2.5 CPU changes

[kasus]

Hi, first of all I wanted to say thank your for the amazing 2.5 update. I love it and hope to convince some german fellows to play pm more frequently!

Until then, I have to train vs CPU and that's where I have the impression that the AI got some tweaks. Did you implement any AI changes in the 2.5 demo?

 

[GHNeko]

Yes the AI was improved again from 2.1 to 2.5.

 

[Dubforce]

AI still feels so absolutely wonky in 2.5. Some level 3's are competent, while most level 3's stand still or wavedash. Some level 9's suicide while other level 9's (Ness) **** you insanely hard. What the hell?

 

[Revven]

The levels just change how well the CPU reacts, how quickly they react, and how to perform certain actions. It's not actually based on intelligence level as one would think... like it kind of is in other fighting games or video games in general.

 

[Dubforce]

Still, level 9 ness is dumb, with his frame perfect attacks.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Sheik dying because she uses a tether she doesn't have is pretty hilarious.

 

[Lykos-]

Level 9 Ness is good enough onstage, but gets destroyed offstage.

 

[Skidd Rockett]

I think they're fine. They make better practice than any CPU has before. Although there are some problems, like air-dodging off the stage occasionally. Overall, I've had a decent challenge with some characters (Lucas in particular). The AI has improved a lot since 2.1 though, for sure.

 

[Stunts]

I think they're fine. They make better practice than any CPU has before. Although there are some problems, like air-dodging off the stage occasionally. Overall, I've had a decent challenge with some characters (Lucas in particular). The AI has improved a lot since 2.1 though, for sure.

I am willing to agree with you due to the fact that you avatar is AMAZING

lol but srsly, most of the CPU characters make great practice(Ness, Mario and Zelda in particular, also). I've noticed that the AI had a tweak from 2.1, since I practice with Random, and I'm suprised by the progress the team has done. Though I think some characters are either buggy or something went wrong from my download. Jiggs and Ganon are flat out terrible.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

Lvl 9 Fox CPUs in Melee give me 10 times more trouble compared to Lvl 9 Project M CPUs

Mostly because of the frame perfect reflexes of Melee fox and its tendency to spam jab all day whereas the Project M version tries to spam a lot of tech skill ineffectively.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Lvl 9 Mario is the smartest CPU. Hopefully in the next update we can get other cpu's to not SD a bunch.

 

[Dubforce]

I just prefer playing against real players. If I'm not doing that then I play against level 3's and just practice combos/cgs.

 

[Archangel]

Well I think the hope is to eventually blend the lines between real players and the CPU's. If lvl 9 Fox could waveshine me forever without fail and then edgeguard me perfectly without fail...I'd have a damn good training partner wouldn't you say?

 

[RomeDogg]

Yes you would Arch.... but if that were to happen would we still be able to play and be friends?!!!!1

 

[Archangel]

lol, sure.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yea but if CPUs actually managed to do everything frame perfect, they'd either be impossible to beat, or beating them would require you to do stupid cheesy things that wouldn't be considered good play against a human opponent.

 

[Blarg I'm Dead]

Meh, level 9s were never good practice to begin with.

 

[Dubforce]

Yeah I personally use level 3's.

 

[leelue]

Level Elis

 

[Dubforce]

Lol. Your lucky getting to train with him. My friend geoff, who goes by GMoney, is really good and I can get stomped on by him a lot.

 

[HCK91]

Lvl 9 Mario is the smartest CPU. Hopefully in the next update we can get other cpu's to not SD a bunch.

Damn right! Mario sure knows how to edgeguard...

 

[GaretHax]

... The ai was improved? Huh... I hate lv 9 Zelda, she is such a buzzkill. Ending my 4 stock streaks on the lv 9's just because she abuses all those damn frame advantages on her moves... And my Falcon is horrible, that doesn't really help i guess (It is way too much fun to abuse the cpu's with Falcon). I have to practice with them more than I would like to admit, unfortunately they fall for ALOT of silly stuff people don't fall for and vice-versa so all I ever accomplish is forming a ton of bad habits. Really I just need to get out and play people more >_<

 

[RomeDogg]

Yeah we need some TAS AI. That would be so epic.

 

[RomeDogg]

Whoops I killed it damn. It would be so cool if we could at least make it so the computers AI could recognize advanced patterns and play styles. I would vote for the computers being able to play nearly as well as top pro players. Also I just think making it so You can play ridiculously hard computers close to TAS styled ones would be awesome. You wouldn't be expected to beat them it would just be like cruel melee except not as easy.

 

[KingClubber]

The plan is to get them good enough for an tourney entry.

 

[RomeDogg]

Well make them at least able to beat good players.

 

[theONEjanitor]

the AI is pretty good. esp. Mario. wtf mario is a beast lol.

all that needs to be tweaked is how they recover. like seriously I would lose a lot of my matches from lvl9s if they weren't so bad at recovery. I am thoroughly surprised at how good certain characters are at edgeguarding though. that's going to come in handy.

I also wish that CPU'S teched randomly. that would be amazing for practice.

 

[Isprayaxe]

Agree^ most recoveries suck with cpus. The tech skill is better than melee but overall they're still not perfected and wouldn't advise people to train with them. I would fight level 3 and practice tech and combos. Maybe ledgegaurding too

 

[JOE!]

I usually do lvl 8's due to near human reaction times, and to just get spacing / bread and butter combos / gimp stuff down.

 

[KingClubber]

It's going to take sometime, your going to have think of Ai work as Development Milestones.

