A more faithful Ganondorf/Ganon... as a separate character (If you want it, vote for it!)

[Quillion]

Screw it! I'm making this thread, and I have no regrets.

The Support thread for a different, more canonical Ganon

So we're all sick of Ganondorf being Falcondorf again. It's been like this ever since Melee, but personally, three games in, and I've personally grown sick of it. I grudgingly tolerated it in Melee and Brawl, but Smash U, I'm not taking this sitting down.

Now, time for an out-there idea: what if we just had a different Ganondorf in a separate slot? Let's have a brief review of the source material. (linked because I don't want to overwhelm the OP with videos)

First, the swords:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p71I8slrgrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx0Yfg6EasQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87nkWPZ_UMI

And tridents:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLXMc0u7W-E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVfXp7yVQDc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnfLgQxWxe0

And reflecting projectiles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHn7eli6uic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrENG9qjhA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhIqGv_1z5I

As you can see, there are several different pillars that Ganon has had throughout his tenure in the series: using a bladed weapon, using projectiles, reflecting projectiles, and teleporting. So much more potential to create a unique character instead of insisting on... Falcondorf.

If the developers can somehow be convinced to go through with this idea, all they would have to do is append the sword to Ganondorf's current model, then animate him. Half their work would be done already.

As a separate slot, Falcondorf would still be around, while a more pleasing Ganondorf for his fans would be available too. Sounds like a good idea?

As for character models, there are several options for that, too:

Classic Ganon:

This form of Ganon has appeared in more games than any other (even the Gerudo Ganondorf form), and his unique and consistent trident and magical attacks are generally associated with this incarnation more than the Ganondorf incarnation.

Toon Ganondorf:

This one would serve as a nice counterpart to Toon Link, and it's mainly with this incarnation that the dual-swords moveset is associated (though OoT Ganon did it first).

This design of Ganondorf is very popular among the Zelda fandom, as many believe it combines the best of all portrayals. He uses dual swords much like the Toon design, though they are asymmetrical. The one obstacle to this Ganon design is that he doesn't originate from the main series, and Smash generally doesn't like to represent spinoff characters if Mario is any indication.

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf:

This one (or a modified version from an old Gamecube tech demo) was actually used in Melee, plus he used a sword in victory poses and official art for some reason. Maybe the return of this model could signify the use of his sword.

Also, his Phantom clone in OoT wields a trident like the Classic version, which can be used instead of the tech demo sword.

Twilight Princess Ganondorf w/ more swords

If they can go with giving an alternate Mario his Dr.'s outfit, they could easily just copy the current Ganondorf model and replace his normals with Sword moves. This would benefit the developers by giving them much less modeling work.

Some combination of the above:
Even though Sakurai kinda sucks at making a good composite of character designs for the Zelda series, it's not out of the question.

Obligatory moveset ideas:

Spoiler: L9999

Neutral B: Dead Man's Volley: An energy projectile that can be reflected like DDD's Gordos but when it hits, it stuns and blows up.
Side B: Flame Choke. No need for changing it because it fits Ganon.
Up B: Flight of Ganon: A move that makes him fly like Pit in Brawl with limited time.
Down B: Horse Ride: Ganon pulls out a horse and rides around the stage hitting people.

His Up Tilt is replace by his Up Smash, and his Up Smash is replaced by his Up Tilt. That is that Ganon has a better Up Tilt, and Up Smash is cool and strong (and obviously the charging animation is the startup animation of Up Tilt).
Down Smash is the fist quake from Ocarina of Time instead of the effeminate kicks of Captain Falcon.
Side Smash is Warlock Blade with all its properties. (shield breaker, tip, super armor, etc.)

Uair and Nair are change to sword swings becuase they are the most Captain Falconsy moves left. Dair and Bair stay because they fit the character. This two aerials and Side Smash are the only moves that involves swords at all and it would work just fine.

Now instead of hitting like an old lady in his pummels, Ganon does the Flame Choke animation brutally electrifying his opponent's face. His throws also have more darkness over-the-top aggressiveness.

There you go, only 10 moves where changed and Ganon is no longer a clone.

