Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[ShadowLBlue]

@ ShadowLBlue

Psychic stuff and Super Sonic:
Trick is negated by Protect, so Super Sonic would likely block it as well.

Oh, well nvm.

Marty's darksphere:
If I'm not mistaken, it protects the user by means of possessing their mind (presumably to mess with muscle movement and such), which some characters would be immune to.

Why would other characters be immune to the user being protected by it messing with their mind?
EDIT: I saw your lower post and you misinterpreted it. Read it again:
"By itself, it possesses the power to possess an attacker's mind to protect the holder from all harm. However, if the user is attacked using its opposite, the Lightsphere, they are vulnerable. It will eventually corrupt even the noblest of men in both mind and body, noticeably quicker when the holder is experiencing negative emotions, which the sphere amplifies, making it beyond dangerous for humans to use."
The attacker and the holder are one in the same. It makes more sense that if it corrupts the mind of the holder, that the attacker and the holder are the same person because the it constantly posessing your mind corrupts you.

Beast Ganon:
So are you saying that he should have access to both the OoT final boss form and TP's Beast Ganon, or...?

Yes, because they are different enough transformations.

Obviously that's what happened. I don't know of any character on the roster who would actually be able to damage the gunship to that extent, unless you want to start demonstrating striking strength from each character.

Like I said, I don't think it's a problem for most of her fights, but it is a possibility against some characters. Of course, some of the characters who might have the strength to hurt the gunship (ex: Bowser) wouldn't actually be able to beat her regardless. Off the top of my head, and it's just a guess, some characters who can possibly beat her and could probably bang her ship up are Sonic, Mario (as Metal Mario) and Beast Ganon.

Dragon Ball Z is a manga/anime, not a video game. The purpose of HP for these characters who cannot die unless by a specific way is meaningless.

You didn't specify it had to be a video game. But I don't think it changes the strength of the analogy. It's not meaningless either, they are injured, it just isn't long lasting because they have a form of minor/major regeneration unless damaged fatally a certain way.

Ganondorf has never been one for quickness. Regardless, when the light beam is charged, it fires five blasts capable of homing in on the target. It sets them on fire. I've yet to see Ganondorf survive 5,000 K, but yeah. I've been saying a light beam and darkburst or sonic boom should finish him off.

He can move fast in WW but more importantly has the ability to briefly turn intangible while moving. Nonetheless I think Light Beam + Darkburst works as well.

It's not relevant in that Link and Ganondorf are humans, which I presented three possibilities. I don't care about the Skyrim example because as I said before, I have no counter-argument to what you presented. So you only addressed the Skyrim example, but not the fact that Link and Ganondorf are regarded as humans.

Well Ganon is clearly a human powered by darkness and the Triforce of Power, thus has super natural durability. That's not questionable.
Link too is likely granted supernatural protection from the Triforce of Courage.
But what does them being human have to do with anything?

It's fine if he has access to both, but I'm still working with his human form and his common beasts forms, not the only one from TP.

That's fine, I'm just specifying they wouldn't be combined because they're different.

But the magic boomerang is different from other boomerangs. They never stacked. Samus' suits can stack, so different varia suits would be able to stack. I've only been using one varia suit, one gravity suit, and one Phazon suit, though. Not multiple suits.

They never stack because they're not in the same game. Magic Boomerang stacks on the regular boomerang though.
And I'm aware they can stack, but my point is you haven't specified which incarnation of the Varia Suit you're using and with this rule you don't have to even if they didn't stack.

That's what I was saying. Telekinesis wouldn't work, but confusion would (provided the 10% chance actually works).

oh ok.

I don't see why Meta Knight would only be able to do that thing. Also, the reason he's temporary could be explained by the fact that he was bound to another dimension, or that he just left because his job was done.

I'm not saying he'd necessarily only slash, just that he's not going to act as a helper. And was it stated that he actually summons THE MK rather than making a temporary clone of him through Magic? Considering it's presented as a Magic trick, I think all the evidence points to him being temporary.

In an actual fight, DK would win. But in a boxing match, which measures strength, Mac turned out superior, so his strength would likely be on that level.

