Legality 20XXTE Frozen Pokemon Stadium

[Uchihadark7]

Since 20XXTE is being used at more tournaments, will the Frozen version of Pokemon Stadium be considered a starter stage or even replace the original as a counterpick? There's literally no reason to have the transformations with a frozen stage.

 

[Delta Chae]

Probably not since not every has 20XXTE so it'll likely remain as is just for the sake of consistency since you can't expect everyone who brings a setup to a major or even a regional to have 20XXTE.

 

[Uchihadark7]

Probably not since not every has 20XXTE so it'll likely remain as is just for the sake of consistency since you can't expect everyone who brings a setup to a major or even a regional to have 20XXTE.

But in the case of 20XXTE setups, where does Frozen Stadium fit in?

 

[Delta Chae]

But in the case of 20XXTE setups, where does Frozen Stadium fit in?

It's not really a relevant question since the change likely won't be made due to consistency issues. Don't get me wrong I'd be all for it if there were some way to standardize 20XXTE and I suppose at smaller tournaments players could gentleman to it if they wanted to.

 

[Uchihadark7]

It's not really a relevant question since the change likely won't be made due to consistency issues. Don't get me wrong I'd be all for it if there were some way to standardize 20XXTE and I suppose at smaller tournaments players could gentleman to it if they wanted to.

True. Hopefully it becomes as common a gentleman as Hyrule in 64 though. It's a good stage and it would be a shame to see it go unused.

 

[Spak]

True. Hopefully it becomes as common a gentleman as Hyrule in 64 though. It's a good stage and it would be a shame to see it go unused.

Gentlemens are great. I remember seeing Lunchables and Sethlon gentlemen to Melee in a PM grand finals. Then proceeded to do Roy dittos on various stages (Big Blue was one of them if I remember correctly). But I digress.

I doubt that 20XXTE will ever be the standard for large tournaments. Sure it has replays and frozen Stadium, but in its current glitchy state, the negatives outweigh the positives. I've never seen an instance of 20XXTE at one of our locals (although I've played tourney sets on 20XX Training Pack), and because of its glitchy state at the time of full release, I doubt we will ever see 20XXTE tournament setups at our locals. I'd assume nationals would want to stay vanilla as well, since the Melee community tends to be more hesitant towards change.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

To run a tournament with TE there is only 2 things are needed.

1) All setups must be running vanilla melee. 20XX hack pack cannot be used.

2) A single memory card with TE.

#1 should really be standard anyways. Hack pack is not meant for tournament, and there are a lot of potential abuses. For example, I found that someone had changed the setting for peach's turnip to always pull normal turnip (nothing else). Unless you are looking through every single menu, you will not catch this. Players should not be expected/required to do this before every tournament set, but they must if they are playing on a hack pack setup. Even if you played on that setup earlier, someone could easily go into the menu and make changes at any time.

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As for the rules themselves, I think Frozen Stadium is amazing. When the MBR was creating the last ruleset, it was common to hear people say that neutral PS was the best competitive stage. With 20XXTE, we can make that stage a reality.

Also, frozen stages offers us the opportunity to add stages for the first time in the history of the game!! This is a really exciting time to play the game!

This is the ruleset I wanted to run at SnS2, and what I hope the future of the game will go towards:

Neutral/Stage Strike:
Fountain of Dreams
Yoshi's Story
Battlefield
Frozen-Pokemon Stadium
Dream Land 64

Counterpick:
Frozen-Yoshi's Story
Frozen-Dream Land 64
Final Destination

Note: DSR and Stage banning would treat the Frozen stages and their normal counterparts as 1 stage. If you won on Yoshi's Story, you could not counterpick Frozen-Yoshi's (DSR). If your opponent banned Pokemon stadium, both versions would be banned.

Justification: Final Destination is not a neutral stage. In best of 3 sets, it is banned more than any other stage. The biggest reason is the existence of various chaingrabs, but the lack of platforms themselves -- and thus the lack of platform movement options -- also creates contrasting gameplay to the rest of the stages. For example, it is common knowledge that you should ban FD against ICs. Its not that they have extra chaingrabs there (they don't), its the lack of platforms to help avoid grabs that make the stage advantageous for them.

 

[Spak]

To run a tournament with TE there is only 2 things are needed.

1) All setups must be running vanilla melee. 20XX hack pack cannot be used.

2) A single memory card with TE.

#1 should really be standard anyways. Hack pack is not meant for tournament, and there are a lot of potential abuses. For example, I found that someone had changed the setting for peach's turnip to always pull normal turnip (nothing else). Unless you are looking through every single menu, you will not catch this. Players should not be expected/required to do this before every tournament set, but they must if they are playing on a hack pack setup. Even if you played on that setup earlier, someone could easily go into the menu and make changes at any time.

-----

As for the rules themselves, I think Frozen Stadium is amazing. When the MBR was creating the last ruleset, it was common to hear people say that neutral PS was the best competitive stage. With 20XXTE, we can make that stage a reality.

Also, frozen stages offers us the opportunity to add stages for the first time in the history of the game!! This is a really exciting time to play the game!

This is the ruleset I wanted to run at SnS2, and what I hope the future of the game will go towards:

Neutral/Stage Strike:
Fountain of Dreams
Yoshi's Story
Battlefield
Frozen-Pokemon Stadium
Dream Land 64

Counterpick:
Frozen-Yoshi's Story
Frozen-Dream Land 64
Final Destination

Note: DSR and Stage banning would treat the Frozen stages and their normal counterparts as 1 stage. If you won on Yoshi's Story, you could not counterpick Frozen-Yoshi's (DSR). If your opponent banned Pokemon stadium, both versions would be banned.

Justification: Final Destination is not a neutral stage. In best of 3 sets, it is banned more than any other stage. The biggest reason is the existence of various chaingrabs, but the lack of platforms themselves -- and thus the lack of platform movement options -- also creates contrasting gameplay to the rest of the stages. For example, it is common knowledge that you should ban FD against ICs. Its not that they have extra chaingrabs there (they don't), its the lack of platforms to help avoid grabs that make the stage advantageous for them.

If TE ever becomes a standard and it's updated to be less buggy and make a riverless Japes, do you think it'd be a legal counterpick, or will the side platforms being techable be too much of a problem for characters who rely on semi-spikes to kill?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The river wasn't what made the stage banworthy to begin with. The platforms encourage camping in a way that gives the opponent virtually no good options to approach.

This isnt the best example of the camping (neither character is particularly strong at it), but you can see how much it devolves into 1 person standing there waiting for the other person to jump at them.