ZSGD - Now in 3D/HD

[IsmaR]

Global Rules apply, obv.

1. ) - This thread is for all gameplay, meta, and generally all things ZSS in SMASH 4 3DS/WII U. Impressions and questions are welcome.

2. ) - I will say this exactly once. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES IS THIS THREAD THE PLACE TO DISCUSS HER APPEARANCE/SEXUALIZATION, THE FEMINISM IMPLICATIONS OR DEBATES, OR HOW STUPID/UGLY/WHATEVER THE HEELS ARE. Other M's train wreck aside, Samus is still Samus in this game. This game is rated E10+, she's in it, deal with it and as such the discussion should remain appropriate for that. Posts breaking this rule will be deleted/warned.

2.A ) - On that note, we do not speak about Other M nor the future of Metroid here. Not that anyone should want to.
​

3. ) - If there's a specific topic you want to go in depth about, chances are there's already a thread about it. And if there isn't, feel free to make one. It's fine to bring it up in here, but remember this thread will be a general overview of the character, so don't be surprised if it gets swept under the rug fairly quickly.

4. ) - If it's not obvious after all these rules, this is NOT A SOCIAL THREAD. As soon as one is made, I'll link it here for good measure.
Edit: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-zero-suit-samus-in-shorts-social.324218/

5. ) - SIS/SIHSO (Samus in her Shorts Outfit) players are also welcome.

-

With all that out of the way, I'll throw out the basic/obvious questions to get started.

What do you think of Zero Suit Samus in this game thus far? Was she done justice?
Will she be better off or worse with the moveset and mechanic changes? Were the changes/buffs/nerfs necessary?
Will she fare better or worse competitively? What competition does she face now from newcomers/vets?
What stages do you think ZSS will thrive on? Are there any that either she can exploit/use to cover her weaknesses?

 

[Manthisis]

1. Which is better for racking up percentages: Down throw into fair (which is the double kick, I think), or down throw into uair?

2. Is going for a grounding with your down-special a viable tactic when playing, or is it just something that sometimes happens and you really shouldn't try and go for it?

 

[Joanny]

I'm adding one, how do we do to run on one direction then turn back with a neutral special directly without the sliding lag.

 

[NickRiddle]

1. If the opponent is at a % where you can do a follow-up after the uair, then it's better. Go for fair if that's all you can get out of it.
2. Grounding people is going to be viable early on in the game's life, but will lose reliability as people get better.

Joanny, run, input B or whatever button you use for specials, and then input back.

 

[Joanny]

Thanks NickRiddle ! That's hard to success it at 100% but it worked.
I'm going to train that.

 

[NickRiddle]

All it takes is some practice, you'll get it down.

 

[Cancel]

i will try and practice this as well as soon as i get it. Any easier way to do this would be good if found out.

 

[LawCorazon]

First smash game i have taken seriously and i am enjoying zss a lot. Are there any viable combos and good killing moves besides up air?

 

[Cubonebonebone]

First smash game i have taken seriously and i am enjoying zss a lot. Are there any viable combos and good killing moves besides up air?

Yeah, I came to ask this question too. I really enjoy ZSS but the only kill move I frequently use is up b. It's really good but I feel like there should be more options for killing that I'm not utilizing.

 

[Jaxas]

So I've been really excited about ZSS for a couple of months now, and playing her is awesome, but I'm running into some major problems killing.

Fsmash doesn't kill until very high percents (and is fairly slow), none of the Flip Jumps seem to kill well, SideB no longer kills, leaving her only really reliable kill-move as Uspecial (especially OoS).
I've found that people are able to sometimes get out of the last hit of UpB though, which makes even that a bit less useful.

Should I just wait for the Wii U version where Bair is a lot more of a thing before I look into her seriously as a secondary, or am I missing something?

Thanks!

 

[Whatthefluff]

UpB, fsmash, fair, bair, and downB have all worked for me as kill moves. Dsmash into upB or fsmash might be most effective. Otherwise I like downB for aerial kills, but it can be hard to land. Fair and bair don't work too well until high %s.