 

[Koskinator]

Why does this thread exist

 

[PKBeam]

this isn't the first time you've made such a suggestion, no...?

 

[MagiusNecros]

The funny thing is that ganondorf doesn't even have a complete model.

 

[Quillion]

this isn't the first time you've made such a suggestion, no...?

It's the first time I made a thread for it, though.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Personally, I prefer the idea of a wizard Ganondorf over a sword one (if my profile picture didn't hint at that), but hell, Canondorf is Canondorf. Gimme that sword.

 

[Quillion]

Oh, and don't forget to at least vote regularly for it if you want it.

 

[Spootondorf]

I'd prefer magic plus brutality. His current moveset is brutal (though I'd prefer his default down special to be a ground-shaking stomp that hits opponents into the air, where he could catch them by their throat with an altered grab), but it's lacking in canon magic. Default side special should stay almost exactly as is, up special I'm not sure about, but neutral special could be changed to Dead Man's Volley with the ability to bat back the energy shot, instead of shooting another one, while the first one is in play.

His swordplay is mostly in Wind Waker, which doesn't fit with the Twilight Princess character model very well, considering both the sword techniques and the fact that he has two. In TP, the sword is his last option after Link exhausted all the other phases of the fight, and even then, I don't remember him doing much with the sword. To me, the sage's sword he wields in TP is more visual than practical (but maybe that's because I barely ever let him use the thing on me).

I definitely want alterations to the Dorf, but I think the magic-plus-brutality angle precludes using the sword for most of his moveset.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Use a different Dorf model then. Sheik never had a TP model yet here we are 2 games later.

Hyrule Warriors has the better models anyway.

 

[Quillion]

Use a different Dorf model then. Sheik never had a TP model yet here we are 2 games later.

Hyrule Warriors has the better models anyway.

Koei's models only work within their little spinoff. It's not going to work in Zelda canon, which means it won't work in Smash.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Koei's models only work within their little spinoff. It's not going to work in Zelda canon, which means it won't work in Smash.

If Aonuma gave the ok it would work fine but Sakurai is only interested in making Sheik good and the others eh. Putting zelda in free fall after an aerial dins fire is stupid.

 

[Pyrofruit]

How about Toon Ganondorf?

 

[Enderwoman]

do you just live to complain about this character

It would also be pretty redundant, we don't need 2 Ganondorfs. Its a terrible idea, and its even worse to have the two share the same character model. Like, why?

 

[MagiusNecros]

do you just live to complain about this character

It would also be pretty redundant, we don't need 2 Ganondorfs. Its a terrible idea, and its even worse to have the two share the same character model. Like, why?

Having 2 links is redundant. As well as 2 zeldas. Admittedly the 2 zeldas play differently.

 

[Enderwoman]

Having 2 links is redundant. As well as 2 zeldas. Admittedly the 2 zeldas play differently.

Zelda/Sheik is arguable as to whether or not they're different. We don't need more of the same character.

 

[TheGameCrewNerds]

change falcondorf into Blood Falcon and give gannondorf a new moveset

 

[Quillion]

do you just live to complain about this character

It would also be pretty redundant, we don't need 2 Ganondorfs. Its a terrible idea, and its even worse to have the two share the same character model. Like, why?

Some people like a faster, weaker Link.

By that logic, more people (I'm willing to bet nearly everyone) would love a Ganondorf that actually uses a weapon Sakurai's been trolling us about since Brawl. And having the same character model would mean less work for the developers so that they can get it out sooner.

 

[TheGameCrewNerds]

or use my idea

 

[Quillion]

or use my idea

Let's think in realistic terms. I'm going to be optimistic that if we suggest small, we'll have a better chance of getting what we want.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Zelda/Sheik is arguable as to whether or not they're different. We don't need more of the same character.

Indeed why not make Ganondorf more representative of the franchise he came from instead of thinking he challenges Captain Falcon to a race in his Black Bull.

The other Zelda characters work fine. Even Sheik does.

 

[Quillion]

Indeed why not make Ganondorf more representative of the franchise he came from instead of thinking he challenges Captain Falcon to a race in his Black Bull.

The other Zelda characters work fine. Even Sheik does.

