1.1.4 new combos

[EternalFlame]

こにちわ、みんなさん！

While we're all still in speculation as to what exactly has changed with Marth, I do have a few new combos to share with the community:

(all were tested on Mario in 3DS Arena Ferox)
Tipper Jab 1 > FTilt = 97 – 150%

Tipper Jab 1 > DS = 94%+ (Sour Jab 1 > DS = 40%+, both will kill starting at 130%)

Tipper Jab 1 > FAir = 120%+

Tipper Jab 1 > SH DB 1 = 130%+

Tipper Jab 1 > Tipper SH DB 1 > UAir = 145 – 164%

Jab 1 > UTilt = 95 - 150%

Tipper Jab 1 > Tipper UAir = 145%+

Tipper SH DB 1 > UAir = 123%+ (once past 130% SH DB 1 works regardless of tipper)

SH DB 1 > DJ FAir = 150%+

SH DB 1 > FAir = 119- 126(tipper) 164 (mid point)%

Tipper SH DB 1 > NAir > Followup = 120-153% (sour SH DB 1 can work at 145%+)

Tipper SH DB 1 > DAir = 150%+

These combos are now possible due to the faster Jab 1 endlag and I believe a faster DB1 endlag and knockback change. Hopefully this can open up to other new ideas for combos (I'm still testing myself, but I'm waaaay too tired now after labbing for 2 hours late at night). Some credit also has to go to pugwest (if I'm remembering the user right), who posted on Jab 1 > FSmash as a true combo, alongside the player Colgate who mentioned how Jab 1 > DB is a true combo as well. Just took the basis and experimented from there (though now that I think about it, I gotta lab out that one Colgate just mentioned....

EDIT:
Here's a few extra ones I've found for you all:
Tipper NAir 1 > USmash = 140%+ (sour spot works at 170%+)

Reverse UTilt > FTilt = 21 - 31%

Reverse UTilt > BAir = 36 - 59%

Reverse UTilt > DB = 0 - 11%

NAir 1 > Jab 1 > UTilt = 85%+

NAir 1 > Jab 1 > DS = 50%+

Tipper Jab 1 > FSmash = 130 - 154% (works only on fast fallers like Shiek as far as I can tell).

UTilt > UAir = 14-94% (Sour spot works from 36-94%, Tipper works from 14-62%. the combo is heavily dependent on the DI past 50%) Credit to DariusM27 for catching this combo

All of these combos and more are featured on the Marcina Discord Community Doc, as well as on my own guide (once I get around to editing them in xD). So please see BozzMac for more details regarding the community Doc, and if you're interested in helping out with it, or looking to connect with more Marths and Lucinas out there, please check out the Discord Community.

... now for me to go get some sleep xD

 

[Xisin]

I can't seem to get the jab stuff to register but I do believe that work. not sure what I'm doing wrong.

 

[EternalFlame]

I can't seem to get the jab stuff to register but I do believe that work. not sure what I'm doing wrong.

The timing is a bit picky indeed, but which ones specifically where you having trouble with? The thing with these combos is that they mostly use the same button, so too soon and you'll just Jab 2, too late and you'll miss the true combo opportunity. It took me a little while to get use to the timing, so keep on trying and you'll get it too.

Oh, if its that Tipper Jab 1 > Tipper UAir btw, that's a pain in the butt for even myself to get xD

 

[DariusM27]

Thanks for posting this necessary thread!

 

[Deleted member]

I heard somewhere on facebook that Jab 1 > FSmash is a true combo, but does anyone know the percent ranges for the kill?

 

[EternalFlame]

Thanks for posting this necessary thread!

No problem xD

I heard somewhere on facebook that Jab 1 > FSmash is a true combo, but does anyone know the percent ranges for the kill?

