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MasterOfKnees

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See, the thing about Geno is that he's a Spirit. I know y'all are probably tired of hearing the "spirits deconfirm characters" argument, but, like...

If Geno was ever planned to be a fighter, if that was even a concept that ever crossed Sakurai's mind, why would he bother making him a Spirit? Why give the people this consolation prize if he was gonna be playable? It's just effort put in for no reason.
I think most people realize this is the case for the Fighters Pass, but as far as we know it's not something that indicates much in regards to the additional DLC as they've likely been planned some time later, so at present all this really means is that #5 won't be a Spirit.
 

SneakyLink

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TheMagicofFriendshipGrows attempts to climb a tree, but falls on Scarecrow, killing them both.



Agitha forces Lesley Black Velvet to kill Lelouch vi Britannia or Guh-Huzzah. She decides to kill Lelouch vi Britannia.
The end is nearer and nearer
 

SneakyLink

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Top 3(or is it 4) is here!
It's 3

The Magic of Friendship Grows, Scarecrow, and Lelouch vi Britannia

Lesley Black Velvet quietly hums.



Guh-Huzzah stabs Agitha while her back is turned.

Place your bets: Will the winner be Lesley Black Velvet Lesley Black Velvet or Guh-Huzzah! Guh-Huzzah! ?

Answer will be revealed by 2:20 est
 
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osby

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SneakyLink

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1. Lesley Black Velvet
2. Guh-Huzzah
3. Agitha
4. Lelouch vi Britannia
5. Scarecrow
6. TheMagicofFriendshipGrows
7. Balle Solli
8. Chiyuki
9. Iridium
10. Smash 4 Ridley
11. Gooigi
12. Himeko Katagiri
13. osby
14. Bloody-Eyes
15. Persona Joker
16. Tom Servo
17. Duck Hunt
18. KMDP
19. Saint Holy Sword Dragon
20. Kamen Rider Joker
21. Terry Bogard
22. Mr. Window
23. COD Joker
24. DC Joker
25. SmittyWerbman Jaegerman
26. Le Monke
27. Toy Agumon
28. Mythra
29. Harmnics Messiah
30. ryumo the Zekenator
31. Scott the Woz
32. John Cena
33. Thanos Truck
34. Klaus
35. Plate of Pasta
36. Diane Chambers
37. Mouse in Sans Shoe
38. SSSniperWolf
39. Sakurai
40. Gavin Free
41. Angry German Kid
42. Thumbs Up Ken
43. Max
44. JDCabrera
45. The Pope
46. Star Butterfly
47. Corviknight
48. Cat Mario

4: Guh-Huzzah
4: Iridium
3: Lesley Black Velvet
3: Saint Holy Sword Dragon
3: Balle Solli
2: TheMagicofFriendshipGrows
2: Scarecrow
2: Bloody-Eyes
2: osby
1: Agitha
1: SmittyWerbman Jaegerman
1: Toy Agumon
1: Gooigi
1: COD Joker
1: Chiyuki
1: Himeko Katagiri
1: Duck Hunt
1: ryumo the Zekenator
1: Terry Bogard
1: Sakurai
1: Harmnics Messiah

Maybe I'll run it again Sunday to try and get an arena event.
 

Bakugan2556

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1. Lesley Black Velvet
2. Guh-Huzzah
3. Agitha
4. Lelouch vi Britannia
5. Scarecrow
6. TheMagicofFriendshipGrows
7. Balle Solli
8. Chiyuki
9. Iridium
10. Smash 4 Ridley
11. Gooigi
12. Himeko Katagiri
13. osby
14. Bloody-Eyes
15. Persona Joker
16. Tom Servo
17. Duck Hunt
18. KMDP
19. Saint Holy Sword Dragon
20. Kamen Rider Joker
21. Terry Bogard
22. Mr. Window
23. COD Joker
24. DC Joker
25. SmittyWerbman Jaegerman
26. Le Monke
27. Toy Agumon
28. Mythra
29. Harmnics Messiah
30. ryumo the Zekenator
31. Scott the Woz
32. John Cena
33. Thanos Truck
34. Klaus
35. Plate of Pasta
36. Diane Chambers
37. Mouse in Sans Shoe
38. SSSniperWolf
39. Sakurai
40. Gavin Free
41. Angry German Kid
42. Thumbs Up Ken
43. Max
44. JDCabrera
45. The Pope
46. Star Butterfly
47. Corviknight
48. Cat Mario

