No, lore says that Hypernova uses suction. Black holes do not use suction.
Lore says that Hypernova is a black hole, and that it uses suction, so it's a black hole that uses suction. Simple.
Kirby's stomach isn't a black hole; it relies on suction, and when we see inside his stomach, there's no signs of spaghettification.
Hypernova Kirby's insides are different than regular Kirby's.
Not anywhere near the level of an actual black hole. It's a glorified bottomless pit.
Hypernova isn't the same.
Black holes don't rely on suction.
See above.
The explosion has more energy, so it requires charging of said energy.
I don't see how this means that it has to be charged.
So in every playthrough that has ever been played of this game, Kirby always hits Marx in the wings? Even then, it would only be for one of the wings; both of them spread.
I'm referring to the blast that appears right when Marx launches off, which would be from Kirby's attack. It hits both his wings.
A cannon doesn't damage its cannonball, and yet it launches it up into the air.
Because cannonballs are made of metal, not because things that launch up don't damage.
Why can I not have two counterarguments for your two arguments?
It was all one argument.
You're saying that because Kirby can inhale the electrical energy in his games, then he can inhale Samus's much more powerful blast. It's extrapolation.
Just because it's powerful, doesn't mean Kirby can't suck it up. It's a vacuum, not a shield.
Electricity is attracted to skin; in close proximity, it'll jump right to the skin. The same principle applies here.
It might try to jump to it, but I seriously doubt it will go around Inhale, seeing as it covers Kirby's whole face.
Do you have a video of this?
See 1:40.
Show me the game examples.
See 11:25.
Yes, but more specifically, a counter to my argument that Kirby did not launch Marx Soul.
So neither of our points about Marx Soul have evidence.
If he's flying downwards, he's going towards the ground; but here, he's staying in the air.
The upward and downward motion would have contradicted each other, causing him to go nowhere.
And you have no proof that he told the truth.
He's writing in his journal. For himself. Why would he lie to himself?
Oh, I thought you were referring to the spinning attack. He's in the background during most of it, so he's safe from Kirby.
He's not in the background. As you can see a few seconds later, he flies onto the platform without flying forward.
Prove that they use their strongest attacks. "More powerful" =/= "most powerful".
I'm going to dismiss your argument now, because you don't understand what I'm saying.
Kirby's durability represented by his health bar, even if we're not actually using the health bar.
He has planetary durability. His health bar doesn't represent that.
Yes, but that's not my point; my point is that it takes few hits (depending on their power) to destroy him.
Six hits > a few.
Yes, but the rule is not in effect in these battles.
Um, what?
I figured you'd say that. Mega Mewtwo is about nine times faster than the Slowpoke, so we can deduce that Magic Room speeds up the user by about nine times their regular speed.
Trick Room, not Magic Room.
I would agree, but Trick Room doesn't speed up the user.
Nothing about the specific moves in there.
They're all included under "attacks" (another way to say "moves").
Do these effects include invincibility?
Nope.
By the way, you're still going against a rule that was already settled.
That's a different game, and a different attack.
The game and attack are irrelevant.
So we apply Magic's time limit here, then.
Agreed, along with all of Meta Knight's abilities.
That's only adding upwards momentum. It doesn't negate horizontal knockback. Unless you can provide an example of Kirby getting launched a far distance by an enemy attack, and then another example of that same attack hitting Kirby and Kirby puffing up to negate the knockback, I can't reach that conclusion.
That's too specific for there to be a video.
Then what are you trying to say?
That he can't have a brain, because the portal would stop it from working.
Prove that Kirby is different.
No creatures in real life are pink, eight inches tall, and round with stubby arms. None of them can be flattened, or puff up to fly, use Copy Abilities, or have stomachs for portals.
And the analogy is still intact; both are guns in the analogy, and both are attacks in the case of the bosses.
How does that go against my case?
Yes, it's forced by the sun emitting rays.
Which isn't impact.
A) Which would be surrounding him at this point.
B) He'd need to wait for the Copy Ability to take effect.
A) And extinguished by his water.
B) Which takes less than a second.
A) He's flinching, which is very similar (and very similar to what Kirby experiences).
B) Don't you have to charge it in that game?
A) So he flinches, but no hitstun.
B) Nope.
A)
Okay.
B) I could probably find a video of this, but I don't think I need to. Boosting while using the Spin Attack shouldn't be necessary when Sonic is already packing 45212697.67 pounds of force with just ramming into opponents.
A) That's with Silver, and it's not freezing time. No video proof that Sonic can freeze time here.
B) Fair enough.
I have fun while playing Smash Brothers, but it doesn't hamper my abilities.
Point?
I seem to remember the front half of the volcano that was mentioned way back when sliding down, or falling.
The lore mentioned a mountain, but not a volcano.