I believe Pug was mentioning that it is character specific and very precise with the percent. I'll be looking into it now, so hopefully I'll find something on it. Everyone else that can look into it as well would be great, as that likely will be a great option to know of

EDIT:

Well, figured it out and updated the post. Will see if I can pull them off on other characters too, but this seems to only work on fast fallers

 

[DariusM27]

Both weak and strong hit of the back hit of utilt combos into uair kos, that is pretty huge.

 

[CaptainVul]

Both weak and strong hit of the back hit of utilt combos into uair kos, that is pretty huge.

At what percent?

 

[DariusM27]

I just did some testing.

Short characters
The tipper hitbox doesn't hit pikachu, olimar, or metaknight, at least not that I saw, which is good for follow ups.

The tipper can hit diddy though.

Weak reverse utilt to tipper uair kills diddy at 97% at battlefield, true combo.
When Marth had 150% rage, the same combo kos diddy at 75%

The combo kos cloud around 105%, and 83% when marth has rage! Tipper and rage between 60-65%.

It's good practice to subtract 15-20% from the oppenents % needed to get the combo, for most of marths combos.

I suspect the combo window to be much smaller and more difficult with tipper utilt, but probably not impossible depending on % and rage.

It's great to have a combo into our uair, other than our very challenging and finicky dthrow, which is useless against certain characters or when marth has rage.

 

[EternalFlame]

Both weak and strong hit of the back hit of utilt combos into uair kos, that is pretty huge.

Well, getting reverse UTilt in general is a bit of a butt, but good catch there. I'll need to update the combo section on the top for this

At what percent?

Sour spot works from 36-94%, Tipper works from 14-62%. Not to mention, the combo is heavily dependent on the DI past 50%, as the CPU can even avoid it (so even these percents are not completely accurate for when they can work).

This is based on Mario currently, so likely this will work better on fast fallers.

 

[kingxpiccolo]

sorry if this has been discussed already because im lame and im going to post before i actually read the thread, but ive found that the first few frames of uair (just before you land) combo into nearly anything until high percents. tipper uair+utilt+utilt is a true combo on some fast fallers at very low percents. uair+bair+fair is true on most fighters around mid percents. ive been having a lot of fun with this buff. (also i dont know for sure if these were possible before the patch im so sorry im a scrub)

 

[DariusM27]

sorry if this has been discussed already because im lame and im going to post before i actually read the thread, but ive found that the first few frames of uair (just before you land) combo into nearly anything until high percents. tipper uair+utilt+utilt is a true combo on some fast fallers at very low percents. uair+bair+fair is true on most fighters around mid percents. ive been having a lot of fun with this buff. (also i dont know for sure if these were possible before the patch im so sorry im a scrub)

Please read before posting, as the strings you mentioned have been mentioned in either this thread, or the thread dealing with marth's true combos, which existed before the patch. Uair has always combod into other attacks, even fsmash and usmash, that was known week1.

 

[kingxpiccolo]

Please read before posting, as the strings you mentioned have been mentioned in either this thread, or the thread dealing with marth's true combos, which existed before the patch. Uair has always combod into other attacks, even fsmash and usmash, that was known week1.

thanks for the info, but honestly i hadn't seen them anywhere else. i did kinda skim through this thread to try and makes sure i wasn't being redundant. could just be i'm oblivious but i've just been looking through marth general and this mostly. I actually only made an account here to talk about the marth buff so i'm just trying to figure everything out i guess. so if you have any advice on other threads i should visit i'd really appreciate it. also i should have mentioned, i knew uair combod into things before, but i wasn't 100% sure if the ones i mentioned were true pre-patch. i guess i'm pretty poorly informed but i'm attempting not to spread any false info. i'm just excited he got buffed

 

[DariusM27]

thanks for the info, but honestly i hadn't seen them anywhere else. i did kinda skim through this thread to try and makes sure i wasn't being redundant. could just be i'm oblivious but i've just been looking through marth general and this mostly. I actually only made an account here to talk about the marth buff so i'm just trying to figure everything out i guess. so if you have any advice on other threads i should visit i'd really appreciate it. also i should have mentioned, i knew uair combod into things before, but i wasn't 100% sure if the ones i mentioned were true pre-patch. i guess i'm pretty poorly informed but i'm attempting not to spread any false info. i'm just excited he got buffed

No problem, yeah there's a thread called marth's true combos, but I'm sure it needs updated or replaced now. But people on marth boards have had all his true combos listed prepatch. Nothing wrong with asking questions.

