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Adeleine, the Miracle Painter: Chasing her Dream of being a DLC (& Ribbon?)

Iko MattOrr

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OMG please tell me the Dream Friends will be playable... please!
And I hope it's a bit more balanced than the first game, because it was very unbalanced (yet still very fun).

If Dream Friends are in, it's an instant purchase for me.

Magolor, King Dedede and Metaknight are confirmed, they are in the game's icon.
Bandana is mentioned in the description; it says "familiar friends and foes", and since all the confirmed characters aren't much of foes anymore, I suspect that someone like Marx and Dark Meta will also be in. Let's hope for Adeleine! Also I hope her moveset will be updated and rebalanced because fairy dance spam should definitely not be possible (some new cool move wouldn't be that bad too but I'm fine with her current moveset too).
 
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Princess_Ashley

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Let's hope for Adeleine! Also I hope her moveset will be updated and rebalanced because fairy dance spam should definitely not be possible (some new cool move wouldn't be that bad too but I'm fine with her current moveset too).
I see no reason as to why Adeleine would be excluded, although I guess it's better to just wait and see. Really hoping for her too!
 

MintPepsi

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hml3EdmvAXo
Kirby Fighters 2 is out now. Announcement and release came out of nowhere as expected. Sadly it looks like Adeleine ain't part of the roster although we did get Artist Kirby. Meta Knight, Dedede, Bandana Dee, Magolor, and Gooey are the only Star Allies dream friends that are playable here. Hopefully the rest will be DLC but I doubt it.
 

Iko MattOrr

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I'm a bit disappointed that Adeleine is not in the game... though I can see why. The game is more or less an enhanced version of the 3DS one, it doesn't change much... they added the simplest characters to adapt, and kept the gimmicky ones out (Susie, 3 mages sisters, Adeleine, Marx, etc.). Anyway there's a small possibility that some characters are secret and can be unlocked later in the game... not counting on it too much but who knows.

Gooey's new artwork is awesome though.
 

Iko MattOrr

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The fact is that in order to make Adeleine work in this game, they should have redesigned her moveset a lot, and this game seems to be a very small project, it would have required more effort than what the budget likely would have allowed.

With the current moveset, you would have been unable to summon and keep a boss drawing, since one single hit would break it or interrupt the summon, and in a fighting game you are going to be hit multiple times per second, offcourse. In case you would succeed in summoning a boss, the amount of damage some of their attacks inflict would have been huge, and the hitboxes would have filled a big part of screen... basically Mage Sisters tier of damage.

What they should have done with her is a stage where she's in the background summoning hazards... like Rick/Kine/Coo and the mage sisters. But it's ok... maybe she will appear in another game; after all she is in Super Kirby Clash where some others such as Daroach and Marx are not; they will rotate the cast and Adeleine will get another chance, I'm sure.
 
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Among Waddle Dees

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I... don't like what I'm looking at with Kirby Fighters 2. The roster is underwhelming, and honestly, it seems a number of the other additions are substantially more repetitive than they should be. I don't even know if Adeleine got referenced in a rare Artist hat, and if not then that's an issue.

Now I'm having doubts on the way Kirby's being handled. I would like Adeleine to at least show up a little more than she has of late. Maybe not as a mainstay, but something to remind her fanbase she isn't being ignored like she was before. I don't know how much I can enjoy the franchise without that caveat.

Perhaps this means nothing for Smash, although maybe that isn't good either.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...blog_post_on_the_creation_of_kirby_fighters_2

Apparently, they had no communication problems.

I... don't like what I'm looking at with Kirby Fighters 2. The roster is underwhelming, and honestly, it seems a number of the other additions are substantially more repetitive than they should be. I don't even know if Adeleine got referenced in a rare Artist hat, and if not then that's an issue.

Now I'm having doubts on the way Kirby's being handled. I would like Adeleine to at least show up a little more than she has of late. Maybe not as a mainstay, but something to remind her fanbase she isn't being ignored like she was before. I don't know how much I can enjoy the franchise without that caveat.