Whoops, my words got strange there.
Kirby is chopping, say, Bowser's right arm off, correct? While he's busy doing that, Bowser's left fist can punch him since Kirby is focused on the right arm.
Unless he's standing on the left fist (which he is).
It's also visually the same as the other attacks, which don't involve charging and thus don't move at Mach 5.
It's not visually the same as other attacks.
I'd imagine that tumbling out of the spaceship like he does at the beginning of the game would hurt a bit.
Kirby, not Olimar.
And this is relevant because...?
Popon couldn't be seen before the telescope, so it's different.
Mario is shooting Kirby with a projectile bigger than he is at point blank range. The fireball will reach Kirby in far less than a second, likely less than even half of one. Kirby's flight just seems far too slow to dodge the fireball itself, let alone the large shockwave it creates when it hits something.
Kirby's flight is plenty fast enough to dodge the fireball, and it's not like Mario could get that close in the first place.
Except he's still hit by the shockwave.
He can heal his damage easily.
Not ones that turn anything they touch into gold.
What does gold have to do with anything?
Kirby doesn't turn anything that tries to attack him into gold; he doesn't have any properties that would get in the way of Mario attacking him. The Gold Flower has projectiles that turn things into gold upon contact, so if Kirby tries to punch it, he'll get turned into gold.
Kirby wouldn't even try to punch it. If he wanted to destroy it, he'd use a projectile.
All he'd have to do is fly, and the fireball would go under him quickly.
Do you have video of this?
14:50.
Popstar has a lot of mass.
Meanwhile, the fireball hits him while he's shuffling through his forms.
Kirby jumps/flies over it, or just inhales it.
Because of a game mechanic. It's the same reason Sonic can eat food while curled into a ball (where his mouth isn't very accessible) in Smash Brothers.
It acts the same way as the power-ups that transform him.
Everyone seems to jump into the hat, which is understandable. Sadly, this means that I cannot find a video of anyone doing it on the ground. It does happen, though.
I actually have seen one (but I lost the link), and I recall him glowing or something when he put on the cap, indicating a transformation.
If you throw a hammer at someone's head, I can guarantee that it'll do some major damage.
I don't.
Quite a bit over 45212697.67 pounds of force (that's the pound force equivalent of 61,300,187 joules).
Kirby can dish out more force.
It'll take three hits, actually, and Mario's foot won't be stopped.
Kirby can get in more than three hits with attacks like Fire Breath. If you're putting your foot somewhere where it gets hurt, why wouldn't you move it away?
When does Kirby destroy a planet?
He's wiped out plenty of planetary+ foes in the past.
And neither are Mega Stones.
They're regarded the same way to Magic Room, like one item.
In the real world, muscles store energy separately. This is most likely an exaggerated example of that principle.
Ember and Blast Burn obviously don't have muscle usage.
Then where are you getting the "bonus" part from?
Good question.
Yes, that would add to the speed, which would determine the force.
Alright then.
The speed of light isn't an acceleration; it's, well, a speed. A measurement of acceleration would be, say, 1/5 of the speed of light per second.
As you can see, the explosion actually does accelerate. It starts to get slow, and then becomes much faster.
The flash of light was, but the bolt wasn't at Kirby's position.
Meaning he can react to things at light speed.
Except he's spinning on his Warp Star, busy inhaling.
Which would make Sonic have to wait before he went into attack. During the wait, Kirby can stop spinning and prepare for it, or just adjust so he inhales/attacks Sonic.
And Kirby inhaling gives Sonic the chance to freeze time or simply go behind Kirby.
How would he inhale Sonic if Sonic's getting sucked in?
It's not a statement from the game; it's a statement from Olimar.
Olimar's in the game, so it was a statement from the game.
So using the knife will destroy it?
No. Point?
Explain the platforms, coins, and brick blocks here then.
The Warp Pipes, the Piranha Plants, Mario, the Koopa Troopas, the castle, the trees, the flowers, the towers, the grass, and the mountains are all affected by gravity. Other items, like Fire Flowers or the Poltergust 5000, are affected by gravity as well.
Not to mention that the Star Bits are from Super Mario Galaxy, which introduces a whole new mess of nonsensical gravity.
What sort of nonsensical gravity?
Then they're compressed liquid.
Compressed liquid would deflect itself.
Your hand can't slap and punch at the same time because one involves it being a fist, whereas the other involves your hand being open. The wand doesn't have to be in two different states to create a force field and allow Rosalina to teleport.
I've got plenty of other examples. A pen drawing a picture of a cat, and drawing a picture of a dog. A battery powering a remote control, and powering a flashlight. A keyboard typing an essay, and typing a story. Unless you can prove Rosalina can do this, don't bring it up.
She doesn't have C.
I wonder how Kirby would manage to do that.
