Advice for a (potentially former) Greninja main (question about neutral game)

[Nintendicted]

So I've been maining Greninja since day one, and recently I've been feeling like he doesn't fit for me. I mean I love playing as him, but I just can't seem to get any results with him, and it's been really disheartening. The thing is, I don't just want to drop him since I've been working so much and so long with him and I don't want it all to go to waste. Is there anything I could do? Maybe stuff to work on to improve, and if so, what would it be? Or should I just drop him in favor of my better characters? Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Snackss]

That depends on what other characters you play and how you feel like Greninja is lacking.

 

[Nintendicted]

That depends on what other characters you play and how you feel like Greninja is lacking.

I feel like he's lacking in the neutral mainly and I like Ness and Falco a lot.

 

[momochuu]

play someone else then. he's not for everyone.

 

[Nintendicted]

I don't just want to drop him though. I have a ton of fun with him, I just can't seem to get results. I guess this thread is more of a question about neutral game now that I think about it. What do you guys do in the neutral? I think I know what to do but I just can't seem to implement it at the right times.

 

[Snackss]

Throw shurikens to knock people off-balance. Be patient and don't rush in unless you're in dash grab distance or they've been knocked into the air by a forward air or shuriken. Down throw sets up for a neutral air mixup if they don't jump, and if they do jump then you can go for up air or back air. Greninja can't set up approaches or approach with aerials, but he can pretty much move anywhere he wants in neutral until someone makes a mistake. Basically want to harass with shurikens while moving around and looking for dash grab opportunities. Forward air is another one of Greninja's main tools in neutral, and it's safer than ever on block since the last patch. You can run up, short hop straight up and fast fall forward air.

 

[Nintendicted]

I've heard that short hop nair is really good in neutral. Is that true or is it more situational/requires a setup? If so, what are some good setups into it? Thank you for the information by the way.

 

[Snackss]

I've heard that short hop nair is really good in neutral. Is that true or is it more situational/requires a setup? If so, what are some good setups into it? Thank you for the information by the way.

It's safer as of the current patch, but you shouldn't be throwing it out constantly. Properly spacing with forward air is probably more important. But getting setups off of neutral air is still a really good source of damage for Greninja. There's the down throw setup I already mentioned, and it's a decent airdodge punish due to the startup lag and wide hitbox (just don't do it off-stage). It's good for punishing approaches because your opponent moving forward makes it much easier to crossup. Greninja's mobility also helps in mixing people up and getting them to airdodge into the ground, where neutral air is a good punish and combos into forward smash, up smash, or forward air depending on the percent and whether the sweetspot or sourspot hits.

 

[Nintendicted]

Thank you for all the help you've given me. I'll try to implement these more into my neutral play. One last question. Is hydro pump as good as people say for moving around and in and out of baits in neutral?

 

[bc1910]

Hydro Pump is an extremely underrated, underdeveloped move in general. It's not good for moving around in the same way as Quick Attack, but it's essentially free damage and is a great way to get out of disadvantage. It's not as good as Bouncing Fish, Flip Jump, Quick Attack or a frame 3 aerial, but it's probably the next level down from them in terms of escaping bad situations. Slow-ish to start but really not that punishable once you get moving.

 

[Nintendicted]

Thank you for all the help guys, I'll try to use these more in my Greninja play. Again, thanks so much for the support and information. I'm definitely staying on this board.

 

[Lemonade Candy]

I love when c stick gives you nair. Ways to use and not use hydro pump
Helps to just play around with it.

 

[GooberGaming]

Thank you for all the help you've given me. I'll try to implement these more into my neutral play. One last question. Is hydro pump as good as people say for moving around and in and out of baits in neutral?

Hydro Pump is great once you get your head around using it.

Defensively, I'll use it to mix up my landings. When I'm off stage, it's great to use it to go above and around an edge guard instead of going straight to the ledge. When your falling from above, it's a great at changing the direction in which you are falling towards. You can use it to move yourself to the ledge when you are falling from above the stage.

Offensively, it's great to use to mess up landings, and play mind games when approaching. I've gotten random gimps by hydro pumping someone off stage when I ran towards my opponent and retreated with hydro pumped.