Perhaps this means nothing for Smash, although maybe that isn't good either.
The way I see it, the less direct involvement Kumazaki has in a Kirby game, the more quality issues there are. Kirby Battle Royale also had this issue.

At the very least, she'll return for the next mainline entry and/or anniversary game.
 
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Iko MattOrr

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In my opinion Kirby Fighters 2 has much bigger problems than the lack of Adeleine (or any other Dream Friend that's not in).
The main problem is that 90% of the game is a big copy-paste and it costs $20. The Triple Deluxe version of the game may not have online play, but it's a perfectly enjoyable version and it's bundled with Triple Deluxe, why do I need to spend $20 to get the same minigame with just some more content? I get that online play is cool, but come on.

I mean, they doubled the amount of abilities, ok, but it still has mostly the same stages with a few additions, and the same game mechanics; it doesn't feel like a "2" but it feels like an enhanced port instead; like Super Kirby Clash but at least Super Kirby Clash is free(mium).

IMO while I'm sad that Adeleine is not in, I prefer Adeleine being missig from this small spin-off rather than missing from the next main game. There might be more small spin-offs in the future, they promised us "a lot of variety" and said to be interested in a non action spin-off (probably a puzzle game?), so there's still room for Adeleine to appear.

EDIT:
The way I see it, the less direct involvement Kumazaki has in a Kirby game, the more quality issues there are. Kirby Battle Royale also had this issue.
You can say anything about Battle Royale, I also didn't get it because I thought it had too few content for a stand alone game; though it had the gameplay completely redesigned from scratch specifically for that game. Fighters 2 copies gameplay and assets from the previous games like there is no tomorrow... All the abilities and "buddies" play exactly like they do in Star Allies, just watching the trailer I feel like I have already played the game even if I didn't. The biggest creative effort went into the Wrestler ability that's still partially based on existing moves anyway. I was excited that there was this new Kirby Fighters but when I saw the trailer I was disappointed in how it was still the same stuff as before. I know it's kinda cheap (meh), but I'm pretty sure that for $20 you can get some indie game with much more content and creativity.

EDIT2: reading this rant again, it sounds way more angry than it should... the game still looks good, and maybe if it gets in discount in the future I may even purchase it; I'm annoyed that it could have been way more ambitious, but it isn't... (IMO it's a huge missed opportunity, especially since they could have turned it into a full retail game if done right, but who knows, maybe the fact that Smash exists prevented Kirby Fighters from being a bigger thing?)
 
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Iko MattOrr

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When I play Star Allies, I record a lot of videos. Too bad that they are hard to share on forums... I converted one of them into GIF and uploaded it to imgur so I could embed it here, but it's still kinda heavy.


Poor Kawasaki...

This video shows how to optimize Adeleine's summons. Her summoning moves are slow, so you have to exploit the wait times. In this video, I used the time of the miniboss' entrance animation to summon an I^3 minion and Ice Dragon, then I literally stomped Chef Kawasaki the precise moment he became vulnerable. Usually, I summon bosses during a long fall, or when I have to wait for something to move before being able to progress. When summoning, it's better to do a small jump and start the summon animation in air, because when you do this, you can still move until you land, and you can save some time. The jump trick also works well with the basic paintbrush attack: if you jump high enough you will also be able to keep the run active and you don't have to tap the direction again (even if you attack backwards, tricky but possible). This trick is also useful in Kirby's Dream Land 3, since many attacks would stop you in place, but still allow you to move if you perform them in air.

Due to the RNG of the summons and the order of the bosses, if you want to be as fast as possible, often you have to think different strategies on the fly: that's why Adeleine is so fun to play as.

In the gif, Kawasaki is defeated very fastly thanks to a combined attack of Ice Dragon's breath and I^3 dropping on his head. Adeleine in Smash would keep this style of fighting: gain some time to summon stuff, summon some minions in strategic places, then attack in combination with the minions so that the enemy can't defend. Some characters in the roster already have some moves that can be used for similar strategies, but Adeleine would focus on this as the main element of her moveset (this is why I suggest the summoning minions to be her smash attacks instead of a special move).

