A Chance At Redemption?

[Falzc0]

Sup yall. Been reading about how Brawl is going to steadily decline due to its lack of depth, but I just wanted to ask:

Can't this be fixed by WiFi? Wii gets normal updates, and if Nintendo just updated Brawl to take off the stupid shiz, Brawl could be moving back to the right place.

I don't own a Wii myself, so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Zycor]

Lack of depth? you've gotta be kidding me, I seriously need to go back in time and see how much depth Melee had when it just came out... Brawl still hasn't even been out a month yet, it took YEARS to find Wavedashing and other advanced techniques, it's not like they're just going to show up at your doorstep the 2nd day the game is out...

 

[omfgomfg]

Lack of depth? you've gotta be kidding me, I seriously need to go back in time and see how much depth Melee had when it just came out... Brawl still hasn't even been out a month yet, it took YEARS to find Wavedashing and other advanced techniques, it's not like they're just going to show up at your doorstep the 2nd day the game is out...

technology moves at an exponential rate.
therefore what it took years to figure out in melee should technically only take weeks for brawl, if not days. nothing has been found yet, and a huge population of competitive smashers has been searching. your words are void.

 

[Toadster5]

It COULD happen but it won't because they don't care about the tournament scene.

 

[Alphanumber]

Wasn't wavedashing found out the April after the release of Melee? That's less than a year.

 

[Ash Hol]

technology moves at an exponential rate.
therefore what it took years to figure out in melee should technically only take weeks for brawl, if not days. nothing has been found yet, and a huge population of competitive smashers has been searching. your words are void.

ummmm humans that figure stuff out isnt "technology". though there are lots of people playing this game, there are always things yet to be discovered. so both be true, all be void
oh and brawl is melee 2.0 it is a perfect game. everyone on here expected too much of the game. everyone expected no change but 30 more characters and a storyline and flawless wifi. people should realize physics overhauls, everyone stupid glitch techniques removed and new...everything. EVERYONE GET OVER IT. IT IS HOW IT IS. everyone who hates brawl should get off this forum.
you all wanted the world, you just got a continent. dont complain.

 

[Deleted member]

Wasn't wavedashing found out the April after the release of Melee? That's less than a year.

I think it was 3 years. Not completely certain but i know it was longer than that.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

They could get rid of tripping if they wanted to, yeah. But they don't want to.

 

[Rhubarbo]

Lack of depth? you've gotta be kidding me, I seriously need to go back in time and see how much depth Melee had when it just came out... Brawl still hasn't even been out a month yet, it took YEARS to find Wavedashing and other advanced techniques, it's not like they're just going to show up at your doorstep the 2nd day the game is out...

Lol, this where I just sit back and laugh. You are a scrub. You view all of Melee's techs as a product of wavedashing and nothing more. You assume that competitive players play Melee with nothing but wavedashing in mind. You never got good at Melee, but you picked up Brawl and are now trying to enter the competitive scene.

If you ever trained to become really competitive at Melee and master it like many are trying to master Brawl, you'd understand how Brawl has much less depth and is much less exciting at times.

 

[Rhubarbo]

I think it was 3 years. Not completely certain but i know it was longer than that.

Wavedashing: Found 1-3 months after Brawl was out.
2001, Melee Community: 1/5 of Brawl community now

Brawl has peaked in it's meta game. All there is left is to determine the tiers and that's it. Combos are dead. No matter what new skills that come up, combos are still dead. Combos were fun. Without combos, which are fun, there is LESS fun in Brawl. That is why people dis-like Brawl.

Odds are that people that defend Brawl can't string together a combo in Melee at all!

 

[Repulse X]

everyone expected no change but 30 more characters and a storyline and flawless wifi.

i agree with everything you said...but flawless is reeeeeeallllllly an overstatement

 

[Repulse X]

Odds are that people that defend Brawl can't string together a combo in Melee at all!

Good thing Brawl isnt Melee

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Brawl has peaked in it's meta game. All there is left is to determine the tiers and that's it.

Haha, that's a good one, but it's not April 1st anymore

 

[Rhubarbo]

When I see Brawl have a combo vid that is up to par with a Melee one I will say it's a better game. Since that is impossible, I stand by my opinion.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

And I will stand as far away from it as possible.

 

[pirkid]

I'm sorry, but I'm not got play Melee when I have Brawl.

