A New Fox: SHDL, SHFFLC, and Combos

[pieisamazing]

I've only recently joined the community at smashboards, but I would like to say, first off, that I appreciate the people here and all the help that they have given me. Anyway, the sucking up aside, I am new to Fox and I could use some tips on certain aspects of playing him.

Short Hop Double Laser

This is one of the hardest moves for me to pull off. I can easily perform the SHL, then FF, repeat, etc (but only about 3 times in a row :\). Anyway, I just cannot get the timing down for this. It takes me a lot of thought to be able to slide my finger from the Y button to the B button in about .5 seconds. Like I said, I'm new to Fox, and maybe it will come in time, but my best friend owns me as Falco and I would just like a way to even up my damage output since my lasers don't give any stun. Is there any way for me to think of this differently to better my timing?

Short-Hope Fast Fall L-Canceling

I can do this on a semi-regular basis, with an attack in there, but I feel sluggish nevertheless. I cannot consistently do this, and, once again, it takes a second or two for my brain to process my need to short hop and press the button accordingly (not that my fingers always obey ). Also, for the L-Cancel portion of this, I cannot consistently get the timing right. I have practiced for several days now, several hours straight (uh... I have a life... sort of) and I still can't do it. Am I just a bad Fox player? Is there a certain timing, a certain pattern of button presses that I can use to yield better results?

Combos

I'm working on waveshining at the moment, and that opens up numerous combo possibilities, but I can't pull off waveshining on a regular basis. I AM getting better though. This section is mainly to ask if there is any basic combo(s) that I can fall back on if my attempt at being fancy (well, fancy to my standards) aren't working in a match? I try stringing SHFFLC Nairs together, but like mentioned previously, I can't do it consistently, and I end up doing Fairs much of the time.

Sorry for all the whining, but I would like to become better as Fox and this place (the FOX forums) seemed a good place to ask. I played the original SSB for 64 and SSBM since release and have only discovered that there is more to this game than meets the eye when I competed [badly] in a tournament about a year ago. Any advice is appreciated! And thanks in advance!

 

[RaynEX]

SHL:
As for the actual SHL. I use Y and B. It just takes practice. You'll get it eventually.

vs. Falco: Don't use it to even out damage vs. Falco. He uses lasers, you use grabs. You're supposed to grab **** him with timed uthrow -> regrabs. You can chain throw him from literally 0 to death with nothing but his uthrow. Mix in usmashes and utilts to further the pain.

SHFFLing: For any mobile nair;

Dash -> SH -> let go of Control stick -> A -> down on control stick -> L.

Its MUCH easier than it sounds. In time, you'll learn to do it in one swift motion, oftentimes without even thinking about it.

Combos: #1 Grab to Uair for kills. #2 Dair/Nair to shine. [OR GRAB, just don't spam it] #3: SHFFLed NAir to usmash.

Theres alot more too. Its less about memorizing strings, and more about acting based on opponent d.i. and percentage. Keep that in mind.

 

[ArcNatural]

vs. Falco the only standard combo I can think of that's easy is upthrow upsmash. Until like 80% it doesn't even matter if they DI you can JC upsmash before they can do anything. Once you can waveshine very well you can also thunder's combo Falco. You can also chaingrab falco a good percent. The easiest combo's to do with fox is grab upthrow upair or upsmash then follow it up depending on character. Another popular easy tactic is dash attack, uptilt, upair, and follow up.

Many of Fox's combo's are simply extensions of grab upthrow. shffl dair waveshine to grab, etc.

 

[pieisamazing]

Thanks a lot. I didn't expect to have an answer so quickly (but that didn't stop me from checking every 5 minutes ).
Thanks RaynEX for all of that useful information. In hindsight, it is as simple as you say, I just need some quicker fingers -.- I'll be working on it over the next few weeks.
And thank you Arcnatural for those basic combo ideas to get me started; I'll try them out next time my friends and I get together for some smash. (computers don't respond to fake-outs/mindgames very well >>)

 

[Mcscruff]

Don't waste your time camping falco with your lasers. You will fail miserably. What you should do, is to just Full jump nair over the lasers. Also, if possible, try to stick to platforms to get around falco's laser camping. As for all the technical stuff you're trying to learn, it comes with time. For L-canceling, forget about the timing for now. At first, just remember to press L (or R or Z) after each aerial, regardless of timing. Eventually, you'll get the timing down, and you won't even have to think about it.

 

[RaynEX]

OHh yeaa....

full hop nairs works really well against Falco. even if they get blocked, lcancel into shines.


Shines are faster than shield grabs and beat them everytime...so whether you hit his body or shield...you'll be safe.

 

[pieisamazing]

Thanks for the further advice. I can actually do most of what you suggest during my practice sessions, but when I get into a real game, my fingers slip and I can never remember to L cancel, time things right, wavedash, etc. I get nervous and end up dying because I rush in or wavedash for no reason, just to... pretend I have some sort of skill with Fox [now]. I try not to worry, but my friend (Falco) is kind of conceited and I really want to kick his @$$ so I get tense and [maybe] try too hard.

Sorry about being whiny again, but what do you guys do to calm down before a match? Drink water? Warm up a bit first? Just be good? Like I said, I'm practicing, and skill will come with time, but I lack confidence. Any advice is appreciated!

