Why Greninja getting into Smash Bros makes sense (whether you like it or not)

[The Suit-less Ace]

Definately does NOT deserve a spot. Why do they ALWAYS pick popular pokemon to be in it. Why not add tanky/slow pokemon? There is nothing wrong with having a slow character. Also, they give pokemon a totally wrong representation to their real pokemon stats. Pikachu has base 90 speed. That is definately NOT a speedy pokemon yet in smash, he is one of the fastest. Pikachu has 50/55 attacks in pokemon. Those attacks stats are mediocre in pokemon but in smash, it hits pretty hard. If pikachu hits that hard, I wonder if they add pokemon with a trully high stat like over 130. Same goes with speed. Greninja is very fast with 122. Yet in the reveal video, it didnt seem as fast as I would expect. He does run fast but the attacks not so much.

I would wish other slower/tankier pokemon gets some exposure instead of the kiddie's favorites.

Ok first of all, Greninja has base 123 speed, not 122.

But I do really think Greninja deserves the spot, since he is so iconic and one of the most popular gen 6 pokemon. They have to add popular pokemon, because they are there to represent the game of pokemon, you aren't going to have Mawile and Pangoro to represent the series as a whole, so why not use the most popular gen 6 pokemon, it works out well. And if you think they've never added pokemon with over base 130 stats, take a look at Mewtwo with 154 special attack and 130 speed (I think that's it). Speaking of stats in relation to smash, keep in mind that smash isn't really canon, such as Olimar being much larger than he really is and Pikachu being larger than he really is. That's just SSB. Also, I'd say Greninja's speed in smash looks really high and it represents him very well. And not only is he top tier in pokemon but he'll probably be top tier in smash as well.

 

[Morbi]

Yes and no. I believe that Greninja is a worthy candidate and one of the more prominent starter Pokemon; he also has recency to combat the relevance of more prevalent Pokemon such as Blaziken. However, I feel as though Blaziken was the more ideal choice. I can't help but believe that Greninja was chosen over Blaziken because of their typing (which is attributable to Greninja's unique move-set). However, with the success of X and Y; a real representative (i.e. not Mewtwo) does deserve to be in the game. Honestly, Pokemon didn't necessarily need another representative that doesn't offer anything revolutionary. He is a pick similar to Rosalina, I like both characters, I will play both characters, they just don't feel like "all-stars."

 

[Orngeblu]

I don't think it matters whether he is deserving of the spot or not, he's in and he looks great, and unique.

 

[Louie G.]

I do believe that Greninja deserved this spot. He's essentially the Charizard of gen 6.
In fact I'm surprised it took us this long to realize how likely Greninja was in the first place. He's the most popular gen 6 Pokémon, he has a lot of unique potential, he's a dev favorite, etc.
The main reason I shot him down in the past is because I thought all starters deserved equal treatment, but the inclusion of Solo-Zard and Greninja changed my mind.

 

[Morbi]

I do believe that Greninja deserved this spot. He's essentially the Charizard of gen 6.
In fact I'm surprised it took us this long to realize how likely Greninja was in the first place. He's the most popular gen 6 Pokémon, he has a lot of unique potential, he's a dev favorite, etc.
The main reason I shot him down in the past is because I thought all starters deserved equal treatment, but the inclusion of Solo-Zard and Greninja changed my mind.

A lot of people realized he was likely; the mistake they made was attempting to establish that he would be in another trio, the Kalos Trainer.

I don't think it matters whether he is deserving of the spot or not, he's in and he looks great, and unique.

Exactly, I want to say that he is reminiscent of Sheik, but the element of water wasn't really touched on in any other character (aside from Squirtle, who is now cut). Honestly, he looks like a fun and cohesive character, so it is irrelevant that he may or may not have deserved it.

 

[Arcanir]

Is he really that much more popular than Honedge/Aegislash? Would they not have made more unique and less expected newcomers?
This isn't rhetorical, I'm asking out of genuine curiosity since everything I've heard has lead me to assume that Greninja's popularity was second to the Aegislash line. I have no real preference myself, since everything after gen 2 held no interest for me.

Aegislash is more popular competitively, but based on overall popularity, Greninja is a lot more popular based on what is seen from polls and the like.

 

[ryuu seika]

There's a church of Goomy, so why not him?
But seriously, a floating sword? It wouldn't work well in Smash. The only reason Charizard works is because he has feet and can stand on the ground. A character that floats above ground on its idle would be rather dumb if it fell to its death.

