ZSGD - Now in 3D/HD

[David Viran]

Just read a thread about shields in this game. We should definitely look into this thread because it is relevant to our problem on shield. Sorry I don't have a link because I'm on my phone but it is in the 3ds and wii u competitive forum under shields in Smash 4.

 

[Dakpo]

I will check that out now. Thanks for the tip

 

[Jaxas]

Just read a thread about shields in this game. We should definitely look into this thread because it is relevant to our problem on shield. Sorry I don't have a link because I'm on my phone but it is in the 3ds and wii u competitive forum under shields in Smash 4.

Here, have a link.

 

[DeLux]

Brain storming topics, what video do you guys want to see next besides -

Minimizing Punishment from Disadvantageous Situations (landing, recovering, Shield Pressure) - 3 videos
Maximizing Punishment from Advantageous Situations (Grab, Dsmash, Flip Jump Grounded Foot Stool, Edge Guarding, Misc hit confirms) - 3 or 4 videos
Analysis on the Pros/Cons of Side Special 1, Side Special 3, and Zair - one or two videos
Competitive Mindset, Game Pacing and the Clock - one or two videos
Doubles Gimmicks

 

[coopreme]

Brain storming topics, what video do you guys want to see next besides -

Minimizing Punishment from Disadvantageous Situations (landing, recovering, Shield Pressure) - 3 videos
Maximizing Punishment from Advantageous Situations (Grab, Dsmash, Flip Jump Grounded Foot Stool, Edge Guarding, Misc hit confirms) - 3 or 4 videos
Analysis on the Pros/Cons of Side Special 1, Side Special 3, and Zair - one or two videos
Competitive Mindset, Game Pacing and the Clock - one or two videos
Doubles Gimmicks

@ DeLux Do you think you could compile a lot of these vids into a sticky here? I've made a lot of progress with ZSS, especially in 1v1, and would love to see other's guides/gameplay!

 

[DeLux]

Given I've only made two? Probably not yet lol

 

[pichuthedk]

In Barwl or Sm4sh?

it was both brawl and sm4sh but I don't play brawl anymore so I'm not salty about that, I am mainly salty that the game I won/might have still won he SD and was ness..
anyways salt x salt T.T.

@ DeLux
I was actually gonna post about that edge slip months ago and I pretty sure you can sneak in a bother down smash while on the group granted you are able to react close enough.

for my laser reset's my best punish has definitely been laser on edge -> drop through to laser -> fox trot over to down smash while on the ground still -> down smash again when they are forced to get up -> up b like 36% or some when all are fresh.
I'm just curious if the end lag change to laser doesn't give you enough time now.

on a side note made it out of pools at the national the come up here in Toronto now
hopefully don't get 0-2d in bracket wish me luck .

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

OOS Moves, i love to use:
Jab - extremely fast, when someone is directly in front of you
Ftilt - basically the same thing like Jab, but more range and a little slower
Utilt - if you are not really sure, if enemy is behind or in front of you. good, when enemy is using Dair or something in your shield
Up-B - still pretty careful with this move, but using it when i am sure, that it hits
Grab - shouldn't be overused, probably one of the best decision, if you are sure, that the shieldgrab really works

Ideas and more:
Dsmash (to Up-B or Fsmash) - It doesnt take THAT long OOS, if you have enough time to punish a laggy move, i can recommend it
Fsmash - Enemy goes up the ledge with an attack and you shield it, Fsmash is a good choice
Dash to Up-B - So this could be a big thing. Imagine the enemy is using a spaced move on your shield, but also kinda laggy, then ZSS can just shield drop, start running to the enemy and use Up-B

How is the Usmash OOS btw? We don't have to shield drop for that move, but i have the feeling it's not that fast anymore.

