Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Well, that doesn't involve physics either way. How would you determine, say, whether or not Mario could survive a power bomb from Samus without using physics?
Huh. I didn't know any of the 4 characters you just listed have been in a canon appearance in a Legend of Zelda game to prove your assertions. Colour me surprised!
Metroid: Other M. Adam says power bombs vaporize humans and a single power bomb can kill a Queen Metroid. Not to mention, Mario can get hurt by weaker bombs.
They haven't made a canon appearance. What's your point? Link has killed Ganondorf all by himself in LoZ using silver arrows. No one cares about what the person himself can do. Unless you're going to strip everyone of their abilities.
Mario is much more durable than your average human. To determine that the bombs are weaker, you'd need to use at least a small amount of physics (large explosions are often more powerful than small ones).
Point is, Ganondorf cannot be killed indefinitely whatsoever, and the only means of sealing him away are weapons imbued with the power of the three goddesses. This includes light arrows, silver arrows, the silver sword, and master sword, probably among others. And even when he does "die", he'll either be reborn or resurrected nonetheless, because he's the embodiment of an unstoppable curse that is bound to the Triforce's existence.
Any character that has the power of a god can kill ganondorf. That's the ruling we made about this a long time ago. Also Ganondorf can die, when he comes back it's just a new Ganondorf. The same thing works for Zelda and Link, there are many of them, but the're all differnt being with their own powers and skills.
Well, if everyone agrees on that notion, I have no problem resigning that argument.
Mario shows the same frailty as any other human. Samus deals with space pirates as well and they can survive extreme temperatures and even step into magma without dying. Mario can't. If space pirates will die from a power bomb, then Mario will die from one, too.
Can you prove that? Or do you expect me to accept your no-limits fallacy? Care to define what "the power of the three goddesses" is?
The adult era says otherwise. After The Wind Waker, Ganondorf hasn't appeared. Can you please demonstrate any time Ganondorf has ever reappeared without the aid of someone else, such as Twinrova, Zant, or anyone? Also, that curse was not bound to the Triforce. It was bound to the descendents of both Link and Zelda.
So? They're arrows of light from Dyntos, who is a god.
So? The light beam has the traits of the light arrows in that it's sacred and has life.
You're ignoring the fact that the weapons used against these gods are crafted by a god. Usually, the only way a god can be defeated is by another god. Also, Hades is the god of the underworld. Let me inform you. Originally, Medusa wasn't even on teams with the underworld. She was the co-ruler of Angel Land, but because of her hatred towards humans, caused her to be cast away by Palutena. That's when Medusa joined the forces of evil. Considering Hades brought back Medusa from the dead, he has just as much power taking her soul away.
Considering the light beam shows more destruction than the light arrows would ever dream of, I suspect it would, especially when it has the two necessary traits of the master sword: holiness and life.
You were trying to bifurcate Link from his equipment. Either way, Link has killed Ganondorf in the past before. Since he's composite, he has the knowledge to defeat Ganondorf as he did before without any assistance from the sages.
He can fall from extreme heights, get crushed by Thwomps, survive multiple explosions, and get burned multiple times over, and still live.
Mario can survive lava as well. Granted, he can't stay inside of it for prolonged periods of time, but it's not an instant kill or anything (in the 3D games, anyway).
Tools or magic which comes from the three goddesses. The proof lies within the plot of Wind Waker, where Link initially faces Ganondorf with an unpowered Master Sword, and is unable to hurt him at all. He only managed to escape because Ganondorf was distracted by a dragon.
Twilight Princess did not feature a resurrection actually. His "execution" was during the start of the Child Era, but he escaped to the Twilight Realm after being granted the Triforce of Power and only communicated with Zant (masquerading as a god) to manipulate him.
No, it's alien technology made for the sole purpose of destroying the Ing. The Ing are not gods, they're just an advanced alien race.
Not true. Unlike Ganondorf, Link is almost always a reincarnation, and a new person each time. The only exceptions are direct sequels such as Majora's Mask, Phantom Hourglass, and Adventure of Link. And yes, I do find the equipment relevant, as it has been shown in Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time that he won't be able to defeat Ganondorf without the assistance of the Master Sword. And the sword has no direct connection to how well trained his abilities are within sword fighting.
