A Monolith Soft Character

[LukeFonFabre]

Uhh, have you watched, you know, anime? Kosmos is about as original as the Madden sequels.

The "asskicking female robot" has been done to death, and I'm sorry, but she IS dressed lS dressed like a prostitute..

I do watch anime, and practically any character has been done 1 million times before. If you actually read what I said, you'd realize I said that KOS-MOS was a more unique character than Kalas, especially in terms as an actual fighter (which was the point I'm making which seemed to have gone right over your head).

And why is the fact she has some exposed skin such a problem for you?

 

[S_B]

Funny, I don't remember short, Italian plumbers, princesses who lord over kingdoms of fungus and eskimos being frequent topics of anime...

And why is the fact she has some exposed skin such a problem for you?

Some? Some?! I've walked the streets of Montreal at night and seen actual "professional women" who were dressed far more conservatively than Kosmos.

If you type "S&M ensemble" into google, I'm betting you'll find pictures of a lot of women wearing garments very akin to those of Kosmos. She wears a lace-up corset and thigh-high boots with spiked heels, items pretty standard on your average dominatrix.

It should go without saying that we don't need that kind of thing in SSB games.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Funny, I don't remember short, Italian plumbers, princesses who lord over kingdoms of fungus and eskimos being frequent topic of anime...

Yeah, but I remember some randomer saving the world from a sh-tload of anime and fiction in general, what's your point?

 

[S_B]

Yeah, but I remember some randomer saving the world from a sh-tload of anime and fiction in general, what's your point?

Are you comparing the meme of "saving the world" to "female robots"?

Saving the world is an act of heroism, and heroism has been around for quite some time. In fact, every character in SSB (with the exception of Ganondorf) has performed some act of heroism at one time or another.

Female robots are...well, I'm not even going to get into the details about which parts of the male mind appreciate scantily-clad machines designed to look like women.

But needless to say, they DO NOT stand anywhere near the level of acts of heroism when it comes to positive recurring themes in media.

 

[Fafnir]

Kalas would be great, and he's essentially first party now. I'd love to see him in.

I'm also a big fan of KOS-MOS, and here's a moveset that I posted on GFAQs earlier. I'll also add more info to it. Her chances are small, but hey, Snake only had one game on a Nintendo system that wasn't a remake/port(MGS: Ghost Babel, which isn't even cannon to the MGS story)(as opposed to Xenosaga 1&2 DS, which IS the new cannon for episode 2), so I'd imagine Kossy's chances are as good as Snake's especially considering Namco's(KOS-MOS is NOT second party, she and all other Xenosaga characters and storyline are still owned by Namco, although I'd imagine that they'd still allow Nintendo and Monolith to develop it) and Nintendo's good relationship.

I'd kill to have her and/or Kalas in.

KOS-MOS is my favourite videogame character...

Her final smash could be her uterus beam(X buster)

Her costumes could all be different versions of her.

She'd have one of the easiest movests to make, by far. All her attacks would translate well.

^B: Nemesis(fires a blast downwards, creating a shockwave and sending her upwards)(sends enemy diagonally away from you)
>B: F-Scythe(dashes forward and attacks with the F-Scythe)(sends enemy flying towards you)
vB: R-Cannon(charges the R-Cannon for a second, and fires a strong blast. Sends her flying backwards a short distance)(sends enemy flying away from shot)
B: Beam Gun(fires a shot from her beam pistol. Does medium damage, but needs to recharge after each shot. it recharges automatically, but cannot be used until it has recharged over time, which takes about 1.75 seconds)(sends enemy back slightly)

>Smash: R-Blade(diagonal/horizontal slash with R blade)(sends the enemy away with a slightly upward angle)
vSmash: K-Axe(axe kick, counts as a spike if it hits with the heel)
^Smash: R-Blade(upper slash)(vertical)(sends enemy flying upwards at an angle, depending on where the R-Blade hit them)