Oh, I can do Thunder's Combo now (about 40-50% of the time on a stationary opponent), but I have trouble with the waveshine. It's not pulling off the waveshine that's difficult, its making it go far enough to jab them when they hit the ground. Many times I end up aerial dodging horizontally because I tilt a bit too much. Sometimes I shield at the end as well >> Same with normal wavedashes.

 

[kenny10]

Until you can waveshine consistently, I wouldn't start trying to learn how to Thunder's combo yet. Anyways, try to learn basic combos as said above (grab to uthrow or grab). For something just a little more advance, try a drillgrab (dair, L-cancel, Z button) into what the people siad above.

 

[RaynEX]

The problem most people have with thunders isn't only the perfect WD. The speed of the waveshine matters. You need to do it to the extent where you are trailing your fallen opponent from behind, at the same speed.

As for angles. Put the control stick almost completely horizontal. The larger the acute angle between 'control stick down' and the direction you want to wavedash in, the longer the wavedash.

Hope that wasn't too confusing.

 

[_X_]

All of their advice is fine, you should take it. As for SHDL I'm pretty sure I can help.

I always wondered how people even did this, it seems stupidly impossible but it's really not.

It's all about sliding your thumb across to the B button from the X. Do not lift your thumb off the controller, it wastes too much time. Slide (across the A button (making sure not to hit it)) and press B twice. The initial slide to the B provides the first blast while another simple press provides the second. Just start mashin' it 'till you get it.

 

[RaynEX]

using Y and/or the control stick works too.

Though X/Y are arguably better, seeing as you can't get the Full D.i. distance if you use the control stick...(for reverse ones i believe.)

 

[4 Aces]

It seems that you need to work on the more basic advanced tech before rushing into character-specific tech. Shffl'ing is very important - to not master this is just like not playing advanced level. Same goes with wavedashing (I'm still working on my mindgames and such). Once you learn shffl'ing, you might come across trouble when you dair - this is because the timing of the l-cancel varies and is different depending on the # of hits that connects with the body/shield. You'll eventually get the general timing of dairs down. From there, you just tweak the timing slightly.

About being nervous, I get that sometimes too and especially when I first started out. You just have to 1. Be comfortable (get used to) at playing with other people and maybe crowds 2. Get used to using advanced techniques - especially in real matches (i.e. not computers). To get better at #2, you need to train a lot in training mode until you get really comfortable, then you need to play against people for like a million hours.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

we have a guide, its called "Cunning's guide to Fox McCloud" we also have a help thread for questions like this. They're both stickied.

 

[RaynEX]

we have a guide, its called "Cunning's guide to Fox McCloud" we also have a help thread for questions like this. They're both stickied.

he spheaks the truuf. read up.

 

[pieisamazing]

I actually did read every word of Cunning's guide (very well written and extremely helpful), but I just felt as if it would be just as well to get some different opinions and ideas from other players' experiences.

 

[4 Aces]

I actually did read every word of Cunning's guide (very well written and extremely helpful), but I just felt as if it would be just as well to get some different opinions and ideas from other players' experiences.

You too?! Well, I read everything except the character match-ups section; I only read the Sheik section and about half of Marth's. That guide took me literally like 5-6 hours to read. IDK...I guess I just read slow or something...the guide can sometimes be confusing...it's so detailed, and I like to be very precise -- especially when I'm learning something.

 

[RaynEX]

Read the Falco one. It helps aloot.

 

[4 Aces]

Alright, I'l get to it, but for now, I must sleep. XP

 

[chaos_Leader]

I was in the same boat 9 months ago, (still am in some ways) it takes time, and practice. I only just recently became able to pull off a Shffl fairly consistently, and I still forget to L cancel sometimes. What works for me is simply get the simple stuff down squeaky clean, so I can hold my own fairly well without using advanced techniques. From there I throw in a few shffl attacks, maybe a wavedash when needed. its slow, and its going to take time, but you'll get more and more comfortable with each passing match. If you don't have a firm foundation in the fundamentals, you won't be able to build a stable technical Fox (or any character for that metter).

The better the people you can play, the faster the process could potentially go

thats my two cents, good luck with your Fox.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

every few months i read it over again for stuff i might have missed. youll find some stuff you didnt get the first time as well

 

[pieisamazing]

Hmmm, more good advice. My friend (not the Falco player) is complaining when I 4-stock him with his own character (Fox). It feels kind of good, but then again, he just charges at me and either dash attacks or grabs = \

 

[RedYoshi92]

there are different combos you can do.Cunning's guide can help you and there is also a thread made by silent wolf called "thunders combo" check it out whenever you want.hope thats helps your fox

 

[RaynEX]

Hmmm, more good advice. My friend (not the Falco player) is complaining when I 4-stock him with his own character (Fox). It feels kind of good, but then again, he just charges at me and either dash attacks or grabs = \

That seems more like boasting than advice.

To each's own I suppose :/

 

[pieisamazing]

That seems more like boasting than advice.

To each's own I suppose :/

Well, I wasn't giving advice to myself = \ I was more saying that I am actually improving with Fox and am able to win against a friend who mains him, albeit he's not very good. Didn't mean to come off as bragging = \

 

[RaynEX]

It was just funny because you started it like this:

Hmmm, more good advice.

then went into a brag spree. Whatevs though. Lets not spam in this thread.