3 features that should be in SSB4...

[lordvaati]

yesterday while watching the Q?A Panel for Playstation all-stars at EVO, they brought up 3 major features that caught my attention, as I feel they would be really important additions to Smash as well.

-Infinite Prevention System. popularized by Skullgirls, Superbot confirmed that their game will have a IPS as well. now this system in Smash would be a GODSEND. no longer would we have to manually make a 300% chaingrab limit, the game will do it for us(like break the infinite at 50% or something.) no longer would innocent stages like Corneria or Fourside be banned because of wall grabs or waveshine bulls***. this would change our game for the better if we got this in SSB4.

-Rival Battles. I remember when we discussed this for a bit in the old SSB4 topic, and I never thought it could happen in the end. however, after seeing the first revealed Rival battle trailer for PAS(Heihachi vs. Toro) it was both hilarious and awesome, catching that fun vibe that will probably be shown in other rival battle trailers. Imagine if Smash had this-Mario vs. Sonic, anyone?

here's an example of what a Rival intro in Smash could look like.


Online Monitoring. Superbot apparently has it planned they will monitor any online match that happens and from the match data check to make sure if there are any game-breaking bugs or infinite exploits that get around the IPS. a feature like this is a no-brainer for Smash, so Nintendo can get any glitches immediately fixed so it doesn't break the game (like Maka Wuhu did).

 

[El Duderino]

From my understanding, Playstation All-Stars is adding an artificial combo limit where you get a free pass after so many hits. It's more there to prevent excessively long combos because moves are being designed to successively chain into each-other.

But PSASBR doesn't have a % system or DI that more naturally address that potential problem. What's left to fix in Smash are special cases. I'd much rather they were addressed on an individual basis instead of introducing yet another artificial road block.

 

[Big-Cat]

An IPS makes sense to prevent lockdowns like Falco's laser on DK than combos due to the reasons El Duderino mentioned. What might be worth looking into is gravity scaling.

Of course this all depends on what they intend to do with the game. IMO, hit stun scaling should be avoided. I don't like the idea of altering tempo in the middle of a combo like that.

 

[SmashChu]

From my understanding, Playstation All-Stars is adding an artificial combo limit where you get a free pass after so many hits. It's more there to prevent excessively long combos because moves are being designed to successively chain into each-other.

But PSASBR doesn't have a % system or DI that more naturally address that potential problem. What's left to fix in Smash are special cases. I'd much rather they were addressed on an individual basis instead of introducing yet another artificial road block.

This man brings up a good point. Actually, your third point already address this problem anyway. Continuous balance will actually fix most infinites. This happens is a lot of games with no constant balance because designers aren't perfect.

No need for #2. It's addition would be marginal at best.

 

[Frostwraith]

I like all three ideas. monitoring online would help keeping the game free of glitches and other such exploits. an infinite combo prevention is essential in any fighting game to avoid game breaking characters.

the Rival fight is interesting as well. some would be obvious: Kirby's rival battle would be against Meta Knight and vice versa. Or Link vs. Ganondorf, Mario vs. Bowser (DK or Wario would work too) or Fox vs. Wolf.

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

I don't like the idea of arbitrarily restricting infinite combos... yes we already do that but that's because WE'VE played the game and have decided OURSELVES what is and isn't allowed. I don't feel the developers should be the ones to restrict us like that, if I want to be cheap in friendly matches I should be able to.

 

[Pyra]

I don't like the idea of arbitrarily restricting infinite combos... yes we already do that but that's because WE'VE played the game and have decided OURSELVES what is and isn't allowed. I don't feel the developers should be the ones to restrict us like that, if I want to be cheap in friendly matches I should be able to.

I just had a sudden flashback to previous conversations about government involvement in certain areas. Something seems awfully similar here.

That being said, I agree. I'm no pro, though. I don't know how an "expert" would feel about that.

I wouldn't mind the Rival battle thing though. Minor change, but nothing hurt.

 

[DarkSouls]

I think one of the reasons IPS works so well in Skullgirls is that the game already has a very fluid and intuitive combo system that still allows tons of creativity, and IPS prevents that system from getting out of hand (And allows generally more creativity than simple hitstun decay). There's still plenty of freedom with what you can do.

Unless a fairly complex and rewarding combo system is added to the next Smash Bros, I don't see the point of IPS over simple patches to weed out infinites.