 

[kingxpiccolo]

No problem, yeah there's a thread called marth's true combos, but I'm sure it needs updated or replaced now. But people on marth boards have had all his true combos listed prepatch. Nothing wrong with asking questions.

thanks a lot! i'm really trying to learn more about the game, but so far i'm still working to improve my fundamentals haha. i should have made an account here a long time ago but i never wanted to participate in conversations since i basically don't know what i'm talking about, and i figured i'd make myself look like an idiot. but a friend told me that i'm never going to learn anything unless i actually engage in discussions with people who are well-educated on the topic. and so far most people here seem pretty cool and willing to help

 

[EternalFlame]

thanks a lot! i'm really trying to learn more about the game, but so far i'm still working to improve my fundamentals haha. i should have made an account here a long time ago but i never wanted to participate in conversations since i basically don't know what i'm talking about, and i figured i'd make myself look like an idiot. but a friend told me that i'm never going to learn anything unless i actually engage in discussions with people who are well-educated on the topic. and so far most people here seem pretty cool and willing to help

Your friend gave you very important advice dude. Gotta get active in the Smash community in order to really learn how to play the game well. I started similar to you, where I also had minimal experience in smash as a whole and I was writing what little tricks I found. After enough time, those set of little tricks became the Marth and Lucina guide, and the rest is history.

Go out there and learn and talk as much as you can dude. You never know when you may find something amazing to write about xD But be sure to check out what's written already too, cus alot of us wrote stuff down for you guys to learn something from.

 

[nedskii-]

So if you down throw and double tap jump and do an up air..this has worked for me like 95%

 

[EternalFlame]

So if you down throw and double tap jump and do an up air..this has worked for me like 95%

Yeah, a user by the name of Colgate should have covered that already. I'll list it down later, as I haven't had time to lab it out personally.

 

[kingxpiccolo]

Your friend gave you very important advice dude. Gotta get active in the Smash community in order to really learn how to play the game well. I started similar to you, where I also had minimal experience in smash as a whole and I was writing what little tricks I found. After enough time, those set of little tricks became the Marth and Lucina guide, and the rest is history.

Go out there and learn and talk as much as you can dude. You never know when you may find something amazing to write about xD But be sure to check out what's written already too, cus alot of us wrote stuff down for you guys to learn something from.

Thanks so much! And yeah, absolutely. So far it feels good to be a part of the community so I'm definitely gonna get involved with a lot more discussions, and take away as much as I can from it :^) I really appreciate the patience and kind words, my friends!

 

[DariusM27]

Dthrow uair kills sheik in training mode at 85-98% true combo, lol

 

[Sir Lancelot]

I thought kill percents of aerials would be helpful, so I tested them out.
From reset position in training on Mario:
Tipper fair kills at 121%, tipper bair at 105%, tipper nair at 104%, tipper up air at 135%
Hope this helps!

 

[Greenkagami]

Hello! I'm looking to create a video character guide for Lucina, and any and all help would be be appreciated. Plus you'll receive a shoutout in the credits plus links to their contributors' respective channels or other social media pages.

 

[DariusM27]

Hello! I'm looking to create a video character guide for Lucina, and any and all help would be be appreciated. Plus you'll receive a shoutout in the credits plus links to their contributors' respective channels or other social media pages.

Nair1 to everything. Specifically, because of added range and damage, I think fair to fastfall nair1 is amazing, and starts true combo to fsmash as early as 85%ish for Marth.