>tilt: spin kick(forward knockback)
vtilt: R-Blade(shoelace sweep)(knocks opponent up a bit)
^tilt: upwards kick(similar to Zelda's)(sends the enemy flying upwards, much more knockback if it hits with the tip)

A: half spin kick(turns 180 degrees while delivering a kick)(stuns, very little knockback)
A A: spin kick(follows up with a jumping spin kick)(similar to F-tilt, but with less power and knockback, but faster)

Nair: Air Burst(fire surrounds KOS-MOS for a moment, similar to Mewtwo's Nair, but it only hits once with more power and knockback)(knockback depends on which part of the flare was hit)
Fair: K-Axe(spike if hit with heel of foot)
Dair: Needle Kick(think Fox's Dair, but instead of just spinning, she kicks repeatedly as she spins)(very little knockback)
Uair: K-Pike(arm turns into a lance and thrusts upwards)(if it hits with the tip, it will send the opponent 90 degrees upwards. If it hits with anywhere else on the pike, they are sent downwards diagonally at a low speed)

Dash attack: W-Blade(similar to R-Blade, but the blade is longer and weaker)(Sends the opponent flying backwards if hit with the tip)

Her wieght would be mid-heavy, because she's a robot and all(and it fits to her official weight of 92KGs/203lbs), she'd be medium hight(5'6''). She'd have slightly less traction then the princesses(heels and all). Her jumps would be of above-average hight, and her movement speed would be average. Overall, she'd be a well rounded character, with a selection of fast combo moves, and slower moves which could be comboed into. Her main KO moves would be R-Cannon, and her R-Blade smashes, along with her spikes.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Are you comparing the meme of "saving the world" to "female robots"?

Saving the world is an act of heroism, and heroism has been around for quite some time. In fact, every character in SSB (with the exception of Ganondorf) has performed some act of heroism at one time or another.

Female robots are...well, I'm not even going to get into the details about which parts of the male mind appreciate scantily-clad machines designed to look like women.

But needless to say, they DO NOT stand anywhere near the level of acts of heroism when it comes to positive recurring themes in media.

It doesn't f-cking matter if it has a positive influence or not, it's still a dumb a-s cliche that gets extremely annoying, and it's stupid. Seriously, you have no right to complain, since you obviously aren't very tasteful about fiction if you think "scantily-clad" women totally ruin something.

 

[S_B]

It doesn't f-cking matter if it has a positive influence or not, it's still a dumb a-s cliche that gets extremely annoying, and it's stupid.

And yet its only the basis of...98% of all games out there: "do something heroic".

Shouldn't you change your avatar? You ARE aware that Ness is guilty of the same "dumb a-s" cliché of doing something incredibly heroic, right?

Seriously, you have no right to complain, since you obviously aren't very tasteful about fiction if you think "scantily-clad" women totally ruin something.

Uh-huh, go ahead and put words in my mouth, since you can't make a compelling argument any other way (not that your current argument is compelling, mind you).

I don't think robots dressed like hookers should be in SSB games. She wouldn't "ruin" the game, but I don't think Nintendo should have that kind of crap in one of their most prized and revered franchises.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

And yet its only the basis of...98% of all games out there: "do something heroic".

Shouldn't you change your avatar? You ARE aware that Ness is guilty of the same "dumb a-s" cliché of doing something incredibly heroic, right?

No, I don't hate the cliche when it's actually pulled off well, but I do think it's very generic and dumb. But that's not the point. The point is, it's basically the same over-used meme in storylines, ever, just like scantily clad women. Yes, they are the same in that aspect, to the core, either you like that or not.

Uh-huh, go ahead and put words in my mouth, since you can't make a compelling argument any other way (not that your current argument is compelling, mind you).

Yeah, obviously so, since your argument is just, "I hate her because she looks like a hooker just because she's scantily-clad, it's oh-so wrong to dress that way!" Obviously my argument has no merit at all compared to your's, right?