Boxing doesn't purely measure strength though. It's also about prediction and defense.
Also beating something at someone your an expert in isn't that impressive. DK's never boxed in his life. It's like Mario beating Tails in a plumbing contest. Sure it's nice you beat a genius, but you beat him doing something you've done all your life.

Protect/Super Sonic don't block the same things. Sound can still reach Super Sonic, yet not a Pokemon using Protect (demonstrated because it blocks Sonic Boom). Mental attacks have already been determined to bypass Super Sonic's invincibility.

Well you can give commands to a Pokemon using protect so I'm not sure I buy that comparison.
But Super Sonic and Protect don't necessarily block the same things.

Seems like everyone underestimates nowadays. Real shame.
The largest enemy crash can defeat in Kirby Triple Deluxe seems to be Mr. Frosty, Supernova takes him in one hit. More impressive though are metallic enemies such as Metaluns who die in one hit to the normal Crash. Kirby bosses do, believe it or not, have some otherworldly durability (when was the last time you saw a metal covered knight survive prolonged exposure to fire or lightning?)
Metaluns give Kirby the metal ability which can walk unharmed on boiling magma. Metal Kirby and the Metaluns seems to be made of the same material so we can find the melting temperature of the metal and compare it to other metals to find a match.
Magma ranges from 700-1300 C, though there are some outliers here and there. Given that this magma is bright orange and yellow, it would be on the high end of heat so let's just roll with 1300 C.
Whatever metal Kirby is made out of, it doesn't melt at 1300 degrees C leaving us with an incredibly broad selection of metals. We can limit this again by color, which throws some brighter metals (Titanium namely) out the window, and it doesn't seem to be magnetic (and there goes iron).
However there are still several metals to choose from, and I don't have a great way of narrowing it down, so I'll look at how Metal enemies form. Given their angular design, taken in with all the other findings, I feel that these metals most closely resemble Iridium
Being the second densest element in existence, it explains Metal Kirby's incredible weight. It's hardness also explains Metal Kirby's resistance to most enemies. Now to revise Crash's power in based on this new information (because 564 kJ·mol^-1 is a lot more than 40.65 kJ•mol^-1).
Before I get too far into this I want to clear up two mistakes I made
For one, 2,260 J/g is actually 2,260 kJ kg making my first calculation radically different than it actually is.
Two, the standard unit for heat of vaporization is kJ mol, which I learned the hard way
Well, a sphere Kirby's size made of iridium would weigh 99.11 kilograms or 99,110 grams.
Now to make our calculation correct I need to convert kJ per mole to kJ per kg. This'll get a little complicated.
There are 5.20245347706 moles in one gram of iridium, and it takes 564 kJ to vaporize one mole of iridium. By multiplying 564 kJ by 5.20245347706 gives us 2934.18376 kJ per kg.
99.11 kg • 2,934.18376 kJ per kg results in 290,806,952 J to vaporize a Kirby sized object made of Iridium. Keep in mind that Metaluns are larger than Kirby. That's about 291 megajoules or 291 sticks of dynamite! No one is just going to shrug that off, heck most of the cast would be reduced to a pile of ashes!
Again, keep in mind that metaluns are larger than this and that this is the basic level of crash.

Tell, me do you think Iridium could be crushed by an 4 foot mouse constantly hitting on it? Because the same metal you speculate is Iridium takes damage normally from the squeaks, and anything stronger than a normal enemy. It gives special protection against environmental hazards and pushovers. That's it. That's the simpler conclusion rather than basing it off of a real metal just because it shares similar properties.
Another flaw with this: if metaluns are made of the same metal as metal Kirby, why can metalun's be harmed by Fire Kirby, who by all accounts does NOT breathe magma?
LIke Bagan said, trying to apply real world physics to Kirby is a wasted effort.

Putting the Monado in his inventory would rob him of his Monado Arts during that period of time and it wouldn’t be practical against people like Palutena and Ganondorf. He would still get his visions though.

K.

I’d hate to be up against Robin and Lucina when they start their long-range Mire bombardment from Pegasus back.

Agreed.

