A Disappointing Apex

[Freon most_dope]

Hey guys, I watched a lot of apex like most of you hopefully and I was very angry at the fact that much of the 64 bracket was on team spookys stream. I'm fairly new to 64 and am wondering if this is always the case with nationals.

 

[Shears]

Yeah more or less. We're basically second class citizens.

 

[O.o-RITH-o.O]

Was sad to have such a few amount of footage.. i hope there was another TV recording.. cuz we lost so many amazing matches like Cabelo Vs JaimeHR, that's like.. i dont even....
If LA_Smash didnt exist we would have like 20minutes of apex recorded, this is crazily disrespectful with SSB...

On a side note, last year i smacked the commentators for numerous reasons, this year we had a very enjoyable commentary IMO.. well done guys!

 

[clubbadubba]

unfortunately with the venue switch it seems like the stream schedule got thrown out the window. And if there isn't a schedule specifically saying its 64 stream time, it seems like it doesn't happen.

 

[T Brett]

^
Plus I think the independent streaming is a great idea for more coverage and should be a priority for next year. Thanks LAS for all the bonus matches and friendlies we got to watch

 

[Lord Horatio]

Yeah, the venue change killed SSB this year, but we still did better than Brawl.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Unfortunately to get more exposure the community has to put itself out there and make the public care about it

Start advertising them podcasts and vod uploads

 

[MrMarbles]

let's be honest 64 stream time only went down a tiny bit due to the venue switch

 

[SheerMadness]

Still got 10-12k people watching top 8 and the biggest ssb64 tourney ever in NA.

Fantastic exposure. APEX is only a positive for our community.

Some people are too ungrateful IMO.

 

[Sedda]

im disappointed that originally, only part of the first wave of pools was getting streamed (aside from top 8).

after the venue change, i wasnt even sure if top 8 would get streamed lol. it wouldve been better to have 64 on vgbootcamp like it was originally planned, but 10-12k viewers sounds amazing. thats around the amount of vieweres melee got at apex 2013 gfs

 

[Grass]

Hey guys, I watched a lot of apex like most of you hopefully and I was very angry at the fact that much of the 64 bracket was on team spookys stream. I'm fairly new to 64 and am wondering if this is always the case with nationals.

this is what you were upset about? Because the stream was on team spooky? lmao

Okay look, sometimes other fighting game streams will host smash related content. If you're upset about that, I think it's best you realize it's a personal problem.

 

[BananaBolts]

Unfortunately to get more exposure the community has to put itself out there and make the public care about it

Start advertising them podcasts and vod uploads

Maybe we could get a front page article of some sort. Most of the other communities check the home page.

 

[SheerMadness]

Our community has seriously unrealistic expectations when it comes to stream time. We bring, what, maybe 300-500 unique viewers AT BEST to the table?

La_Smash had a peak of like 300 during top 16 from what I saw. Best I've ever seen for a independent ssb64 stream(perhaps an Isai CT stream has bested that by a bit). As a TO how are you honestly going to justify cutting into melee top 48, for example, when they're bringing in 50-100k viewers?

It just doesn't make sense. A lot of people can't take off their biased glasses to see this though...

Be grateful for what we got, especially due to the craziness of the original venue being condemned and losing a whole day. If they hadn't lost an entire day we would have gotten even better exposure and more stream time.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Sheer's right, a streamer can't economically justify running 64 over melee when it simply does not have the public interest that melee does. Of course interest will come from more exposure, but that exposure is our job first, not a big name streamer's, and there's more ways to grow 64's following than relying on apex

 

[Darklink401]

Our community has seriously unrealistic expectations when it comes to stream time. We bring, what, maybe 300-500 unique viewers AT BEST to the table?

La_Smash had a peak of like 300 during top 16 from what I saw. Best I've ever seen for a independent ssb64 stream(perhaps an Isai CT stream has bested that by a bit). As a TO how are you honestly going to justify cutting into melee top 48, for example, when they're bringing in 50-100k viewers?

It just doesn't make sense. A lot of people can't take off their biased glasses to see this though...

Be grateful for what we got, especially due to the craziness of the original venue being condemned and losing a whole day. If they hadn't lost an entire day we would have gotten even better exposure and more stream time.