I don't think robots dressed like hookers should be in SSB games. She wouldn't "ruin" the game, but I don't think Nintendo should have that kind of crap in one of their most prized and revered franchises.

How is it crap? Just because YOU don't like it? Get real and f-cking grow up.

 

[Fafnir]

It doesn't f-cking matter if it has a positive influence or not, it's still a dumb a-s cliche that gets extremely annoying, and it's stupid. Seriously, you have no right to complain, since you obviously aren't very tasteful about fiction if you think "scantily-clad" women totally ruin something.

Even if saving the world happens alot, it happens in almost every videogame out there. Or atleast, almost every RPG(traditional J styled, atleast).

KOS-MOS does not save the world(or in the case of Xenosaga, stop the universe from collapsing and restarting on itself), she just helps Shion do it(if that makes any difference). Also, despite the fact that hooker-boot gynoids have been done before, KOS-MOS does it well. she manages to be memorable and powerful(Both gameplay, story, and character-wise), while still being graceful. She also manages to pull off that look while not looking COMPLETELY like a *****(BLAME KEVIN DAMMIT! BLAME KEVIN!).

I wouldn't call her personality ****ty, she is a robot after all. Only after she

Spoiler

defeats and absorbs T-elos

does she gain

Spoiler

the personality of Mary

, and even after that, she isn't really the true KOS-MOS until after

Spoiler

she defies Willheim

. Up until that point, I believed they managed to show her cold, robotic personality very well.

 

[S_B]

No, I don't hate the cliche when it's actually pulled off well, but I do think it's very generic and dumb. But that's not the point. The point is, it's basically the same over-used meme in storylines, ever, just like scantily clad women. Yes, they are the same in that aspect, to the core, either you like that or not.

The difference you're missing here is that one is a storytelling meme and the OTHER is an attempt to sell a product using sex.

How popular do you HONESTLY think Kosmos would be if it was a male robot instead?

Yeah, obviously so, since your argument is just, "I hate her because she looks like a hooker just because she's scantily-clad, it's oh-so wrong to dress that way!" Obviously my argument has no merit at all compared to your's, right?

Oh, it's not wrong to dress that way. Prostitutes use it to great effectiveness, but my point is that I don't think anything dressed like a prostitute belongs in a SSB game.

How is it crap? Just because YOU don't like it? Get real and f-cking grow up.

Growing up would be looking past the fact that the only reason you like Kosmos is because it's a robot that looks like a woman.

Again, if Kosmos was a man, I don't think there'd be anywhere near this level of support for it.

 

[S_B]

I wouldn't call her personality ****ty, she is a robot after all. Only after she

Spoiler

defeats and absorbs T-elos

does she gain

Spoiler

the personality of Mary

, and even after that, she isn't really the true KOS-MOS until after

Spoiler

she defies Willheim

. Up until that point, I believed they managed to show her cold, robotic personality very well.

Stick her in a more conservative outfit and I'd have no problem with her.

But what she's wearing in the picture I posted is typically an ensemble donned by women who are either paid for sex or paid to "discipline" men who enjoy pain.

 

[Fafnir]

Storywise, KOS-MOS couldn't be a man. They could do whatever they wanted with her design, but they'd have to keep her as a her, either that, or heavily alter the storyline.

Also, she does done a more conservative outfit in the anime... in the very first episode. Although she looks like a giant cardboard box.

Her episode 2 outfit is pretty conservative. Sure, you see through her completely, but it's just blue gel. I wouldn't mind the costume if they didn't screw the rest of it up though(the change in artstyle in ep.2 was NOT kind to KOS-MOS)..

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

The difference you're missing here is that one is a storytelling meme and the OTHER is an attempt to sell a product using sex.

Yeah, and the heroic meme is an attempt to sell out on the idea of some epic hero going on some journey to save something big, you got me there, man!

How popular do you HONESTLY think Kosmos would be if it was a male robot instead?

