Advanced Techniques, Who needs em? oh..YOU!?

[masterspeaks]

well sir, you completely missed another point that this thread was trying to make. This is that BRAWL has added a ton of other techniques to help expand upon mindgames. I listed them in my first post, had you actually read it, you may have noticed.

I read your previous thread and disregarded it as the nonsense you were spewing.

Brawl opens up many new oppurtunties with the blast back to 64. More aerials, faster hits, more manuevability in the air, crawling, footstool jumping. We might (might!!!!!) not have as many advanced techniques (or the same old ones), but we have many new normal techniques, which stretches the horizon further than melee ever could.

There were several things I found wrong in your post. Aside from the obvious hypocrisy of you telling everyone not to form opinions on how Brawl will play. An increase or decrease in the game's speed is not an advanced technique. Neither is footstool jumping, it is essentially a perfect spike. I never said there were no advanced techniques I said were losing a considerable amount that added depth and playability to Melee. However, the point I am trying to get across is that some people are displeased with Brawl's 'improvements' based on prior experience playing Melee, what exactly are you basing your opinion on? I may have to paraphrase this but weren't you saying that, "stop the *****ing, brawl is here, I will pwn you all... at a game I'm telling you to stop speculating about".

 

[fr0st2k]

I read your previous thread and disregarded it as the nonsense you were spewing.



There were several things I found wrong in your post. Aside from the obvious hypocrisy of you telling everyone not to form opinions on how Brawl will play. An increase or decrease in the game's speed is not an advanced technique. Neither is footstool jumping, it is essentially a perfect spike. I never said there were no advanced techniques I said were losing a considerable amount that added depth and playability to Melee. However, the point I am trying to get across is that some people are displeased with Brawl's 'improvements' based on prior experience playing Melee, what exactly are you basing your opinion on? I may have to paraphrase this but weren't you saying that, "stop the *****ing, brawl is here, I will pwn you all... at a game I'm telling you to stop speculating about".

first off...you said, that i said, something about the games speed being an advanced technique.

I never said any of those things i listed were advanced techniques. I said that they were new "techniques." (with a period!). Just as AdTechs add to the games mindgames, so do these average techniques.

No, i havent played the game. But i have seen many a hour of video of it. I certainly understand how it is played, I have ready many an article about it, and many a review. Everything i said concerning brawl in the first post were based on facts about the game.

And finally, no, you paraphrased me incorrectly, which isnt surprising, as you have missed every single one of my points.

I'll paraphrase for you. Stop the *****ing, brawl is here, and im sorry that you have to leave melee behind, you can still play melee, but brawl isnt melee, and advanced techniques from melee have no place in brawl, and they will be replaced by new techniques, and eventually new advanced techniques, adding to the depth of the smash bros. genre, so its a shame that the majority of you spent too much time learning advanced techniques and not learning mindgames, because brawl is going to be focusing more on mindgames based around the core concepts of brawl, not advanced techniques.

something like that. I actually think it would be easier to understand by reading the whole thread.

*edit.

Also ... a member since sep2006, and 6 posts..and you wasted 2 on me? im honored

 

[Ojanya]

hey, send me a pm now, as soon as brawl comes out, ill play you. i gaurentee ill beat you. 100% gaurentee. why? because i know exactly what type of person you are. You're exactly as i described. the noob who practiced wavedashing for hours upon hours, but never bothered learning how to play the game.

*edit

also, i dont think you understood the reason for that description. A majority of people here believe being able to do advanced techniques makes them a better player. No! Many people believe that doing advanced techniques lets them do mindgames. No! Many people here also believe that not having the advanced techniques will subtract from the games competitive nature. No! People have such an ignorant idea of what mindgames are. Its whisper down the lane on this site.

The original people on this site came up with an advanced endgame to smash. The coined the terms. Then new players came, they saw videos, it inspired them. The ignorant fools that they were made them think, "hey, if i learn that, I can be good too." These ignorant fools learned it, and started to think THEY were new authorities. Then neared fools came, and these fools learned from the old fools, and the circle continued and continues to this day.

As i told you. You never learned to play the game, only how to copy someones playing style. Thats why i know i'll beat you.

It takes people more than an hour to get wavedashing right?


-Also, good players have both tech and mind games. People just think the game will slow down without as much tech. You sound like the kind of person who is just too ignorant to learn these things.

 

[Ojanya]

first off...you said, that i said, something about the games speed being an advanced technique.

I never said any of those things i listed were advanced techniques. I said that they were new "techniques." (with a period!). Just as AdTechs add to the games mindgames, so do these average techniques.

No, i havent played the game. But i have seen many a hour of video of it. I certainly understand how it is played, I have ready many an article about it, and many a review. Everything i said concerning brawl in the first post were based on facts about the game.

And finally, no, you paraphrased me incorrectly, which isnt surprising, as you have missed every single one of my points.

I'll paraphrase for you. Stop the *****ing, brawl is here, and im sorry that you have to leave melee behind, you can still play melee, but brawl isnt melee, and advanced techniques from melee have no place in brawl, and they will be replaced by new techniques, and eventually new advanced techniques, adding to the depth of the smash bros. genre, so its a shame that the majority of you spent too much time learning advanced techniques and not learning mindgames, because brawl is going to be focusing more on mindgames based around the core concepts of brawl, not advanced techniques.

something like that. I actually think it would be easier to understand by reading the whole thread.