With Hypernova.
Except there are many Lumas firing many Star Bits and creating many galaxies containing many black holes. Strength in numbers.
There aren't really that many Lumas.
A) If he truly can go anywhere, then yes (given he actually goes there first).
B) He can only attack so many Lumas during that time, though. He won't get to them all in time (especially if Rosalina uses some force fields).
A) Lumas don't go where their black holes are.
B) Then he boards the Warp Star.
That's not nearly far enough to escape a black hole's AOE.
The black hole doesn't have that great an AoE in the first place. He just needs to teleport up.
How large are the craters?
- They can by turning into galaxies that contain them.
- When does he escape a black hole with his amount of suction power?
- There are too many Lumas for Kirby to stop in time.
- How would that happen?
- Unless Rosalina planned carefully and kept her distance. Even if it did, Rosalina & Luma still win, because the Lumas are still alive.
- Once he tries to attack, he's done for.
- Why would it get sucked in?
- Which doesn't help. There's no guarantee that the black holes will go somewhere useful.
- There is an enemy called Schwarz, and it creates black holes to attack Kirby. Kirby can escape them.
- That's easy with Crash, Mike, Paint, Cook, or Magic.
- Kirby throws her in a black hole.
- Kirby is holding Rosalina, she can't go anywhere. Only Rosalina and one Lumas have to be killed for Kirby to win.
- How can a Luma in the middle of transformation do a thing to him?
- Because it's near a black hole.
The Lumas can go anywhere on the battlefield.
Point?
Why exactly could he not move something?
He can, but he has to hit it.
After which he commences attacking.
Which Marth counters.
Moving.
They only occur every turn.
Frequent enough.
Because the Chaos Emeralds had lost their energy.
How?
He could use an invincibility power-up.
What power-up, and can it stop deity attacks?
He saw the earth, which was being split apart.
A) He didn't see it splitting apart in the video.
B) He didn't see anyone to fight.
Naga > Overminds.
They're stated to contain "ultimate power" (the Chaos Emeralds, that is). Their origins aren't known for sure, but since the Master Emerald was created by the gods (the creators of Sonic's world), then it seems that they created the Chaos Emeralds as well.
Naga (the source of Darksphere) has ultimate power too. The deities didn't create the Chaos Emeralds.
I said, "exactly". A bomb is a powerful force, but it does not corrupt (at least, not in this sense of the word).
A bomb can corrupt, actually.
Whoops! I meant powerful lasers.
Power Bombs aren't lasers. When a laser penetrates a mirror, it gets weaker.
The attacks can be negated by the crying status.
Level systems are irrelevant here. Prove why, in a level-system-free environment (although still with the force, attack power, buffs, etc they present), Ness would defeat Sonic, who can freeze time and speedblitz Ness before he could begin to blink.
I wasn't referring to levels as in RPG levels; I was referring to levels as in power levels, that can apply to every fictional character. Ness' power level is universal, while Sonic's isn't, so Ness wins. For extra support for the claim, I'm going to use Dryn's system, and your system, of determining who wins a battle, as well.
Strength: Ness (Ness' physical attacks can break through
diamond.)
Speed: Ness (
Ness is omnipresent to an extent.)
Durability: Ness (Giygas is a universe destroyer, but Ness can still survive his destruction.)
Reaction: Ness (Ness can react to, and even dodge,
beams.)
Equipment: Sonic (The Chaos Emeralds give him access to Super Sonic, a powerful form.)
Miscellaneous: Ness (His PSI can counter powerful attacks and moves.)
Winner: Ness
vs
Attacker: Sonic
's Attack: Spin Dash
Sonic curls into a ball and dashes at high speeds at Ness.
's Counter: Telekinesis
Ness keeps Sonic away by using his telekinesis.
's Attack: Homing Attack
Sonic curls into a ball, homes into Ness, and hits him.
's Counter: Shield
Ness creates a shield that protects him from the attack, and hits Sonic with half of the damage.
's Attack: Violet Void
Sonic uses a Wisp to create a black hole and suck up Ness.
's Counter: Teleport
Ness runs forward and teleports away from the black hole.
's Attack: Boost
Sonic boosts at Ness at high speeds to attack.
's Counter: Dodging
Ness is faster than Sonic, and can dodge the attack.
's Attack: Light Speed Attack
Sonic travels at light speed to hit Ness.
's Counter: Dodging
Ness is faster than Sonic, and can dodge the attack.
's Attack: Super Sonic
Sonic uses the Chaos Emeralds to become an enhanced version of himself.
's Counter: Telekinesis
Ness holds Sonic in place and waits out the transformation.
's Counter: Time Freezing
Super Sonic freezes time and attacks Ness.
's Counter: Dodging
Ness dodges the attack.
