. .

[nuro]

. .

 

[vesperview]

You did know Ganondorf's moveset is Captain Falcon's right? lol, FAIL!

Post in the Ganondorf thread:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=113523

 

[platnum]

gannon old moves was teh clonage so no o n e ge it



i typed in n00b so you could understand.

 

[vesperview]

gannon old moves was teh clonage so no o n e ge it



i typed in n00b so you could understand.

No, you type like that all the time.

 

[platnum]

No, you type like that all the time.

no i dont.


*ignors*

 

[Deleted member]

no i dont.


*ignors*

Uh, yes. You do.

No capitals or other proper punctuation is a sign that one has failed...

ENGLISH

ZING *HIGHFIVE* ROFFLE

 

[SinisterLizard]

You guys all fail. He's saying should someone be a Captain Falcon clone (equivalently) assuming Dorf gets an original moveset... *rolls eyes* Guys think you're so gosh darn smart...

And Mach Rider wouldn't make sense at all. I'm thinking he's out because of Wario's bike move. BS would make some sense as some type of clone of Falcon. I could see him with a Melee-Ganondorf-ish type moveset.

 

[vesperview]

Everyone knows there won't be clones in Brawl, no one is getting Ganondorf's moveset, since it's obvious he's getting a new one, because it is exactly like Captain Falcon's.

 

[SJAK47]

Yup, no clones in Brawl. Why inherit the same moves as Captain Falcon?

 

[SinisterLizard]

Everyone knows there won't be clones in Brawl, no one is getting Ganondord's moveset, since it's obvious he's getting a new one, because it is exactly like Captain Falcon's.

Really? Everyone knows that? That's interesting considering...I've never actually talked to anyone on the Brawl development team. How about you stop with your grandiose assumptions? No one knows anything that wasn't explicitly said on the DOJO site. And even then, as we know, it can always change in the future...*coughreleasedatecoughcough*

So, stop coming around all high and mighty like you know so much. You don't.

 

[nuro]

You did know Ganondorf's moveset is Captain Falcon's right? lol, FAIL!

Post in the Ganondorf thread:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=113523

This really isn't about Ganondorf at all.

There has always been an underground discussion about this so we should see who is the most popular character to fill the spot, once and for all.

And by no clones in brawl I take it that Falco isn't returning? Since he did undergo the same training Fox did he would probably be a clone again.

 

[vesperview]

This really isn't about Ganondorf at all.

There has always been an underground discussion about this so we should see who is the most popular character to fill the spot, once and for all.

What spot? No one is getting that moveset, is cloned!

Really? Everyone knows that? That's interesting considering...I've never actually talked to anyone on the Brawl development team. How about you stop with your grandiose assumptions? No one knows anything that wasn't explicitly said on the DOJO site. And even then, as we know, it can always change in the future...*coughreleasedatecoughcough*

So, stop coming around all high and mighty like you know so much. You don't.

Yeah, Sakurai's Journal is SO not an official source [/sarcasm] you really have to be an idiot to want clones in Brawl.

 

[SinisterLizard]

Yeah, Sakurai's Journal is SO not an official source [/sarcasm] you really have to be an idiot to want clones in Brawl.

Sakurai's Journal? What the crap are you talking about?

And that is a very pompous statement, btw. I think you'd have to be an idiot not to want them. They add a lot more variety to the game by giving you two characters for the price of one. You get some variety in a particular moveset by having different affects. Who really cares what you think?

 

[vesperview]

And that is a very pompous statement, btw. I think you'd have to be an idiot not to want them. They add a lot more variety to the game by giving you two characters for the price of one. You get some variety in a particular moveset by having different affects.

Yeah the more the merrier right? Quality over quantity just went to hell here, didn't it?

Who really cares what you think?

Same could be said for you.

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

Sakurai's Journal? What the crap are you talking about?

In the old Japanese site, which doesn't seem to exist anymore. Or at least I can't find it.

Topic: Clones are a bad idea, so no one should get Ganondorf's moveset. Even if clones were acceptable, giving someone else Ganondorf's moves would defeat the purpose of changing his in the first place. Kind of a stupid concept, really.

 

[SinisterLizard]

Yeah the more the merrier right? Quality over quantity just went to hell here, didn't it?