Consider Mewtwo.
I get your point though, maybe the sash could act as a foot? IDK, it seems a bit of a stretch TBH.

 

[DraginHikari]

Given that the term deserving is pretty opinionated to begin with, it's basically a question without a define answer. We know Sakurai looks at things related to the anime and input from the Pokemon Company. For whatever reason this is the decision that was made, it may not of even had anything to do with how much the character 'deserved' to be in the game but may have just been a decision. We probably will never know.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm...
In my opinion, no. I think that a more demanded character should have gotten in over Greninja.
Yet, those thoughts are overshadowed by Greninja itself. Its moveset and trailer sold the character to me and I personally can't wait to play as Greninja.
I'm perfectly fine with it getting in, especially when I like Greninja (I used one in X).

 

[juddy96]

The thing with Greninja is that he's only six months old, and hasn't had enough time to gather notoriety. He's definitely one of the most popular 6th gen Pokemon and I hope GameFreak uses him a lot.

Lucario 2.0. Except a completely different pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

It makes me think that Sakurai knew about Greninja when he was making the roster and he saw potential in it. Thus, he decided to make Greninja playable.
That or Game Freak recommended Sakurai to use Greninja in Smash. One connection that I can see is that Ash has a Froakie, who later evolves into Greninja, in the anime and he used to have a Charizard. I can see Game Freak pushing Greninja in the future as the next big starter Pokemon.

 

[Greninja]

Yes, the single best Pokemon in the series, Greninja

 

[Souless_shadow]

I do believe that Greninja deserved to be playable. He was the most popular pokemon from 6th gen and there are lots of moveset possibility for him.

 

[Tepig2000]

Since Charizard can be considered deserving just because he is a cool looking starter, I don't see any problem with Greninja being chosen for the same reason.

 

[Jesus castro]

Ok first of all, Greninja has base 123 speed, not 122.

But I do really think Greninja deserves the spot, since he is so iconic and one of the most popular gen 6 pokemon. They have to add popular pokemon, because they are there to represent the game of pokemon, you aren't going to have Mawile and Pangoro to represent the series as a
whole, so why not use the most popular gen 6 pokemon, it works out well. And if you think they've never added pokemon with over base 130 stats, take a look at Mewtwo with 154 special attack and 130 speed (I think that's it). Speaking of stats in relation to smash, keep in mind that
smash isn't really canon, such as Olimar being much larger than he really is and Pikachu being
larger than he really is. That's just SSB. Also, I'd say Greninja's speed in smash looks really high and it represents him very well. And not only is he top tier in
pokemon but he'll probably be top tier in smash as well.

If its like that then why doesnt Bowser and other heavy characters have some sort of ability to shrug off weak attacks? I mean, in many mario games, when mario
attempts to use his normal attacks used throughout the game on a final battle against bowser, most of the time bowser will remain completely unaffected. Mario must find an alterate way to hit him. Like those spam punches or kicks characters like kirby, the starfox trio, pikachu etc, do
you really think those hilariously weak attacks are going to stun the brute of bowser? Project m fixed that with some nice super armor and no flinching on weak attacks.



Oh, and greninja wasnt the popular pokemon of gen 6. It was the mega evos. Specifically, blaziken. Blaziken was, if im not mistaken, the first mega revealed AND got an event which was the distribution of torchic with the mega stone at the launch
of x and y.

Blaziken:
Had own event
Way more popular than greninja
Received mega evo



Greninja:
Popularity started just because had a new ability protean. Thats it.

Blaziken should of taken the role not ninja. And this is coming from a person who deeply hates blaziken with a passion (I also hate greninja too though).

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

If its like that then why doesnt Bowser and other heavy characters have some sort of ability to shrug off weak attacks? I mean, in many mario games, when mario
attempts to use his normal attacks used throughout the game on a final battle against bowser, most of the time bowser will remain completely unaffected. Mario must find an alterate way to hit him. Like those spam punches or kicks characters like kirby, the starfox trio, pikachu etc, do
you really think those hilariously weak attacks are going to stun the brute of bowser? Project m fixed that with some nice super armor and no flinching on weak attacks.



Oh, and greninja wasnt the popular pokemon of gen 6. It was the mega evos. Specifically, blaziken. Blaziken was, if im not mistaken, the first mega revealed AND got an event which was the distribution of torchic with the mega stone at the launch
of x and y.