It's nice how at the end of the clip, both Ice Dragon and I^3 stomp Kawasaki at the same time and land with perfect timing... it was unintentional but the result is awesome.

On my Switch there are a lot more Adeleine videos that I would like to share and discuss, I don't know if and when though, I don't want to make the thread too heavy and laggy.
 

Among Waddle Dees

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When I play Star Allies, I record a lot of videos. Too bad that they are hard to share on forums... I converted one of them into GIF and uploaded it to imgur so I could embed it here, but it's still kinda heavy.


Poor Kawasaki...

This video shows how to optimize Adeleine's summons. Her summoning moves are slow, so you have to exploit the wait times. In this video, I used the time of the miniboss' entrance animation to summon an I^3 minion and Ice Dragon, then I literally stomped Chef Kawasaki the precise moment he became vulnerable. Usually, I summon bosses during a long fall, or when I have to wait for something to move before being able to progress. When summoning, it's better to do a small jump and start the summon animation in air, because when you do this, you can still move until you land, and you can save some time. The jump trick also works well with the basic paintbrush attack: if you jump high enough you will also be able to keep the run active and you don't have to tap the direction again (even if you attack backwards, tricky but possible). This trick is also useful in Kirby's Dream Land 3, since many attacks would stop you in place, but still allow you to move if you perform them in air.

Due to the RNG of the summons and the order of the bosses, if you want to be as fast as possible, often you have to think different strategies on the fly: that's why Adeleine is so fun to play as.

In the gif, Kawasaki is defeated very fastly thanks to a combined attack of Ice Dragon's breath and I^3 dropping on his head. Adeleine in Smash would keep this style of fighting: gain some time to summon stuff, summon some minions in strategic places, then attack in combination with the minions so that the enemy can't defend. Some characters in the roster already have some moves that can be used for similar strategies, but Adeleine would focus on this as the main element of her moveset (this is why I suggest the summoning minions to be her smash attacks instead of a special move).

It's nice how at the end of the clip, both Ice Dragon and I^3 stomp Kawasaki at the same time and land with perfect timing... it was unintentional but the result is awesome.

On my Switch there are a lot more Adeleine videos that I would like to share and discuss, I don't know if and when though, I don't want to make the thread too heavy and laggy.
Nice work! I'll have to keep that in mind for my runs, I... have yet to beat Soul Melter EX because I'm trying to solo run it with Adeleine and failing. :p

I definitely think some original content will help this thread move. Should I try that too? I'm not the most original, but perhaps I could salvage a few things every now and then for the sake of it.
 

Iko MattOrr

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Nice work! I'll have to keep that in mind for my runs, I... have yet to beat Soul Melter EX because I'm trying to solo run it with Adeleine and failing. :p

I definitely think some original content will help this thread move. Should I try that too? I'm not the most original, but perhaps I could salvage a few things every now and then for the sake of it.
Definitely, I would like it.
About Soul Melter EX, keep trying, Adeleine is very powerful against those bosses, you just need to figure out the most efficient way to defeat them and do as little errors as possible... it's trial and error indeed.
 

Iko MattOrr

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So, we just got HAL's latest game.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...me_from_hal_laboratory_is_available_right_now

I'm actually interested in this one. Since it's a mobile game port (barring the new modes), it seems to be another low-budget project.
I noticed that too... it's probably a fun game, though I doubt Adeleine will appear in it.

BTW, I ripped another video from my Switch:


A small speedrun of a remade section of the factory level from Kirby 64. A lot harder than it looks because of the input lag and the horrible d-pad of the Switch Lite (it's close to impossible to input a direction without also unintentionally push up or down and activate the wrong move).

