Advanced Play

[Kami-V]

Ok now before you go on, this is not an "oh ma gawd wavedashing iz so uselss i am bttr and dont need to uz it", or anything like it post.

Now, I'm a fairly decent smash player, though I don't post much here I'm doing pretty well for how long I've been involved, which would be some 6-8 months.

My older brother and his friends do not play smash competatively, and they find high level play ridiculous. He always talks of how wavedashing, any sort of 'canceling' (for example, missle canceling with samus), etc. anything thats not normal in the game, is complete and total hacks. Its nothing short of cheating in his eyes. I've even shown him how to do such things, but he refuses to use them.

Now, I really don't care what he says, becuase I'm the one that plays competatively, and I thrash him every time we play. But, it bothers me how he always claims wavedashing and any other exploit is cheating... I mean yeah, thats what exploits are, but is there anyway I can really justify it? Or whenever he says that, should I just reply "yeah, it is, now lern2play"?

Thoughts?

 

[Red Exodus]

Stop playing with him, it'll only get worse unless he changes, tell him to accept it, learn how to do it, or don't play at all, or at least shut up about it. I have this problem with my friends and using the C-stick, it's so annoying.

 

[petre]

well, when youre playing competetively, youre playing to win. im assuming your brother is the kind that just likes to play for fun, 'i dont care who wins, i just want that pokeball' type of thing. as long as he doesnt really care about winning competitively, he's not going to want to learn anything new.

when you show him how to do something that completely ***** him, you should also try suggesting ways he could actually get around it, since the reason many think those things are cheap is because they dont see a way to counter it. ex. if you show him how to missile cancel, remind him he can shield then grab if you run in for an attack or he can jump over the missile if youre far away. also point out instances where a tech could have helped him, something like: you land by him with a laggy move, and he runs up to you and smashes, but your shield comes out before his attack; however, had he wavesmashed, it would have come out while you were still in lag...that sort of thing.

if all else fails, get an AR, and show him REAL hacks. then go back to normal play, and show him that its not as cheap as he thinks.

 

[pdk]

the latter's pretty much all you got

or you could tell him that he spends too much time on /v/ (the folks there are almost as bad), whichever works

 

[Reese]

The reason they are calling you a cheater is because you are beating them. There is nothing you can really say to them except what you have been saying- 'yeah, it is, now lern2play'.

Wavedashing and any other advanced move is not cheating. Is does not increase the odds that you will beat your older brother, or their friends. Wavedash is only as good as the person who uses it, just like any other technique, like rolling for example.

If thrashing them in melee does not change there viewpoint, I can't think of anything that will change their view. Sorry to say it but, your brother, and his friends are scrubs.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

Silvershadow made a hilarious vid for people who called advanced techniques hacks. I don't remember what it was called though. Anyone remember? It's the perfect video for this guy's brother.

 

[petre]

you mean this one?

that vid still makes me laugh...

 

[Kami-V]

I like all of your responses, especially petre's, and on that note:

One of my bro's friends loves smash, almost as much as I do, and is not half bad considering his lack of anything advanced (his length of 'advanced' techniques goes up to shffl'ing, less the L-cancel, and thats it), and he wants to become better, and strives to beat me. And infact, I would like to see him actually beat me once or twice, I love to see smashers get better, and that would also give me more people to play with.

But, like I had stated before, he thinks wavedashing is cheats. (Note when I say wavedashing, I also mean to include other 'non' normal techniques). So, is there any way I could show him its not, or if it is, that its ok? I like the idea of this video TheCatPhysician talked about.

Edit: petre posted the video while I was posting

Edit 2: omg thats the funniest thing I've seen, I'm still laughing.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Check sirlin.net, there is an article called: playing to win.

Quick summation: Your brother is a scrub. He is the type of person who would whine if you brought a gun to a knife fight. In a battle of life or death, you use everything you have available. When you are playing to win, the same rule applies.

That being said, designers intent isn't a factor in whether or not something is legitimate.