Advanced Options Samus Questions

[Outthere]

Hello Samus players! Just went to my first P:M tournament today, and did pretty damn well. Out of around 30 people, I got 13th. This is surprising because I'd only really played computers up to this point, less that 10 matches against human players up to today(with my Samus, that is). However, I've watched a bunch of how to plays and mastered most of the basic techniques, like platform missile canceling, SWD, and Samus's bread-and-butter combo game. I also come from Melee where I'm a Falco main, if that helps.

Anyway, I came back from the tournament brimming with questions. I'd like full and complete answers to these as much as possible, as I really want to improve my Samus game to the next level.

1) What are ALL of Samus's options when recovering from the ledge? And what's the best time to use each? I regularly use L-canceled fair from ledge to dsmash, jab, or ftilt, depending on the enemy's distance from the ledge and percent. This works alright but can be shieldgrabbed fairly easy. I also use wavedash on to dmash/fsmash/dash attack. Those are the two I use most often, but I also try for some mixups with ledgejumps -> nair or ledgejump -> airdodge into a platform/towards the center of the stage, and sometimes missile on to the stage if the enemy is far away. The most trouble I had was when playing a character like Marth: If I wavelanded on he'd fmash, if I ledgejump he uptilts/up airs, and he'd shield missiles and get a free shieldgrab. So again, am I missing any important ones? And whats the best situation to use each?

2) What are the best situations to use Samus's Charge Shot? Are there any particular combos or grabs that lead into it? During the tournament I entirely stayed away from the Charge Shot, which I think hindered my play. Obviously you can charge it after a kill or when the enemy's plenty far away, but what are the best situations to use the charge?

3) How do you deal with projectile spam? In particular Link. I played a Link in the tournament and had a very difficult time countering his projectiles, he'd always throw several bombs and then a boomerang, after which he'd grab.(much like Samus, actually) Usually you'd have to jump to avoid the grab, but he just as easily start comboing me in the air. I tried pushing him away with zairs, but it didn't deter him as much as I'd hoped.

4) What are the most effective ways to edgeguard? I usually stay on the stage and try to land a fmash, ftilt, or dmash if they go for the ground, or nair or uair if they jump upward. If they were high up and I thought I could out-priority them, I'd jump off with a nair and try and him them off(or dair, if I'm feeling lucky). I'd imagine this could also work with ice fair.

5) Uses of jab? Okay right here I feel like a noob. I honestly don't know all the uses of jab, other than pushing your enemy away from you faster than ftilt. Reading other threads and watching youtube matches of Plup, it seems like a good move to use quite often, but how exactly?

6) Uses of Morph Ball Crawl? Again, I feel there's some use for this but haven't found it yet. I know it goes under a lot of attacks(projectiles in particular), but what's the best use? Also, if you do get a Crawl attack to hit, what followups are good, and in which situations should you use them?

Again I'd like as complete of answers as you can provide. Like I said I can do most of or all of the tech required for Samus, but just want to take my game to the next level. Thanks in advance!

 

[pizzacato]

I can enlighten on the charge shot option.
If you land a grab, down throw can lead strongly into a charge shot. You have to judge whether to shoot immediately or wait for your tech, (either a missed tech, roll in, roll away, or tech in place) and adjust accordingly. For the rolling in, you can wave dash back and probably catch them with a charge shot. I'll usually Fsmash or d-tilt if they roll in, though.

 

[Litt]

1) What are ALL of Samus's options when recovering from the ledge? And what's the best time to use each? Rising fair, AI --> ftilt or fsmash, get up attack, charge shot, rising grapple to hit opponent with zair.


2) What are the best situations to use Samus's Charge Shot? Depends on the player, can hold onto it for fear, or read techs, down throw doesnt really combo into charge shot anymore.

3) How do you deal with projectile spam? Outspam the other player with missiles, get good at catching or powershielding their projectiles, or use the crawl to avoid them

4) What are the most effective ways to edgeguard? Bair, dair, nair off stage


5) Uses of jab? Go to melee forum for samus and read up on jab cancels, I made a thread about it a while back

6) Uses of Morph Ball Crawl? Follow ups, jab pressure, fire upsmash on sheild behind them, ftilt

 

[ES Lite]

1.)
-Raising fair to dsmash is good to turn tables, but like you've noted, you can get shield grabbed.
-Raising dair is a good mixup at low percentages
-Samus has an excellent ledge hop wave land. I usually shield afterwards so I can do something out of shield
-Airdodge to zair is good considering zairs priority, make sure you don't get caped
-insta-wall jump to bair is also pretty good
2.) There are some grabs that lead up to a charge shot on the heavier side of the cast. Besides that, I think charge shot is for dem mind games.
3.) zair goes thru all projectiles. Learn to spam this whenever they think it's okay to take the camping crown from Samus.
4.) nair and bair are her only real aerials that have priority worth putting up outside the stage. Dair if you're feeling frisky.
5.) jab canceling is always good to do up close. The "shell shock" people get from a couple of those make space for grabs and smashes.
6.) I'm not a fan of morph ball, but it definitely helps zone for a dtilt or dsmash. Just look how small she is.