*rolls eyes*

"Quality" doesn't necessarily mean characters don't have similar movesets. I guess Luigi needs to get completely revamped, too, since he's so much like Mario...And since we're so keen on making characters so completely different, why don't we just stamp the limit on sword users? There are too many already. No more because we don't need anymore "clones," right?

Why don't you just go back to your precious Claus thread?

Same could be said for you.

I'm not the one going around calling everyone an idiot who doesn't agree with me.

In the old Japanese site, which doesn't seem to exist anymore. Or at least I can't find it.

Well, gee, don't you think that's kind of out of date? Sakurai says a lot of things. And I think one of the things you're talking about from a long time ago was something implying he didn't want to have as many or something that everyone extrapolated into "No more clones!!1".

 

[vesperview]

*rolls eyes*

"Quality" doesn't necessarily mean characters don't have similar movesets. I guess Luigi needs to get completely revamped, too, since he's so much like Mario...And since we're so keen on making characters so completely different, why don't we just stamp the limit on sword users? There are too many already. No more because we don't need anymore "clones," right?

You don't even know if Luigi is getting a completely new moveset, plus, we're talking clones here, not characters with "similar" moves, nice way to turn the tables, specially from someone who thinks all characters with swords are a little too similar to each other.

Why don't you just go back to your precious Claus thread?

Why don't you stop throwing ******** comebacks?

I'm not the one going around calling everyone an idiot who doesn't agree with me.

That doesn't change a thing about it.

 

[nuro]

What is this "Journal" you guys are talking about?

The translation thread? http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=72642

And I think that sword users aren't a problem!!!!!!!!!!!!! D:<

What is a problem is that there is too many fist users. NO MORE FIST USERS IN BRAWL ITS CLICHE!

Spoiler

This is sarcasm you baaka

 

[SinisterLizard]

You don't even know if Luigi is getting a completely new moveset, plus, we're talking clones here, not characters with "similar" moves, nice way to turn the tables, specially from someone who thinks all characters with swords are a little too similar to each other.

Wow, ok, you are an idiot. You can't even read apparently.

And fyi, clones are characters with similar moves. Or, didn't you know that? How about you get a clue before you talk next time?

 

[vesperview]

Wow, ok, you are an idiot. You can't even read apparently.

And fyi, clones are characters with similar moves. Or, didn't you know that? How about you get a clue before you talk next time?

How about you go play Melee before opening your mouth? OMG! Ganondorf's moves are purple he is SO different from Captain Falcon[/sarcasm], GTFO!

 

[SinisterLizard]

How about you go play Melee before opening your mouth? OMG! Ganondorf's moves are purple he is SO different from Captain Falcon[/sarcasm], GTFO!

Yeah, I've never played Melee before...

How about you get out and stop trolling, OK? No one is impressed by your inability to read or your attempt at intelligence by feigning sarcasm.

 

[vesperview]

Yeah, I've never played Melee before...

How about you get out and stop trolling, OK? No one is impressed by your inability to read or your attempt at intelligence by feigning sarcasm.

So now I'm a troll because you can't accept that Captain Falcon and Ganondorf have no differences in their moves, besides damage and color? Nice, what a waste of time.

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

Well, gee, don't you think that's kind of out of date? Sakurai says a lot of things. And I think one of the things you're talking about from a long time ago was something implying he didn't want to have as many or something that everyone extrapolated into "No more clones!!1".

I don't think the age of it matters really.

And the whole reason there were clones in Melee is because of time constraints and a general struggle to include more characters. More time for Brawl means more time to develop unique characters.

And why do you want clones?

 

[SinisterLizard]

Captain Falcon and Ganondorf have no differences in their moves, besides damage and color

I think you're the one who needs to go play Melee...

I don't think the age of it matters really.

It sure does. In July, Brawl was coming out in December. In October, it was coming out in February. Things change. Besides, I still never found a place where he said that, other than people making implications.

And the whole reason there were clones in Melee is because of time constraints and a general struggle to include more characters. More time for Brawl means more time to develop unique characters.

And why do you want clones?

Why not? I didn't say I wanted two exact same characters like Mario and Doc, but you can have two similar characters with a lot of differences. Look what they did to Luigi. And even Ganondorf/Falcon would pretty different. OK so their specials were the same, but there were plenty of differences. I wouldn't have a problem with characters sharing moves with other characters. I like diversity, but there is more to diversity than making each character have twenty-some moves that are 100% different from every other characters'.