I don't know if this works for other characters but when it comes to matchups I had something to say about ZSS vs. Rosalina. I played several matches against one earlier and eventually found out that keeping her in the air might be the best way to fight her. Rosalina seems to win most ground trades against ZSS. Any thoughts?

 

[CupofT]

If you can get the aerial chase I try for u-air at 90%+ or so for a KO. If my opponent is not air dodging then I will try for up-B aerial chase as well.


For ZSS grabs, what are some good options for low % (0-20) and high % (100+) grabs? For low % I try to back throw and try the downB followup from the video one of the other threads. At high % I throw them off stage and try to keep them away from the stage with b-air and f-air but that usually doesn't work as that well for me as I have a tough time reading my opponent's off stage movement and can't land the aerials.

 

[K Buns]

Liking zss a lot. She's an extremely strong character phenomenal aerial mobility and a strong ground game. Zair to grab approach is solid and hard to punish. Great juggle game can lead to decently early kills off of a down throw with up airs into a well spaced up-b. Her punish game is ridiculously good due to her downsmash. She's just good yo.

 

[BraveFantasy]

If you can get the aerial chase I try for u-air at 90%+ or so for a KO. If my opponent is not air dodging then I will try for up-B aerial chase as well.


For ZSS grabs, what are some good options for low % (0-20) and high % (100+) grabs? For low % I try to back throw and try the downB followup from the video one of the other threads. At high % I throw them off stage and try to keep them away from the stage with b-air and f-air but that usually doesn't work as that well for me as I have a tough time reading my opponent's off stage movement and can't land the aerials.

I always try for down throw period. At low percents dthrow to fair is a true combo (according to training mode anyway). It's a little DI dependent but as long as you can react fast enough this will almost always link low percents. High percents I still like to use down throw since if they DI wrong the fair followup is still possible. Also on opponents with bad or no DI at high percents you can dthrow and full hop up-b for an easy kill 90+, kind of similar to what K Buns said, but generally after you land an up air to up-b once, your opponent won't let it happen again since it's easy to DI out of that setup. If your opponent is DI'ing your dthrow well in the higher percents, then just use whatever throw fits the situation. As for landing the aerials, just keep trying. If you really can't get it though try and set up landing traps at the very least. Don't forget that your neutral-b can stun in the air. If you catch someone trying to recover eye level with the stage, stun them and then down-b for an easy meteor. You can try for the attack version of down b, and if you manage to hit in the correct spot it's an even stronger meteor, maybe a spike? Can someone confirm this? And if you don't land the stronger meteor if your opponent is high enough percents it could still kill. Or you could just let them recover low for free and just wait on the stage and punish their recovery. Watch how they recover from ledge the first time, and then counter it the second time if they try it again.

Also K Buns, I found myself using uncharged neutral-b a lot into grab. if the neutral-b lands then a dash grab can almost always get your opponent before they can mash out, and if they shield neutral b you can still dash grab and it generally works as long as it's not abused. An opponent sitting in shield is easy for zss to grab with her long range. also i'm really liking zair as well. it has multiple uses. the main one being spacing of course. you can also use it offstage on far recovering opponents to force their double jump, and then jump into them with fair for easy kills. just be careful to only do this when your opponent is still high up, since if they're level with the stage or lower than the stage chances are you'll get your kill, but won't be coming back yourself.

First post successful! I'm going to try and be around a lot, and I'm always interested in others opinions and theories, so together let's all try and advance the zss meta as quickly as possible! ^^

Now I'm off to the Marth board to try and prove he isn't as terrible as everyone says.

 

[Pwii]

Does anyone else think Zamus destroys lil Mac? I played against this one guy and kept doing pivot side-bs*, which absolutely destroy his approaches. Not to mention the crazy juggle game, along with lil mac not being able to go offstage to edgeguard without getting stomped.