Yeah, I think fair to ff nair1 might be our best move. It even hits the shortest characters.

 

[Sir Lancelot]

Nair1 to everything. Specifically, because of added range and damage, I think fair to fastfall nair1 is amazing, and starts true combo to fsmash as early as 85%ish for Marth.

Yeah, I think fair to ff nair1 might be our best move. It even hits the shortest characters.

I thought you can't use an aerial after a short hop fair? Or do you mean full hop?

 

[DKGrayson]

Do you have to get off the DB1 as soon as possible after SH to get a nair before you land?

I tried this last night as I'm still pretty slow and new, and thought it would be easier to learn than SH fast fall nair 1.

Struggled a bit and couldn't land a nair at all! I didn't know about the nair not landing if the DB 1 is tippered, however I'm sure I can't have tippered the DB every time, as my spacing just isn't that good!

 

[DariusM27]

I thought you can't use an aerial after a short hop fair? Or do you mean full hop?

Yeah, Full hop

 

[DariusM27]

Do you have to get off the DB1 as soon as possible after SH to get a nair before you land?

I tried this last night as I'm still pretty slow and new, and thought it would be easier to learn than SH fast fall nair 1.

Struggled a bit and couldn't land a nair at all! I didn't know about the nair not landing if the DB 1 is tippered, however I'm sure I can't have tippered the DB every time, as my spacing just isn't that good!

You should try sh nair1 fastfall. Don't nair1 right away or too soon, since you only want one hit to come out.
Also try sh airdodge nair1.
And full hop fair fastfall nair1.

Those are the easier ones. I think db1 is a different kind of situational move, like usually above 80 or 90 percent.

 

[Gugge]

I don't know if this counts as a new combo or not but falling Uair > Utilt > Uair is a true combo, i found it easier to do on zss around 19%.

 

[EternalFlame]

Nair1 to everything. Specifically, because of added range and damage, I think fair to fastfall nair1 is amazing, and starts true combo to fsmash as early as 85%ish for Marth.

Yeah, I think fair to ff nair1 might be our best move. It even hits the shortest characters.

Do gotta be careful about FAir > FF NAir one, as it is the string and can be broken if your opponent knows what to do. FF NAir usually can hit short characters, which does give it merit; and on the same point though, you risk alot if your opponent dodges/blocks, as you're compromising your spacing to hit with it. Its great if you can hit it, though with proper timing, you don't even need the fast fall to hit your opponents. Some combos and the crossup off of NAir you'll actually want to avoid FF NAir since you need forward momentum to make it work well.

Do you have to get off the DB1 as soon as possible after SH to get a nair before you land?

I tried this last night as I'm still pretty slow and new, and thought it would be easier to learn than SH fast fall nair 1.

Struggled a bit and couldn't land a nair at all! I didn't know about the nair not landing if the DB 1 is tippered, however I'm sure I can't have tippered the DB every time, as my spacing just isn't that good!

Yes, if you do DB1 just as you start your SH, it takes care of the timing and is best used to anti air someone or interrupt them when they try to jump. On the other hand, its also not safe on shield and can be punished just the same as FF NAir, since you do compromise your zone with it (as you normally try to get closer with it if you're intending to hit with it). Its ok as a defensive option though, if you're swinging it away from your opponent, then hope they run into you as you NAir. There is also the SH AD (Short Hop AIr Dodge) > NAir 1, which also does the timing for you as long as you do it in the same mindset, but as a dodge first you do give your opponent time to react (so its usually better used when you think your opponent will swing at you immediately) Lastly, just timing NAir 1 off any jump is one trick that you're best learning if you want to really go for the setup/combo route of Marth. You can do shield crossups with it by having forward momentum, then hitting your opponent with the base of your sword so you end up at his back instead of infront, then you're free to do something while they figure out where you are. If you can get the timing, even short characters can't avoid it (well, unless they duck, then you'd probably have to go for the FF method xD)

NAir 1 is an amazing tool, and give it time to get use to it. I've been writing on this since vanilla, and it took me some time before I could do the timing all by itself instead of using the DB/AD methods. Believe me, if you can learn to use all the variants correctly, you'll find plenty of opportunities to use it.

