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A few matchup and other questions

Beach

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
119
Location
Dayton, Ohio
NNID
CallMeBeach
So played my first tournament today and didn't do that bad but I found myself only using shorthop bairs, I've watched Hbox and other puffs but can't pinpoint how to mix up approaches, what are some staple approachs to throw in. Does Bair autocancel without a fastfall or shouldnI be shffl'ing it?

For the match up questions how should one edgeguard shiek? I found myself missing because of the invincibility. How should I even approach the Marth matchup? It seemed so hard to do.

And if I can't get Dreamland or FoD where should I go?
 
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chrbir5

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
30
Location
Central IL
Hbox actually plays super weird. He uses stick jump and z for most aerials and all lcanceling.
if you watch his fcreturn sets you can see it's basically both thumbs on sticks the whole time c'ept for nair, pound, rest, and *some* short hops.

the wall of pain is full hop double bair with tricky in air movement. the way to beat a lot of attacks is make your opponent whiff while floating in and out of their range then come in, or shield attacks and crouch their grabs. the reaction times need to be mad on point though, because you will get destroyed otherwise.

I don't care about stages that much, I actually do really well on fd most of the time c'ept for falco

I've never had trouble with shiek. her recovery is really linear. If it looks like she's going for ledge take it, if she's going high just read her trajectory and rest her (or at jiggs high percents fsmash/bair to kill/set up another edge guard) only at high levels will you be able to knock her out of her per-invincibility frames and you need to be already out there to do that.

if you do a bair/nair right after you get in the air it will auto cancel. actually, if you bair on the first few airborn frames you will be able to dj the iasa frames and waveland ( :0 ) but this is only really possible for claw or analog jump.

Jiggs destroys agro marth but gets wrecked by unusually patient marth if you can't shield/duck/air dance effectively
 
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Wreckarooni

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
197
Location
Midwest
On Sheik don't even wait for her when she's recovering, go out and attack her right as she is starting the Up-B. People have a very wrong misconception that she is invulnerable during the whole Up-B, but actually she can be hit out of it really easily at the beginning of the animation (18 frames of vulnerability). So altogether you have like 25 frames to follow her double jump and see when she it starting the Up-B and hit her out of it even on reaction.

Both Nair and Bair can AC on SH, it's really common to see a SH Nair forward then drift back (don't FF for either). Once you land from the Nair there are only 4 frames of lag so you can do anything out of it very fast. Or it's also very common and safe to Nair drift back from anywhere in the air since if it hits you will be too far away after the hitstun wears off and Nair's hitbox is rather big. Also don't worry about trying to hit with the strong start of Nair; the weak part is just as good, only has like 10% less knockback (just does less damage). Both parts are excellent to start combos from AC at low percents or at higher percents.
 

Mtank

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
63
Dont continually short hop bair, that'll get easy to read. You should be jumping a lot and mixing up how many times you jump each time youre in the air so it will be harder for your oppenent to guess when youre gonna hit the ground. There's many other approaches (falling nair, short-hop nair, spaced fair, etc.) that you can mix in aswell.
Shiek Matchup: Crouch a lot so they cant grab or dash attack (both should result in rest), fish for up-tilt-rests when possible. Edgeguarding as actually the easiest part of the matchup, whenever you hit her off, just grab ledge as fast as you can, and a lot of the times you can do a quick bair off ledge if you can read when theyre gonna jump/up-b (reading this with a bair almost always results in a kill because they will either be too far off w/o a jump to make it back, or they will HAVE to up onto the stage, which you can rest/fsmash). But if you cant read their jumps well, then just wait on ledge and a lot of times they will try to get their poof so it will hit you on ledge, and then they will go high. If they do this, you have to do a normal getup on stage (just push up on the control stick) and without moving just hit cstick in whichever direction theyre in.
Marth Matchup: Again, crouch a lot. Basically if he whiffs a grab while youre crouching you can just tap jump and rest. I guarantee if you hit one of those the marth will get scared and not go for as many grabs, eliminating a huge threat in the marth-jiggly matchup (Marth's grabs can lead into tippers if you dont DI perfectly). Dont use nair much in the matchup, except for nair-uptilt-rests. Backair a lot obviously, since thats your only move that can compete with marth's range. Fair out of shield can punish the majority of marth's attacks on your shield, but just poke him with the fair oos, committing too hard with fair will get you punished. Edguarding marth is kinda tricky. Here's the best thing to do imo. Knock them off then grab ledge as fast as you can. Almost as soon as you grab ledge (timing depends on how far you knocked them) hit down so you fall off ledge, then immediatly jump back fair (using ctick so that you remain facing the stage). This will catch him if he does an early double jump, and will tap him back far enough off stage so that you can regrab ledge and roll up for the stock. If marth goes low on his recovery, which most will, the backward fair will keep you hot of range for hit up-b hitbox. If he up-bs and misses you, you can usually regrab ledge before he grabs it, and he will fall to his death, OR if he up-bs onto the stage, its a free rest.
Stages depend on each matchup, and personal preference, generally stadium is puffs worst stage imo, and the rest are all situational.
 
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