 

[DakotaBonez]

I love how all yall are talking bout IPS, I mean did Yall even SEE that video!?! Were those people f#$%ing robots!?! I am in shock and F#$%ing awe after viewing that. I mean holy SH-
Dude.. How the....
The only thing I can think of is they were playing on slowmo but sped the video up but even then those people got launched around by bombs in sudden death mode and recovered from it about 20 times! They were catching bombs midair and throwin em at each other whilst the world catches fire around them! And that intro was friggin epic!
Oh wait the title says TAS...lemme just google that...Tool Assisted Speedrun...
aww the magic is ruined! Still amazing though and that intro was really great!


Phew back on topic. Online monitoring for hacks is a must. As for IPS, Nintendo can just patch the game via the wonder that is the internet. But after working on a project as big as SM4SH they'll probably not want anything to do with the game for a year, so I'm not totally against an IPS. No wait I AM totally against IPS! If yer just playing with yer pals of course ya wanna screw em over sometimes. And rival intro's would be a nice addition but I'd rather just have the Camera zoom in on each player as they come in like in SSB64. And can they move that giant text that says READY GO! It blocks the view of where you are. Move it HIGHER!

 

[Pyra]

I love how all yall are talking bout IPS, I mean did Yall even SEE that video!?! Were those people f#$%ing robots!?! I am in shock and F#$%ing awe after viewing that. I mean holy SH-
Dude.. How the...
The only thing I can think of is they were playing on slowmo but sped the video up but even then those people got launched around by bombs in sudden death mode and recovered from it about 20 times! They were catching bombs midair and throwin em at each other whilst the world catches fire around them! And that intro was friggin epic!

At the risk of derailing the thread, when I watched that video...
Well, that was the most amount of times I've said "wait what" during a duration of a smash video.

 

[Mypantisgone]

And they did the most epic TIE in the Universes History.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Skullgirls popularized an infinite prevention system? Didn't EFZ and IaMP have a hitstun bar, SWR and Soku have a limit guage, and BB have hitstun proration long before Skullgirls was even past the concept phase?

What Smash needs is a more intuitive shielding mechanic. Smaller shields and more focus on Shield Angling/Shield DI on hit to get specific defensive options instead of the static defense present in the series.

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

I think one of the reasons IPS works so well in Skullgirls is that the game already has a very fluid and intuitive combo system that still allows tons of creativity, and IPS prevents that system from getting out of hand (And allows generally more creativity than simple hitstun decay). There's still plenty of freedom with what you can do.

Unless a fairly complex and rewarding combo system is added to the next Smash Bros, I don't see the point of IPS over simple patches to weed out infinites.

No TAS stands for They're All Sakurai

Don't be fooled, Sakurai is just playing both characters again.

 

[John12346]

-Rival Battles.
here's an example of what a Rival intro in Smash could look like.

If memory serves, there were examples like this in the SSE cutscenes as well. Mario vs. Kirby, Mario vs. Link, Mario/Pit vs Link/Yoshi, Lucario vs Meta Knight, Lucas/Pokemon Trainer vs. Wario, etc.

Rival battles would definitely be cool to see, though, for sure.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Rival battles in classic mode would be awesome. Now to speculate, who would be rivals with each other? Mario vs Wario is obvious, so is Fox vs Wolf. Could some characters share rivals?

 

[ItsSilverLPs]

Rival battles in classic mode would be awesome. Now to speculate, who would be rivals with each other? Mario vs Wario is obvious, so is Fox vs Wolf. Could some characters share rivals?

Some ideas I have:
Mario VS Sonic
Mario VS Luigi
Mario VS Bowser
Link VS Toon Link
Link VS Ganondorf
Zelda/Sheik VS Ganondorf
Sonic VS Cap. Falcon (both are the fastest)
Fox VS Falco
Kirby VS Meta Knight
Kirby VS Dedede

I still don't have ideas for other characters... Maybe they should put rival intros for characters of the same franchise, or for Nintendo old characters of different franchises, like Pit and Ice Climbers.

 

[Pyra]

Maybe there could also be a special intro for ditto matches, or in the context of the subject, rival matches in which the rivals are the same character.

Also an option to turn those off. Ehehe.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'm not familiar with the Skullgirls way.

But there's for example Tatsunoko vs Capcom, in which you press a bunch of buttons at the same time, and the character "breaks free". Now, in this game, this can only be used once.. but it's a neat idea either way.