Blaziken:
Had own event
Way more popular than greninja
Received mega evo



Greninja:
Popularity started just because had a new ability protean. Thats it.

Blaziken should of taken the role not ninja. And this is coming from a person who deeply hates blaziken with a passion (I also hate greninja too though).

Smash is not canon to the games.

So you think megas should represent gen 6 more than than Greninja? I think they did enough of that with Lucario and Charizard. You know Greninja was well liked before he even came out, before people even knew protean existed. He's cool with his shurkans and tounge scarf and I don't really see a reason to not have him. Greninja is just a cool pokemon with a lot of thought put in, and unlike Charizard and Mewtwo, Greninja's fame came without much support, and Greninja's fanbase is going to be happy that he is in the game. Blaziken doesn't really deserve this spot much since Greninja is from gen 6 and Sakurai also did that with Brawl as well with Lucario.

Greninja:
+Unique Water/Dark tpye
+Bad*** Ninja
+Signature move water shurkan which no one else can learn
+Protean as hidden
+Popularity rose without much support and will now rise a lot due to confirmation
-No mega evolution

Blaziken:
+Mega Evo
+Event
+In anime often
-Common starter type
-Blaze kick can be learnt by many

This is really what I consider good and bad. Greninja just fits the slot better and is a good way to represent gen 6, not with Blaziken. We already have two of the most prominent megas and there will be 3 when Mewtwo is most likely revealed. Mewtwo and Charizard's megas are more popular thatn Blaziken's

 

[[TSON]]

overrated Mewtwo

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Smash is not canon to the games.

So you think megas should represent gen 6 more than than Greninja? I think they did enough of that with Lucario and Charizard. You know Greninja was well liked before he even came out, before people even knew protean existed. He's cool with his shurkans and tounge scarf and I don't really see a reason to not have him. Greninja is just a cool pokemon with a lot of thought put in, and unlike Charizard and Mewtwo, Greninja's fame came without much support, and Greninja's fanbase is going to be happy that he is in the game. Blaziken doesn't really deserve this spot much since Greninja is from gen 6 and Sakurai also did that with Brawl as well with Lucario.

Greninja:
+Unique Water/Dark tpye
+Bad*** Ninja
+Signature move water shurkan which no one else can learn
+Protean as hidden
+Popularity rose without much support and will now rise a lot due to confirmation
-No mega evolution

Blaziken:
+Mega Evo
+Event
+In anime often
-Common starter type
-Blaze kick can be learnt by many

This is really what I consider good and bad. Greninja just fits the slot better and is a good way to represent gen 6, not with Blaziken. We already have two of the most prominent megas and there will be 3 when Mewtwo is most likely revealed. Mewtwo and Charizard's megas are more popular thatn Blaziken's

Not only that Blaziken would have likely ended up as a clone to Captain Falcon, because Fire Punch (which is a move that Blaziken can learn via move tutors) and Blaze Kick can end up similar to both of Falcon's iconic moves, the Falcon Punch and Falcon Kick, plus they also have a very similar body physique to 1 another.

I'm glad they went with Greninja as the Gen VI rep, he totally deserves it, the only other Pokémon that would have been playable out of the X/Y Pokémon would have been Hawlucha (although with Greninja now in and Mewtwo/Jigglypuff possibly returning this badly hurts Gardevoir's chances to be playable (although like Blaziken she would also end up as a clone to Zelda/Mewtwo since she would share some attacks/moves from the 2), not that she had any shot of making the leap from Pokeball Pokémon to playable like Charizard did, although judging by Charizard's/Greninja's direct trailer she's likely cut from the game altogether.)

 

[ToothiestAura]

Consider Mewtwo.
I get your point though, maybe the sash could act as a foot? IDK, it seems a bit of a stretch TBH.

Mewtwo at least looked like he was standing. (It was dumb to see him and Charizard fall, but less I suppose then someone who floats). The sash could work, but it is a bit silly (and he would also have to hold items).

 

[UberPyro64]

Greninja is not only the most popular starter of gen 6, it's the most popular Pokemon in Gen 6 as Lucario was in Gen 4.

