Advanced Tactic: Z-tossing

[Zjiin]

I always play around with a bunch of different IC desynchs and once in a while i'll find one that has practical use in actual gameplay. It's nothing awesome but i enjoy using it, so check it out.

Z-Tossing

 

[pockyD]

this is pretty much a more specific (in performance) but more general (in use) version of the edge CG

 

[dj asakura]

yea, i remember this being brought up awhile back. the difference was it was a pseudo-infinite as long as you were only the edge. but the timing and placement was a little to strict.

but it seemed like nana was throwing forward all the time. (i may have just missed it cause i'm so tired) and if thats the case, couldnt you run forward with popo and regrab? i'll try it a little tonight before i sleep but if thats possible there could be some fun uses.

otherwise, still a cool and fun find/refind

 

[Binx]

looks fun but it doesnt seem to do as much damage as dthrow to usmash/fsmash. If nana always threw forward then you could take turns grabbing to the edge and do infinite recatchs, right?

 

[Zjiin]

looks fun but it doesnt seem to do as much damage as dthrow to usmash/fsmash. If nana always threw forward then you could take turns grabbing to the edge and do infinite recatchs, right?

Running up past nana is hard to do without having her throw forward, but possible. You can also have nana throw different directions, which is hard also. I plan on making a follow-up video showing how to control nana a little better.

 

[dj asakura]

well, if your on the edge nana ALWAYS throws forward which means you have a possible infinite but the timing is pretty strict.

same with this i found out. after trying it on marth for awhile at low percents i only got maybe 1 out of 10 or so.

it's got some possible uses but really only if you can regrab with popo after nana throws. at that point you get a little bit of a "wtf?" moment from the opponent and you can do normal grab combo after

 

[Zjiin]

it's got some possible uses but really only if you can regrab with popo after nana throws. at that point you get a little bit of a "wtf?" moment from the opponent and you can do normal grab combo after

Yeah, the only reason i use it is to get them to the edge faster. It's good for cheap-outs because they usually use up their second jump between grabs if they are jammin on it. (which if they hate ICs, they will be)

 

[pockyD]

you realize that if you grab them they get their double jump back

 

[Zjiin]

you realize that if you grab them they get their double jump back

Not if you grab them in air, which is what you are doing here.

My roomate use to use play as falcon, and as a huge mindgame, he would would just grab people who are trying to grab the edge. He wouldnt throw them, he would just hold them until they got out, where they would start falling. Everyone thought they would have a jump, but if you never touch the ground, you never get it back, even in a ground based grab. Until we got used to it, by the time we used out up+b it was too late.

 

[pockyD]

you are so very wrong about this

i'm not going to bother explaining (since there's not really anything to explain, just that they DO get it back), just go to training and try it

 

[Overswarm]

Not if you grab them in air, which is what you are doing here.

My roomate use to use play as falcon, and as a huge mindgame, he would would just grab people who are trying to grab the edge. He wouldnt throw them, he would just hold them until they got out, where they would start falling. Everyone thought they would have a jump, but if you never touch the ground, you never get it back, even in a ground based grab. Until we got used to it, by the time we used out up+b it was too late.

This is false. Being grabbed gives you your double jump back.

Also, you can just hold towards the edge to grab it immediately out of break out.

What more than likely happened is they tried to break out and were holding up on the joystick and perhaps that counted as their double jump?

 

[pockyD]

just imagine how much worse yoshi would be if that were true o_o

 

[Zjiin]

Perhaps i was being too general. Yes you get a jump back, if it is on the middle of the stage, but this is more of a off the edge thing to do, in which you do not get your jump back when getting grabbed. I will make an AR video showing that the act of the grab does not give you your jump.

 

[pockyD]

don't worry about the video, just explain why where you are on the stage would affect whether you get a jump back

 

[Zjiin]

don't worry about the video, just explain why where you are on the stage would affect whether you get a jump back

Because being on the ledge help you get a better handle of what nana does, as most people who have seen something like this before already know. When you are grabbed on the ledge it doesn't register a land since you're not on land. You said getting grabbed gives you a jump back. That's wrong.