Probably about the same.

Oh, it's not wrong to dress that way. Prostitutes use it to great effectiveness, but my point is that I don't think anything dressed like a prostitute belongs in a SSB game.

Mind explaining instead of constantly complaining about how it shouldn't be in Brawl?

Growing up would be looking past the fact that the only reason you like Kosmos is because it's a robot that looks like a woman.

Again, if Kosmos was a man, I don't think there'd be anywhere near this level of support for it.

Yeah, even though I stated my reason on why KOS-MOS would make a great character, obviously I'm swooned by her amazing scantily cladness that gives me a boner everytime I see her, it must be it!

 

[S_B]

Storywise, KOS-MOS couldn't be a man. They could do whatever they wanted with her design, but they'd have to keep her as a her, either that, or heavily alter the storyline.

I'm just saying the appeal stems from the robot's appearance.

Namco knows as well as anyone that sex sells. Kosmos' appearance is far from an accident.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Yes, Smash Bros. appeals to conservative f-ggots, must be it!

 

[S_B]

Yeah, and the heroic meme is an attempt to sell out on the idea of some epic hero going on some journey to save something big, you got me there, man!

Actually, yes, I DO have you there, because you're still trying to compare a heroic journey, generally filled with though provoking character development, to slapping a dominatrix costume on a machine.

Probably about the same.

Then you have absolutely no grasp on how the world works. Might I suggest living in a Buddhist sanctuary to seek shelter from a society you have no hope of ever understanding (it'll also help you relieve some of that anger).

Mind explaining instead of constantly complaining about how it shouldn't be in Brawl?

There's NOTHING to explain. I don't want a female character dressed like a hooker in SSBB because I feel it cheapens the game and the characters in it (and I know Nintendo wouldn't want their family-friendly image to suffer because of something like that).

Yeah, even though I stated my reason on why KOS-MOS would make a great character, obviously I'm swooned by her amazing scantily cladness that gives me a boner everytime I see her, it must be it!

You said it. Not me.

 

[S_B]

Yes, Smash Bros. appeals to conservative f-ggots, must be it!

On that same subject, I doubt the potential inclusion of Kosmos (at least in her hooker outfit) because Nintendo tends to err on the conservative side.

Like I said, put her in a better outfit and I could see it then.

Though, I also doubt her inclusion because one game on the DS (which got crap reviews) hardly warrants a SSB inclusion.

 

[Fafnir]

I'm just saying the appeal stems from the robot's appearance.

Namco knows as well as anyone that sex sells. Kosmos' appearance is far from an accident.

Yes, it does stem from her appearance. As does almost every character. I'm sure that Link wouldn't be an appealing character if he looked like crap either.

Of course Namco knows. I'm just saying it's not the main reason why I like her character so much. Sure, she does sell herself, but that's not to say that she's not a character who went through great growth throughout the series(namely near the end...), and is already a decent character. Her design is good, and even if it were less revealing I wouldn't mind at all, in fact, ver. 3 KOS-MOS is one of my least favourites(Ver. 2 is my least favourite, do to how the artstyle screwed her over, but if they kept the ep. 1 or 3 artstyle for ver. 2, I'd imagine I'd like it alot) because it shows too much. Even if they did make her look more robotic, so long as they kept the key features of her design(the blue/white hair, the white, clean look, the red eyes, etc.), she'd still be just as good looking a character to me, so long as it came together as well as the rest of her designs.

Besides, she still looks better then ZSS, IMO.

 

[S_B]

Of course Namco knows. I'm just saying it's not the main reason why I like her character so much. Sure, she does sell herself, but that's not to say that she's not a character who went through great growth throughout the series(namely near the end...), and is already a decent character. Her design is good, and even if it were less revealing I wouldn't mind at all, in fact, ver. 3 KOS-MOS is one of my least favourites(Ver. 2 is my least favourite, do to how the artstyle screwed her over, but if they kept the ep. 1 or 3 artstyle for ver. 2, I'd imagine I'd like it alot) because it shows too much. Even if they did make her look more robotic, so long as they kept the key features of her design(the blue/white hair, the white, clean look, the red eyes, etc.), she'd still be just as good looking a character to me, so long as it came together as well as the rest of her designs.