It's quite pathetic. People lined up for Brawl expected a whole new level of gameplay similar o their beloved Melee, and were shot down. Now they want to go back.

Bullshat. After about a year everyone will be playing Brawl.

People are way too impatient. They want competitive Brawl now, right here, we've waited long enough.
Well, go play Melee if you want, but I'l lbe playing Brawl for a really long time, no matter what.

I am aware of the arrogance in my post, I'm just a bit fired up from all the Brawl hate. Pisses me off when people say the same thing over and over AND OVER again. Your not accomplishing anything by posting hate threads and then going back to your Gamecube.

Oh, right. Watch this. Because I defend Brawl, I automatically suck at Melee.
Well, if your minuscule linear thought method points you towards that conclusion, and you post to make yourself feel better with a one-liner, then up yours.

 

[Justin Wiles]

I love how the haters whine about the lack of combos in Brawl as if Melee's meta-game was BUILT around combos. Brawl comes out, and all of a sudden Melee is all about combos! Where have I been the last 7 years?

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

I love how the haters whine about the lack of combos in Brawl as if Melee's meta-game was BUILT around combos. Brawl comes out, and all of a sudden Melee is all about combos! Where have I been the last 7 years?

Not playing Capcom fighters apparently. xp

 

[DeliciousCake]

Sup yall. Been reading about how Brawl is going to steadily decline due to its lack of depth, but I just wanted to ask:

Can't this be fixed by WiFi? Wii gets normal updates, and if Nintendo just updated Brawl to take off the stupid shiz, Brawl could be moving back to the right place.

I don't own a Wii myself, so correct me if I'm wrong.

It would help if you had actually read all of the meaningless threads about people asking whether or not Brawl could get updates via Wifi at all. Short answer: no.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

..Oh, right. Watch this. Because I defend Brawl, I automatically suck at Melee...

I've wondered about this, too. Amongst all of this Brawl vs. Melee talk it seems like the people who like Melee more really like to attack the skill level of the people who like Brawl.

Is it that the Melee pros feel like they don't have the upper hand anymore? Surely
the pros aren't dead weight now that the previous ATs are gone. There's more to
smash than ATs. And as for combos? Now you just have to be skilled at landing single blows,
rather than stringing them together. Big deal.

Since when do you like a game only because you are good at it?
Since when do you automatically hate a game if you are not good at it?

If it's only fun for any given person when they win, then they probably need to be more mature about playing games in the first place.

I think it's safe to say that both parties enjoy both games. There's no purpose in telling people they suck at a game.

Here's to hoping that these debates end soon.
*hypocritical for posting in the argument*
...oops.

 

[LouisLeGros]

I think I'm with 56k, I'm not standing near this.


Then I think it has been said enough times, no updates via download... pretty much everything in this thread has been said already.

 

[Rhubarbo]

I've wondered about this, too. Amongst all of this Brawl vs. Melee talk it seems like the people who like Melee more really like to attack the skill level of the people who like Brawl.

Is it that the Melee pros feel like they don't have the upper hand anymore? Surely
the pros aren't dead weight now that the previous ATs are gone. There's more to
smash than ATs. And as for combos? Now you just have to be skilled at landing single blows,
rather than stringing them together. Big deal.

Since when do you like a game only because you are good at it?
Since when do you automatically hate a game if you are not good at it?

If it's only fun for any given person when they win, then they probably need to be more mature about playing games in the first place.

I think it's safe to say that both parties enjoy both games. There's no purpose in telling people they suck at a game.

Here's to hoping that these debates end soon.
*hypocritical for posting in the argument*
...oops.

Yeah, you know nothing about Melee. You're one of those people that got into the Brawl hype and is now trying to play Smash competitively with the latest addition in the series. If you took the time to learn Melee to it's fullest, to learn how to improvise combos, DI out of them, properly edgeguard, properly edgehog, and properly intercept, you'd know that Melee is a better, deeper game! Your post count says it all!

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Yeah, you know nothing about Melee. You're one of those people that got into the Brawl hype and is now trying to play Smash competitively with the latest addition in the series. If you took the time to learn Melee to it's fullest, to learn how to improvise combos, DI out of them, properly edgeguard, properly edgehog, and properly intercept, you'd know that Melee is a better, deeper game! Your post count says it all!