He gets injured every time. He cannot survive falling in magma or lava. That only takes one time. Nuclear explosions produce more heat than magma and lava. By the way, it's interesting that when Goron Link tries to block the damage from the powder keg, he gets injured, whereas normal bombs won't harm him. This isn't relevant here, but I thought it'd be interesting to point out.
He still gets burned, however.
That's fine. You'll see that the majority of us here accept that other characters will likely not be able to harm Ganondorf because of his divine protection.
I'm not denying Ganondorf's ability to survive conventional attacks. I do deny that Ganondorf will be able to withstand Samus' light beam, Pit's sacred arrows and light arrows, and I deny that Ganondorf will be able to withstand Shulk's Monado, since it is a divine blade.
Ganondorf already had the Triforce of Power before he was banished to the Twilight Realm. He used Zant as his pawn and likely escaped this way.
He escaped because Link drew the master sword.
I'm not familiar with ALttP. I only played up to a certain dungeon.
Twinrova resurrected Ganondorf.
Even with that in mind, a Gerudo male is born every century, so really wouldn't matter by this point, since this match isn't going to last a century and we're not going to throw in another Gerudo male into this match.
It's alien technology that is made up of light energy, and this light energy is likely from the Light of Aether, which is worshiped by the Luminoth and possesses bio-energy. It also contains other types of energy in there as well, making it a more powerful energy source. By the way, what's interesting is that it's so powerful that even Samus' scan visor cannot determine it.
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.
As proven by physics.
Quite interesting.
And without physics, there's nothing to say that the power bomb's heat is greater than that of magma.
As proved by a larger blast. The power bomb looks more devastating than the bombs Mario has been hit by.
And physics say that a larger blast generally equals a larger force.
And physics prove that that is the case.
It'd be more like heuristics than physics. If simply observing something is physics, then I'd agree. If I observed light and sound, both would appear instantaneous to me. Which one is faster? I wouldn't know just by observing.
We could say "that explosion looks bigger, so it's probably more powerful", but we need physics to get hard proof. I could counter the "bigger = more powerful" argument with the possibility of the explosions being made of different materials. If we exclude physics, we lose a lot of proof and the results become skewed. I'm working with physics.
That's fine, but if you say physics doesn't apply with video game physics, then you have nothing to work with.
A lot of things rely on assumptions here because we're replacing video game physics with our own.
I'm saying that they do (unless contradicted, of course).
It seems like some video game universes do agree with the laws of physics, but some don't. Metriod seems to be pretty accurate so laws of physics could be used in an arguement there. Compare this to Pokemon, where physics are screwed with on a regular basis.
I know what you're saying, but I still disagree. You can't cherry pick.
I'm not cherry picking; it's more a matter of priority. Games come first, and then we can use real life physics if there's nothing on the subject in the games.
So that means if something like a cannon ball or laser doesn't give us any details, we can use real life physics. Sounds good.
And it does; we see the speed they move at, giving us the detail of speed.
Oh, please. Don't give me that. We see what these objects are and we know what speed they travel. Otherwise I'll start calculating gravity for everyone here and come up with inflated numbers. Or the opposite might happen.
Yes, we know that they're projectiles and we know that they travel at the speeds they're shown at.
Gravity is clearly a selective law of physics in, say, Mario. Brick Blocks, ? Blocks, platforms, etc float in midair all the time (the latter also occurs in many other series).
The contradiction here is that cannon balls fly faster than what we see. Even when they're fired downward, they don't increase their speed from the gravitational force.
Maybe, but the same can't be said for every other series. For example, without the gravity suit, I have proved that in Metroid Fusion, Samus can withstand 9,999.99 times Earth's gravity. By this point, no one is going to be able to harm Samus even outside of her armor.
As I said, gravity is a selective law of physics in the Marioverse. If they were going faster than they seem, then why aren't they accelerating at all when going downwards? If gravity did apply, we'd see some sort of acceleration.
I take that as a typo personally; it's rather obvious to be honest.
DjinnandTonic
Ragnelle and Falchion are both similarly blessed.
That's completely untrue, otherwise Mario's falling speed would fluctuate every time he dropped. Or he'd just fly away by jumping.