 

[pichuthedk]

up smash out of shield felt like it worked in a set I played vs a shiek but I was to busy getting massacred by the pressure should could deal out so fast,
Usmash OoS FOR SURE vs them heavies espeicaily if you can charge it for shield pokes.
I think I need to only jab OoS since that fair -> f-tilt stuff she has is very important for her damage rack up at low %s...god not to mention to needles and stuff.

you guys up for doing the shiek or Diddy MU next?

 

[Sovereign]

This just in: Delfino is one of ZSS's best stages.

Played Xiivi in tournament this weekend in GF for our weekly and got two very early kills off the top of Delfino. Once at 40-50% and the other at 60-70%.

IMO - ZSS has the best UpB in the game.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I did joke around with Zero Suit Samus earlier today.

Spoiler

Mr. Game & Watch made the mistake of giving Zero Suit Samus an abysmal rating of 1.

 

[DeLux]

Does anyone else feel like Boost Kick has RCO lag?

 

[NickRiddle]

Up-b has RCO lag if you get hit out of it.

 

[David Viran]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge but what does RCO lag mean?

 

[DeLux]

Up-b has RCO lag if you get hit out of it.

Yea I thought so, I'll have to do more testing on how to minimize the issues.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge but what does RCO lag mean?

RCO stands for Recovery Carryover Lag and basically means that if a recovery move fails, you will still have the landing lag from the move as soon as you land. This is a glitch from Brawl.

 

[Jaxas]

Does anyone else feel like Boost Kick has RCO lag?

Up-b has RCO lag if you get hit out of it.

****.

I was really looking forward to not having to deal with that as a Falco-main Marth-secondary from Brawl...

 

[ぱみゅ]

Up-b has RCO lag if you get hit out of it.

Welp.

 

[DeLux]

Pretty hype time for ZSS right now

Not sure on placing, but watching Officer Jenny put in work on VGBC for S@X.
Dakpo the Destroyer Doing Damage, Clark Badde III best ZSS NA

I came in 2nd to Shaky at our local bar tournament, beat darkrain plus others that don't main the game. For someone who has probably played like two smash wii for u tournaments in his life, his falcon was pretty freaking impressive. I kinda played like garbs today with an SD count of 5 from winners semis through GF.

We have our first tournament in a few months where the top KS players should be attending this Saturday, and I'll be streaming it at www.twitch.tv/LegendOfLux ! If I win or come in second at that tournament, I'll probably use the money to pay my gas money to go to the major in Las Vegas on Monday, so I really want to do well. The Wichita players are scary from the Brawl days of old, but I've been labbing pretty hard and have vowed not to drink for this tournament.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Pretty hype time for ZSS right now

Not sure on placing, but watching Officer Jenny put in work on VGBC for S@X.
Dakpo the Destroyer Doing Damage, Clark Badde III best ZSS NA

I came in 2nd to Shaky at our local bar tournament, beat darkrain plus others that don't main the game. For someone who has probably played like two smash wii for u tournaments in his life, his falcon was pretty freaking impressive. I kinda played like garbs today with an SD count of 5 from winners semis through GF.

We have our first tournament in a few months where the top KS players should be attending this Saturday, and I'll be streaming it at www.twitch.tv/LegendOfLux ! If I win or come in second at that tournament, I'll probably use the money to pay my gas money to go to the major in Las Vegas on Monday, so I really want to do well. The Wichita players are scary from the Brawl days of old, but I've been labbing pretty hard and have vowed not to drink for this tournament.

Just looked up some Officer Jenny games. Damn, her spacing with zair is impressive.
So many games to watch, so much stuff to learn.
Anyway, I wish you luck for your tournament.
May good reads come to you.

 

[DeLux]

Just looked up some Officer Jenny games. Damn, her spacing with zair is impressive.

Yea, her zair game stood out to me from what I've seen, which is pretty cool since I rarely to never use it since I'm not about that poking life and I like to get in there and make the magic happen.

So many games to watch, so much stuff to learn.

Yea, she seems to be a fan of the technical side of the character more than anything, with a lot of special reversals. I'd almost advocate reigning it in a bit on the tech skill at neutral and working on the technical aspects of the punish game, since that seems to be her weakest aspect.

