1.1.2 Future Patch Discussion

[Wintermelon43]

This thread is a thread on the future 1.1.2 patch. Discuss anything, from New potential stages/Characters (The Smash Broadcast in December) will most likely confirm 1 or 2 more characters alongisde Cloud), Balance Patch, ETC.

I made this, because, I figured a ton of thread would be made surroundigng this stuff, and I figured it would be best to have one discussion thread.

So, Discuss away!

FOR DUCK HUNT, VOTE RYU. I FORGOT TO ADD HIM, SO IF YOU WANT DUCK HUNT BUFFED, VOTE FOR RYU. I think it's safe to say nobody wants Ryu buffed

 

[David Viran]

I think no character changes and diddy's grab glitch will get fixed.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Woah...are we stuck in the past or something? This feels like deja vu.

 

[Hathaway12]

No sheik option? And you have 52 characters so missing a few other characters as well.

 

[Duplighost]

Palutena primarily. I love her and enjoy her more than playing with Sheik. If I had to give her a buff, I would give her the ability to move while using her tilts, as they are extremely slow and unsafe since she is immobile. She is a pretty underestimated character, and I think if that change was made to her she would be much better.

 

[RANDOM_Stranger]

Palutena, Marth, Megaman, Mewtwo and Lucas voter here.

I primely want to see Palutena buffed. Even though Duck Hunt maby deserv it the most. But I don't like Duck Hunts playstyle that much. Her frames. It hurts. It would also be cool if her F-tilt wasn't a 1 hit semi strong knockback move. And instead, was a multi hit move that draged the opponent (even shielded) and then pulled/knocked them away.

I think Marth doesn't need a explaining.

Megaman seem, robust. I don't know. There are rooms for improvments on him.

Mewtwo here is better than he was in melee. But not enough. He need better hitboxes and all what has been said in his character page.

I really like Lucas. But compare him to Ness, I really want Lucas to be at Ness level.

 

[Wintermelon43]

No sheik option? And you have 52 characters so missing a few other characters as well.

Sheik and ZSS were intently removed because anybody voting them are obvious trolls. Pit/Dark Pit and Marth/Lucina are the same option

 

[wedl!!]

ITT: "people who still think Mewtwo is bottom 3 because they don't understand how neutral game works"

I think no character changes and diddy's grab glitch will get fixed.

That was already removed like a week after 1.11 lol

 

[Hathaway12]

Sheik and ZSS were intently removed because anybody voting them are obvious trolls. Pit/Dark Pit and Marth/Lucina are the same option

Ok that makes sense it just seems hard to find somewhere to draw the line with other top characters. I did count pit/dark pit and marth/lucina as 2 each but didn't realize that you removed ZSS. So with 52 the 3 missing would be Shiek, ZSS, and Duck Hunt as you said in your first post.

I am pretty much ok with any of the bottom tier characters being buffed but would particularly would want to see Mewtwo buffed a little bit.

 

[xDizxy]

gets insane buffs.
sakurai trolls marth mains by not buffing him
hopefully he gets good buffs not pointless ones
will be added along with sector Z
As for stages I would like
Spear pillar
Fountain of dreams
Venom
New stage.
Also zss gets her up b nerfed

 

[Buffoon]

All I want for is tuning-up in a manner similar to what got in 1.0.8., I.E., lag reduction (in terms of start-up lag and endlag) and better frame data on numerous moves (On second thought, do that for everyone who needs).

For , I want the same as above, but with tweaks that further differentiates her from .

 

[The pig-keeper]

What Marth needs :

1. A DECENT DAIR (Lag reduction, bigger hitbox or active frame)
2. Lag reduction on U Smash
3. Do something with this D Smash animation that's just to slow and not accurate at all

What Lucina needs :

1. A grab game (F throw, D throw)

And by grab game, I mean that marth relies on his tipper to space his opponent making it quiet broken to give him a strong grab game.
Whereas Lucina has a shorter range and relies more on close combat as Roy and would benefit from a good grab game. Thus, Lucina could differentiate herself from Marth and gain popularity through a much more different gameplay.
And that would explain the Xeno-Falchion btw.

 

[pikazz]

I voted for and .
I want a similiar Ike Buff on both of them! they have some really bad framedata, no good killing moves.
sure they are good in some areas but in the other areas can be hugely improved

for both, I want a much better grab game
for Jr, I want his SideB having better Heavy Armor (it has already but really small)

 

[The pig-keeper]

I voted for and .
I want a similiar Ike Buff on both of them! they have some really bad framedata, no good killing moves.
sure they are good in some areas but in the other areas can be hugely improved

for both, I want a much better grab game
for Jr, I want his SideB having better Heavy Armor (it has already but really small)

Considering what BJ can do with his SideB, giving him extra armor would be definitely too strong.
And to be honest, I don't see how we can buff the SideB since it is already really good.