 

[vesperview]

I think you're the one who needs to go play Melee...

I think someone's in denial of Ganondorf's lack of originality in Melee, please don't be so biased, the only major difference between clones in Melee is that Roy's standard special explodes and Marth's doesn't.

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

It sure does. In July, Brawl was coming out in December. In October, it was coming out in February. Things change. Besides, I still never found a place where he said that, other than people making implications.

Well this is the latest he's said on the matter. You'd believe now that the game will be released February 10th, because that's what he said. And I explained why there were clones in the first place.

By the way, the old site is the same place where the stickied poll list was taken from, so it does exist. Here's a site translating it:

http://n-forums.com/index.php?showtopic=17011

Why not? I didn't say I wanted two exact same characters like Mario and Doc, but you can have two similar characters with a lot of differences. Look what they did to Luigi. And even Ganondorf/Falcon would pretty different. OK so their specials were the same, but there were plenty of differences. I wouldn't have a problem with characters sharing moves with other characters. I like diversity, but there is more to diversity than making each character have twenty-some moves that are 100% different from every other characters'.

Giving the moves different animations or properties to declone them wouldn't have to mean a complete change in character playstyle. Ganondorf can still have strong moves with the exact same knockback and damage if need be, and still have unique moves that wouldn't be cloned.

 

[SinisterLizard]

the only major difference between clones in Melee is that Roy's standard special explodes and Marth's doesn't.

Yes, I'm biased...

By the way, the old site is the same place where the stickied poll list was taken from, so it does exist. Here's a site translating it:

http://n-forums.com/index.php?showtopic=17011

Yes, that's what I said. SamuraiPanda's translation thread, but it says nothing about clones. The closest it says to that is: "Not everyone from Melee will be returning. Definitely."

 

[Oasis_S]

Blood Falcon should get it since he's actually a bigger and more ...muscled-up clone of Captain Falcon...

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

"For the last game, we struggled to assemble 26 characters. We tried really hard and unintentionally reached that number.

But, although you'll see characters from the last game, this time, on a significant scale [Yes, this is exact], they will be remade. It is this sort of thing"

 

[SinisterLizard]

"For the last game, we struggled to assemble 26 characters. We tried really hard and unintentionally reached that number.

But, although you'll see characters from the last game, this time, on a significant scale [Yes, this is exact], they will be remade. It is this sort of thing"

That may or may not have anything to do with clones. For example, all of Link's B-moves were tweaked, and Mario's vB is FLUDD, now.

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

That may or may not have anything to do with clones. For example, all of Link's B-moves were tweaked, and Mario's vB is FLUDD, now.

That doesn't seem like anything of 'significant scale' to me.

 

[vesperview]

Yes, I'm biased...

The guy with the Ganondorf avatar says Ganondorf is different from Captain Falcon, yeah and you're not biased, BTW, is overusing emoticons you're way of not having anything good to say? I thought so.

 

[SinisterLizard]

That doesn't seem like anything of 'significant scale' to me.

OK, but certainly Bowser's play style would be, don't you think?

The guy with the Ganondorf avatar says Ganondorf is different from Captain Falcon, yeah and you're not biased, BTW, is overusing emoticons you're way of not having anything good to say? I thought so.

The guy without a Ganondorf avatar says Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are the same, yeah you're not biased...

No, there's just no point trying to discuss anything with you because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

 

[nuro]

"For the last game, we struggled to assemble 26 characters. We tried really hard and unintentionally reached that number.

But, although you'll see characters from the last game, this time, on a significant scale [Yes, this is exact], they will be remade. It is this sort of thing"

This does not mean anything about clones whatsoever. A significant scale means they are still similar just lots of tweaking. If he wanted to say he was remaking the characters he would have said something like "This time we are making characters different,"

And even though it is poorly translated "It is this sort of thing" means something like "Its this sort of thing (because the game is changing this has to happen)"

The only way this has anything to do with clones is if you are a rabid person who looks at a vague statement and justifies it as complete truth when, in actuality, there is no truth to your vapid assumption rather you are just caught up in your own senseless quarrels to realize your either wrong or taking something overboard.



And this isn't anything important but wouldn't a person who has a Ganondorf sig know what he is talking about since he uses ganondorf as compared to someone who hasn't played him enough to see his differences?