Anyway, I wish you luck for your tournament.
May good reads come to you.

Thanks, but I'm more of a believer in "do your best" over "good luck" Ganbatte
Today's good read: Structure of Scientific Revolution - Thomas Kuhn. Read it, that will change your life lol

 

[ぱみゅ]

I love how you used "technical" with both meanings in that sentence

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Just wanted to leave this little combo here: http://youtu.be/jccfTZvXZ1k
Nair to Fair at higher % seems not to be always the best option. Also Nair to Uair can work btw.
Dunno, if you already know about this. Doesnt work, if enemy has good DI btw.

 

[DeLux]

People don't know that the combo is a standard BnB yet?

I actually had that on shaky at guaranteed percent last tournament and I flinched and did a safety Uair instead. Should have yolo'd it lol

You can also Landing Uair > SH/FH/IDJ Uair > Boostkick at absurd percents if you want to bring la bomba

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

You can also Landing Uair > SH/FH/IDJ Uair > Boostkick at absurd percents if you want to bring la bomba

Yeah, that is also really good.

Well I didn't watch any other ZSS, yet. Like to find out stuff for myself, but there are also not that much ZSS on streams nowadays? You may be one of the few people.

 

[DeLux]

Yeah, that is also really good.

Well I didn't watch any other ZSS, yet. Like to find out stuff for myself, but there are also not that much ZSS on streams nowadays? You may be one of the few people.

We need to really get a head count of the tournament threat ZSS players globally and start pushing the metagame collaboratively. Dakpo and I have been extremely productive I think bouncing ideas off each other and it tends to show I think in how developed our punish game tends to be (moreso dakpo, since my idea of developed is "go for it" at all times lol)

We have like -
Me in MW/KS
You in Europe
Dakpo in TX
Nick Riddle in FL
Choco in Japan

Anyone else?

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Someone said, Salem played ZSS once on stream.
Leon from Europe also plays ZSS!! He won't pick up Marth, because of obvious reasons. Like you, if I remember right?

There will be first videos from me at the end of December, will train until then, to give a good performance.

 

[DeLux]

Yea, I'm hoping we get more video so I can start putting together an analysis on how our metagame at neutral begins to develop. ZSS is such a beautifully but tragically flawed crafted character, and I'm curious to see how everyone works around it.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Yeah she is definitely not an easy character, one of the main reasons may be her grab. I guess one of her biggest problems will still be, how to deal with a shielding enemy. Let's find out some good Shield Pressure or workarounds.

 

[Jaxas]

People don't know that the combo is a standard BnB yet?

I actually had that on shaky at guaranteed percent last tournament and I flinched and did a safety Uair instead. Should have yolo'd it lol

You can also Landing Uair > SH/FH/IDJ Uair > Boostkick at absurd percents if you want to bring la bomba

Honestly, I feel like making a thread focused on 'BnB' combos (and what percents/weight classes they work on) would be really helpful.
I know I've been finding a bunch of combos myself, but I haven't seen many posted on here for easy reference

 

[NickRiddle]

Lost to Diddy Kong/Olimar yesterday.
First time playing Diddy, so I'll excuse myself.
**** Olimar though. Feels like Brawl, minus our armor and + Olimar's absolutely incredible recovery.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

People don't know that the combo is a standard BnB yet?

I actually had that on shaky at guaranteed percent last tournament and I flinched and did a safety Uair instead. Should have yolo'd it lol

You can also Landing Uair > SH/FH/IDJ Uair > Boostkick at absurd percents if you want to bring la bomba

I'm so bad at hitting up B in the air. I should really work on that >.>; I should really get to events too, but I'll be too poor until summer.

 

[Vinylic.]

I guess I got the basics of ZSS down. I'm keeping an eye out for any useful info. I might need it.

Yoshi is so easy to beat with this character, but I'd like some pointers on a match with kirby and jigglypuff.