4: Guh-Huzzah
4: Iridium
3: Lesley Black Velvet
3: Saint Holy Sword Dragon
3: Balle Solli
2: TheMagicofFriendshipGrows
2: Scarecrow
2: Bloody-Eyes
2: osby
1: Agitha
1: SmittyWerbman Jaegerman
1: Toy Agumon
1: Gooigi
1: COD Joker
1: Chiyuki
1: Himeko Katagiri
1: Duck Hunt
1: ryumo the Zekenator
1: Terry Bogard
1: Sakurai
1: Harmnics Messiah

Maybe I'll run it again Sunday to try and get an arena event.
I have a few more characters(well a lot, actually) if you want me to give suggestions
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Here’s the thing with the Spirit argument.

As others have said, the DLC was planned ahead of time, as in, while the game was being finished. It had already been started prior to release. With this in mind, it’s clear that was a part of the planning phase, which implies Geno was not planned as DLC. All DLC has been entirely new. There’s only been one new 1st party DLC character in the history of Smash DLC. Nintendo is involved in the same capacity the 2nd time as they were the first. These are all points that at least suggest it will continue the precedent we have seen.

The opposing argument is, “Well, Sakurai could change his mind”. He could. But that’s not nearly as compelling of a point. It’s a suggestion with no evidence to support it.

This is exactly the same stuff that happened with Smash 4. “Sakurai could change his mind!” But why? Why would Sakurai change his mind? Popularity? Geno was popular and Sakurai knew he’s popular since Brawl. Why would a 6 month span now change that as opposed to over a decade of this knowledge?

It’s not convincing for people, and I personally like Geno. I just don’t find it convincing. Not trying to be a **** here, but this is how I see it. It’s a point with no explanation as to why it would suddenly change.

I’d be more than happy to listen to an explanation, but I need that to understand why it’s likely. Sakurai “changing his mind” was used to justify why Ridley would be DLC after being a stage boss. Obviously, that didn’t happen.
 
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Iridium

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1. Lesley Black Velvet
2. Guh-Huzzah
3. Agitha
4. Lelouch vi Britannia
5. Scarecrow
6. TheMagicofFriendshipGrows
7. Balle Solli
8. Chiyuki
9. Iridium
10. Smash 4 Ridley
11. Gooigi
12. Himeko Katagiri
13. osby
14. Bloody-Eyes
15. Persona Joker
16. Tom Servo
17. Duck Hunt
18. KMDP
19. Saint Holy Sword Dragon
20. Kamen Rider Joker
21. Terry Bogard
22. Mr. Window
23. COD Joker
24. DC Joker
25. SmittyWerbman Jaegerman
26. Le Monke
27. Toy Agumon
28. Mythra
29. Harmnics Messiah
30. ryumo the Zekenator
31. Scott the Woz
32. John Cena
33. Thanos Truck
34. Klaus
35. Plate of Pasta
36. Diane Chambers
37. Mouse in Sans Shoe
38. SSSniperWolf
39. Sakurai
40. Gavin Free
41. Angry German Kid
42. Thumbs Up Ken
43. Max
44. JDCabrera
45. The Pope
46. Star Butterfly
47. Corviknight
48. Cat Mario

4: Guh-Huzzah
4: Iridium
3: Lesley Black Velvet
3: Saint Holy Sword Dragon
3: Balle Solli
2: TheMagicofFriendshipGrows
2: Scarecrow
2: Bloody-Eyes
2: osby
1: Agitha
1: SmittyWerbman Jaegerman
1: Toy Agumon
1: Gooigi
1: COD Joker
1: Chiyuki
1: Himeko Katagiri
1: Duck Hunt
1: ryumo the Zekenator
1: Terry Bogard
1: Sakurai
1: Harmnics Messiah

Maybe I'll run it again Sunday to try and get an arena event.
So this is what I was doing.
 