Wouldn't that number be doubled is Isai was playing? o3o

Sadly couldnt watch 64 stream due to it clashing with Wii U Doubles (or...something) but from the little I saw, seemed solid. Commentary was aight too.

 

[pidgezero_one]

It would, but imo viewership is best when it's unique viewers that might be interested in playing the game, not "isai when are you coming back to melee?!" documentary kids that don't really care about it like ppl who always show up on his stream

 

[Sedda]

well i dont know about other people, but i wasnt talking about cutting into melee top 48 or smash 4. those two are way more popular and it makes sense for them to get more stream time, but giving SF or MvC more stream time over 64 at Apex? 64 got more entrants than the other traditional fighting games last year and this year, the 64 youtube uploads for apex always get more views afterwards, etc. i dont know how much stream time those games got after the venue change, but it doesn't make sense for apex to schedule more stream time for the traditional fighting games brackets than smash 64

it's also no surprise that LA_smash would only get 300 viewers lol. not an official apex streamer and youd have to be really involved in the scene to even know where to look for unnofficial streams. That's like saying that because smash studios only gets 500 viewers, melee only brings 500 unique viewers to the table. Saying that we only have 500 unique viewers is flat out wrong, but that isnt even the point

 

[Darklink401]

It would, but imo viewership is best when it's unique viewers that might be interested in playing the game, not "isai when are you coming back to melee?!" documentary kids that don't really care about it like ppl who always show up on his stream

IDK about those guys, but I personally would be a lot more interested in watching actual matches if I had Isai to cheer for XP though I guess thats my fault for not knowing other players, lol.
Cept a couple Japanese guys whove faced Isai XP

 

[pidgezero_one]

youd have to be really involved in the scene to even know where to look for unnofficial streams.

Honestly I think this is the 64 community's biggest failing - where is our public outreach to even pull those viewers in the first place?

 

[SheerMadness]

Sedda please point to any ssb64 independent stream that has ever brought in 500+ viewers? Pretty sure you can't do it.

Our demand simply doesn't justify a ton of stream time. Were not intentionally being shafted for the hell of it.

Also FGC got 0 stream time on VGBC from what I saw, so I'm not sure what your gripe there is? They had their own stream. Do you think we should have been invited on their stream lolol?

 

[T Brett]

Just have fun and play ssb. Be involved with streaming and locals and people will slowly get interested

 

[pidgezero_one]

A lot of my viewers come from twitter, ppl should get on that ****. I have a decent social media presence and ppl from other games are constantly coming to me asking about 64, I think it's something we could benefit from having more of

 

[Sedda]

Also FGC got 0 stream time on VGBC from what I saw, so I'm not sure what your gripe there is? They had their own stream. Do you think we should have been invited on their stream lolol?

have you seen what the original stream schedule was? within the context of apex, where smash 64 has shown more support for two years straight, 64 deserves more stream time.

 

[Darklink401]

A lot of my viewers come from twitter, ppl should get on that ****. I have a decent social media presence and ppl from other games are constantly coming to me asking about 64, I think it's something we could benefit from having more of

Revival of 64 anyone?

Would be cool if a group of 64 players gathered for constant streams, with their own twitter, facebook, etc to draw huge attention.

 

[Capos]

IDK about those guys, but I personally would be a lot more interested in watching actual matches if I had Isai to cheer for XP though I guess thats my fault for not knowing other players, lol.
Cept a couple Japanese guys whove faced Isai XP

I love Isai matches, I could watch him play anyone. But there were so many great matches this weekend, and if you didn't see them because Isai wasn't playing that's your loss.

 

[BananaBolts]

I feel like the documentary kinda screwed our community to a certain degree. Unless we can break people of their current mindset and narrow point of view, 64 will remain unrecognized as an independent scene.

As of now, 64 is merely "the game that Isai plays." It needs to be more than that.

 

[Sedda]

^this seems to have always been the case though. i was only around for a few months before evo 2013 and the documentary, but the melee perception of 64 has always been that. ultimately, all that stuff has helped every smash game grow.

i personally liked it that isai wasnt at apex from a viewer standpoint. tbh im not very interested in watching tournaments that isai plays in anymore unless there are japanese and peruvian players + boom in attendance. what we got this year was a bunch of hype NA sets with no way of predicting results other than boom in 1st.

 

[MailOnSunday]

not an official apex streamer and youd have to be really involved in the scene to even know where to look for unnofficial streams.