*edit.


Also ... a member since sep2006, and 6 posts..and you wasted 2 on me? im honored

You complained about people acting like they've played the game for months didn't you? (I might be thinking of another thread, but I doubt it) How do you know what concepts the game will be based around if YOU haven't played it?

 

[Tajem]

All arguments aside, I think we all just need to accept that stuff is different. It'll be the exact same transition from 64 to Melee. Melee will fade and more stuff on Brawl will be dug up. Just be patient and let people experiment.




inb4flame

 

[Patooty]

There are a bunch of questions/requests which you leave unanswered. I shall re-post in hopes of getting a proper response the next time.

Yes. this was my point, which was overly exagerated by said comment. The complex button patterns i was referring to were advanced techniques. I was implying that learning advanced techniques is indeed, worhtless when talking about brawl. I was also implying, the time you took to master said techniques is also, now worthless, when talking about brawl.

Which advanced techniques are complex button patterns? You're consistently being extremely vague as to make it harder for people to present evidence against you. Learning advanced techniques in MELEE is indeed worthless when talking about BRAWL. but why don't you stop being vague and implying things and just say what you wanna say. It's easy to go back on anything you say and say "oh well.. i was implying etc.." It didn't seem like you were implying what you say you were. It seems more like you were saying that people who used advanced techniques never got better at smash (and smash was ONLY melee at the time) because of it.

See above answer. This is a brawl discussion forum. I was implying that we don't need to hear about the advanced techniques from melee, as they have no bearing in brawl.

Again with the "implying"s. This would make for the 2nd time in which you imply things that were extremely unclear as to what your intent was because of what you say you were implying quite clearly contradicts what is extracted from your original posts. The overall feel from your original posts is that people were wasting all their time learning advanced techniques. Now you're switching over to saying it was useless BECAUSE now we have Brawl. Does that mean that any AT's that come up for Brawl are useless because there's going to be another smash anyways? That's a weak argument. People play for the moment. People practiced melee to be good at melee, it wasn't a waste of time.

I cannot refute that argument. But you dont win, you just failed with your example.

Refute this argument.

Person A = Good mind games, average advanced techniques
Person B = poor mindgames, great advanced techniques

Person A would have equal or better chance at beating Person B

This is my argument. Your example swings and misses

You said you cannot refute my argument, and yet it misses and I failed? Please clarify as to how this makes sense.

Now, your example is the one that swings and misses. I can stop there and be very vague, but I shall clarify it for you without you having to ask for clarification. In your example, between the 2 different people, you change two variables at a time, which under any type of scrutiny would make it invalid. It is now impossible to tell what change resulted in which results. My guess is that your point is that mindgames > techskill. Which actually very few people will disagree with. However your point closer to the beginning of the thread seem to indicate that you feel that techskill is worthless. When you post, people must try to get something from your posts, if you don't want them to interpret your posts wrong, please stop being so vague.

Never said that, never implied it. What i did imply, was that a majority of people fall into the category of "Person B"

Here's what I said by the way-

"Are you saying that being able to move in any direction at any time does not add to mindgames? That being commited to a direction that you're running provides you with as many tools for mindgames as a person who can freely move around?"

You actually did imply this one Mr. Imply. Here are your own words

"Many people believe that doing advanced techniques lets them do mindgames. No!"

I'm losing?

Well, the losing side is generally the side with less supporters. Shall I tally the numbers for you or can you count?

Lets take your example and flow with it. Do people go to school? Yes, they do. Do they go straight to college or straight into the workplace? Does a 12 year watch a medical show on TV and go to the hospital the next day to operate on someone? No. As you said yourself, we go to school. We learn first. We don't just jump into things. That was what was meant by my comment. And it would seem you agree.

My example was meant to mock your example. You said that when people learn from others (in regards to smash) they're imitative copycats. I'm applying the same to school. You're saying that school is good, which contradicts your point that people learning from others are imitative copycats.

Again, i was talking about how focusing solely on advanced techniques =/= mindgames.
Advanced techniques falls under Mindgames. We take away mindgames, we no longer have smash. We take away advanced techniques, we still have mindgames, thus we still have Smash.

Your stance was not, and is not clear. Please provide your stance in a statement so that I may quote all the things you've said that contradict it and have you not respond with "well, I was implying...".

We've expanded on this, you said you were rereading the posts, hopefully you were filled in.

In case you've forgotten what this was about..

i know ill beat him because i know i dont need hours of practice at the game to get good at it. I believe that i know the fundamentals of smash, and video games in general, better than NES Noob, and thus, I'll learn brawl faster, and be better than him at it.

You don't need HOURS of practice at a game to be good at it? So what do you need then, minutes? Boy the games you've been playing must be shallow as hell. I sure hope that Brawl isn't taken to its meta game in minutes.

I actually don't remember you addressing this issue? Where in this thread have you retorted against the fact that it doesn't take your hours(plural, IMPLYING one or less hours) to get good at a game?

 

[veil222]

This thread is a clone, and not the luigi kind either.

 

[Sky_Maro]

I don't use the advance techniques. I like to Brawl the old fashion way.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Give me a break. This thread is a ridiculous attempt to get people angry and start debates. Not cool.