 

[Litt]

1.)
-Raising fair to dsmash is good to turn tables, but like you've noted, you can get shield grabbed.
-Raising dair is a good mixup at low percentages
-Samus has an excellent ledge hop wave land. I usually shield afterwards so I can do something out of shield
-Airdodge to zair is good considering zairs priority, make sure you don't get caped
-insta-wall jump to bair is also pretty good
2.) There are some grabs that lead up to a charge shot on the heavier side of the cast. Besides that, I think charge shot is for dem mind games.
3.) zair goes thru all projectiles. Learn to spam this whenever they think it's okay to take the camping crown from Samus.
4.) nair and bair are her only real aerials that have priority worth putting up outside the stage. Dair if you're feeling frisky.
5.) jab canceling is always good to do up close. The "shell shock" people get from a couple of those make space for grabs and smashes.
6.) I'm not a fan of morph ball, but it definitely helps zone for a dtilt or dsmash. Just look how small she is.

Rising* not raising, and if you fast fall the rising fair you can l cancel and immediatly go into an up b before you get grabbed, zair can't go through all projectiles (fox's laser, they go through each other, but it does clank most others then continue past them like marios fire balls)

 

[ES Lite]

Oh yeah, fox lasers can go past zair. There are other exceptions I'm sure but for the majority zair wins. Plus zair is an exceptional punishing tool

 

[Litt]

^ Have to 100% disagree with you there, I would never punish someone with a zair... you can't follow it up, and only if you space it perfectly would you get a whopping 7%.... Its an exceptional ZONING tool to help force your opponent to respect your spacing and character.

 

[ES Lite]

Well I guess punishing is based around your playstyle. Zair's speed, along with its pushback, is good enough for me to punish with. I think of it more as, if I'm at a zair's distance away, I'm going to hit you with it, and theres nothing you can do that'll stop me from adding percentage and giving you a hit animation. At that distance there isn't a lot samus can do as fast. Speaking of which, zair is quick enough to "punish" people for jumping, furthermore, using their second jump to recover as well.
Works wonders on any spacy that'll try and illusion to the stage by using their second jump.

 

[pizzacato]

I punish Dash dancing all the time with Zair.

 

[Litt]

Well I guess punishing is based around your playstyle. Zair's speed, along with its pushback, is good enough for me to punish with. I think of it more as, if I'm at a zair's distance away, I'm going to hit you with it, and theres nothing you can do that'll stop me from adding percentage and giving you a hit animation. At that distance there isn't a lot samus can do as fast. Speaking of which, zair is quick enough to "punish" people for jumping, furthermore, using their second jump to recover as well.
Works wonders on any spacy that'll try and illusion to the stage by using their second jump.

You obviously have no conception of what a punish is... when you punish someone for something, its not tacking on percent, its for making a miscalculation or technical error that leads into an attack of your own that combos and possibly into tech chases, what you claim to be a punish, is just as much of a punish as someone not powersheild or just regularly sheilding fox/falco's laser... you are doing something called an attack... and I am sorry if this comes off condescending, but you really need to learn your terminology.

 

[ES Lite]

By your definition, I can ensure you I punish a whole lot
But I can't really back that up, guess I'm just gonna have to wait for vids to come out.

 

[Litt]

Not my definition....

 

[CyberMario]

2) What are the best situations to use Samus's Charge Shot? Are there any particular combos or grabs that lead into it?

3) How do you deal with projectile spam?

4) What are the most effective ways to edgeguard?

6) Uses of Morph Ball Crawl?

2. If you look at the damage charts, you can see that the charge shot is easily the strongest move Samus has. Only a fully charged fire fsmash or dsmash can compare. As such, it's a good idea to save your shot as a killing move. You must remember to READ READ READ your opponents. And you must also consider how they are reading you. If the damage is over 80% percent, then fire it when you know for sure you'll hit. For most newcomers playing against PM Samus, they'll almost never see it coming. (I've used it to stage spike an opponent on last stock when I predicted they were going to pursuit after me when pushed off stage.) It was raining salt the rest of the day.

Another time to use your charge shot is if you are at dieing percent. Nothing is worse than dying with a fully charged shot. (I think a buff is needed for her to keep her shot like Ivysaur, because Ivysaur is broken tier hyperbeam shot that keeps it's charge after death)

3. The best advice I can give you zair, power shield, jab cancel, boost ball.

Make it work for you, not for them.