It doesn't really matter to me if clones return but I think that Falco/Fox need to be clones since they went through the same training. From my view clones have some good chances.

Blood Falcon should get it since he's actually a bigger and more ...muscled-up clone of Captain Falcon...

Cool. I didn't know about him I guess I'll add him.

 

[smashbot226]

In the old Japanese site, which doesn't seem to exist anymore. Or at least I can't find it.

Topic: Clones are a bad idea, so no one should get Ganondorf's moveset. Even if clones were acceptable, giving someone else Ganondorf's moves would defeat the purpose of changing his in the first place. Kind of a stupid concept, really.

He could keep his Utilt...

 

[Magically Enhanced Hobo]

I'm not seeing what the big deal is about clones. They were pretty popular in Melee for a few years from what I recall. I don't think they should be in Brawl, because they've had over twice as long to work on it as Melee, so they shouldn't be necessary. They're just a way to beef up the roster when you're out of development time, and I guess that's the biggest problem with them, but I liked the ones they had in Melee.

I mean, honestly, in Street Fighter, Ryu and Ken are clones, and nobody seems to have a problem with them. I guess you could count all the Mortal Kombat Ninjas and robots. But really, that's the opposite of what we have here. Same character model, unique moveset, which is worse imo.

On topic: If anyone should be Captain Falcon's clone, it's Black Shadow. With that said, I don't think his chances are high, and if he IS in, he will not be a clone.

 

[bballstar23]

It sure does. In July, Brawl was coming out in December. In October, it was coming out in February. Things change. Besides, I still never found a place where he said that, other than people making implications.

I hate it when people use this argument to say that Sakurai changed his mind. There are probably a number reasons for the delay that don't have to do with him "changing his mind." Maybe, he saw that the fans wanted online play or some other function/mode, so he decided to add it. Maybe they found new bugs that needed to be fixed, and that the game needed to be polished before they could release it. Maybe, Nintendo didn't want two big franchises being released at the same time. If anything, the delay can be used as an argument against clones, because they don't have the excuse about time constraints or anything along those lines.

 

[nuro]

Even if they had all the time in the world they should still add in clones. By making clones they would just be making the number of characters in the game higher regardless whether they have time or not. I don't understand the clone hater mindset. Clones are extra characters, they aren't stealing anyone's place. If there weren't clones in melee we would have 20 characters instead of 26. Adding a whole new character probably takes a lot of time since you have to test if they glitch up anywhere while clones don't need to be tested to that extent since their counterparts have already been tested.

And as for the delay, there were probably more than one reason for it.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Even if they had all the time in the world they should still add in clones. By making clones they would just be making the number of characters in the game higher regardless whether they have time or not. I don't understand the clone hater mindset. Clones are extra characters, they aren't stealing anyone's place. If there weren't clones in melee we would have 20 characters instead of 26. Adding a whole new character probably takes a lot of time since you have to test if they glitch up anywhere while clones don't need to be tested to that extent since their counterparts have already been tested.

And as for the delay, there were probably more than one reason for it.

The only 2 things I hate about clones are:

1. When a clone is the same character. (Dr. Mario, Pichu and Young Link)
2. When a clone's moveset is completely irrelevant (Ganondorf)

So, the only clones I had no problem with were Falco and Roy. I eventually warmed up to Ganondorf too though.

IF they add clones they should be different people. I still think Marrill should have been the Pikachu clone, Ness could've had a Paula clone (with PK Freeze and Frying Pan...), etc. They could've of given more thought to that.

 

[Big-Cat]

The only 2 things I hate about clones are:

1. When a clone is the same character. (Dr. Mario, Pichu and Young Link)
2. When a clone's moveset is completely irrelevant (Ganondorf)

So, the only clones I had no problem with were Falco and Roy. I eventually warmed up to Ganondorf too though.

IF they add clones they should be different people. I still think Marrill should have been the Pikachu clone, Ness could've had a Paula clone (with PK Freeze and Frying Pan...), etc. They could've of given more thought to that.

QFT. I completely agree with you.

If we were to change out Dr. Mario and Pichu out for other clones at the time, it could've been Paula/Poo and Ridley (as a Bowser clone).


As for that remade movesets thing, this is a prime example of us misinterpreting ambious Japanese (redundant?) in our favor. The same goes for the girls line. That derived from Sakurai saying that he was glad to add ZSS because there had been few girls in the past.