Apex announced the crew battle on smash_la on twitter

 

[Sedda]

Apex announced the crew battle on smash_la on twitter

last minute tweet =/= official stream for apex

ive never complained about anything apex-related from last year after everyone had been ********, but i think marvel was scheduled to have their top 32 bracket streamed and we were getting half of the first wave of pools plus top 8 only

before melee was on the evo stream, they had never gotten close to 100k viewers. not even 15k by then. does that mean that melee didnt deserve much stream time at evo because it didnt have many unique viewers to start with? no.

im happy with the exposure that 64 gets at every apex, but i still dont understand why the traditional fighting games get more stream time with less entrants and at the very least less viewership on youtube.

 

[dahuterschuter]

I was looking for 64 all weekend and only wound up seeing the top 8. It's my personal Smash game and I wish it would get streamed more prominently.

 

[Kahnu]

They basically got 64, ate, it, **** it out, put it in a blender, take it out, put googly eyes on it, then throw it out the window. After that they grab little bits of the **** and 1 googly eye and smear it all over a Smash 4 disk.

 

[Hitzel]

64 doesn't have to "demand" huge viewership to justify getting stream time. As someone who doesn't know much about 64 but follows teamspooky, I stumbled upon the 64 stream and opted to watch it over the primary stream because it was so awesome.

Showing a large viewership Smash 64 is a good idea (over only doing so if they demand it) because most people don't know jack about 64 but will find it entertaining if they are shown it.

 

[Darklink401]

I love Isai matches, I could watch him play anyone. But there were so many great matches this weekend, and if you didn't see them because Isai wasn't playing that's your loss.

Scuz I haven't gotten to know any of the big players
>:

So it's hard to watch if there's no one to root for. Any suggestions? I'd like to know if there are any good players that use Link.

 

[Annex]

I'd like to know if there are any good players that use Link.

no
you'll have to get good and carry the community in that regard
thanks in advance

 

[Darklink401]

no
you'll have to get good and carry the community in that regard
thanks in advance

Like...NO ONE?
XD
Also don't look at me, I'm still getting uses to the fact I don't have a side B. o3o

EDIT:
I guess Isai used him at some tournaments but...that would defeat the purpose of actually finding a Link main to root for xD

 

[pidgezero_one]

I only know one solo link player, he knocked vwls out of losers at flaoc 2, but he's a local guy in ottawa

 

[BananaBolts]

^this seems to have always been the case though. i was only around for a few months before evo 2013 and the documentary, but the melee perception of 64 has always been that. ultimately, all that stuff has helped every smash game grow.

Yeah, Melee players tend to be of that mindset. I don't think that the documentary did anything to directly benefit smash 64. Then again, Melee was the focus of the documentary.

It's great that people think so highly of Isai but it puts us in such a bad position because people won't let themselves watch anything that isn't Isai or even branch out. Even Darklink401 has no knowledge of some of the top players and he's a part of this community. Sure, people will watch matches when they're uploaded to VGBC or they'll watch on stream but it almost never gets past that. Why? Because people's interest is outweighed by inconvenience.

Smash 64 is way too inconvenient for most people. Interest vs Convenience

Take me, for instance. I already had Brawl but I didn't want to play PM because I thought that I was going to need to hack my Wii. I later found out that I could conveniently download it onto an SD card. If I were interested enough in the first place, I would have just hacked my Wii or done the research to figure out if there was an alternative. I would not have started playing PM if I didn't have such a convenient way to play.

Most people aren't willing to dish out money for a console, the game, and controllers to play 64. Most people don't even know that 64 netplay is existent. If we want growth, then we need to start facilitating it.

 

[Darklink401]

I only know one solo link player, he knocked vwls out of losers at flaoc 2, but he's a local guy in ottawa

Oh? whats he called? o3o

@ BananaBolts - To be fair, I only DID just get recently itnerested in Smash 64....and it WAS cuz of the Smash Documentary....(or...I guess, Isai XD)


I can definitely see where the problem is with people only wanting Isai though.

isn't Boom like, just as good as Isai, if not better?

 

[Annex]

Like...NO ONE?

I main link and dk but I'm bad

isn't Boom like, just as good as Isai, if not better?

no
he's very good though

 

[BananaBolts]

he's very good though

Boom makes my panties wet. sugoi :3