We should probably get second opinions on that.
The only known ways to pierce Mechon armor with physical attacks are:
Use Monado Enchant to spread special ether particles onto weapons that enable them to bite through their armor.
Topple them to presumably hit at weak points on their frames or use superior leverage to inflict damage Ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YE...list=PL_sYhAj0WXRM2_xfO1O6P040gwIwlhqcP#t=211 at 3:31-3:44 (@Dryn can you give me your input on how those soldiers destroyed that Mechon?).
Use anti-Mechon weaponry forged from Mechon armor (like cuts like).

It was just a theory.

Wouldn’t the Lightsphere being nearby inside the Shield of Seals negate the Darksphere’s effect? The completed Shield of Seals only seems to keep the Starsphere’s effect and the other four spheres (including the Darksphere) no longer give their bonuses.

Marth wouldn't have to put it inside the Shield of Seals.

Do Pokemon other than ones raised by Pokemon Trainer and Mewtwo get TM or HM moves?

Yes

How are we going to handle Greninja’s Protean ability http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Protean_(Ability)?

It's type changes every move, what's the issue?

@ Munomario777 ,

Unless they are shown/stated to be otherwise vulnerable, I think all invincibility's should have the same protections.

 

[Munomario777]

Why would other characters be immune to the user being protected by it messing with their mind?
EDIT: I saw your lower post and you misinterpreted it. Read it again:
"By itself, it possesses the power to possess an attacker's mind to protect the holder from all harm. However, if the user is attacked using its opposite, the Lightsphere, they are vulnerable. It will eventually corrupt even the noblest of men in both mind and body, noticeably quicker when the holder is experiencing negative emotions, which the sphere amplifies, making it beyond dangerous for humans to use."
The attacker and the holder are one in the same. It makes more sense that if it corrupts the mind of the holder, that the attacker and the holder are the same person because the it constantly posessing your mind corrupts you.

I don't see what you're saying here. The bolded part is referring to the user. Since the darksphere relies on corrupting the mind for protecting the user, then characters who are resistant to mind corruption (such as Sonic, as shown in Unleashed) wouldn't be affected.

Yes, because they are different enough transformations.

Okay. I agree.

Like I said, I don't think it's a problem for most of her fights, but it is a possibility against some characters. Of course, some of the characters who might have the strength to hurt the gunship (ex: Bowser) wouldn't actually be able to beat her regardless. Off the top of my head, and it's just a guess, some characters who can possibly beat her and could probably bang her ship up are Sonic, Mario (as Metal Mario) and Beast Ganon.

Yeah. DK could probably disable her ship with a few well-placed punches, but Samus would have no trouble defeating him. I'm not sure about Mario defeating Samus (perhaps going Mega Mario while the gunship is taking off and crushing it with Samus inside?).

@ Munomario777 ,

Unless they are shown/stated to be otherwise vulnerable, I think all invincibility's should have the same protections.

Okay, sounds good. If I'm not mistaken, that's three for the proposal (including myself).

 

[Nerdicon]

It looks dark to me, putting it at least at 1,100 K (826.85°C), not 1,300°C.

A very small portion of the surface is white hot, most of it is yellow, and the rest is orange.

Metaluns look lustrous to me. Iron is a lustrous metal. See the iron cube? That's pretty smooth and shiny. I would rule out titanium on the basis that it's light and Metal Kirby is not. As Munomario777 said, not all iron is magnetic. I'm not sure where most metaluns are found, but from the Metalun boss I saw in Kirby: Squeak Squad, it was lingering around in a region of high temperature and at the beginning of the video I saw, Kirby was falling deep.

Spoiler: Picture

^Naturally occurring Iridium (to my knowledge) very angular, like the metal enemies and Kirby. Iron will naturally appear in shapes like this as iron pyrite which melts a little before 1300 C (1188 C to be exact). Looking at the big Metalun, it doesn't really seem to be a match...It looks more like other metals given it's bluish color (especially in the artwork). Metal Kirby's artwork looks much more like iridium hence why I made the connection. Now, what metal has a bluish color and is very similar to iridium? Well, Osmium fits that description almost perfectly! I do say almost as one thing doesn't quite check off: hardness.
Osmium is actually a tougher material than iridium, and their alloy is very dull (matching metal Kirby's sprite but not the artwork and lore > gameplay).

So I can safely say that Metal Kirby and the Metalun are made of different materials.