Not only that but in popularity it has quickly grown to be one of the most popular starters overall. There is a small group above the rest and he's part of that. That's 4 Pokemon to be exact. Blastoise, Blaziken, Charizard and now Greninja. These 4 have definitely become hugely popular over all the others. I've also heard unlike a lot of starters. Greninja is really great competitively.

All these reasons and more are why Greninja was chosen over the other starters.

 

[PAPCGyE]

Haha Yeah, Greninja looks more like a Naruto character than a pokemon... With those shurikens, substitutions and teletransportation ninjutsus

 

[Jesus castro]

Smash is not canon to the games.

So you think megas should represent gen 6 more than than Greninja? I think they did enough of that with Lucario and Charizard. You know Greninja
was well liked before he even came out, before people even knew protean existed. He's cool with his shurkans and tounge scarf and I don't really see a reason to not have him. Greninja is just a
cool pokemon with a lot of thought put in, and unlike Charizard and Mewtwo, Greninja's fame came without much support, and Greninja's fanbase is going to be happy that he is in the
game. Blaziken doesn't really deserve this spot much since Greninja is from gen 6 and Sakurai also did that with Brawl as well with Lucario.





Greninja:
+Unique Water/Dark tpye
+Bad*** Ninja


+Signature move water shurkan which no one else can learn

+Protean as hidden

+Popularity rose without much support and will now rise a lot due to confirmation
-No mega evolution




Blaziken:
+Mega Evo

+Event
+In anime often

-Common starter type

-Blaze kick can be learnt by many


This is really what I consider good and bad.
Greninja just fits the slot better and is a good way to represent gen 6, not with Blaziken. We
already have two of the most prominent megas and there will be 3 when Mewtwo is most likely revealed. Mewtwo and Charizard's megas are more popu
lar thatn Blaziken's

Also, nintendo LOVES blaziken am I right? It was a fan favorite since it came out in R/S and that is why they gave him the cool hidden ability.



And I know they dont have to be canon but have some relatively close characteristics. I mean, they are not going to give pikachu earthquake type attack just because they know smash and pokemon dont have to be the same. Or add a slow pokemon like aggron then make him super fast in smash. The games cant be totally disconnected.

I know I am not on topic but coming back to the bowser example in my previous post, not
only the games support him having flinching resistance but for balancing reasons also. Nobody can disagree that bowser needed a buff from brawl.

I believe a character shouldnt be canon to their games only if it is game breaking. If it is within smash's parameters, I dont see why they shouldnt add it. It promotes different fighting style characters that might appeal to different people. Me? I am still waiting for a tanky character. Right now only bowser and to a certain degree, little mac are appealing me.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

The games cant be totally disconnected.

Tell that to my slow-as-**** Ike in Brawl.

 

[Vashimus]

Ok first of all, Greninja has base 123 speed, not 122.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Sidetrack: Two of XY OU's best offensive Pokemon have sub-105 offensive stats. In Talonflame's case it's sub-100. That's insane.

 

[UberPyro64]

There are only 4 Pokemon starters with super popularity.

Charizard, Blastoise, Blaziken and now Greninja. These 4 are what you would call all-stars. Yes Greninja as new as it is has become a sort of all-star. It's easily the most popular Pokemon in Gen 6 and it will have staying power in future gens due to it's massive popularity plus with being Smash will only help it further. It will also probably receive a mega evolution next gen as well as could very well end up the most popular stater Pokemon ever next to only Charizard.

Now why didn't Blaziken or Blastoise ever become playable? I guess it has to do with a few things. First look at Lucario. He was the most popular Pokemon of Gen 4 much like Greninja is of Gen 6. Gen 1 has three Pokemon more popular than Blastoise. The other starter Charizard, the legendary Mewtwo and the icon Pikachu. These three along with Jigglypuff (who has become a Smash icon more so then it ever was a Pokemon icon) represent Gen 1 good enough. Gen 1 being the most iconic and biggest gen make it okay to have that many but anymore would simply be too much.

Blaziken as popular as it is, isn't the most popular Pokemon of Gen 3. That title belongs to Raquaza. Of course it isn't much of a competition still based on the size and shape of Raquaza, it just wouldn't lend itself well for being a playable character. And it did appear as a boos in the SSE in Brawl anyway. Blaziken's really had two problems outside of not being the most popular Gen 3 Pokemon. Those were Lucario and the Pokemon Trainer. Lucario was the most popular Pokemon of a more recent gen and Sakurai wanted to try a new idea with Pokemon Trainer who would use iconic Gen 1 Pokemon. Lucario's problem is easy but with the Pokemon Trainer, besides being a unique idea with 3 characters in 1, Sakurai probably at the time didn't think starters should be outside of a Trainer. Hence why the 3 Gen 1 starters were paired up. And being the most iconic starters, he didn't think newer ones were necessary to ever make playable. Hence Blaziken didn't get in.

