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A statistical interpretation of roster size

00Elf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
217
Statistically speaking,

64 had eight starters and four unlockables. Therefore 50% of the roster was unlockable.
Melee had fourteen starters and eleven unlockables. 44% of the roster was unlockable.

Now let's count ZSS, Sheik, and PT's transformations as roster spots (These characters took just as much time to program as any others). Let's also assume that every character on the Dojo with the exclusion of Sonic and Snake is a starter. Finally, let's assume that no more starters exist. This puts the starting roster at 23, and the total minimum roster at 25.

Let's put the maximum roster size at 46 (given that it is unlikely that there will be more unlockables then starters).
3
So far, we have established:

Mean empirical proportion of unlockables to starters=47% ([50+44]/2)
Standard Deviation=4.24 characters (sqrt{[50-47]^2+[44-47]^2})
Minimum Roster Size=25 (Currently revealed)
Maximum Roster Size=46 (Double current assumed starter size)

So, when we apply this to a normal curve we see that the most likely final roster size is 34 (25*1.47) with a 68% chance that the final size will be between 30 and 38.

Now let's take into consideration the fact that Brawl has been in development for roughly 30 months. The development time for Melee was around 10 months.

Also, we must take into consideration that the Brawl team is much larger then the Melee team, with these facts, quantitative and qualitative alike, let's put the likely final roster three standard deviations above the mean.

So lets apply this to a normal curve.

25 --------- 29.76 ---------- 34 ---------- 38.24 --------- 42.48 ---------- 46.72
(minimum) (-1 stdev) (mean) (+1 stdev) (+2 stdev) (+3 stdev)


Therefore, I would postulate that based on the time that Brawl has been in development, plus the sheer amount of staff that Sakurai has on hand, that the final roster will be 47-48 characters.

Keep in mind that since I only had two samples available, I couldn't construct a suitable confidence interval. A census of 2 is hardly enough.
 

Qinopio

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Messages
366
Location
Massachusetts
64 had eight starters and four unlockables. Therefore 50% of the roster was unlockable.
Melee had fourteen starters and eleven unlockables. 44% of the roster was unlockable.
This doesn't check out. You're measuring relative to the starting roster for SSB, to the final roster for SSBM.
 

Corax The Cold

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
324
i already made this post afew months ago and everyone replied with "you cant use math to do anything ever"
 

Boofer

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
755
No offense, but you remind me of one of those nerds on TV series' that uses mathmatical equations to find patterns that don't exist.
 

Rx-

A.K.A. Disafter
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Messages
3,370
Location
Dallas, Tx
College Statistics ftw?

Except that expecting more than 42 characters in Brawl is no good.

Also, you counted Sheik(and ZSS and PT's Pkmn) as separate characters in the second paragraph, but not in the second line of the first paragraph.

Inconsistancies are not becoming of a Stat Student :):)
 

pirkid

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
1,254
Location
¿¡ Canada ¿¡
Wow.
Nice reasoning.

Shiek not confirmed. There's no necessary fact that a bigger team means more characters. Other then that, good job, and very technical. :)

EDIT: Lol, 301th post. Where'd my 300th go...dam Spartans...
 

Chaosblade77

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
1,958
As you say it's hard to make an analysis like that just because of the lack of data.

Even with a trend and numbers, I am not seeing much over 40 characters, if it even tops that. While more development (in every way, time, team, funding, etc) could easily mean a larger game scaled up from Melee/SSB64, it's highly unlikely.

With the time restrictions Melee had, it was a push to put in as much content as fast as possible. While I admit that is an assumption, Ganondorf (who's sword appears in the game code) and the unfinished Fire Emblem stage are evidence, along with the obvious short period of time they had.

It's pretty safe to say they will go for quality over quantity, especially with so much time and team they have.
 

Thi0s

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
141
I thought that Snake and Sonic were confirmed to be unlockables?
 

Boofer

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
755
i already made this post afew months ago and everyone replied with "you cant use math to do anything ever"
You can't use math to measure the likely-hood of a group of people's choices when it comes to something like this. There are too many factors that come into play that have nothing to do with mathematics. The biggest flaw is assuming that they intentionally came up with the final roster size. Sakurai actually said that they unintentionally arrived at 26 characters for melee.
 

Zek

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
784
Your numbers are wrong from the very beginning... 33% of SSB's roster was unlockable. 4/12. And even then, I think what you meant to say was that SSB's unlockable roster was 50% the size of its starting one, in which case SSBM's unlockable roster was 79% the size of its starting one. So the mean would be 64.5%.

Even then this whole argument is completely unsound because it relies on multiple baseless assertions. We don't know the starting roster for sure, and why do you think Sakurai is aiming for the same ratio of starters/unlockables for this game? Also, your maximum roster size is a completely made up number.

If Brawl has an unlockable pool 64.5% as big as its starter one, then we would have 41 characters.
 

Kasek

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
578
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, U.S.A., North America, Earth,
64 had eight starters and four unlockables. Therefore 50% of the roster was unlockable.
As much effort as you've put into this, I stopped actually being interested in this here. 4 =/= 12x(1/2). A doctorate in statistics doesn't do you any good if you can't do basic algebra.

And I apologize if this has been stated many times before. Like I said, I stopped being interested, and have no desire to see how much worse the other flames are, if any.

I also apologize about being rude. I tend to get.... fairly ticked off if people make basic mistakes such as this.
 

Corax The Cold

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
324
From my calculations i figured out that there will likely be about 18 hidden character in brawl, let me show you the math i did:

Game Characters Hidden Characters Total
SSB: 8 4 12
SSBM: 14 11 25
SSBB: 23 18 41
SSB4: 35 27 62

ok so how i got 18 was from 2 ways, 4 + 7 = 11, 11 + 7 = 18. so they increased the amount of secret characters by 7 for each game, now i wouldn't have bothered to post this if i hadnt got this next equasion: 11/14 = 0.78581. 0.78581 x 23 = 18.071

so from this you can tell that theres is a good chance the game will have 41 characters, 18 of wich will be unlockable, i thought some of you might find this interesting.

i also went ahead and used the asme calculations for the NEXT SSB game, i got 35 by adding 12 + 23. why 12? 8 + 6 = 14, 14 + 9 =23, so 23 + 12 (6 to 9 to 12) = 35. i got 27 and 62 the asme way i got 18 and 41, anyways i don't think we should get ahead of ourselves here i jsut couldn't resist calculating it.
this is from my original thread, much simpler, and still disliked by the community
 

Mikezor

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
433
Location
Centennial, Colorado
College Statistics ftw?
This is basic statistics. I'm in A. P. Statistics and this is what I learned in the first chapter. But still, it was a nice analysis with lack of information.

this is from my original thread, much simpler, and still disliked by the community
His uses practical math. Yours doesn't. If he would have elaborated more on the normal curve, it might make more sense.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot to say nice job.
 

OnyxVulpine

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
2,920
Location
Hawaii
I remember seeing a thread like this before. All I have to say is I doubt they made a mathematical thing with it. Its more of a feeling and instinct to them for what they will make secret or not.

-Onyx
 
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