*idk about this terminology. You can do side specials, smashes, and tilts and stuff out of the turning/slide animation similarly to pivots, so I've been calling it pivots.

 

[Ragnorok_Kitty]

New player, my impressions so far.

Her dash attack is great. Sometimes you can even juggle people with it. Usually doesn't combo into much since people are at weird angles and see Up B coming. I actually have been using Up B less and less and as a finisher because it just leaves you way too open if you miss. Neutral A is also amazing. Great damage and a good follow up if they rolled away from your dash attack.

I actually like Side B. It's has a slow start up but does decent damage and can knock people way the hell away from the edge if they are trying to recover. Also good for people who charge right into it. Slowly starting to use Neutral B more today. It catches people off guard and sometimes lets me get in a side smash.

Falling in love with Down B. I barely used this until mainly today and it's a great killer that people do not see coming. Good for picking people out of the air trying to recover and spiking them off the screen. Sometimes the footstool is nice too.

Still getting the hang of Utilt, Dtilt, and Ftilt.

I never use down smash. Maybe I'll find times to use it. Up smash is good too, I should use it more often.

Still learning guys

 

[TrollheartBlue]

Does anyone else think Zamus destroys lil Mac? I played against this one guy and kept doing pivot side-bs*, which absolutely destroy his approaches. Not to mention the crazy juggle game, along with lil mac not being able to go offstage to edgeguard without getting stomped..

ZSS is a beast against Lil Mac because he has such a hard time approaching. The projectile speed of your Zap is perfect for forcing them to shield which can easily be followed up by a grab. If you're out of range, zap --> walk slightly closer. Side - B is decent for reads (e.g. A lot of little macs I've played like to approach then roll back). Mix it up, don't go to aggressive.

One huge advantage against little mac in any matchup is that his counter is non-recoverable (correct me if I'm wrong). A lot of players will use this to slow down in air or prevent follow ups in air. If they're facing away from the stage and you're at low enough damage, purposely hit them and watch as they fall to their death.

 

[Sovereign]

Just Dthrow into UpB against Lil Mac and he'll eventually be too far away to safely recover.

 

[Cancel]

Just Dthrow into UpB against Lil Mac and he'll eventually be too far away to safely recover.

Really now, i will have to try that out for myself.

 

[LawCorazon]

Rolling in this game is so good and some characters seem to get away with it more than others. Have any of you found ways to bait and punish them? I tend to use dsmash as a punish to it but im sure there are other ways.

 

[Daisy101]

space zone them, run grab can help a lot too.if they Dash you, use UP-tlits.

 

[Dakpo]

Can you change this thread's title to have something along the lines of "Zero Suit Samus General Discussion Thread" . I had no idea we even had a general discussion thread and Im sure a lot of other people (especially new people) will not find this thread because the title is in acronyms

 

[bksbestbwoy]

I'm curious to find out what customs everyone's using and reasoning behind those choices. I'm juggling a bunch of side characters since I can't Marth on the 3DS to save my life, but ZSS is a character I'm strongly considering to promote to a mainstay in my 3 main max rotation.

Why 3? Easier number of characters to deal with.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

I've been using Side B#3 mostly with friends.

It has various tradeoffs, but I find at over 90% landing it usually gets a kill, which is one of my biggest issues with ZSS atm.

The positions based on percentages/vectoring get you either a FAir, an Up B, or a Back Air.

I want to test Down B#2 (Divekick) also but for right now the default with the footstool mechanic is so strong a versatile I don't really see a reason to change it.

On another note, have you guys seen the frame data for ZSS's aerials floating around the net? If that's accurate, this character is bonkers. For reference:

Air Dodge: -15 Frames (2nd best in the game. Only Wii Fit is better with -12. Most of the cast is -22)
NAir: -10 (Ranked 3rd. Megaman is best with 0 and Lucario with -9)
FAir: -16 Frames
BAir: -11 Frames (Ranked 2nd, behind Link with -10)
Up Air: -9 Frames (Best in the game)
DAir: -30 Frames

She's pretty much the average case or better (in some cases the best) in almost every category. Seems like a really solid/safe character to me. Thoughts?