You are the biggest idiot i've ever seen post on these forums...well almost..
Honestly, when people have a different mindset about Brawl, and they enjoy it why must you rip on them? Why must you constantly stuff your opinion down their throat? "You know NOTHING ABOUT MELEE! OMG WTF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF A BETTER GAMEZ IT ISZ! IT'S SO DEEPER!!"

Honestly I don't think they give a **** if it's "deeper" just get off their backs and let them have fun, if they just entered compeitively so what!? I Am, I never played competetive melee and I have been playing it for years, that doesn't mean I don't know anything about Melee.

Honestly your post reeks of stupidity.

I personally don't give a **** if Melee "is better" To you, I enjoy brawl alot more than Melee, also online I can play with other people in Brawl which I couldn't do very much with Melee. And don't give me that "Brawl's Online is a joke LulZ" "SO LAGGY!" I get very little to no lag, With anyone works fine for me as do with friends. I am enjoying Brawl much more than I ever did Melee, it's a new experince, a new game, and loads of fun.
Go ahead call me a "scrub" or whatever the hell you want, your flames will go unheard.

In short, quit being a stuck up *******.

 

[Justin Wiles]

Not playing Capcom fighters apparently. xp

I played alot GG for awhile, but noone knew what it was, and didn't want to play it with me...

It seems to me that combos were a big part of Melee, but no more than the rock/paper/scissors aspect of priority, and just plainly having good timing and quick thinking. I just find it funny that people that talk about how bad Brawl is always say "there are no combos" like it's the ONLY THING Melee had going for it.

 

[Bli33ard]

Wow. I'm still waiting for Brawl over here, but from what I'm seeing is, I have mixed feelings about the game. I'll love it, because of the Smash format, on the other hand I really am worried that this might not be what I was hoping for.

 

[S623]

No. Updates via Wi-Fi=Nonexistent.

To address the issue at hand: Play whichever one you like more. Stop *****ing about the other game. Melee was a great game in it's own way, Brawl is a great game in it's own way. Melee has a competitive scene, Brawl will grow a competitive scene (albeit a significantly smaller one).

They're like coffee (Melee) and tea (Brawl). Both are good on their own. To enjoy coffee to it's fullest (ISPO) you need to add sugar & cream (ATs). The flavors (players/characters) of coffee don't vary much, but it's very delightful regardless. Some people like to add sugar & cream to their tea, which can make it fun in a different manner. The flavors vary greatly, and that's how some like it.

 

[Bocom]

nothing has been found yet, and a huge population of competitive smashers has been searching. your words are void.

Nothing?! Are you daft? There are lots of stuff that's been found!

Reverse grabbing, RAR, Glide toss and DLX Canceling are some examples of what's been found. They aren't exactly nothing!

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Not to mention the dozens upon dozens of character-specific techniques...most of us aren't aware of them because they don't apply to our character.

Brawl will grow a competitive scene (albeit a significantly smaller one).

I agree with everything else you said, but Brawl already has an enormous competitive scene, possibly bigger than Melee's was at it's peak. Yes it may not be quite as advanced and organized, but there is an insane number of new smashers joining the competitive scene now that Brawl is here.

 

[Intercept]

I've wondered about this, too. Amongst all of this Brawl vs. Melee talk it seems like the people who like Melee more really like to attack the skill level of the people who like Brawl.

Is it that the Melee pros feel like they don't have the upper hand anymore? Surely
the pros aren't dead weight now that the previous ATs are gone. There's more to
smash than ATs. And as for combos? Now you just have to be skilled at landing single blows,
rather than stringing them together. Big deal.

Actually, that last part is a BIG DEAL. Quick movement techniques and combo ability made Melee a very fast, offensive game. As you said, now you just need to be skilled at landing single blows. Which means, people are going to be waiting for openings most of the time. Which means, they're going to be playing incredibly defensively and using lots of projectiles. So, now, we have a slow defensive game instead of a fast offensive game. It's quite a drastic change.

 

[S623]

Not to mention the dozens upon dozens of character-specific techniques...most of us aren't aware of them because they don't apply to our character.

I agree with everything else you said, but Brawl already has an enormous competitive scene, possibly bigger than Melee's was at it's peak. Yes it may not be quite as advanced and organized, but there is an insane number of new smashers joining the competitive scene now that Brawl is here.

Oh yeah. I meant a significantly smaller organized, competitive scene.

 

[Cookiez]

Nothing?! Are you daft? There are lots of stuff that's been found!