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Here’s the thing with the Spirit argument.

As others have said, the DLC was planned ahead of time, as in, while the game was being finished. It had already been started prior to release. With this in mind, it’s clear that was a part of the planning phase, which implies Geno was not planned as DLC. All DLC has been entirely new. There’s only been one new 1st party DLC character in the history of Smash DLC. Nintendo is involved in the same capacity the 2nd time as they were the first. These are all points that at least suggest it will continue the precedent we have seen.

The opposing argument is, “Well, Sakurai could change his mind”. He could. But that’s not nearly as compelling of a point. It’s a suggestion with no evidence to support it.

This is exactly the same stuff that happened with Smash 4. “Sakurai could change his mind!” But why? Why would Sakurai change his mind? Popularity? Geno was popular and Sakurai knew he’s popular since Brawl. Why would a 6 month span now change that as opposed to over a decade of this knowledge?

It’s not convincing for people, and I personally like Geno. I just don’t find it convincing.
Because he simply ranked lower on the totem poll then the characters he decided on including in the limited amount of characters he could add at base.
 
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Bakugan2556

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I wanna make a Persona game that says rights for every LGBTQ minorities rights. I've been working on it in my head ever since I got into the franchise last year and will probably start drafting design docs when I finish experiencing the rest of the franchise.
That sounds like a bad and good idea at the same time, and I don't know which it is
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Because he simply ranked lower on the totem poll then the characters he decided on including in the limited amount of characters he could add at base.
If he had limited options for base roster, why would Sakurai not just make Geno a DLC fighter then? That restriction wouldn’t matter considering they were doing 5 more as DLC at the time.

Again, this is knowing Geno is popular for at least 10 years.
Season 2 DLC still wasn't being planned until around E3 this year, or at least, wasn't decided. I doubt they'd make negotiations beforehand, in case they decided to stop DLC production.
While true, what does this have to do with upgrades?

As in, why does the time in which wave 2 was selected matter when it comes to upgrading spirits? Why would one not simply expect more 3rd parties like the first 5 picks for DLC?
 
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Professor Pumpkaboo

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Why is it worded like that? Androgynous and non-binary aren't the same thing.
That sentence in that quote you made confuses me so much to the point I dont think the person who wrote that knows the difference between the two
 
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TheCJBrine

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While true, what does this have to do with upgrades?

As in, why does the time in which wave 2 was selected matter when it comes to upgrading spirits? Why would one not simply expect more 3rd parties like the first 5 picks for DLC?
Technically, Geno is a third-party. Sakurai could choose him for fans and it could show more goodwill between Square and Nintendo.

But regarding anything else, I'll just jokingly answer with "my heart" because I'm admittedly out of good reasons for him to upgrade anyone outside of what's been discussed in the Geno thread (which is less reasons and more adding to Geno's probability).

Also, not related to this stuff, but I'm feeling somewhat better about Steve's chances since it was decided around E3. Give me my blocky son. Though it seems insiders haven't talked about him so I'm not feeling that much better, but maybe some have elsewhere or more-internally...hopefully...
 
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Fluttershy64

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Aug 21, 2019
Messages
169

1. Lesley Black Velvet
2. Guh-Huzzah
3. Agitha
4. Lelouch vi Britannia
5. Scarecrow
6. TheMagicofFriendshipGrows
7. Balle Solli
8. Chiyuki
9. Iridium
10. Smash 4 Ridley
11. Gooigi
12. Himeko Katagiri
13. osby
14. Bloody-Eyes
15. Persona Joker
16. Tom Servo
17. Duck Hunt
18. KMDP
19. Saint Holy Sword Dragon
20. Kamen Rider Joker
21. Terry Bogard
22. Mr. Window
23. COD Joker
24. DC Joker
25. SmittyWerbman Jaegerman
26. Le Monke
27. Toy Agumon
28. Mythra
29. Harmnics Messiah
30. ryumo the Zekenator
31. Scott the Woz
32. John Cena
33. Thanos Truck
34. Klaus
35. Plate of Pasta
36. Diane Chambers
37. Mouse in Sans Shoe
38. SSSniperWolf
39. Sakurai
40. Gavin Free
41. Angry German Kid
42. Thumbs Up Ken
43. Max
44. JDCabrera
45. The Pope
46. Star Butterfly
47. Corviknight
48. Cat Mario