Attacker: Ness
's Attack: PSI Rockin'
Ness hits Sonic with a strong psychic pulse of energy.
's Counter: Super Sonic
Super Sonic is invincible, and can easily dodge the attack by flying, teleporting, or time freezing.
's Counter: Paralysis
Paralysis will stop Sonic from doing anything, and PSI Rockin' is too strong for Super Sonic.
's Attack: PSI Flash
Ness induces status effects on Sonic. A 35% chance of crying, a 10% chance of strangeness, a 15% chance of paralysis, and a 40% chance of instant defeat.
's Counter: N/A
Crying, strangeness, and paralysis will hinder Sonic greatly while instant defeat will hand Ness the win.
's Attack: Hypnosis
Ness puts Sonic to sleep using his mind.
's Counter: N/A
Sonic falls asleep and is vulnerable to Ness' attacks.
Summary
Ness' mind is too much for Sonic to handle. The winner is Ness.
I don't see them destroying cities.
There's not any real footage of that.
Prove that they're the same.
I already did.
A) The monitor is part of the computer.
B) We're discussing the power here.
A) Point?
B) Point?
Then Marth is dead, because the damage caused by Sonic kills him.
The attack is negatable.
Both are destroying attacks, and both do a lot of damage.
By using an attack during the time freezing. For instance, the boost.
Mewtwo can counter that by using Endure before time is frozen.
You can collect potions, which add PP/HP. The method of obtaining them is irrelevant.
Then Rings are compared to potions, but not HP/PP.
Do you have a source for this?
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+alive&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
It's turn-based, and attack speed is determined by the Speed stat. It doesn't vary with each attack.
Switching your item around is not an attack.
It's only logical that that's how he'd be able to hold an item.
Babies can hold items, but they don't have strong grips.
If they pack enough force to destroy the universe, then the application is irrelevant; it's still hitting (part of) the universe.
Attacks can be made weaker if necessary.
This is circular reasoning.
How?
Just because he's small, that doesn't make him 8 inches. There are plenty of creatures taller than that, but they're still small. Take
as examples. 8 inches is an insufficient fighting size, but we all know how powerful Kirby is. Him being 8 inches has already been contradicted multiple times in the games. If you scale other characters like final bosses from Kirby's size, you find that they are smaller than the average human. This doesn't make sense, because the final bosses are planetbusters.
The Super Sonic Boost is, and uses the Emeralds' energy.
Master or Chaos Emeralds' energy?
We also use weaknesses. Being able to be hit is a weakness. Advantages to the character are irrelevant. In the case of a contradiction, we go with the more common example.
What makes his weakness take priority over his ability? He's already surpassed that weakness. Advantages are things that every other character gets, so why can't Wario get his advantages? You're trying to nerf him from some of his games, which doesn't work unless you decide to nerf everyone else too. What does commonality have to do with this? If something happens, it happens. Weak armies are more common than strong armies in the example I said. Are we going to send out the weak armies because they're more common?
Sending out armies =/= choosing a reliable source.
I'm not talking about sources. I'm talking about outliers.
Prove that it would destroy the Magic Armor.
Mega Buster > mountain > Magic Armor.
They knocked down the moon by hitting it once. Bowser is multiple times smaller.
If he could actually get a hit in before Ganondorf decimates him. Remember, it takes multiple hits with even the Master Sword to defeat Ganondorf.
MK travels faster than light. He can get in plenty of hits before Ganondorf can blink.
Rosalina uses the wand and Lumas to create force fields, teleport, make black holes, etc, so he can do so here. Shulk never blinks anyone out of existence, so he wouldn't here.
Shulk wiped Zanza from existence once.
Which one? How much force does it pack?
Zanza's attack, and it packs the force of two universes.
Are they exactly the same?
Pretty much.
Prove that he can survive a vehicle moving at that velocity.
See above.
If it had universal power, it would OHKO any target (which it doesn't).
Because Zanza also has universal power/durability.
Not really. A single hit from Shulk would OHKO Ganondorf. Nothing Ganondorf would defeat Shulk.
Shulk would slice through that thing like butter.
It negates the force of physical attacks to 1.
It protects them from both physical and energy attacks.
Universal physical and energy attacks?
They can be worked around, however.
Explain.
They can destroy a universe. But if it's range you want, check out Monado Purge.
Air Slash.
This doesn't guarantee a win.
Um, yeah, it kind of does.
If one person can one-shot, and one person can barely do anything, it can't go either way.
He uses plenty of them on Zanza.
See above.
Sonic reaches Shulk in under .00 seconds. Shulk wouldn't even be able to watch his full vision, let alone dodge the attack or activate his sword.
He doesn't have to move a muscle. Sonic's strongest attacks are physical, and are always weakened by the Mechon Armor.
It's never blocked attacks from someone like Shulk.