 

[Zjiin]

Here ya go.

one and two jump grabbing

Try it for yourself. Getting grabbed does NOT mean you are getting your jump back.

 

[Overswarm]

Ah.

Getting thrown gives you your jump back.

Getting grabbed anywhere other than the ledge gives you your jump back.

Neat little tidbit, but if they are DIing towards the edge it is an auto grab, and really could only kill them if they are holding away/down and have slow reaction speed. Not the most useful thing in the world, but still neat.

 

[Zjiin]

Ah.

Getting thrown gives you your jump back.

Getting grabbed anywhere other than the ledge gives you your jump back.

Neat little tidbit, but if they are DIing towards the edge it is an auto grab, and really could only kill them if they are holding away/down and have slow reaction speed. Not the most useful thing in the world, but still neat.

Agreed, if you are DI'ing towards the edge you get an auto catch. This was just to prove that grabbing is not guaranteeing another jump.

 

[pockyD]

interesting, i guess

never realized it because there's no real reason to let people fall out of your grab when you can throw them instead

important question here being if you smash them out of your grab (ICs only) do they get their jump back?

 

[Zjiin]

important question here being if you smash them out of your grab (ICs only) do they get their jump back?

Heh Touche', unless you regrab them with popo, there is no way to stop nana from throwing them. Exploiting the jump system in this situation might be more trouble than it's worth.

 

[pockyD]

well i was thinking of it independently of this z-grab thing

like if you somehow grab them out of their dj with popo anywhere on the stage and then charge a smash with nana (ESPECIALLY on yoshi, ness, etc) it could have great effects

 

[cloudz]

hey zjiin


do you think you could make a video Of that quad ice block thing?


It used to be discussed but died down..and i still cant figure out the timing and how to do it

 

[Binx]

Quad ice block? how... Also as for the smash a smash wont actually knock them out of your grab unless you throw them I dont think, if you watch avalanche it shows nana smash mewtwo and he doesnt fly, if you timed it right with nana though you might be able to smash without them touching the ground at the edge, would be tough though.

 

[Zjiin]

hey zjiin


do you think you could make a video Of that quad ice block thing?


It used to be discussed but died down..and i still cant figure out the timing and how to do it

Quad ice blocks

 

[Silent Wolf]

I saw Wobbles chain this on my friend at OC3.

 

[Pasqual]

Quad ice block? how... Also as for the smash a smash wont actually knock them out of your grab unless you throw them I dont think, if you watch avalanche it shows nana smash mewtwo and he doesnt fly, if you timed it right with nana though you might be able to smash without them touching the ground at the edge, would be tough though.

You can Nana smash someone out of a grab without throwing them. Try it on a standing opponent with a charged fsmash or something.

Unrelated: It is possible, however, to hit an opponent being grabbed by someone else (re: not one of your ICs) with dsmash without knocking them out of it. Unless the few times I've done this were phantoms or something. I don't know what the hitboxes are like on the dsmash so I can't say for sure either way.

Nice work on the vid, Zjiin. I'll add this to my game as a surprise trick and an excuse for if I miss a JC.

 

[Smasher89]

MIgh work for mindgames messing up the opponents DI, and would be possible to do infinite, have experimented some with it, but it was some time ago, will try to remember doing it more, since it´s kinda cool XD

 

[cloudz]

ahh thank you man...you're the best

 

[Binx]

Used this (the grab drop) in a friendly yesterday LOL he had no idea what hit him.

 

[Zjiin]

Used this (the grab drop) in a friendly yesterday LOL he had no idea what hit him.

lmao, if they dont expect it, it's like a sure kill.

 

[Syko_Lemming]

Z-tossing is fun, but I don't think it should be considered an "advanced technique". I figured out how to do this before I even knew about WD. It's not that hard to do.

HOw about "Interesting Technique"?

btw, is it possible to nana chain grab?
IE: nana grabs, down throws and you SHFFL D-air, and so on...

 

[Binx]

Its possible but nana throws randomly so its unlikely you would get more than a hit.