4: Guh-Huzzah
4: Iridium
3: Lesley Black Velvet
3: Saint Holy Sword Dragon
3: Balle Solli
2: TheMagicofFriendshipGrows
2: Scarecrow
2: Bloody-Eyes
2: osby
1: Agitha
1: SmittyWerbman Jaegerman
1: Toy Agumon
1: Gooigi
1: COD Joker
1: Chiyuki
1: Himeko Katagiri
1: Duck Hunt
1: ryumo the Zekenator
1: Terry Bogard
1: Sakurai
1: Harmnics Messiah

Maybe I'll run it again Sunday to try and get an arena event.
That was really fun thank you for doing that! :)
 
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That sentence in that quote you made confuses me so much to the point I dont think the person who wrote that knows the difference between the two
That's not all, but the rest of the sentence here: " meaning you couldn’t tell whether Gou is a man or woman at first sight." Doesn't confirm they're non-binary.

Gou has already been called a "10-year-old boy":


Leading me to believe that they really meant that the design is androgynous. It's basically clickbait.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Technically, Geno is a third-party. Sakurai could choose him for fans and it could show more goodwill between Square and Nintendo.

But regarding anything else, I'll just jokingly answer with "my heart" because I'm admittedly out of good reasons for him to upgrade anyone outside of what's been discussed in the Geno thread (which is less reasons and more adding to Geno's probability).
Not even technically...Geno is literally a 3rd party. No part of him is owned by Nintendo.

Could they do that as good will? I mean, I guess. But why not, instead, show goodwill between Nintendo and Capcom and add Dante, who isn’t in Smash at all, for Devil May Cry fans? Or add Doom Slayer to show good Will between Nintendo and Bethesda?

I’ll have to check the Geno thread, because while I love the fact that fans love their characters, there is the clear bias for that character.
 

TheCJBrine

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Not even technically...Geno is literally a 3rd party. No part of him is owned by Nintendo.

Could they do that as good will? I mean, I guess. But why not, instead, show goodwill between Nintendo and Capcom and add Dante, who isn’t in Smash at all, for Devil May Cry fans? Or add Doom Slayer to show good Will between Nintendo and Bethesda?

I’ll have to check the Geno thread, because while I love the fact that fans love their characters, there is the clear bias for that character.
I'm expecting Doom as well. I just think Geno could come as a second/third Square character.

It's mainly stuff from Fatmanonice, but now I regret bringing his info up and feel like I probably should just leave it there, though I guess it's in the public eye for anyone who cares, anyway...
 
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Professor Pumpkaboo

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That's not all, but the rest of the sentence here: " meaning you couldn’t tell whether Gou is a man or woman at first sight." Doesn't confirm they're non-binary.

Gou has already been called a "10-year-old boy":



Leading me to believe that they really meant that the design is androgynous. It's basically clickbait.
people like to ignore offical statements on characters sometimes, Like a kid that plugs their ears when you correct them lol
 
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Not even technically...Geno is literally a 3rd party. No part of him is owned by Nintendo.

Could they do that as good will? I mean, I guess. But why not, instead, show goodwill between Nintendo and Capcom and add Dante, who isn’t in Smash at all, for Devil May Cry fans? Or add Doom Slayer to show good Will between Nintendo and Bethesda?

I’ll have to check the Geno thread, because while I love the fact that fans love their characters, there is the clear bias for that character.
But like, I'm not understanding your point? Are you trying to argue likelihood? Because we really don't know how likely he is. Are you trying to argue deservatude? Because I thought we all agreed that that was a kind of dumb thing to argue because it's basically unquantifiable.