 

[M@v]

How do you properly DI out of ZSS's Upb? I've had enough of dying to 50% to it when I'm all over zero suits, then they get one upair chain and all of a sudden I'm dead. I've done it before on accident but i don't know the actual angle.

 

[M@v]

The move leaves you wide open if you miss/don't hit with its last, strong hit. I know its DIable; i've done it before on accident. I'll be a lot less salty about it when I can SDI it then get a free punish on them for it.

 

[LordFluffy]

How do you properly DI out of ZSS's Upb? I've had enough of dying to 50% to it when I'm all over zero suits, then they get one upair chain and all of a sudden I'm dead. I've done it before on accident but i don't know the actual angle.

I assume you're talking about a battlefield esc stage then? because dying at 50% means she got you super high up before landing that.
DI on up B will only work if 1 of the 7 hits before the last doesn't connect from what i can tell. The angle is also a mystery to me. i see some of my opponents hold Diagonal down away from or towards ZSS, Horizontal away or diagonal down away seems to be the most effective way but escaping it basically comes down to luck if she wifs 1 or more of the upward strikes before the power kick. even still, ZSS can move forward or backwards during the move so if done right she can track the DI and follow with it. pretty hard to escape when it's done right. if SDI was still around i would've said SDI Up so the last kick wiffs.

but not when she used it below you after an u air string., her fastfall > my characters fast fall so it's practically unpublishable if she uses it underneath me.

Really does depend on your character. several characters FF fast enough to punish her if the last kick wiffs. Palutena in general though doesn't have many punish options for that at all since most of her moves have ridiculous startup time. the best you're gonna get is a grab or jab really.

 

[DeLux]

I came in top 16 at this 200+ regional on WC. Lost to Zex (Sheik), Zero (Diddy), and Nexus (Sheik). I feel like I played every Sheik in the venue, that MU is pretty rough LOL

It felt like I might have been the only ZSS player in the venue.

Played so many awesome players though! Admittedly I was debating converting to Diddy fully if I didn't make it out of pools (top 32) at the event, but after today I'm more convinced I'm a bigger limitation than the character. I also have a pretty clear direction on where I need to work on things.

I'm so bad at hitting up B in the air. I should really work on that >.>; I should really get to events too, but I'll be too poor until summer.

I think the secret to hitting boost kick is to miss it 10 times in practice for every one time you hit it in tournament.

 

[LordFluffy]

I came in top 16 at this 200+ regional on WC. Lost to Zex (Sheik), Zero (Diddy), and Nexus (Sheik). I feel like I played every Sheik in the venue, that MU is pretty rough LOL

It felt like I might have been the only ZSS player in the venue.

Played so many awesome players though! Admittedly I was debating converting to Diddy fully if I didn't make it out of pools (top 32) at the event, but after today I'm more convinced I'm a bigger limitation than the character. I also have a pretty clear direction on where I need to work on things.

I know that feeling. My first event i made it out of pools (top 16 for this) and i couldn't find another ZSS at all. shiek and rosa both knocked me out. both those matchups don't feel 50/50. managable but not even. but again it could come down to being not as good as my opponents. it usually does.

 

[David Viran]

I came in top 16 at this 200+ regional on WC. Lost to Zex (Sheik), Zero (Diddy), and Nexus (Sheik). I feel like I played every Sheik in the venue, that MU is pretty rough LOL

It felt like I might have been the only ZSS player in the venue.

Played so many awesome players though! Admittedly I was debating converting to Diddy fully if I didn't make it out of pools (top 32) at the event, but after today I'm more convinced I'm a bigger limitation than the character. I also have a pretty clear direction on where I need to work on things.




I think the secret to hitting boost kick is to miss it 10 times in practice for every one time you hit it in tournament.

Congrats Delux, the sheik MU is weird because she wins in neutral but we are better at most everything else like damage output, mobility, and kill potential.

 

[NickRiddle]

LUx, just up-b OOS to beat Sheik.