teleport" you to the opponent. You can still use them with sideways pointed substitute to get across the stage.

 

[bc1910]

As people have said you don't want to be approaching too often with Greninja but sometimes you WILL have to, so here are some pointers.

• Nair and dash attack are pretty safe on everything but shield. So on whiff or dodge (any kind of dodge; spotdodge, roll forward, roll backward) you should be safe if you don't hit, and actually if the opponent tries to punish you, you might be able to punish that.
• Fair isn't as good on whiff or dodge but is safe on shield. You should mix it up with Nair for a nice pair of approaching aerials.
• Bair is a reasonable move to approach with but it's best if you can run in, RAR, then do retreating Bair. I don't think it's as good for approaching as some Greninja players believe but it's not bad.
• Greninja has one of the best dash grabs in the game, pretty easy to approach with that most of the time.
• If people keep spotdodging your approaches (spotdodges are the most annoying defensive option IMO), especially dashgrabs, then run in, briefly shield, and grab out of shield. Make sure you're doing the standing grab, not the dash grab. Greninja's standing grab is really slow but it's very useful in this situation because it can grab the endlag of their spotdodge.

 

[RKzero10]

Howdy there! Approaching with Greninja can be a tricky task to do, believe me! I've been playing Greninja since day 1 on 3ds and even vanilla Greninja has a pretty hard time approaching. Greninja has a hard time approaching because most of his move can be unsafe due to his optimal moves for approaching like his aerials doesn't auto-cancel. His closest safe options for aerials is N-air and a properly space F-air, but like I said they have ending lag so you can easily shield grab N-air and F-air has a good amount of landing lag. Now reading may think I'm bashing his neutral game, but really I think he has a great means of the neutral, it's just you don't go ham with him like as an aggro play-style. Like characters like Little Mac and Captain Falcon, Greninja is more of a bait and switch character and a lot of people said this too that he is a READ DEPENDENT character. Like if you want to have a safe N-air you have to read if they're shielding or anticipating an approach, personally I use N-air to punish whiffed laggy moves or cross-ups.

Here are some good tips and options I feel is great for approaching and being in the neutral in your favor or perfectly (and who ever is looking at this, feel free to read it! It's free from charge!):

• D-tilt: Down tilt is a really quick move and can combo into itself at low percents. It's a nice poking tool and lowers your hit box a bit. Also you can D-tilt into Jab 1 and Jab 2 (Possibly Jab 3, character dependent) and it's a true combo (Percent and character dependent)
• F-tilt: With the new 1.0.8 Patch (Or the Ryu, Roy, Lucas Patch) Greninja has a new move in his arsenal when it comes to approaches and the neutral. His F-tilt got a buff so it's MUCH fast and has a damage boost too. F-tilt also has good range and one of the most ranged moves Greninja has (other than his Water Shuriken). F-tilt can out range many things and good for footsies and can beat grabs since it's an attack. But most importantly, F-tilt creates a 50/50 at early percents when you hit your opponent and the 50/50 is dash grab (When your opponent shields) and N-air (To punish any other defensive options that is not shield)
• N-air: In speaking of N-air! N-air is a pretty nice move, but it can be unsafe on shield and like I said I really only use this for cross-ups or punishing
• Dash Attack: Now dash attacks are good zone breakers but it does not mean that it's safe all the time. Now this doesn't apply to Greninja it applies to A LOT MORE CHARACTERS. So really only use it on over committed moves that you can punish quickly with a dash attack
• Grab and Dash Grab/Boost Grab: Grabs is another great option but not your standing grab. Standing grab is really but, not a lot of range and can laggy. Dash grab/Boost grabs are much faster and have so much more range that standing grab.

Now my last thing I have to say is to master Perfect Pivoting, his D-tilt and his F-tilt is a lot better and can add pressure when you perfect pivot, now I know that there is most likely a thread about Perfect Pivoting. Perfect Pivoting can even make your U-tilt into an approach option!

Well that was a long message but I hope it help and if anyone needs any tips about greninja, I'm more than willing to help!