I don't know if this counts as a new combo or not but falling Uair > Utilt > Uair is a true combo, i found it easier to do on zss around 19%.

Yep, been covered by someone else on this chat, and its been covered in the past as well if I'm not mistaken (since it was a thing after the speed buff on UTilt).

Hello! I'm looking to create a video character guide for Lucina, and any and all help would be be appreciated. Plus you'll receive a shoutout in the credits plus links to their contributors' respective channels or other social media pages.

If ya need any help on it, please let me know. Granted, I've got my own plans on a video guide too, whether I get down to actually doing it is another question d: At the very least, if I can help produce one, I'm doing my part to help in a video guide version.

 

[Mellowmike]

I'm not sure if these are old combos or if anyone has found them yet, but I've just been doing some testing in training mode against an idle cpu Bayonetta for any new true combos. I've found a few:

@ 0%~20% Apex of a forward moving SH --> Nair 1&2 sour-spot --> F-tilt tipper/jab1+2
This 3 hit true combo totals out to 22%-24% due to nair 1 sometimes tipping, it's fine if it does. Other characters may be able to get hit by up-tilt out of landing with nair 2 instead (if they're heavier or DI in, needs testing). If up-tilt sour-spots or tips Marth may be able to follow up with another true up-air or fair totaling for about 28%-33%

@ ~80%~92% Falling, auto-cancel, sour-spot up-air --> tipper up-air
I've gotten true hits and kill combos with this against Bayonetta in training mode. DI may break this combo but I'm not sure with the new up-air damage and reach. Needs more testing obvs.

 

[The Allegiant]

こにちわ、みんなさん！

While we're all still in speculation as to what exactly has changed with Marth, I do have a few new combos to share with the community:

(all were tested on Mario in 3DS Arena Ferox)
Tipper Jab 1 > FTilt = 97 – 150%

Tipper Jab 1 > DS = 94%+ (Sour Jab 1 > DS = 40%+, both will kill starting at 130%)

Tipper Jab 1 > FAir = 120%+

Tipper Jab 1 > SH DB 1 = 130%+

Tipper Jab 1 > Tipper SH DB 1 > UAir = 145 – 164%

Jab 1 > UTilt = 95 - 150%

Tipper Jab 1 > Tipper UAir = 145%+

Tipper SH DB 1 > UAir = 123%+ (once past 130% SH DB 1 works regardless of tipper)

SH DB 1 > DJ FAir = 150%+

SH DB 1 > FAir = 119- 126(tipper) 164 (mid point)%

Tipper SH DB 1 > NAir > Followup = 120-153% (sour SH DB 1 can work at 145%+)

Tipper SH DB 1 > DAir = 150%+

These combos are now possible due to the faster Jab 1 endlag and I believe a faster DB1 endlag and knockback change. Hopefully this can open up to other new ideas for combos (I'm still testing myself, but I'm waaaay too tired now after labbing for 2 hours late at night). Some credit also has to go to pugwest (if I'm remembering the user right), who posted on Jab 1 > FSmash as a true combo, alongside the player Colgate who mentioned how Jab 1 > DB is a true combo as well. Just took the basis and experimented from there (though now that I think about it, I gotta lab out that one Colgate just mentioned....

EDIT:
Here's a few extra ones I've found for you all:
Tipper NAir 1 > USmash = 140%+ (sour spot works at 170%+)

Reverse UTilt > FTilt = 21 - 31%

Reverse UTilt > BAir = 36 - 59%

Reverse UTilt > DB = 0 - 11%

NAir 1 > Jab 1 > UTilt = 85%+

NAir 1 > Jab 1 > DS = 50%+

Tipper Jab 1 > FSmash = 130 - 154% (works only on fast fallers like Shiek as far as I can tell).