Like, I'd give a better cancel window on his jab so that it could be followed by a grab.
Because I feel like something has to be done around the grab.

 

[pikazz]

Considering what BJ can do with his SideB, giving him extra armor would be definitely too strong.
And to be honest, I don't see how we can buff the SideB since it is already really good.

Like, I'd give a better cancel window on his jab so that it could be followed by a grab.
Because I feel like something has to be done around the grab.

I mean more of the placement of the super armor.
his heavy armor is on the lowest part of the clown copter (on the tires) so he is only protected by reaaaally low attacks (banana peel/standing Gyro low) and a "shield from below using in air"

but if I would do, I would move/make it bigger so it atleast clown cart face is covered by the heavy armor aswell without changing the strenght of it! that means stuff like "Jabs, Falcos Lasers, Luigis Fire Ball, Marios Fire Ball (not highest peak since it hit Jr himself) and ZSS paralyser" will his the clown face instead. that will make a huuuge diffirent for Jr since that will make his approach game against "campy/projectile" people much more easier

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I'd like to see a few buffs to Mewtwo, Marth (seriously stop nerfing his Shield Breaker, he's already not that good), Falco, Meta Knight (just on range really because the hitbox dissonance is strong sometimes), maybe a few others.

 

[Omega-Xis49]

I'ld love to see a bit of a buff on , being my main in Sm4sh.
I'ld also enjoy more buffs for , , , , and .
As for DLC characters, well, I kinda would love to see Hades from KIU make it in.

 

[ChikoLad]

The character that sticks out to me as needing fixing is Mewtwo since he has so many hitboxes that don't work as they should.

In all honesty I am mostly happy with the game balance at this point, I mostly just want bad/confusing hitboxes fixed across the board. Rosalina's grab still is weird to me, doesn't seem to work as intended, especially dash grab.

 

[MarioMeteor]

The character that sticks out to me as needing fixing is Mewtwo since he has so many hitboxes that don't work as they should.

In all honesty I am mostly happy with the game balance at this point, I mostly just want bad/confusing hitboxes fixed across the board. Rosalina's grab still is weird to me, doesn't seem to work as intended, especially dash grab.

Rosalina in general needs help with her hitboxes. I consistently dash attack people who are good foot away from me.

What I want:
- Give him his old down throw back, but keep the nerfed Cyclone.
- Fix his hitbox:animation ratio, give the spike hitbox on his down air better placement, and decrease the knockback on all of his throws except for up throw.
- FIX HER.
- Increase the ending lag on her forward tilt and forward air and landing lag in the latter's case.
- Someway, somehow, make him not cancer.
- Give his jab more ending lag.
- Increase his mobility to at least around Brawl Luigi's level, recovery included, and make Doc Punch faster.
- Do what they did for Robin's jab to Falco's, make down smash and up smash stronger, decrease both of their end lags and remove the sourspot in down smash. And make down air faster and make it so that you can't whiff neutral air by doing it out of a jump. Cut down his Blaster's end lag, too.
- Lag reductions on all of her ground moves, and knockback increases on her smash attacks. Make up tilt's hitbox larger and decrease the knockback. Decrease down throws base knockback and scaling and dramatically increase up throw's scaling so that it can KO.
- Make him good.

What I expect:
- His aerials all come out on frame 1 and KO at 2%.
- Can no longer jump.

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina in general needs help with her hitboxes. I consistently dash attack people who are good foot away from me.

What I want:
- Give him his old down throw back, but keep the nerfed Cyclone.
- Fix his hitbox:animation ratio, give the spike hitbox on his down air better placement, and decrease the knockback on all of his throws except for up throw.
- FIX HER.
- Increase the ending lag on her forward tilt and forward air and landing lag in the latter's case.
- Someway, somehow, make him not cancer.
- Give his jab more ending lag.
- Increase his mobility to at least around Brawl Luigi's level, recovery included, and make Doc Punch faster.
- Do what they did for Robin's jab to Falco's, make down smash and up smash stronger, decrease both of their end lags and remove the sourspot in down smash. And make down air faster and make it so that you can't whiff neutral air by doing it out of a jump. Cut down his Blaster's end lag, too.
- Lag reductions on all of her ground moves, and knockback increases on her smash attacks. Make up tilt's hitbox larger and decrease the knockback. Decrease down throws base knockback and scaling and dramatically increase up throw's scaling so that it can KO.
- Make him good.

What I expect:
- His aerials all come out on frame 1 and KO at 2%.
- Can no longer jump.

That's because Rosalina's head is literally over a foot long and her space magic and Luma also boost the range.

I'm talking about hitboxes that don't match animations.

 

[MarioMeteor]

That's because Rosalina's head is literally over a foot long and her space magic and Luma also boost the range.

I'm talking about hitboxes that don't match animations.

I know, and that dash attack definitely doesn't match the animation. I mean, I get she's tall, but it's just ridiculous. Although, space magic is a pretty good explanation.
You know, I once got Focus Punched by Ryu from behind. He didn't reverse it.

 

[The pig-keeper]

- Someway, somehow, make him not cancer.

You got it right boy.

 

[ChikoLad]

I know, and that dash attack definitely doesn't match the animation. I mean, I get she's tall, but it's just ridiculous. Although, space magic is a pretty good explanation.
You know, I once got Focus Punched by Ryu from behind. He didn't reverse it.

There is literally a trail of space dust that indicates her range.

It's fair because you know where it hits.

 

[MarioMeteor]

There is literally a trail of space dust that indicates her range.

It's fair because you know where it hits.

If space dust is that powerful, you'd think she would be throwing out like confetti.

 

[ChikoLad]

If space dust is that powerful, you'd think she would be throwing out like confetti.

I would attribute the power to her head.

She is a Power class in sports games after all.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I would attribute the power to her head.

She is a Power class in sports games after all.

Space dust from her head. That's an oddly specific ability to have. The reason she's Power in most games is because of her height, like in Mario Kart Wii.

 

[Mad Space]

Greninja desperately needs some buffs. I mean at least give him a down throw combo. He has so much potential but Sakurai just keeps nerfing him.

 

[Lag Chan]

ANYTHING
Jolt Haymaker buffs, better grab
Better hitboxes
Too many to count
Generally better ground game
Overall improved kill power
Same as Duck Hunt
Same as Dedede
I wouldn't know exactly but something good.

 

[ChikoLad]

Space dust from her head. That's an oddly specific ability to have. The reason she's Power in most games is because of her height, like in Mario Kart Wii.

Or because she's just physically strong.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Or because she's just physically strong.

Well, I would hope so, she's pretty much God in a blue dress.

 

[momochuu]

Greninja desperately needs some buffs. I mean at least give him a down throw combo. He has so much potential but Sakurai just keeps nerfing him.

He got significant buffs twice in a row. Stop posting.

 

[EpicLuigiFan]

I said rosalina (she will never stop) Mii Sword (they never change) Luigi (hope for throw buff) Wii fit, G&W and Olimar (or as I call him oilman)

 

[Mad Space]

He got significant buffs twice in a row. Stop posting.

Yeah I guess he doesn't need buffs as much as some others on the cast do. Greninja's F-tilt got significantly better. How would you feel about a Megaman buff? He is my second choice for buffing.

 

[Rastaban]

I'd love to see Wii Fit and Marth/Lucina get some buffs.

 

[verbatim]

Can we distinctify between buffs and bug fixes, for instance, when I voted Pacman it had nothing to do with buffs so much as it did "why doesn't my hand have a hitbox during grab".


Also, one thing that I've liked in previous patches is the way simple changes have drastically improved certain characters (hi DK). IMO with a few simple changes you'd be seeing a lot more of these characters.

G&W: Dash Grab range increase (very slight), fair autocancels, bucket switches hitboxes, starts to absorb on frame 3, unleashes on frame 7.

G&W has a great downthrow game (true combo's 0->110%), an amazing kill move in jump canceled pivot up smash, and invincibility on the entirety of his up b. Where he ends up falling short is primarily the fact that he can't really shield grab a lot of moves that most characters can, that and his overall lack of safe poke options.

IMO the hitboxes on bucket are one of if not the stupidest implementations in Smash 4, at least from a competitive angle. The bucket being able to absorb stuff starting on frame 7 leaves a very small window for recording anything that isn't shot from the entire stage length away, and conversely, the attack coming out on frame 3 makes it impossible to powershield on reaction, part of the reason it's so damaging in doubles. If G&W could more reliably bucket things in the neutral, but had to actually hit with bucket on a hard read or out of a down throw combo, the move would both be a more significant aspect of his character in singles and be SIGNIFICANTLY less dumb in doubles.

Pit/Dark Pit: Dash Grab range increase (very slight)

Same situation but less drastic. The Pit's have a powerful neutral, a decent offstage game, mixups to aid their recovery, and a great anti-air move in up smash.

Ganondorf: Faster jab, untechable Flame Choke, can b-reverse down b

Ganondorf has a big issue with being unable to punish things out of a shieldblock if the opponent isn't in grab range, having a slightly faster jab would fit that and increase the overall utility of the move. Untechable Flame Choke is a thing from Brawl that, if implemented in Smash 4, would leave the opponent with no instant get out of jail free card and create a true tech chase situation. B-reversing down b is a personal thing, but it's also incredibly weird that he can't b-reverse it.

Duck Hunt: Fix his smash attacks

In the right circumstances characters can pop out of all 3 of Duck Hunt's smash attacks. Self explanatory.

Pacman: Fix his grab, STOP PATCHING THINGS OUT

I can't count the number of time's I've gotten punished trying to shieldgrab someone because Pacman's hands can't actually grab during the move. That the grab literally stops and starts working at fixed intervals before finishing isn't exactly ideal either, but I can understand why the move's design lends itself to that property.

 

[SherrdreamZ]

I guess as far as buffs I'd opt for and to get slightly less Endlag on their " grounded normals" (Zelda's D-tilt is ok, and Palu's U-tilt are ok awell).

For and i could see giving them better frame data overall, and for especially tweaking more hitboxes to better represent the animations.

And Finally / Just less Aerial endlag again on Nair and Dair it's borderline atrocious, why do they have more endlag then half the cast in the air?? Also PLEASE stop Nerfing Shield-Breaker. It went from a moderately useful option/tool to a Gimicky punish never worth charging. Anything to greater differentiate Marth and Lucina would be kind of nice.

 

[Vyrnx]

Buffs I would like for Samus:

Dair hitbox to match animation--As some Samus mains have pointed out, this would give Samus the best dair in the game, and that's totally fine... Seriously. The animation for this move is huge. It puts Ness' uair to shame. If only...

Something with dtilt--It's already good, but it could become one of our "staple" 1v1 moves again. My preference would be significantly less endlag (8ish frames off?) so it becomes a low risk move as opposed to medium-high risk. Or it could kill like Brawl, or it could be a better combo starter. One of these things.

Significant hurtbox readjustments for ftilt--remove the hurtbox from the foot, or at least the toe, increase the hitbox size.

Jab 1--Increase the hitbox size.

Grab--Her grab is awful, by far her worst move (I'm surprised that when people criticize Samus they talk about nair and dash attack, two good moves, and not her grab lol). Take 20 frames of end lag off or something. 30 frames off pivot grab. If not that, give her a kill throw or a better combo throw.


Other buffs she could get:
Fsmash--Increase number of active frames, slightly larger sweetspot.

Usmash--Still only works 90% of the time and you guys have tried like three freaking times... Just get it right.

Fair--early hits could link better

Dsmash--Make it not suck? But wouldn't be a very good buff at all.

Utilt--make untechable like Falco's dair (might be a bit extreme...)

Make jab connect--Lol, that's gonna happen.

Missiles--The buff Samus mains cry for all the time. Doesn't excite me at all. So many other moves I would have buffed first. Buffing this would move Samus towards boring and away from unique, niche, aggressive offense.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Buffs I would like for Samus:

Dair hitbox to match animation--As some Samus mains have pointed out, this would give Samus the best dair in the game, and that's totally fine... Seriously. The animation for this move is huge. It puts Ness' uair to shame. If only...

Something with dtilt--It's already good, but it could become one of our "staple" 1v1 moves again. My preference would be significantly less endlag (8ish frames off?) so it becomes a low risk move as opposed to medium-high risk. Or it could kill like Brawl, or it could be a better combo starter. One of these things.

Significant hurtbox readjustments for ftilt--remove the hurtbox from the foot, or at least the toe, increase the hitbox size.

Jab 1--Increase the hitbox size.

Grab--Her grab is awful, by far her worst move (I'm surprised that when people criticize Samus they talk about nair and dash attack, two good moves, and not her grab lol). Take 20 frames of end lag off or something. 30 frames off pivot grab. If not that, give her a kill throw or a better combo throw.


Other buffs she could get:
Fsmash--Increase number of active frames, slightly larger sweetspot.

Usmash--Still only works 90% of the time and you guys have tried like three freaking times... Just get it right.

Fair--early hits could link better

Dsmash--Make it not suck? But wouldn't be a very good buff at all.

Utilt--make untechable like Falco's dair (might be a bit extreme...)

Make jab connect--Lol, that's gonna happen.

Missiles--The buff Samus mains cry for all the time. Doesn't excite me at all. So many other moves I would have buffed first. Buffing this would move Samus towards boring and away from unique, niche, aggressive offense.

Ok so, I think you listed way to big of a change for Samus I mean, 20 frames off of a grab?

 

[Underhill]

: I say Doc's forward air needs few frames of startup removed so he can punch faster.
: I say give hitlag on his tornado a decrease, but not much. Down throw can stay the same.
: Her ground game needs work on decreasing endlag on her f-tile and down-tile for better frame data. Also, her down smash needs less endlag, but alittle to be more useful.

 

[IsmaR]

An official thread will be made/maintained when it is confirmed we'll be getting the next patch/DLC drop.

For now this is pure speculation/more like people listing their wishlists than actual predictions.