I am, in NO way, denying her validity as a character and the depth she possesses.

I just think her outfit is a bit much for the T for teen crowd. I could see quite a few angry mothers petitioning the ESRB about her outfit I posted.

For curiosity's sake, can you find any pictures of her in a more conservative outfit?

Besides, she still looks better then ZSS, IMO.

Frankly, ZSS surprised me as well, and while her outfit is skin-tight, it is at least a functional part of her suit and doesn't reveal any actual skin.

Kosmos doesn't NEED to be wearing the outfit she's wearing, hence why I could see her in the game in a better outfit.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Actually, yes, I DO have you there, because you're still trying to compare a heroic journey, generally filled with though provoking character development, to slapping a dominatrix costume on a machine.

Yeah, because it's exactly the same idea. In a sense that it's a cliche in fiction, it is literally the same in that aspect, as I've said many time.

Then you have absolutely no grasp on how the world works. Might I suggest living in a Buddhist sanctuary to seek shelter from a society you have no hope of ever understanding (it'll also help you relieve some of that anger).

Uh, no, I have a huge grasp on how the world works. Yes, KOS-MOS was created for sex appeal, but it's not that in what makes her popular in her game, it's her character. If she was a male who appeared in some cliche male anime stereotype, instead of people saying, "That's sexy!" they would say "That's awesome!", having the same appeal level, pretty much, in that aspect. Storywise aspect, however, it would probably be about exactly the same, as it would make hardly no difference what gender she was.

There's NOTHING to explain. I don't want a female character dressed like a hooker in SSBB because I feel it cheapens the game and the characters in it (and I know Nintendo wouldn't want their family-friendly image to suffer because of something like that).

So basically your opinion is baseless and sh-tty?

 

[Fafnir]

I am, in NO way, denying her validity as a character and the depth she possesses.

I just think her outfit is a bit much for the T for teen crowd. I could see quite a few angry mothers petitioning the ESRB about her outfit I posted.

Xenosaga was T. The only thing that was questionable content was the blood that was removed from the NA and Euro versions in order to get the T rating.

For curiosity's sake, can you find any pictures of her in a more conservative outfit?

Here you are, KOS-MOS ver. 2. Not the best picture, but it gets the point across.

Frankly, ZSS surprised me as well, and while her outfit is skin-tight, it is at least a functional part of her suit and doesn't reveal any actual skin.

However, in the sake of Samus, it's out of character for her. Also, story-wise, she's slower and overall weaker outside of her powersuit, unlike how SSBB portrays her. If I wanted to get testy, I could say KOS-MOS' costume doesn't show any skin, because she doesn't have any to begin with.

Kosmos doesn't NEED to be wearing the outfit she's wearing, hence why I could see her in the game in a better outfit.

She doesn't need to be in the outfit, but she was designed that way, and radically changing her design just because it shows some skin. As I said, she manages to pull it off well, looking elegant(especially ver. 3, which pulls off elegant almost *too* well...) instead of whorish. It's all in how she presents herself, and she doesn't in an almost anti-sexual manner(if you've played the games, you'd see that).

 

[S_B]

Yeah, because it's exactly the same idea. In a sense that it's a cliche in fiction, it is literally the same in that aspect, as I've said many time.

It's not black and white. ONE cliché in fiction is not as socially redeeming as another just because they're both recurring.

That would be like saying that all books are filthy smut just because there exist romance novels that are filthy smut.

The "female robot" cliche has seldom been used in a situation where sex wasn't being sold, and anime has beat that horse to DEATH.

Can anyone find me an example of a NON-hot female robot in recent media? (other than Rosie from the Jetsons...).