[

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Time for a bit of calculation work. So first off, let's take the first scene we see Wheel Kirby zooming by. Now let's calculate how large that is. Using Kirby as a reference point, we get this:
View attachment 48442
We get about ten Kirbys in length. Since Kirby is eight inches tall, this is eighty inches. He moves eighty inches in about a second, so we get, of course, eighty inches per second. Converting this to miles per hour, we get about 4.5 mph, or 5 mph if we're rounding up. The fastest recorded footspeed is Usain Bolt's 27.28 miles per hour. Most of the combatants should be able to catch Wheel Kirby just fine.

Yeah, that was definitely less than a second it took for Kirby to travel at that speed. He traveled at about 1/4 of a second, so that would mean 320 inches per second. This translates to 18 MPH. The average human speed isn't even 10 miles per hour. Even some of the fastest runners run at about 16 MPH, which is still less than 18 MPH.

Then how did he get there in the first place?

Magic Kirby summoned him. The reason for his temporary time could be explained by the fact that he was in the mirror portal, which wouldn't let him stay out before he had to return.

Haha, that's a good one.

All of those are grounded attacks, so they're easily avoidable by Kirby taking flight through puffing, Warp Star, or Jet.

Yeah... no.

Kirby could simply use Stone for all of his attacks.

The Clown Car is about two Marios tall. Mario is about five feet tall, so the Clown Car is about ten feet tall. It also seems to be the same width, and we can see from some images that it has a similar depth. So it's around 10x10x10 feet.

They seem to be rather similar in size.

Then does Bowser weigh 1.5 tons?

And they're also extremely slow, even slower than Kirby himself.

That's an exaggeration you're making there, they aren't really that slow. Kirby would be faster as well if he laid on the ground and rolled instead of walking.

Unless it gets defeated.

Which won't happen, because Kirby blocks the attacks.

How exactly would that work?

Kirby stands in front of the Helper, while the Helper uses projectiles to attack the opponent.

Because the sword's blade is still rather thin.

That didn't stop it from cutting through the much thicker volcano.

During which Bowser would simply run away.

Jet Kirby. Can Bowser run at Mach 5 speeds?

Ninjas are excellent at confusing people, and this is no exception. We can't take a bystander's word as canon unless that bystander has some sort of actual authority.

If you really want to go there, this ninja was Benikage, who went to a ninja school and witnessed the techniques.

I'd imagine planting your feet in the ground would be essential for inhaling air effectively at those rates. Without a stable foundation, Kirby might propel himself forward like a reverse jet engine!

Except Kirby can inhale in the air, so...

If we can see anything, it does not behave like an actual black hole.

Again, something the creators did so you could actually play the game.

A) The government has actual authority over its country. That website has no authority here.
B) Ad populum is not agreeing with something. Ad populum is saying that your argument is right because more people agree with it.

A) Though pretty much everyone on the internet agrees with that guideline, so not just the one website.
B) I wasn't really bringing up that more people agreed with it, I was bringing up that it was common knowledge.

Or their skill, or their wits, or their speed.

Those are all parts of power levels.

How much damage do these attacks actually deal to Kirby?

They do some pretty decent damage. I wouldn't imagine they'd do that much anyways, taking into play Kirby's durability (he took a planetary explosion in the ending of KTD.

If the Ultra Sword can freeze time, then characters get to pause the game, and Link drinking Chateau Romani freezes time as well.

Not agreeing that it can.

Then Sonic could just unfreeze time.

Good.

We don't have footage of Sonic doing it (he did it off screen), but here's a clip of the same technique being performed by Shadow.

Kirby teleporting (or actually starting the teleport and becoming intangible) is pretty much the same speed.

Because they're not power; they're speed, smarts, etc.

They may not be power, but they can often be integrated into the actual power level of the character.

If we're talking about strength, DK could kill Mac with one punch to the gut (or rather, through it). But the rules of boxing say that you can't kill your opponent, so DK is held back. It's like how Sonic has to ride in a car in Sonic and SEGA All-Stars Racing.

I think he'd be able to throw a punch weak enough so that it doesn't kill Mac, but strong enough so that it KO's in one punch.

Are you saying that Protect negates all sound? Then how does Perish Song get through?