Admittedly I would prefer that Sheik be replaced with Impa if they were splitting off, but they did say that they already made the character model beforehand.

 

[WwwWario]

I actually like Dorf just like he is. However, I'd actually be cool with Toon Ganondorf. A slightly faster Dorf with his dual swords combined with kicking and other moves.

 

[TheGameCrewNerds]

I'd actually be cool with Toon Ganondorf. A slightly faster Dorf with his dual swords combined with kicking and other moves.

sorry but no

 

[Quillion]

I actually like Dorf just like he is. However, I'd actually be cool with Toon Ganondorf. A slightly faster Dorf with his dual swords combined with kicking and other moves.

So why are you posting this in a thread about making Sword Ganondorf a separate character?

 

[WwwWario]

So why are you posting this in a thread about making Sword Ganondorf a separate character?

I said I wanted a seperate Sword Ganon character.... in a thread about having a seperate Sword Ganon character.... isn't that, like, the point?

 

[Quillion]

I said I wanted a seperate Sword Ganon character.... in a thread about having a seperate Sword Ganon character.... isn't that, like, the point?

I'd rather not have Toon Ganondorf, though. That's be too much work for the designers.

 

[WwwWario]

I'd rather not have Toon Ganondorf, though. That's be too much work for the designers.

Maybe. But I was still talking about the point of this thread - a seperate Sword Ganon.

Anway, I think just having a second Ganondorf looking the same but with a Sword wouldn't work. They would have to look different in some way. That's why I suggested Wind Waker Ganon.

 

[TheGameCrewNerds]

Maybe. But I was still talking about the point of this thread - a seperate Sword Ganon.

Anway, I think just having a second Ganondorf looking the same but with a Sword wouldn't work. They would have to look different in some way. That's why I suggested Wind Waker Ganon.

or OoT gannon*

*edit: gannondorf

 

[Tino]

How about just leave Ganondorf the way he is. I don't have a problem with him being "Falcondorf" at all.

 

[Quillion]

How about just leave Ganondorf the way he is. I don't have a problem with him being "Falcondorf" at all.

Where did I say anything about changing Ganondorf again?

What we need are OPTIONS.

 

[Spirst]

I've moved this thread to the more general Character Discussion board seeing as how a similar Wario one exists. I'd touch up the OP a bit though @ Quillion so it looks more in line with the other DLC support threads.

As for the people saying that Ganondorf should be left as is, that's fine you think that but completely misses the point of this thread.

 

[Aetheri]

To be fair a few of his moves are based on his actions within the Zelda games...
From Twilight Princess his Side B is based on when he kills the sage and ftilt and dtilt are based on his sparta kick in the final battle...Also his fsmash is loosely based on his elbow in the final battle as well (it is usually followed up by a sword slash mind you)...
From Ocarina of Time his fair was based on his heavy ground pound attack
the use of darkness and electrical attacks are based on Ocarina of Time as well...

The only real thing I think Ganondorf needs is his Dead Man's Volley projectile as it is featured in pretty much every single Zelda game since ALTTP, so it is a pretty iconic attack in the Zelda series...and perhaps a better recovery, since he can basically fly in game...(maybe his dark dive can be a warping move as Ganon does this often in the games)...
so in other words give him a projectile and a better recovery...two areas Ganondorf really struggles with...

Overall creating a seperate Ganondorf that works similarily to the one we have just with a sword is kinda redundant...

 

[pandajedi]

It's interesting, a lot of Zelda fans want one-off villains or side characters, but the only really important characters are Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, and since those three repeatedly reincarnate through time, it kinda makes sense that there's multiples of them in the Smash roster. There's two Links, and two Zeldas (because Sheik is Zelda), I don't see why there can't be two Ganondorfs. However, there would have to be some angle to take with it that's more unique than just "a second Ganondorf that plays differently". Personally, I only see two viable options on that front: Toon Ganondorf, or Classic Ganon (the trident wielding boar-man).

Alternatively, I'd rather just have the current Ganondorf be given a new moveset, and rather than keeping Falcondorf around as well, they should take the Falcondorf moveset and port it wholesale to another character: Black Shadow. That way if you've been playing Ganondorf for three games and want to still have his moveset, you still can, but the Falcon clone will be from Falcon's series, a series that deserves another rep at that, and the Zelda fans will finally get the Canondorf they deserve.