Reverse grabbing, RAR, Glide toss and DLX Canceling are some examples of what's been found. They aren't exactly nothing!

Nothing that will change Brawls extremely campy metagame one bit.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

Yeah, you know nothing about Melee.

Where did you gather such an idea? I only said that Melee had ATs that are not in
Brawl, and that Melee was more combo-oriented in nature. I don't think either of
those qualify me as "knowing nothing". Sorry that you feel differently.

You're one of those people that got into the Brawl hype and is now trying to play Smash competitively with the latest addition in the series.

A true statement. I don't see what is so shameful about that. You do make it sound like I haven't played the other games, which isn't true. I've played since the release of The Original Smash, just to clarify that.

I'm not getting in on this because I think I can be competitive in this new game. I'm stepping up because I want to be competitive. I was a little behind the curve in Melee, but so what? It doesn't mean that I am incapable of learning whatever Brawl has to offer. I was already in the midst of doing that for Melee. Which game I play is irrelevant in this regard.

If you took the time to learn Melee to it's fullest, to learn how to improvise combos, DI out of them, properly edgeguard, properly edgehog, and properly intercept, you'd know that Melee is a better, deeper game!

Yeah, I clearly don't know how to do any of that stuff, since I like Brawl so much. I've been on the delivering (and receiving) end of all of these things. I know what they are and I know what they contribute to Melee. I do know that Melee is a deeper game (at the moment). Also, people have their own opinions about which game is better. There's nothing wrong with having one, and telling people in an intelligent, calm fashion why you feel the way you do.

Your post count says it all!

My feelings are hurt so deeply and completely by your words. *bows to your 1000+ posts*

Honestly, when people have a different mindset about Brawl, and they enjoy it why must you rip on them? Why must you constantly stuff your opinion down their throat? "You know NOTHING ABOUT MELEE! OMG WTF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF A BETTER GAMEZ IT ISZ! IT'S SO DEEPER!!"

Honestly I don't think they give a **** if it's "deeper" just get off their backs and let them have fun, if they just entered compeitively so what!?

Thank you, DarkShadowRage. I think people lose sight of this all too often.

They're like coffee (Melee) and tea (Brawl). Both are good on their own. To enjoy coffee to it's fullest (ISPO) you need to add sugar & cream (ATs). The flavors (players/characters) of coffee don't vary much, but it's very delightful regardless. Some people like to add sugar & cream to their tea, which can make it fun in a different manner. The flavors vary greatly, and that's how some like it.

Best...Analogy....Ever. Sorry, I just had to compliment this amazing train of thought.

Actually, that last part is a BIG DEAL. Quick movement techniques and combo ability made Melee a very fast, offensive game. As you said, now you just need to be skilled at landing single blows. Which means, people are going to be waiting for openings most of the time. Which means, they're going to be playing incredibly defensively and using lots of projectiles. So, now, we have a slow defensive game instead of a fast offensive game. It's quite a drastic change.

Sorry, I didn't really elaborate on my statement. It is a drastic change and a big deal.
What I meant to get across was that Brawl is not necessarily shot or skill-less without a big emphasis on combos. You are absolutely right.

 

[Falzc0]

Yea, sorry stirring up such a debate, and thanks for the reply that WiFi cannot change Brawl.

For this debate, as personal example, I go to my local gamestore with Brawl, and quite frankly, I own. Dunno if I'm the biggest noob on the block in a neighborhood of noobs. I was decent in Melee but with Brawl I play better. This might mean Brawl has been newbified *cough reverse ledge grabbing cough*, but I find it as a new experience from Melee.

I just want to get into the depth (no matter how deep it is) of Brawl and pick up from there. I respect Melee players and their awesome combos, it goes for fun vids, but Brawl is just simply more graphically appealing to me.

Have a good one ya'll, thanks for the replies.

 

[derpinsmash]

Lack of depth? you've gotta be kidding me, I seriously need to go back in time and see how much depth Melee had when it just came out... Brawl still hasn't even been out a month yet, it took YEARS to find Wavedashing and other advanced techniques, it's not like they're just going to show up at your doorstep the 2nd day the game is out...

you'd be disappointed. As far as I know the only advanced tech in SSB64 was the Z-cancel, which was in melee as the L-cancel. so it was like "**** man this game is a faster SSB64 + a **** load of new things just waiting to be discovered!" melee was an improvement to SSB64 in every possible way.