4. It highly highly depends on the MU. It also varies from playstyle to playstyle. I prefer to charge my shot, spam a few missiles, and see how they approach. If from above, ice fair. uair, or Upb usually does the trick; though ice fair is usually the most beneficial. If from below, it's almost always safe to be facing away out of ledge attack range and use dsmash.

If you want to play it risky and skillful, it's rewarding to put bombs falling from the ledge for characters that have to recover straight up (Ie Marth, Luigi) to then set them up with a good bair/ice fair.

6. Decent approach, great way to stall, good for poking at mind games. I'm not good enough to combo with boost ball, but there certainly are some set ups I've seen in videos and worked out in Training mode. Most basic is boost with uptilt.

This is all I know.

 

[GeZ]

In regards to punishing, the disagreement is more of a matter of what punishing means in fighting games rather than what it means literally. While both of your guys phrasing of it fits, KLit's is a bit more conventional as to what punishing means in smash. I feel that what .Lite was describing was more pinging/ poking, but if you're speaking purely literally, you could say that they are both ways of punishing your opponent.

 

[Litt]

In regards to punishing, the disagreement is more of a matter of what punishing means in fighting games rather than what it means literally. While both of your guys phrasing of it fits, KLit's is a bit more conventional as to what punishing means in smash. I feel that what .Lite was describing was more pinging/ poking, but if you're speaking purely literally, you could say that they are both ways of punishing your opponent.

No one is speaking literally, GeZ, we all understand that, .Lite just was confused about the term and what it meant relative to smash

 

[pizzacato]

[Unrelated to topic] I was taught and made to realize that punishing an opponent in smash is more along the lines of: if you're not playing the matchup correctly, being predictable, missed executions, and most importantly... them being at the wrong place at the right time. Poking and tacking on percent is a form of punishing you for being in-range, and not spacing well. Just Don't Get Hit.

[Related to topic]
I've been consistent guaranteeing with boostball to up-smash on Bowser. I haven't tried it on any other heavies, but yeah.

 

[Litt]

Characters that are around samus's height or taller will normally get shield poked by the up smash, this holds true in melee, but I am not 100% about PM, this could be why it has been effective against bowser. Or that the bower you have been playing was not using this out of shield options, like Up B OoS or wavedash back OoS in order to not get hit by your follow up attack

 

[Outthere]

Thank you guys for all the replies, especially about uses of boost ball and zair. Will try out boost ball to up tilt and up smash, but I only see that as a situational move rather than a bread-and-butter one.

I'm starting to use zair more often and more effectively. It throws people off because they don't expect it and sometimes you can get a lucky dash attack off of it or wavedash to smash attack. Zair from ledge is alright but not as effective as I'd hoped, but then again I still need to practice it more.

KLit: Very eager to try out the fair -> L-cancel -> up b from ledge. If this is ungrabbable, then this was exactly what I needed!

Cybermario: YES I need to use charge shot more! I think it's exactly what I need to take my game to the next level. That, and up b OoS to help against quick and personal characters, like Fox. I will definitely take what you said into consideration.

 

[Litt]

Thank you guys for all the replies, especially about uses of boost ball and zair. Will try out boost ball to up tilt and up smash, but I only see that as a situational move rather than a bread-and-butter one.

I'm starting to use zair more often and more effectively. It throws people off because they don't expect it and sometimes you can get a lucky dash attack off of it or wavedash to smash attack. Zair from ledge is alright but not as effective as I'd hoped, but then again I still need to practice it more.

KLit: Very eager to try out the fair -> L-cancel -> up b from ledge. If this is ungrabbable, then this was exactly what I needed!

Cybermario: YES I need to use charge shot more! I think it's exactly what I need to take my game to the next level. That, and up b OoS to help against quick and personal characters, like Fox. I will definitely take what you said into consideration.

You need to fast fall the fair once onto the stage into l cancled then up b

 

[Kati]

I find myself consistently having to screw attack after a boost ball attack. It's pretty reliable, but I tend to land the boost ball at mid->high percents so I haven't been able to try the axe kick or up smash against a human yet.

 

[Litt]

I find myself consistently having to screw attack after a boost ball attack. It's pretty reliable, but I tend to land the boost ball at mid->high percents so I haven't been able to try the axe kick or up smash against a human yet.

That is a horrible option, because one, it leaves your defenseless if they shield your up B, if you do it more than once, they will expect it and punish you are for it. You are simply stating a move that you can do, (which anyone can and has figured out) and you have not even done it against other human players. You are not contributing here, rather just wasting space, trying asking other players what would be useful to do out of boost ball instead of just saying an option you use, that hasnt even been tested (which i can tell you is not a smart or good option).