The actual perishing done by the song could get through. But with Hyper Voice/Sonic Boom, the only thing done there is sound, so Protect can block it.

On what grounds?

Just the fact that it takes into account the character's feats and uses them for rankings.

DK's punch deals less damage than Mac's punch.

Are you not just proving my point?

That's exactly how. Therefore, defeating someone stronger than you doesn't make you equal or greater than that someone.

Lex actually defeated (or would've defeated) a weaker Superman, meaning he would be more powerful than Superman at his current level, as opposed to Superman with maximum stats.

That's super strength, but it says nothing about that being on a moon level scale, which if we really want to talk about that, the moon in DKCR doesn't behave like the actual Moon and isn't of equal size. Furthermore, Donkey Kong was falling, meaning his acceleration played a part, not just brute strength.

It may not be moon level, but it's still super strength, and Little Mac should still be around it.

The punch was pretty much independent of the actual fall.

How reliable? Because they got the information about Samus wrong. I bet they got Pit's wrong, too. And Ness being at a universal level? Nah. Gigyas hates prayers and Ness had help.

How'd they get Samus' information wrong?

You're still working on an anachronism. Now, you might say, "Look, that's DK's strength in those two gifs." Yes they are, but none are moon level and the first one has nothing to do with striking strength. It has to do with DK's throwing ability.

See above.

I'm not saying he'd necessarily only slash, just that he's not going to act as a helper. And was it stated that he actually summons THE MK rather than making a temporary clone of him through Magic? Considering it's presented as a Magic trick, I think all the evidence points to him being temporary.

Even if he was temporary, there would still be enough time for Kirby to grab on and commit a double attack at light speed. In fact, since Magic isn't a limited use ability anymore, it would have a Copy Essence Deluxe, and Kirby could use the Meta Knight summon over and over.

Boxing doesn't purely measure strength though. It's also about prediction and defense.
Also beating something at someone your an expert in isn't that impressive. DK's never boxed in his life. It's like Mario beating Tails in a plumbing contest. Sure it's nice you beat a genius, but you beat him doing something you've done all your life.

Well, we can see that Donkey Kong's blows do less damage than Little Mac's blows, thus proving that Mac is stronger.
Boxing is pretty much punching (and prediction, something which DK has shown), something Donkey Kong is used to, so I don't think he'd have much trouble.

 

[Munomario777]

Yeah, that was definitely less than a second it took for Kirby to travel at that speed. He traveled at about 1/4 of a second, so that would mean 320 inches per second. This translates to 18 MPH. The average human speed isn't even 10 miles per hour. Even some of the fastest runners run at about 16 MPH, which is still less than 18 MPH.

It seems more like half a second to me. The fastest recorded human speed is 27.28 MPH, not 16.

Magic Kirby summoned him. The reason for his temporary time could be explained by the fact that he was in the mirror portal, which wouldn't let him stay out before he had to return.

Then how does he escape in the first place?

All of those are grounded attacks, so they're easily avoidable by Kirby taking flight through puffing, Warp Star, or Jet.

Except Super Sonic can fly.

Kirby could simply use Stone for all of his attacks.

What is the most powerful attack that Stone has been shown to resist?

Then does Bowser weigh 1.5 tons?

Well, let's see. There's no official figure given in the games, so we'll have to do a bit of research. In Mario Kart 8, there are multiple different weight groups. Bowser and Donkey Kong are both "heavyweights", although Bowser is heavier than DK. In Donkey Kong 64, DK's weight is stated to be 800 pounds. So it appears that Bowser weighs a little over 800 pounds. Given that the Clown Car seems to be a bit larger than the average car, it seems likely that they weigh a substantial amount combined (not to mention all the Mechakoopas in there).

That's an exaggeration you're making there, they aren't really that slow. Kirby would be faster as well if he laid on the ground and rolled instead of walking.

Do you have video of him going faster, then?

Which won't happen, because Kirby blocks the attacks.

Kirby stands in front of the Helper, while the Helper uses projectiles to attack the opponent.

Until the attacker, you know, goes around Kirby.

That didn't stop it from cutting through the much thicker volcano.

Slicing something in two =/= burrowing a wide enough hole to travel through.

