• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

A beginner's guide to BANNING...

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
People throw the word "ban" around ridiculously easily these days. Even top level players seem to be ready to cry for a ban at a moment's notice.

So in the interest of quieting the whole "BAN HYPE" crowd down a notch, let's examine WHEN and WHY something is banned from competitive play...

Banning 101

Q: What is a competitive "ban"?

A ban is simply when some aspect/feature of the game is prohibited from competitive play.

Q: Why would something be banned?

Any aspect of the game which is thought to not be conducive to determining the winner based primarily upon the skill of the players is considered bad for competitive play and will likely be banned.

Such things include items that will spawn randomly and decide the winner of the match by random chance or stages with hazards that add too much randomness to the game or stages that promote degenerate gameplay (such as camping near a walk off in the hopes of getting a grab for an easy kill).

Q: How often are things like characters banned?

Almost never. The last character that was banned from some tournaments was Metaknight in Brawl, but despite his amazing technical prowess, even he wasn't banned from many tournaments.

Q: When do we know a character should be banned?

A character should only be banned in any fighting game (not just SSB) after lengthy testing, labbing, trial and error and after that character has made it clear that they stand a ridiculously high chance of winning most tournaments.

Basically, a character is only ever banned when it's clear that they truly are far too technically powerful and the banning of said character would benefit the competitive game more than than it would to keep the character in tournaments.

Q: Are there any characters/customs that need banning in SSB4?

As of now, no.

Even the best characters in SSB4 don't have as much of a gap between them and the lower tiers as MK did with nearly everyone else in Brawl. Furthermore, none of the custom moves have produced a setup that reliably takes or even places well in tournaments.

Q: Why do we wait so long to decide that something should be banned?

We wait as long as we do because the metagame for any fighting game takes a LONG time to develop. There are so many factors that influence a tier list, and individual player skill is certainly one of them. It took a substantial amount of time before anyone realized Marth's true potential in Melee, for example.

Furthermore, throughout the development of a metagame, strategies change dramatically. Play-styles that people at first believed were impossible to beat are regularly countered as the meta develops and new, better play-styles rise to replace them.

In addition, with a roster as large as that of SSB4, it will take even longer until we've determined and tapped the true potential of every character in the game.

In conclusion...

"Ban" is a word thrown around far too easily. Given the years of development it takes for the average metagame to mature, the word "ban" itself should almost be considered taboo.

Thus far, there has been nothing seen in SSB4 that even begins to warrant a ban and, barring some more bizarre glitches being introduced with balance patches, it's extremely unlikely that there ever will be.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
6,000
Location
New Jersey
NNID
almostlegendary
3DS FC
1349-7081-6691
Warning Received
*sigh* I don't believe it's appropriate for you to play off of Benghazi where four Americans were left to die by the US government. Hopefully a mod will infract you for your offensive post and change the name of the thread.
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
"Ability to win" =/= as being worthy of banning.
"broken" doesn't mean "wins tournaments easily" either.

Furthermore your perceived gap between cast characters in Smash 4 statistically contradicts Diddy's current tournament data if you're to make the analogy to Brawl.
Waiting for there to be objective/definitive proof of something being "technically broken" is so wrong and outdated a mindset that we know it kills games before we can reach that conclusion. There will always be "we need more time" or "well X thing doesn't have issues, hence it's fine!".

Hence your "why/when should something be banned" in my mind, and in the mind of a majority of direct stakeholders with the interest's of smash 4's longevity in mind is... just wrong. It's been almost a decade since Sirlin gave us one discourse to base things on and since then a lot of things have changed.
 
Last edited:

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
Hence your "why/when should something be banned" in my mind, and in the mind of a majority of direct stakeholders with the interest's of smash 4's longevity in mind is... just wrong. It's been almost a decade since Sirlin gave us one discourse to base things on and since then a lot of things have changed.
So how quickly should a character be banned? A month? 3 months? 6?

We also receive regular balance patches, meaning that the meta is going to be shifted out from under us and FOTM characters will be a very real thing for duration of SSB4's life.

The words of wisdom in the past have always been "let the meta play out" because banning a character from major tournaments closes a door that's very difficult to reopen.
 
Last edited:

Pyr

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
1,053
Location
Somewhere Green
So how quickly should a character be banned? A month? 3 months? 6?

We also receive regular balance patches, meaning that the meta is going to be shifted out from under us and FOTM characters will be a very real thing for duration of SSB4's life.

The words of wisdom in the past have always been "let the meta play out" because banning a character from major tournaments closes a door that's very difficult to reopen.
In my opinion, it's 1 year of complete dominance before a ban based on a character that stands above the rest. For example, this is one of those sort of performances back in the Brawl days: http://smashboards.com/threads/whobo-results-and-the-conflict-at-hand.230309/

These results, and results resembling them, spawned the great Ban Metaknight threads of 2008/2009. It was at this point in time when the Ban was needed to help save Brawl. If something is to be banned early on, a year seems like the best benchmark when it's MK-level dominant.

Looking at the results from weeklies, regionals, and the like, no character boasts this level of dominance in S4 yet.

On a side note, the Ban MK threads are hilarious in retrospect.
 
Last edited:

Raijinken

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
4,420
Location
Durham, NC
With the presence of balance patches, it is unreasonable to push for any character bans, when a few months later it could be a moot point with regards to any given character. Bans should only be remotely entertained once the state of the game is confirmed to be static.
 

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
With the presence of balance patches, it is unreasonable to push for any character bans, when a few months later it could be a moot point with regards to any given character. Bans should only be remotely entertained once the state of the game is confirmed to be static.
Yup, and it needs to be noted that even CUSTOMS have seen balancing in patches.

*sigh* I don't believe it's appropriate for you to play off of Benghazi where four Americans were left to die by the US government. Hopefully a mod will infract you for your offensive post and change the name of the thread.
Truth is, I actually went back and tried to edit it out because I thought it may have been a bit much, but you can't edit titles after the fact.

Mods did it for me, anyway.
 
Last edited:

T0MMY

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
3,349
Location
Oregon
"Ability to win" =/= as being worthy of banning.
"broken" doesn't mean "wins tournaments easily" either.

Furthermore your perceived gap between cast characters in Smash 4 statistically contradicts Diddy's current tournament data if you're to make the analogy to Brawl.
Waiting for there to be objective/definitive proof of something being "technically broken" is so wrong and outdated a mindset that we know it kills games before we can reach that conclusion. There will always be "we need more time" or "well X thing doesn't have issues, hence it's fine!".

Hence your "why/when should something be banned" in my mind, and in the mind of a majority of direct stakeholders with the interest's of smash 4's longevity in mind is... just wrong. It's been almost a decade since Sirlin gave us one discourse to base things on and since then a lot of things have changed.
If you are giving a fair account then it should be noted that Sirlin has updated his writings multiple times over the years... and it hasn't been due to any change in philosophy of competitive fighters - that stuff has stayed solid.

Feel free to disagree with the guy about playing a game to its potential and not being a scrub about things (I don't), but arguing about the times holds about as well as saying the law of the land should allow for murder since it's been all too long since the law was written against it.
 

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
Fortunately, I don't think this will be an issue because, as long as Nintendo keeps balancing with each DLC patch, we'll be fine.

Unless they introduce game-breaking bugs that they don't bother to patch until next DLC, I mean...
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom