Sonicninja115
Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
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- Jul 8, 2015
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Does anyone miss the good ole days when everyone hated on Diddy? Well this new patch gave him a bit of a buff.
General Overview of Shield Changes:
1. Fair is safeish on shield.
2. Banana on shield can true into grab now if done correctly and the opponent doesn't perfect shield it.
3. Dtilt is safe on shield.
4. ZeRo made a Diddy video.
ZeRo and Dabuz also made a video trying to explain this patch, so go and check those out if you are having trouble.
What do you guys think?
General Overview of Shield Changes:
Shieldstun:
Perfect Shield: 1-3
Shield Lock (Can Jump, grab, roll and other OoS options): 4-11
Shield Drop (Time when the shield is gone and Diddy is experiencing lag): 12-18/19?
Shieldstun starts as soon as someones shield is hit. So if someone is hit on frame four of their shield by Diddy's Dsmash, then he cannot do any OoS options for about 8 frames. so it would then look like this.
1-3 Perfect Shield
4-11 Shield Lock
4-12 Shieldstun
13-20 Shield Drop Lag.
As you can see, shieldstun overlaps with shield lock. Causing shield lock to be meaningless.
If Diddy hits someone on frame 30 of their shield it will look like this.
1-3 Perfect Shield
4-11 Shield Lock
12-29 Shield
30-38 Shieldstun
39-46 shield drop
Any questions, please ask.
(Note: This assumes that the opponent just lets go as soon as they are hit to try to punish with a grab or DA.)
In general, this change affects OoS options and punishing. Making the game more aggressive and shieldbreak combos a thing.
This example only gives one extra frame, so it's not that big of a difference, but it is for other moves. Especially when spacing a Fair correctly.
Hitstun:Shield Lock (Can Jump, grab, roll and other OoS options): 4-11
Shield Drop (Time when the shield is gone and Diddy is experiencing lag): 12-18/19?
Shieldstun starts as soon as someones shield is hit. So if someone is hit on frame four of their shield by Diddy's Dsmash, then he cannot do any OoS options for about 8 frames. so it would then look like this.
1-3 Perfect Shield
4-11 Shield Lock
4-12 Shieldstun
13-20 Shield Drop Lag.
As you can see, shieldstun overlaps with shield lock. Causing shield lock to be meaningless.
If Diddy hits someone on frame 30 of their shield it will look like this.
1-3 Perfect Shield
4-11 Shield Lock
12-29 Shield
30-38 Shieldstun
39-46 shield drop
Any questions, please ask.
(Note: This assumes that the opponent just lets go as soon as they are hit to try to punish with a grab or DA.)
In general, this change affects OoS options and punishing. Making the game more aggressive and shieldbreak combos a thing.
This example only gives one extra frame, so it's not that big of a difference, but it is for other moves. Especially when spacing a Fair correctly.
Hitstun has now been changed so that both the Attacker and Defender have an equal amount of Hitstun when the Attacker hits a shield. This is probably to even out a slight disadvantage the defender had, because before this patch the attacker would come out a few frames earlier.
Decreased Shield HP:
Unconfirmed, but shields are breaking easier so something is up. Also, it takes about 10 seconds for a shield to charge from almost nothing to full.
Here are the numbers and my personal analysis on them.
Jab Finisher-
Shieldstun: 3
Hitbox Active: 10
FAF: 37
Frames on shield: -14/-18
Analysis: Not safe.
Dash Attack-Hitbox Active: 10
FAF: 37
Frames on shield: -14/-18
Analysis: Not safe.
Shieldstun: 3
Hitbox Active: 9/18/24
FAF: 46
Frames on shield: -12/-8
Analysis: Not safe.
Ftilt-Hitbox Active: 9/18/24
FAF: 46
Frames on shield: -12/-8
Analysis: Not safe.
Shieldstun: 7
Hitbox Active: 10
FAF: 37
Frames on shield: -13
Analysis: Sorta, no advantage with maybe a slight disadvantage.
Dtilt-Hitbox Active: 10
FAF: 37
Frames on shield: -13
Analysis: Sorta, no advantage with maybe a slight disadvantage.
Shieldstun: 5
Hitbox Active: 5
FAF: 19
Frames on shield: -7/ +/- 0
Analysis: This one is especially nice as most grabs are frame 5 or later. Attacks will always beat grabs if they clash, so even though it is -7 if the opponent isn't hit in shieldlock, it is still possible for it to be unpunishable as they need 5 frames to grab and another number to dash towards Diddy. Their only option might just be to roll away. But they only have 10 frames to do that, and if they mis-time it, they could get hit. Really safe, learn how to abuse it and how many times you can Dtilt someone's shield.
Utilt-Hitbox Active: 5
FAF: 19
Frames on shield: -7/ +/- 0
Analysis: This one is especially nice as most grabs are frame 5 or later. Attacks will always beat grabs if they clash, so even though it is -7 if the opponent isn't hit in shieldlock, it is still possible for it to be unpunishable as they need 5 frames to grab and another number to dash towards Diddy. Their only option might just be to roll away. But they only have 10 frames to do that, and if they mis-time it, they could get hit. Really safe, learn how to abuse it and how many times you can Dtilt someone's shield.
Shieldstun: 5
Hitbox Active: 6-11
FAF: 33
Frames on shield: assuming 6: -15/-13. Assuming 11: -10/-8
Analysis: Pretty good, not safe enough though. Better to use Dtilt, try using Utilt if you read their jump OoS as that could result in a stock at 140%.
Fsmash-Hitbox Active: 6-11
FAF: 33
Frames on shield: assuming 6: -15/-13. Assuming 11: -10/-8
Analysis: Pretty good, not safe enough though. Better to use Dtilt, try using Utilt if you read their jump OoS as that could result in a stock at 140%.
Shieldstun: 8
Hitbox Active: 24
FAF: 51
Frames on shield: -12
Analysis: Virtually unpunishable as the Smash will send the opponent back and they will have to dash into a grab/DA.
Dsmash-Hitbox Active: 24
FAF: 51
Frames on shield: -12
Analysis: Virtually unpunishable as the Smash will send the opponent back and they will have to dash into a grab/DA.
Shieldstun: 8
Hitbox Active: 7
FAF: 53
Frames on shield: -31
Analysis: Nope...
Usmash-Hitbox Active: 7
FAF: 53
Frames on shield: -31
Analysis: Nope...
Shieldstun: 5
Hitbox Active: 23
FAF: 54
Frames on shield: -19/-17
Analysis: Not really safe, punishable by an OoS option.
Hitbox Active: 23
FAF: 54
Frames on shield: -19/-17
Analysis: Not really safe, punishable by an OoS option.
Peanut Popgun-
Shieldstun: 3
Hitbox Active: 18
FAF: 49
Frames on shield: -21
Analysis: -21 means that the opponent is right next to Diddy, don't do that, it's dumb.
Rocket Barrels-Hitbox Active: 18
FAF: 49
Frames on shield: -21
Analysis: -21 means that the opponent is right next to Diddy, don't do that, it's dumb.
Shieldstun:
Hitbox Active:
FAF:
Frames on shield:
Analysis: You fly away, safe if you fly to the edge, unsafe otherwise. I'm not even gonna bother with the numbers.
Monkey Flip Kick-Hitbox Active:
FAF:
Frames on shield:
Analysis: You fly away, safe if you fly to the edge, unsafe otherwise. I'm not even gonna bother with the numbers.
Shieldstun: 10/8
Hitbox Active: 6-10
FAF: 30
Frames on shield: -3/-5
Analysis: Safeish, I don't know about landing lag. It is pretty safe on shield.
Banana-Hitbox Active: 6-10
FAF: 30
Frames on shield: -3/-5
Analysis: Safeish, I don't know about landing lag. It is pretty safe on shield.
Shieldstun: 4
FAF: I don't know if there is any lag if you JC it.
Frames on shield: +11/+14
Analysis: I am assuming that banana does 4 damage when thrown and that the banana throw has no lag. If it does it should be about 7 frames of throw lag, making it still be safe. Diddy might even be able to follow-up with a grab.
FAF: I don't know if there is any lag if you JC it.
Frames on shield: +11/+14
Analysis: I am assuming that banana does 4 damage when thrown and that the banana throw has no lag. If it does it should be about 7 frames of throw lag, making it still be safe. Diddy might even be able to follow-up with a grab.
Nair-
Shieldstun: 5
Hitbox Active: 8-20
Landing Lag: 13
Frames on shield: -1
Analysis: Safe, but try to avoid shieldgrabs.
Fair-Hitbox Active: 8-20
Landing Lag: 13
Frames on shield: -1
Analysis: Safe, but try to avoid shieldgrabs.
Shieldstun: 7
Hitbox Active: 6-9
Landing Lag: 26
Frames on shield: -12
Hitbox Active: 6-9
Landing Lag: 26
Frames on shield: -12
Analysis: Probably safe if spaced correctly and if Diddy DI's away after hitting the shield. If done correctly, it might only be a -1/-3.
Bair-
Shieldstun: 7
Hitbox Active: 5-8
Landing Lag: 12
Frames on shield: +2
Analysis: Really good, especially if spaced correctly.
Uair-Hitbox Active: 5-8
Landing Lag: 12
Frames on shield: +2
Analysis: Really good, especially if spaced correctly.
Shieldstun: 5
Hitbox Active: 4-7
Landing Lag: 21
Frames on shield: -8/-9
Analysis: Nope.
Dair-Hitbox Active: 4-7
Landing Lag: 21
Frames on shield: -8/-9
Analysis: Nope.
Shieldstun: 9/7
Hitbox Active: 17
Landing Lag: 28
Frames on shield: -12/-14
Analysis: Nope.
Hitbox Active: 17
Landing Lag: 28
Frames on shield: -12/-14
Analysis: Nope.
1. Fair is safeish on shield.
2. Banana on shield can true into grab now if done correctly and the opponent doesn't perfect shield it.
3. Dtilt is safe on shield.
4. ZeRo made a Diddy video.
ZeRo and Dabuz also made a video trying to explain this patch, so go and check those out if you are having trouble.
What do you guys think?
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