Jet Kirby. Can Bowser run at Mach 5 speeds?

Jet has some charge time. Bowser could use this opportunity to curl into his tough shell (or alternatively, just grow giant and shrug off the attack).

If you really want to go there, this ninja was Benikage, who went to a ninja school and witnessed the techniques.

Okay, then. Bowser could simply reposition the Clown Car.

Except Kirby can inhale in the air, so...

Ah. Still, I can't imagine he would be able to react in time to Lumas coming in from all angles.

Again, something the creators did so you could actually play the game.

And which makes this black hole different from a real one.

A) Though pretty much everyone on the internet agrees with that guideline, so not just the one website.
B) I wasn't really bringing up that more people agreed with it, I was bringing up that it was common knowledge.

A) Ad populum.
B) It's common opinion, not common knowledge. Common knowledge is "the sky is blue". Common opinion is "we shouldn't eat dirt".

Those are all parts of power levels.

Well, that's a bit of a misnomer. How exactly are these calculated?

They do some pretty decent damage. I wouldn't imagine they'd do that much anyways, taking into play Kirby's durability (he took a planetary explosion in the ending of KTD.

If a simple spike and the boss's attacks deal similar damage, those attacks aren't very powerful.

Not agreeing that it can.

Then what was your point?

Good.

And then re-freeze once it wears off.

Kirby teleporting (or actually starting the teleport and becoming intangible) is pretty much the same speed.

I see. I doubt that Kirby would be able to react in time.

They may not be power, but they can often be integrated into the actual power level of the character.

Well, that doesn't make much sense.

I think he'd be able to throw a punch weak enough so that it doesn't kill Mac, but strong enough so that it KO's in one punch.

He's likely holding back to not accidently kill Mac (that or good game design is just playing a part here).

The actual perishing done by the song could get through. But with Hyper Voice/Sonic Boom, the only thing done there is sound, so Protect can block it.

If the song is the thing doing the perishing, then I don't see how the perishing could get through while the song is blocked.

Just the fact that it takes into account the character's feats and uses them for rankings.

And how does that make it a reliable source?

Are you not just proving my point?

Sorry, I meant "more".

It may not be moon level, but it's still super strength, and Little Mac should still be around it.

If Little Mac and DK were put in, say, a weight lifting contest and they both maxed out around the same, then I would agree. But they haven't, so I don't.

Even if he was temporary, there would still be enough time for Kirby to grab on and commit a double attack at light speed. In fact, since Magic isn't a limited use ability anymore, it would have a Copy Essence Deluxe, and Kirby could use the Meta Knight summon over and over.

Wait, so limited-use attacks don't have Copy Essences, or...?

Well, we can see that Donkey Kong's blows do less damage than Little Mac's blows, thus proving that Mac is stronger.

That was a typo, and has since been fixed.

Boxing is pretty much punching (and prediction, something which DK has shown), something Donkey Kong is used to, so I don't think he'd have much trouble.

Actually, DK jumps on enemies most of the time. Plus, fighting styles greatly differ, even if they both use punches.

 

[Crystanium]

Many other characters also have claws, and Arwings have pointed fronts, so a kamikaze-type scenario could work.

Arwings could do that, but it wouldn't be a smart thing to do, considering Fox and Falcon would be in the arwings. Samus doesn't need to be and it's unlikely for her to damage her ship too much if she's hitting human-sized targets.

He achieves a similar size in Super Mario Galaxy 2 by using Grand Stars (plus, he's pretty huge in Sunshine). He also has his own black magic, which might be able to help him here.

Bowser's size varies from game to game. That's a given. Shigeru Miyamoto does that on purpose. However, is Bowser given the grand stars? When has he ever used black magic?

Fair enough. How long does it take for Samus to take off with the gunship?

Here, Samus' ship is placed on Tallon Overworld, which is some distance away from where Samus is escaping. Maybe a few kilometers. Here's Samus leaving planet Aether. (They went with a more traditional look in that game, which I liked.) And here is Samus sending her gunship away. If it didn't need to turn around, it'd likely leave the docking bay sooner. I also forgot to mention since I started the entire Metroid Prime trilogy over as of last night, Samus' gunship has a blast shield for extra protection.