P.S. I also support those saying they'd rather have wizard Ganondorf than Sword Ganondorf. That's a more interesting angle, though certainly a bit of both could be done.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'd rather have the Classic Ganon if we where to get a second Ganon. (Or Toon Ganondorf is cool too I suppose)

 

[Quillion]

I'd rather have the Classic Ganon if we where to get a second Ganon. (Or Toon Ganondorf is cool too I suppose)

Classic Ganon has appeared in more games AND has more consistent abilities than Ganondorf, to be fair. That could actually work.

Though oddly, Sakurai seems to consider Ganondorf and Ganon to be kinda separate if the Melee Classic trophy is any indication.

 

[Wintropy]

As with Wario, my ideal Ganondorf would be the one we have now with a few tweaks to put him more in line with his canon appearance.

I love his playstyle and I think he feels like Ganondorf, but he doesn't look like Ganondorf. Even a few changes to his moveset would be great. Personally I like the idea that each of his custom moves would be based on a different type of power: fists, magic and swords, respectively, so you can pick and choose the ones you like best.

 

[Jotari]

As with Wario, my ideal Ganondorf would be the one we have now with a few tweaks to put him more in line with his canon appearance.

I love his playstyle and I think he feels like Ganondorf, but he doesn't look like Ganondorf. Even a few changes to his moveset would be great. Personally I like the idea that each of his custom moves would be based on a different type of power: fists, magic and swords, respectively, so you can pick and choose the ones you like best.

I am in complete agreement here. My perfect Ganon moveset would change
-Warlock Blade to his defualt neutral special, changing it to Demise's Sword from Skyward Sword and making more of a thrusting attack than that awkward back stab animation.
-Give him Dead Man's Volley as an alt neutral special.
-Give him a long charging attack (longer than Thoron) that slowly decreases when not charging but would essentially be his current final smash leaving a controllable transformation for his actual final smash.
-Move Wizard's Foot as an alt side special and keep Flame Chain, call it Gerudo Dragon though and give it some dragon imagery because that's a kick ass name. Also none of his side specials would induce a helpless state though they can only be used once in the air.
-A cape attack that reflects projectiles as his defualt down special.
-Greatly increase his grab range but give it a lot of lag like Pacman's.
-Have a stunning attack called The Imprisoned as an alt down special that has the range of his old grab.
-Have Parry as his last down special alt, a counter with a sword.
-Have his first Up Special Alt be Trident Warp where he becomes stationary in the air and flings his trident, when it reaches a certain distance he warps to right beside the weapon and slashes with it.
-Have his other Up Special be Quake, a raise and fall pound move that buries enemies at the cost of less recovery than the other two. I'm also considering replacing Dark Dive with Dark Fists since it's such a useful attack.

The only changes I'd like to see to his A moveset, aside from some damage tweaking, would be to give him a new down smash based on his charged pound in the Oracle Games and the ability to cancel his up tilt. If we full utilize the alternate specials and let him do these things then he could represent everything. I think the things people want to see him do, use magic, sword(s), trident, reflecting projectiles, server better and are highlighted as aspects of him better, as specials.

 

[Sakuraichu]

How about pig Ganon?

 

[Altais]

If Ganondorf ever was de-cloned, I'd want the majority of his moveset to involve his trident. So far, we don't have a single character in Smash whom wields a lance-like weapon, so the trident alone would make Ganondorf unique.

In one moveset I wrote, Ganon's normal special was that one attack he uses in Ocarina of Time, where he creates a large ball of dark energy above him, which then breaks into several smaller homing projectiles--said move cannot be used until it is fully charged. His upward special had him throwing his trident in a guided path (similar to Pac-Man's side special), then teleporting to the trident. His down-special was his earthquake punch from Ocarina of Time, and his side-special was a phantom horse. If used on the ground, the phantom horse would charge forward, knocking away any opponent it collides with. If used in the air, the horse will jump in an arc.

 

[Quillion]

If Ganondorf ever was de-cloned...

AGAIN, this is to make more faithful!Ganondorf a separate character, not changing him right now.