UTilt > UAir = 14-94% (Sour spot works from 36-94%, Tipper works from 14-62%. the combo is heavily dependent on the DI past 50%) Credit to DariusM27 for catching this combo

All of these combos and more are featured on the Marcina Discord Community Doc, as well as on my own guide (once I get around to editing them in xD). So please see BozzMac for more details regarding the community Doc, and if you're interested in helping out with it, or looking to connect with more Marths and Lucinas out there, please check out the Discord Community.

... now for me to go get some sleep xD

what's SH DB?

 

[Rashyboy05]

what's SH DB?

Short hop Dancing Blade.

 

[The Allegiant]

Short hop Dancing Blade.

ok thanks

 

[Ninety]

Is sour jab 1 to fsmash guaranteed at some percent?

 

[EternalFlame]

I'm not sure if these are old combos or if anyone has found them yet, but I've just been doing some testing in training mode against an idle cpu Bayonetta for any new true combos. I've found a few:

@ 0%~20% Apex of a forward moving SH --> Nair 1&2 sour-spot --> F-tilt tipper/jab1+2
This 3 hit true combo totals out to 22%-24% due to nair 1 sometimes tipping, it's fine if it does. Other characters may be able to get hit by up-tilt out of landing with nair 2 instead (if they're heavier or DI in, needs testing). If up-tilt sour-spots or tips Marth may be able to follow up with another true up-air or fair totaling for about 28%-33%

@ ~80%~92% Falling, auto-cancel, sour-spot up-air --> tipper up-air
I've gotten true hits and kill combos with this against Bayonetta in training mode. DI may break this combo but I'm not sure with the new up-air damage and reach. Needs more testing obvs.

Yep, both of those combos have been a thing since, I dare say, vanilla. I know UAir > USmash is, not too sure about the NAir 1 2 > FTilt/Jab, but it was found out already some time ago.

Is sour jab 1 to fsmash guaranteed at some percent?

That I'm not too sure, as usually the base of the sword doesn't give enough hitstun to connect FSmash. As far as I know, there's no one that quite fits that description unless at extremely high percents, but I could be wrong. Its getting busy on my end, so I haven't had much time to experiment

 

[DariusM27]

Against Marth, Weak hit rising sh bair combos to jab from 35-59%
Weak hit rising sh fair to jab from 59-75%
(fyi, you have to time the fastfall perfectly so it auto cancels, which you should have been doing since game's launch if you've been a Marth main)

And falling Nair to jab from 0-40%

Falling Nair combos into just about everything, especially if you land both hits while falling, which is worth learning the timing of. It's definitely a bit different now with the range changes.

These combos could lead into some pretty crazy 0-death situations, or near to it.

Must. Lab. More.
Lol.

Also, even though fair has a limited true combo window to jab, it's still seems to string into jab somewhat easily even before 59%.

 

[Jterr]

Don't forget weak up tilt or falling up air to Forward Smash. That worked before 1.1.4, but now its even more reliable because the up tilt is faster now. And you might even get a tipper

 

[Malcolm Pickering]

I've just been messing around, how guaranteed is
f throw> dashing SH DB > Nair 1> Jab> to another sh DB nair jab?
Or f-throw to fair to jab to (sh DB nair jab) or (sh db upair uptilt)

or I guess is fthrow to anything guaranteed/plausible

 

[DariusM27]

I've just been messing around, how guaranteed is
f throw> dashing SH DB > Nair 1> Jab> to another sh DB nair jab?

Or f-throw to fair to jab to (sh DB nair jab) or (sh db upair uptilt)

or I guess is fthrow to anything guaranteed/plausible

To the first one, not very viable against someone good.

Second one, should work till lower mid percents.

And fthrow to fair is a true combo at low percents.

 

[Jink8]

Is down throw to u air true?