There's also TMNT Smash Up, where characters caught in an infinite will get teleported upwards, and out of harm's way (unless this was foreseen, and a trap awaits him for further punishment). It's usually after about 5 hits with the same moves.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm not familiar with the Skullgirls way.

The IPS is a program in the game that reads the inputs of attacks in a combo. If it detects a pattern, the attacked opponent will have red sparks on them and the opponent can press any button to break free, just like the burst in TvC. In the current version, standing and crouching attacks on the same button are considered separate attacks, but this has been changed to where they are viewed the same thus making the IPS more strict on combos.

The IPS does not apply to assist characters.

 

[shinhed-echi]

The IPS is a program in the game that reads the inputs of attacks in a combo. If it detects a pattern, the attacked opponent will have red sparks on them and the opponent can press any button to break free, just like the burst in TvC. In the current version, standing and crouching attacks on the same button are considered separate attacks, but this has been changed to where they are viewed the same thus making the IPS more strict on combos.

The IPS does not apply to assist characters.

Thanks for clarifying that.

I wonder if that is just one more obstacle for people looking for infinites, though. They might come with ways to pull off insanely long button combinations that end up in an infinite... that prevents this system from detecting a solid pattern.

 

[Carlo_H.Luz]

- 4 Pro Controllers, 2 Gamepads (Total 6 players all vs all)
- 4 Pro Controllers 2 Gamepads (3 vs 3, 4 Pro controller guys fighting 2 vs 2. And the Wii U gamepads guys throwing items, changing things of the stage, trying to get damage healers and helping to perform double Smash Finals with their respective teams)
- Super Smash Kart (No explanation needed) O.O Nintendo: The money in my wallet is waiting for this

 

[Aguki90]

Mostly of this is SMASH 4 get a excellent online 24 hours and I love it.

I like the tree Idea Especially the RIVAL battles Like Mario vs. Bowser, Zelda vs. Peach or even Genesect vs. Mewtwo I mean "Lucario vs. Mewtwo". Need a cool cutscen e but I think Sakurai is no adding cutscene and this Rival Vibe...

In Smash 4 I want a Online Profile EVEN better in brawl like Crazy Icons or even put one of the photo during battle in a comment, Battle Request, Better friend Request, Better and longer Status and more silly mesage to the game like when you do the same taunt two times the message are differents or someting like that.

 

[LancerStaff]

The problem with patching is that somebody has to do it for YEARS. It took some eight years for the Masterhand glich to be discovered. I don't see Nintendo patching SSB4 past two years. So I'd rather have a fallback instead of waiting for a patch that might not come.

 

[D-idara]

Skullgirls popularized an infinite prevention system? Didn't EFZ and IaMP have a hitstun bar, SWR and Soku have a limit guage, and BB have hitstun proration long before Skullgirls was even past the concept phase?

What Smash needs is a more intuitive shielding mechanic. Smaller shields and more focus on Shield Angling/Shield DI on hit to get specific defensive options instead of the static defense present in the series.

God no, blocking on Street Fighter's a pain because you've got to angle your blocks.

 

[Knight Dude]

I do agree that these would be good ideas. Online monitoring, to prevent excessive cheating would be ideal. Though I would wonder how well that'd be done in a fighting game. Maybe it wouldn't be all that different than what was done for Mario Kart 7. As for the rival battles, yeah that would be cool. Reminds me alot of Tekken or Soul Calibur, which is a good thing. It'd be even cooler if we had small in-game cutscenes that the other fighting games have with their rival battles.

 

[LancerStaff]

All I need is a 1v1 mode online with a simple stage banlist. (Yaknow, just the completely unmanageable stuff like Warioware and Temple.)

 

[J1NG]

Hmm, I'm OK with 2 and 3, but an IPS? In my opinion, mechanics like the one used in Skullgirls just seemed like a last resort for the developers who couldn't find an elegant solution to infinites.
For example, an easy out for chain grabs is to simply add grab techs(maybe for all grabs except tethers). It doesn't require an extra button, it's easy enough to execute, other games have implemented them with success, and it also grants an additional option against tech chase grabs like Snake's down throw.
I would want an IPS that fits in with what Smash already has. Maybe the movement granted by Smash DI could become greater if a player performs it consecutively(up to a cap if necessary). I don't know, I literally just now thought of that without thinking it through.