About the villager's grab

[Everest]

Hi guys !

Just wanted to talk about the one thing that I really hate about the villager : his absolutely awful grab. As I think that the move is very funny looking (I mean come on, grabbing your ennemy with a net is just hilarious), I think that it is as well poorly designed and nearly unusable in most situations. In all honesty, I think this move may be one of the worst (if not simply the worst) grab of the game.

Let's begin with the pros :
-the Bthrow is a very decent killing move at high %
-you can grab from a bit further than Mario.

On the other hand, the cons :
-for a ranged grab, it really lacks range...
-hitting a grabbed ennemy is difficult given how slow the rhythm of the hits is.
-the move has a fairly long ending lag when you miss the target.
-it also has an extremely disturbing starting lag making the move pretty slow.

The first two cons can be a bit annoying, but nothing too serious. But the last two are the core of a very deeper problem that makes some matchups extremely tough against some characters.

Villager's grab is bad in most of common situations. That's okay, you can deal with it. But the real trouble is here : in fact the villager just can't shield grab. Or to be more precise : villager can't shield grab efficiently because the move is so slow to use that your ennemy will have the time to, roll away from you, hit you with a tilt, a jab, or even grab you back before your net has even arrived to the tip of his hair. Shield grabbing is NOT an option for the villager. And given how strong and useful is this mechanic in the game, I have the feeling that it will be a very big flaw, very hard to compensate, even for a skilled villager.

The only way I figured to use the villager's net efficiently is as a kill move when your ennemy just land in helpless state in the middle of the map. And even then they sometimes recover quickly enough to dodge it.

Am I missing something or completely wrong about this grab ? Or maybe are there any "secret techniques" to make this move more useful ?
What's your feeling about it ?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Shield grabbing is about the most reliable way to grab with Villager, though of course you can't be throwing it out on block every time. It's best after powershielding aerials, especially stuff with high shield hitlag like Ganondorf's Fair, Dair, Pikachu's Fair, Mario's Fair, Olimar's Yellow Pikmin Fair, etc. If that doesn't feel safe (like with multihit aerials that are spaced badly for you) hold shield until they hit the ground then go for the grab, assuming it didn't autocancel. Pivoted roll-cancel grab is also really good for catching people off guard since even though it has the same lag frame values, it has increased range and the lack of skidding like a regular pivot grab means that it is much easier to land. Also, don't attempt shield grabbing unless you're going in for the Bthrow kill. It's much easier to punish with Jab OoS so that when you do shield grab it's that much more unexpected, and your throws are fresh. You can also try forcing people into a favourable grabbing situation for you with Lloid. Punishing retreating rolls by running past the roll and grabbing where they'll end up is also really awesome, though you have to space it so that you don't end up grabbing while they're in the grab's dead zone.

 

[Lukingordex]

Villager's pivot grab has decent range though, and you can use it as a good read tool.

 

[mmik]

Can someone explain what a pivoted roll cancel grab is? And is there any reason to use the grab button over shield plus attack?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well a roll cancel grab is cancelling the first few frames of a roll with a grab to get a short distance increase, similar to boost grabbing (cancelling a dash attack with a grab), and a pivot RCG is just dashing in one direction, then rolling in the other and cancelling the roll with a grab. Pivot RCGs seem to have slightly farther reach than regular RCGs.

Also, I guess there isn't any advantage one way or the other, apart from guaranteeing a F1 grab as opposed to a F3 or so grab after shielding due to human error.

 

[CCCM89]

loyd rocket, dash towards your enemy, grab. if they dodge the grab, loyd hits them and you're safe from the ending lag. it they counter grab, they get hit and you're no longer grabbed. if they shield loyd, you can grab them. if they roll back, loyd. typically, using loyd to help you close the distance and grab enemies can make up for any shortcomings villager's grab may have.