While some are naturally better then the other characters like Mario, and Peach. Others are bad, but you have to remember in 2.1 Mario was bad as well. He kept repeatedly using down-b from afar and wouldn't stop unless you got near. It's been fixed for 2.5, and now you have an edge guarding devil.

When i first did the coding for Wavedashing for 2.1, it was pointed out that it wasn't true Wavedashing but triangle jumping really fast. A few weeks later they were Wavedashing like pro's.

Also tech skills doesn't matter if they don't know how to apply it, it's just the easiest stuff to do cause it's only frame numbers, and random buttons. If I say do this on this frame they do it just as told, and any mistake they make is my fault, and can be easily adjusted.

But say, The Ken Combo... takes a bit more then just pressing buttons on frame numbers.

 

[ItalianStallion]

You've done an amazing job so far KingClubber. With no one around to play me, Project M CPU's have become my training partners, and boy, they are so much better than training with Melee CPU's.

For example, I just played one of my friends recently. It had been quite some time since we last played, and since then he had been playing with humans frequently and I had been playing with CPU's. I won about half of the matches we played. This is a true testament to what has been done on the CPU AI because I was still able to compete without the bad habits from playing CPU's for so long, whereas in Melee, this was a big problem. The longer I went without playing a human, the more I got wrecked when I finally played one. Project M CPU's have kept me competitive even when I go months without people to smash with.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Lvl 9 Fox CPUs in Melee give me 10 times more trouble compared to Lvl 9 Project M CPUs

Mostly because of the frame perfect reflexes of Melee fox and its tendency to spam jab all day whereas the Project M version tries to spam a lot of tech skill ineffectively.

Shield when they get close, then spot dodge. They grab every time you put up shield. If caught by jabs, why aren't you crouch canceling into your own fast ground move? AI in melee is pretty stupid and more easily manipulated.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

It's going to take sometime, your going to have think of Ai work as Development Milestones.

While some are naturally better then the other characters like Mario, and Peach. Others are bad, but you have to remember in 2.1 Mario was bad as well. He kept repeatedly using down-b from afar and wouldn't stop unless you got near. It's been fixed for 2.5, and now you have an edge guarding devil.

When i first did the coding for Wavedashing for 2.1, it was pointed out that it wasn't true Wavedashing but triangle jumping really fast. A few weeks later they were Wavedashing like pro's.

Also tech skills doesn't matter if they don't know how to apply it, it's just the easiest stuff to do cause it's only frame numbers, and random buttons. If I say do this on this frame they do it just as told, and any mistake they make is my fault, and can be easily adjusted.

But say, The Ken Combo... takes a bit more then just pressing buttons on frame numbers.

Woah your the guy that makes the AI? dude your cool as **** anyways i really hope the AI is made to train for like the first 4-5 levels, and then the other 4-5 are all about fighting. Actually my biggest hope for this mod is to make the computer really hard, without continually spaming, although i know that takes lots of time, but it could be done.

just think about it guys, after PM is completely finished, the only thing new to download to the game would be AI settings for each character, and for each lvl you could pick a player with different traits like for lvl 9 fox, you could pick the extremly tech. silentwolf/javi or maybe Mango/unknown instead

Marth lvl.6-ARC, fullmetal falcomist etc.
lvl.7-jpg, cactuar, taj, TAI
lvl.8-Pewpewu
lvl.9- Mew2king (this would be basically as frame perfect as melee marth, just 3 googlon times smarter than the melee one), or dr.pp (he took a set off of armada, nuff said)

yeah this would be my wet dream

 

[KingClubber]

i really hope the AI is made to train for like the first 4-5 levels, and then the other 4-5 are all about fighting. Actually my biggest hope for this mod is to make the computer really hard, without continually spaming, although i know that takes lots of time, but it could be done.

It's not possible to make Ai work like that, cpu's lvl's controls what actions they can, and can not do. They're aren't coded by individual levels, otherwise only lvl.9 cpu's would be the only one being worked on, and the other would be removed.

just think about it guys, after PM is completely finished, the only thing new to download to the game would be AI settings for each character, and for each lvl you could pick a player with different traits like for lvl 9 fox, you could pick the extremly tech. silentwolf/javi or maybe Mango/unknown instead

Not sure this will happen, no one else is working on Ai. After P:M goes gold I doubt anyone is going to bother learning how to edit Ai, as it was possible to do so a year before i took it up.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

It's not possible to make Ai work like that, cpu's lvl's controls what actions they can, and can not do. They're aren't coded by individual levels, otherwise only lvl.9 cpu's would be the only one being worked on, and the other would be removed.



Not sure this will happen, no one else is working on Ai. After P:M goes gold I doubt anyone is going to bother learning how to edit Ai, as it was possible to do so a year before i took it up.

Eh i can dream, but i didn't know about the AI, i guess i'll just hope for a really responsive AI, still your doing amazing man! hope you get them on tourney levels at least

btw, is it really hard/diffucult to change the settings? 'cause i'd love to try it, but i don't know how complicated it is.

 

[KingClubber]

I wouldn't say hard, but not easy as well. It depends on what you want to get done. Frame stuff, and minor edits are easy, but it gets harder with more complex stuff. If you honestly really want to give it a try PM me, and i'll try to get you started but i'm still learning myself.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

I wouldn't say hard, but not easy as well. It depends on what you want to get done. Frame stuff, and minor edits are easy, but it gets harder with more complex stuff. If you honestly really want to give it a try PM me, and i'll try to get you started but i'm still learning myself.

thanks but i'd rather wait tell you at least get the hang of it. And i don't have time right now, but i'll take you up on the offer after a couple of months, mostly vactaion so i could get started on it

thanks anyways!