Because the game is programmed that way. You don't seem to understand gravitational force. As long as there is mass, there is gravity. Gravitational force is Fg = mg. So if Mario's mass is 58.967 kg. and gravity is 9.81 m/s^2, then the force he's experiencing is 578.46627 N. To convert newtons into weight, you can multiply this by 0.22481 pounds-force, or 130 lb. And yes, 130 lb. is a reasonable weight for Mario because he is 5'1". So he will have a wider waistline than someone like me who is a little over 130 lb. and standing at 5'11". Mario falls faster than those cannonballs, which means he must have more mass. Not only would he be heavier than those cannonballs, his velocity would be greater than the muzzle velocity of those cannons.
It's not a typo, although with slight changes are in effect as of now because I thought Samus' height was 1.98 m. for some reason and because I'm not working with 411.6 m/s, but 343 m/s instead for the speed of the missiles. Here's my math. In Metroid: Zero Mission, Samus stands at 81 px. The bottom part of her arm cannon is 53 px. This would mean the distance between the bottom part of her missile and the ground is 1.2432098765432099 m. The official Metroid Prime Web site says the range of missiles is 10 m., although this is clearly not the case.
Floating platforms aren't unusual in the Metroid series. They're usually held up by propulsion. Of course, this is probably more of a game design and not a floating platform since Metroid: Other M has retconned the appearance of Tourian.By the way, floating platforms are present in the Metroid series as well:
Okay.And Sonic:
Okay. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.And Kirby:
And... well, you get the idea.
By "selective", I mean only applying to certain objects.
That's not a canon, in-universe answer.
In that case, is he infinitely heavier than a Brick Block because those don't fall at all?
To change the planets' mass to an amount similar to that of earth, you literally only need to change "trillion" to "billion". That's two letters, in rather similar units of measurement that could be confused (the same thing, except one is two and one is three). It sure seems like a typo to me, especially when Samus, with her mass (which has been officially stated, no?), not indicating anywhere near that sort of gravity with her falling speed etc. It's also the common consensus within the Metroid community (whom I would assume to be knowledgeable on the subject). Here's a forum post on the subject that I found if you're curious.
Fair enough.
I believe you said that the same thing couldn't be said for all other series, so I thought I'd point out which series do have floating platforms (for future reference and all).
Or an alternative is floating.
Of course it's not. It's a game program answer because that's how it's programmed.
Those are stationary because the game is programmed that way. Or magic.
You're under the impression that I'm talking about planet Zebes, which I am not. I'm talking about Nightmare. "Apparently, it was a bio-mechanical organism designed for military applications . . . It possesses uncommon power and can manipulate gravity." - Adam Malkovich, former commanding officer of the 07th Platoon.
I'm not sure where the Sonic universe takes place, but I wouldn't put much thought into the Kirby universe.
Which would mean that gravity doesn't affect the object (or that its effect is inexplicably resisted).
The way a game is programmed isn't relevant here unless it's a glitch or something along those lines.
Would the same thing not apply to the cannonballs, then?
I see. So, you were basing your calculations on the speed of a missile?
The Sonic universe is supposed to take place on "Mobius", but it has many similarities with earth (it has a president, humans, etc). Kirby takes place on an alien planet in a post-apocalyptic future, so I guess anything goes.
If it has mass, it's affected by gravity. Everything is affected by gravity. It's one of the four fundamental forces. Without it, we'd be dead. So, considering that everything is affected by gravity, these objects would need to be floating by some means. Or it's just a game design as you'll see below.
That's an assertion. You know the game is programmed a certain way. You know the game is designed a certain way. For example, look at Ceres Station. Look at the platforms on the far left and the stairs leading up/downstairs. I don't know about you, but that's pretty bad design, especially if I was a scientist working there and needed to go upstairs to get to the docking bay.
It would, which is what I've been saying. I've also been saying that if we use our physics, then we should ignore the speed of the cannonballs in the game and use the actual speed of a cannonball.
Yes. It's reliable because you can determine the acceleration of the x- and y-axes. That's all you need to know. Then you can do the rest. And before you doubt this, yes, I have spoken with people who actually know more about physics than I do. If you're interested, one of the people from a site called Gaia goes by the name "Vannak". He did this kind of calculation for me in the past before I understood how he did it. My results were consistent with his using the same numbers.