The flail is very useful to break walls of blocks, both star blocks and bomb blocks like in this case. There is a place in the game where a wall is made of strong blocks (indestructible) and only one of them is a bomb block, required to destroy all the wall: the flail works well in that section too, the hitbox of the attack comes slighty earlier than the collision box of the character, so the blocks will be destroyed before Adeleine bumps ino them, letting her run through the wall at regular speed.
It feels a bit like Wario in the Warioland games...
The flail run also has another useful property: if you fall from a big height while performing the move, you won't bounce on the gound like you usually would.
Speaking of bouncing, when you hit an enemy with the flail, you will bounce back a bit... it can be annoying for speedruns since it will make you lose time... but, there are some specific situations where it can be useful too: you can exploit the bounce to make a quick turnaround and then instatly run in the opposite direction. Due to the extremely simple and open level design of this game, it's very rare a place where it can be useful, but there are at least a couple. Regardless, for normal play, it's mostly a defensive move because it will protect you from many types of damage by making you bounce back instead.

Flail is a situational move but sometimes it makes the difference.


I think I will occasionally post some of those gifs if nobody disagrees.
 
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Morgana J. Cat

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Gotta say, it’s quite a relief Adeleine hasn’t been a Mii costume yet. We definitely need another Kirby character in the roster (same thing goes to Zelda), and to me, she and Ribbon are easily the best choices.

1604264390296.jpeg

Also I’m hoping they repeat the duo event tourney when they get in, cuz out of the blue I really can’t think of a more epic Nintendo duo/team that’s still not in Smash tbh.
 

Iko MattOrr

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Another gif

This is one of my favorites. From the same level as the one in my previous post.
There's not much to say aside of that I used the time I was stuck under the crushing wall to summon Waiu, and then rushed the final part of the section by using his teleport move.
When Waiu teleports, Adeleine disappears: her collision box also disappears, so she can't be hit and can also go through smaller spaces without dismounting Waiu.

Uh and I've got a strange feeling that we're going to see Adeleine again in a new game soon... don't ask me why, it's just a strange feeling without explanation, I hope that feeling is right.

EDIT: I forgot to say that Waiu's teleport automatically climbs 1-tile steps and slopes, but he will be dismounted if when the teleport ends, there's not enough space for the two to reappear.
 
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Iko MattOrr

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I decided to try Soul Melter EX again and managed to improve my old record by 30 seconds!

EDIT: [picture removed because I improved the record]

It took me some attempts to remember the attack patterns and the strategies, though at the end, I'm very proud of this record.
Probably there is still some margin for improvements, but you have to be lucky (because of the random summons) and know perfectly all the timing and hitboxes of everything, including the 3D boss which is for me the hardest part to speedrun.

Then I decided to search on Youtube if someone else did a better time than mine, and I did a shocking discovery:
Adeleine can be completely broken if you use a turbo controller: you can destroy the bosses by stunning them and dealing an insane amount of damage, in just a few seconds.

Look at those videos:

Time ago I saw a similar video about Plugg, but apparently Adeleine is even more broken, and I didn't know until today.

EDIT: Here we go. I didn't use the turbo controller glitch (I don't even own a turbo controller), though I noticed that in the last of the 3 videos I linked, the player does a trick with Ice Dragon: instead of holding down the attack button, they tap it several times. It indeed deals WAY MORE damage and makes the whole Soul Melter EX a complete joke!

record small.jpg


It can probably be improved but I don't care much for now, this is already an impressive score.
 
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Among Waddle Dees

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So, I found this recently:


I don't like the implications of the video's premise, but there is an interesting moveset to be found for the majority of the length. I would be quite content if this concept actually came to life, instead of remaining an impossibility, as advertised.
 

Among Waddle Dees

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Happy Holidays, everybody! The Kirby Twitter sent its regards earlier today with another great Tweet!

 

Iko MattOrr

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Happy Holidays, everybody! The Kirby Twitter sent its regards earlier today with another great Tweet!

That's nice!
BTW I noticed that they made her hair brown like in the DL3 design instead of the usual black or almost black they used in the later designs... They made her hair brown in a former artwork with all the drawings coming to life too, though her image was small and it was difficult to notice... I wonder if it's an actual change of design like when they changed Metaknight's eyes from white to yellow or if it's just random. I think brown fits better with the color scheme btw.