Here's the thing. Sakurai asked us what we wanted. If a character is well known to be liked to the degree that characters like Geno and Banjo are, and you have guaranteed sales to a sizeable market like that, then why not change your mind once you finally have some more room to play around with who you add?

You yourself said you like the character so what is even the point of this unflinching monolith?
 

Bakugan2556

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You yourself said you like the character so what is even the point of this unflinching monolith?
I'm not going to argue with the rest of your comment(not experienced enough to understand)

I'm almost certain the reason why Scoliosis Jones Scoliosis Jones is being a "unflinching monolith" in your words, is because he DISAGREES WITH YOU.
Just a though.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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But like, I'm not understanding your point? Are you trying to argue likelihood? Because we really don't know how likely he is. Are you trying to argue deservatude? Because I thought we all agreed that that was a kind of dumb thing to argue because it's basically unquantifiable.

Here's the thing. Sakurai asked us what we wanted. If a character is well known to be liked to the degree that characters like Geno and Banjo are, and you have guaranteed sales to a sizeable market like that, then why not change your mind once you finally have some more room to play around with who you add?

You yourself said you like the character so what is even the point of this unflinching monolith?
I've already said why I don't think Spirit upgrades are likely whatsoever, and I've asked for reasons why it would be likely. I haven't gotten any arguments besides "Sakurai could..." statements, which aren't arguments. It's a hypothetical, which isn't evidence. Meanwhile, I've suggested why it seems to not be likely, but I'm met with, "But Sakurai could...", each time.

I said nothing of being deserving, so I'm not quite sure where that came from. My point to your comment was, "If Sakurai knew that Geno was popular for nearly a decade, and made the decision (despite that known popularity) to still keep him non-playable, why would that same popularity suddenly, despite the prior knowledge of his popularity, cause Sakurai to suddenly make Geno playable?"

Instead, he made him the #1 class of Spirit over nearly 1000 others. That's my point. Despite the popularity, and the chance to make him playable as DLC, Sakurai still didn't.

Why would he do it now if the popularity of the character resulted in a Mii Costume previously and a Spirit now?
 
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Guh-Huzzah!

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1. Lesley Black Velvet
2. Guh-Huzzah
3. Agitha
4. Lelouch vi Britannia
5. Scarecrow
6. TheMagicofFriendshipGrows
7. Balle Solli
8. Chiyuki
9. Iridium
10. Smash 4 Ridley
11. Gooigi
12. Himeko Katagiri
13. osby
14. Bloody-Eyes
15. Persona Joker
16. Tom Servo
17. Duck Hunt
18. KMDP
19. Saint Holy Sword Dragon
20. Kamen Rider Joker
21. Terry Bogard
22. Mr. Window
23. COD Joker
24. DC Joker
25. SmittyWerbman Jaegerman
26. Le Monke
27. Toy Agumon
28. Mythra
29. Harmnics Messiah
30. ryumo the Zekenator
31. Scott the Woz
32. John Cena
33. Thanos Truck
34. Klaus
35. Plate of Pasta
36. Diane Chambers
37. Mouse in Sans Shoe
38. SSSniperWolf
39. Sakurai
40. Gavin Free
41. Angry German Kid
42. Thumbs Up Ken
43. Max
44. JDCabrera
45. The Pope
46. Star Butterfly
47. Corviknight
48. Cat Mario

4: Guh-Huzzah
4: Iridium
3: Lesley Black Velvet
3: Saint Holy Sword Dragon
3: Balle Solli
2: TheMagicofFriendshipGrows
2: Scarecrow
2: Bloody-Eyes
2: osby
1: Agitha
1: SmittyWerbman Jaegerman
1: Toy Agumon
1: Gooigi
1: COD Joker
1: Chiyuki
1: Himeko Katagiri
1: Duck Hunt
1: ryumo the Zekenator
1: Terry Bogard
1: Sakurai
1: Harmnics Messiah

Maybe I'll run it again Sunday to try and get an arena event.
Drat! So close!
 
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