 

[bksbestbwoy]

That in combination with her mobility might explain why I felt like she was my second favorite character to play overall in this roster. First being Greninja.

 

[LawCorazon]

Yeah she is a jack of all trades character. I just can't wait for the Wii u version so I can have better control of her with a pad.

 

[pichuthedk]

Yeah she is a jack of all trades character. I just can't wait for the Wii u version so I can have better control of her with a pad.

Your telling me so far my for glory record is sitting at 92.03% with 416 wins 36 losses probably half of those losses are because i clearly wanted to just randomly up b far away from the stage and not side b tether to the ledge.... =/ zzzzz Input/delay johns are real on the 3ds...

 

[Daisy101]

Controls are fine, it meant with the GC Controller it be 10x time more better. totally agreed.

OT: Stats wont really matter, i can still 2 stocked most of the players still.

 

[yahooda]

The main method I use to kill with ZSS is Smash attacks. I recommend using primarily up smash for kills when the opponent is standing on a platform directly above you, but not using the f-smash unless you have a guaranteed hit on the opponent (Ex: after stunning them with your d-smash or neutral-b) because the f-smash is very easily punishable. Another really fun way to kill is following up with down-b after knocking the opponent of the stage a bit, if you land on them with this move they get spiked. It's just a bit tricky to pull off.

 

[LawCorazon]

Your telling me so far my for glory record is sitting at 92.03% with 416 wins 36 losses probably half of those losses are because i clearly wanted to just randomly up b far away from the stage and not side b tether to the ledge.... =/ zzzzz Input/delay johns are real on the 3ds...

My name is John.
I cry evertim :'(

 

[NickRiddle]

U-smash kills people? Eww.

 

[Daisy101]

U-smash kills people? Eww.

around 160 180% i believe.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Or.... you could just land an Up B/F-Smash/Down B/BAir/FAir/Up Air like a good 50% before then...?

 

[Kef]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but you can reduce the recovery of her Custom Neutral-B #2 by Uair before landing (so you get 9 frames of landing lag instead). The Uair doesn't hit, but you reduce a lot of the lag.

- Rising SH B > Uair

 

[pichuthedk]

Controls are fine, it meant with the GC Controller it be 10x time more better. totally agreed.

OT: Stats wont really matter, i can still 2 stocked most of the players still.

Yeah i Knew just johning on why I lose to projectile spamming link when i had a 60% deficit on him T.T the one thing I will be excited for with GC controllers is making the Robins my B!#$% with the infinite that crap is so hard to do on the circle pad i can barely get 3 full rotations Including an extra downsmash before they get up in a real match D:.

 

[Keldrig]

I've got a question about facing spammers, sorry if this was asked somewhere else, redirect me!

I can't seem to win against those Jigglypuffs or Sheiks any other characters that keep doing those small jumps and back-A kicks. They spam it non stop and I can't get close to them. My neutral B gets dodged easily since they're always jumping and, obviously, I can't grab them. When I try to go in the air to get them, my jumps are usually a tad bit higher and I miss all my attacks while they hover very close to the ground and keep on spamming the same jump+backA move. Any tips to deal with those players? I currently have a 70% win rate, I can hold up against most players, but I can't seem to be able to deal with this specific type of spamming.

 

[Daisy101]

@ K Keldrig Have you try to B forwards, its a great tool for zone/space. when someone got hit by your quick neutral B, you can do a follow grab instant.

 

[DeLux]

What's the landing lag on her zair?

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

No body bothered to test it it seems.

Just eyeballing it, I'd say ~10 frames. It recovers faster than FAit that's for sure.

 

[DeLux]

Ok, so the air dodge time would be irrelevant since we can just 10 frame air dodge > zair into the ground every time?