It seems Adeleine is also going to do a couple of cameos in the sequel of the "Find Kirby" book (it's a sort of "Where is Waldo" game but it's all about Kirby), that probably is going to remain a Japan exclusive thing sadly.

A night for Caroling.

I think I've seen some of that artist's works on Deviantart in the past, but I'm not sure it's the same artist.
 

Among Waddle Dees

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Oh hey! It happened again!


I was somewhat anticipating another art Tweet, but not one with Adeleine present. Kind of unusual to see her twice for the Holidays, but I'm not complaining.
 

Iko MattOrr

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So a new trailer of Bowser's Fury finally released, revealing more about what the game mode is about.
Despite being an extra mode of Mario "3D World", it feels more like a Mario 64/Sunshine/Odyssey type of game, and my first impression was that it looks way more fun than anything I've seen in Odyssey.

I'm not sure about the details, but it seems that during this adventure, Mario is supported by Bowser Jr, who floats around and helps... if it's a 2 Player exclusive thing or it's controlled by CPU (or both depending on if you have a second player or not) I don't know yet.



So the Kirby fans are constantly asking HAL to make a 3D Kirby game, and according to some datamine it seems they somehow succeded in convincing them, maybe. I think that if HAL has to make a 3D Kirby game, they should take inspiration from Bowser's fury... you play as Kirby, but there is a second character who supports him by drawing stuff on the walls with a paintbrush, and the drawings become real (items, other stuff) to help the player. Pretty interesting concept right?

Jokes aside, it might be a bit off topic but I'm pretty hyped for Bowser's Fury, I love every single thing I've seen so far, and I'm glad I didn't get 3D World on WiiU so I can finally get it for the first time now. I know it's likely going to be a small mode with one or two hours of gameplay at best, but it looks incredibly fun and well crafted; I wish a full game was made in that style (I know Odyssey exists, but it never really attracted me enough for some reason).
 
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Among Waddle Dees

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So a new trailer of Bowser's Fury finally released, revealing more about what the game mode is about.
Despite being an extra mode of Mario "3D World", it feels more like a Mario 64/Sunshine/Odyssey type of game, and my first impression was that it looks way more fun than anything I've seen in Odyssey.

I'm not sure about the details, but it seems that during this adventure, Mario is supported by Bowser Jr, who floats around and helps... if it's a 2 Player exclusive thing or it's controlled by CPU (or both depending on if you have a second player or not) I don't know yet.



So the Kirby fans are constantly asking HAL to make a 3D Kirby game, and according to some datamine it seems they somehow succeded in convincing them, maybe. I think that if HAL has to make a 3D Kirby game, they should take inspiration from Bowser's fury... you play as Kirby, but there is a second character who supports him by drawing stuff on the walls with a paintbrush, and the drawings become real (items, other stuff) to help the player. Pretty interesting concept right?

Jokes aside, it might be a bit off topic but I'm pretty hyped for Bowser's Fury, I love every single thing I've seen so far, and I'm glad I didn't get 3D World on WiiU so I can finally get it for the first time now. I know it's likely going to be a small mode with one or two hours of gameplay at best, but it looks incredibly fun and well crafted; I wish a full game was made in that style (I know Odyssey exists, but it never really attracted me enough for some reason).
Bowser Jr. assisting Mario against his dad is highly unusual, although I remember hearing he mainly tries to impress his dad, who is out of control here. Certainly it would be an interesting dynamic if that's why he's helping Mario in this instance.

It's a pity my pride will not let me enjoy this... Bowser's Fury looks great, but I'm not positive it's worth the hassle of rebuying 3D World.

Oh, and good to know I wasn't the first to notice the painter connection, Jr. even paints a Boomerang powerup for Mario to use in the trailer. I think there's a lot of potential for a similar painting helper to assist Kirby in an adventure by giving him items on the sidelines, although I kind of fear they may not resort to Adeleine for that kind of role. But stranger things have happened, so perhaps there's a chance?
 
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