Uh, no, I have a huge grasp on how the world works. Yes, KOS-MOS was created for sex appeal, but it's not that in what makes her popular in her game,

I'm not talking about IN the game, I'm talking about using an attractive female (or what looks like an attractive female) to SELL a game, like this boxart...

What's being sold here? Do I see a deep and feeling character, promising a game filled with excellent story and intrigue?

No, I see sideboob.

And I'm sorry, but I don't see a male Kosmos having the same wide appeal that the female one has. I've met too many **** geeks to believe otherwise.

So basically your opinion is baseless and sh-tty?

If that's how you feel, then our opinions can be baseless and sh*tty, together.

 

[S_B]

Xenosaga was T. The only thing that was questionable content was the blood that was removed from the NA and Euro versions in order to get the T rating.

I know, but sticking her in a game which expected to sell a lot of copies to kids 12 and below would probably be a bit much in Nintendo's eyes.

Here you are, KOS-MOS ver. 2. Not the best picture, but it gets the point across.

That does look a LOT better.

However, in the sake of Samus, it's out of character for her. Also, story-wise, she's slower and overall weaker outside of her powersuit, unlike how SSBB portrays her. If I wanted to get testy, I could say KOS-MOS' costume doesn't show any skin, because she doesn't have any to begin with.

I agree that Samus' change doesn't make much sense, and I'm hardly pleased with it, but Kosmos' appears to be a real human woman showing real skin, and no amount of, "It's ok, dad, she's a robot." would dissuade me from not letting my son look at stuff like that if he wasn't old enough.

She doesn't need to be in the outfit, but she was designed that way, and radically changing her design just because it shows some skin. As I said, she manages to pull it off well, looking elegant(especially ver. 3, which pulls off elegant almost *too* well...) instead of whorish. It's all in how she presents herself, and she doesn't in an almost anti-sexual manner(if you've played the games, you'd see that).

Snake isn't even the same Snake from Twin Snakes but from MGS2, so I don't think the outfit needs to be from a game on a Nintendo platform, meaning her conservative outfit could be used if she were included.

 

[Arteen]

You mean like Snake?

I never said Snake was fitting either. There were also extenuating circumstances, since Sakurai is friends with Kojima.

 

[Fafnir]

The "female robot" cliche has seldom been used in a situation where sex wasn't being sold, and anime has beat that horse to DEATH.

Can anyone find me an example of a NON-hot female robot in recent media? (other than Rosie from the Jetsons...).

There was the chick from Metropolis(movie). She wasn't hot. Unless your a pedophile. Besides, if you're going to go all the way to make a fembot, why not atleast make it look good. Same goes for all manbots. KOS-MOS ver. 2 manages to pull off a more conservative look then her other designs, yet still retain a sleek and somewhat 'sexy' look, so why does it HAVE to be one or the other?

I'm not talking about IN the game, I'm talking about using an attractive female (or what looks like an attractive female) to SELL a game, like this boxart...

What's being sold here? Do I see a deep and feeling character, promising a game filled with excellent story and intrigue?

No, I see sideboob.

Well, you do want a game to have appealing boxart, right? Anyone who hasn't played the past Xenosaga games(which had similar boxart without the sideboob) would need something to catch their eye in order to gain interest. Appealing character design is one of them. Look at Xenosaga one, the boxart isn't nearly as 'sex based.' Besides, I could say the same of ZSS. IMO, I don't care much for the sideboob either, but other then that, I believe that is the best KOS-MOS design, taking the 'best features' of all the others, and putting them into one design.

And I'm sorry, but I don't see a male Kosmos having the same wide appeal that the female one has. I've met too many **** geeks to believe otherwise.

As I've said, having KOS-MOS male would tear the story a new one. See the end of the game to find out.

All in all, although I do love KOS-MOS' character designs, they were not the selling point for me. It was the world and story of Xenosaga that was, as well as the strong characters.