He has obviously since changed his mind and made Charizard by itself so he's now open to the idea of starers being by themselves if they are popular enough. Greninja being the most popular Pokemon of Gen 6 made it easy for Sakurai to chose now that the Trainer idea was gone. Bad circumstances killed Blaziken's chances and with every new gen getting some sort of new Pokemon that is highly popular, it's unlikely they will ever look back now.

 

[NintenRob]

Yes, every smash game has a new pokemon to represent the newest pokemon game. There is no reason to and Greninja was the best choice by far so of coarse he deserved it.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Yes, I believe Greninja deserved it. He is a 6th generation Pokemon rep, is a water ninja which means that he has a diverse moveset to Sheik.

If this is about "replacing Mewtwo", remember that Brawl had six Pokemon characters: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Lucario, Squirtle, Ivysaur.

So far we have: Pikachu, Lucario, Charizard, Greninja.

Meaning, we have room for two more Pokemon characters and guess which two Pokemon are going to fill those roles?

 

[ryuu seika]

Definitely too much of a stretch then. I now understand why Greninja over Honedge/Aegislash.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Definitely too much of a stretch then. I now understand why Greninja over Honedge/Aegislash.

Glad your questions were answered. ^.^ Exactly what this thread is for.

 

[Sonicguy726]

Lucario 2.0. Except a completely different pokemon.

No that was zoroark, Lucario 3.0

 

[KenboCalrissian]

One other thing to consider is type representation. Chesnaught is Grass/Fighting, but we already have Lucario as a Fighting type (and I'm sure they don't want to look biased towards Fighting types in a fighter). Delphox is Fire/Psychic, and we already have a Fire type (Zard) and previously had a Psychic type (Mewtwo - here's hoping he's coming back!) In Greninja's case, we had Squirtle but never had a Dark type.

Personally, I must admit that when XY came out, the only reason I didn't pick Froakie was because my g/f already called it (I went with Chespin), and the only reason I didn't pick Charmander was because I did so in Gen 1 (so I picked Squirtle since I already had a grass starter). I love Chesnaught, but I kind of would have preferred Greninja after seeing what he could do.

 

[Daniee]

Greninja's popularity couldn't have had anything to do with its inclusion. Sakurai said back at E3 that they were done making additions to the roster, and that was months before Greninja was revealed to the public.

Sakurai definitely got an early look at the X & Y starters and just must've thought Greninja would be the most fun of the three.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Remember that Sakurai said that regarding pokemon characters he chooses whoever is in the spotlight right now; Greninja is a well liked pokemon, with a good design and used a lot in competitive battles, besides it represents the 6th generation. It was a great choice and provides diversity to the cast.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Greninja fits very well. Like Lucario, it has a humanoid form and it's a martial arts pokemon, two aspects that go very well in fighting games.

 

[ImaClubYou]

It's tongue is its scarf.

Instant Smash application.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I'm gald; I needed a character who could scratch my ninja itch, and Sheik wasn't cutting it ^_^

Great post, TRG; I thought the same thing, but you worded it far better than I could.
I'm just glad to have a new character in Smash to scratch my ninja itch, and Sheik just wasn't cutting it.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Greninja's popularity couldn't have had anything to do with its inclusion. Sakurai said back at E3 that they were done making additions to the roster, and that was months before Greninja was revealed to the public.

Sakurai definitely got an early look at the X & Y starters and just must've thought Greninja would be the most fun of the three.

That's actually something I never thought of. Pretty interesting now that it's brought up.

 

[xpnc]

no

good talk

 

[The Drilling Juggernaut]

Well, it's kind of a toss up. There aren't really any Pokemon that has pulled away this gen. There were a couple that came close, and Greninja was one of them. They need a gen 6 Pokemon so they probably had the top 10 online and just picked the one with the most potential to have mass appeal.


As someone who as accepted that none of his favorite Pokemon are going to be added I don't have a problem with Greninja. Would have picked Hawlucha if it was up to me, but Greninja is a fine choice.