The Blue Falcon also hovers, and the Falcon Flyer can reach greater heights.

We've never seen the Falcon Flyer in any game other than SSBM and SSBB. Maybe in SSB4. I haven't played that, yet. Even then, it doesn't look like it's equipped with any firepower and the descriptions for it say nothing about that.

A) And yet the numerous explosions, gunfire, etc. don't.

Who is fighting Dr. Robotnik, other than Sonic?

B) Notice how Sonic is flying through an area filled with pipes, wiring, et cetera. If an explosion occurred there, breaking the core systems of the ship, I'd imagine something would go wrong.

I only saw Sonic breaking through metal doors. I'm not sure what other event is occurring.

Levitation, flight, same difference. He could get on top of the ship and then enter beast form to tear the ship apart.

But why would he get on the gunship in the first place and why would he transform into his beast form? Even if we allow those forms from OoT and TP (which I don't mind), why would Ganondorf transform in one of those two, rather than his most common beast form?

I was saying that the ship would start on the ground, so DK would have no problem. Sorry if that ce out wrong.

It's fine, but I don't see how DK would do that. It's not like Samus is going to stand in one spot for that to happen. The only reason why Ghor was able to deal damage to the gunship was because he got to the docking bay on SkyTown, Elysia first.

So should we use it as a comparison, or no? Of course, this would only be used when there's no equivalent to the attack in the games (i.e. Mario hasn't encountered psychic attacks before, so we use Protect to see if Confusion would work on Rainbow Mario).

Protect looks more like an evasive ability from what the descriptions say, so I'd say no.

Like I said, I don't think it's a problem for most of her fights, but it is a possibility against some characters. Of course, some of the characters who might have the strength to hurt the gunship (ex: Bowser) wouldn't actually be able to beat her regardless. Off the top of my head, and it's just a guess, some characters who can possibly beat her and could probably bang her ship up are Sonic, Mario (as Metal Mario) and Beast Ganon.

I'm not sure why Bowser would try to attack the gunship. His focus should be on Samus. I've also not seen Bowser demonstrate any impressive striking strength, so I wouldn't say he could do much. Sonic would be the only threat here, but again, he'd probably go after Samus, not the ship. I don't see Mario winning against Samus, though.

You didn't specify it had to be a video game. But I don't think it changes the strength of the analogy. It's not meaningless either, they are injured, it just isn't long lasting because they have a form of minor/major regeneration unless damaged fatally a certain way.

I thought it was considered most appropriate to use a video game to describe game mechanics. If anything, though, the HP for those bones would seem more like structural integrity, rather than actual health, since the bones will reform.

He can move fast in WW but more importantly has the ability to briefly turn intangible while moving. Nonetheless I think Light Beam + Darkburst works as well.

No doubt, he's agile in WW, but in most incarnations he moves slower.

Well Ganon is clearly a human powered by darkness and the Triforce of Power, thus has super natural durability. That's not questionable.

Of course, but I think that durability comes mainly from the Triforce of Power.

Link too is likely granted supernatural protection from the Triforce of Courage.

I agree.

But what does them being human have to do with anything?

It's embarrassing that I forgot. I think it was mainly about their mortality and size concerning the darkburst.

They never stack because they're not in the same game. Magic Boomerang stacks on the regular boomerang though.
And I'm aware they can stack, but my point is you haven't specified which incarnation of the Varia Suit you're using and with this rule you don't have to even if they didn't stack.

Really? Or is the magic boomerang replaced?

I've been using the varia suit from Metroid: Other M. If I used all the varia and gravity suits combined with the Phazon suit, then Samus would have a total of 376% damage reduction. I don't think that's fair for anyone on the roster, but I've been using just the varia and gravity suits from MOM and the Phazon suit from MP, giving Samus a damage reduction of 125%.

Another flaw with this: if metaluns are made of the same metal as metal Kirby, why can metalun's be harmed by Fire Kirby, who by all accounts does NOT breathe magma?

Because it's my opinion that the heat Metal Kirby can withstand is less than 1,000 centigrade. A candle flame is usually around that temperature. It wouldn't make sense for it to be 1,300 centigrade as Nerdicon has been saying.

View attachment 48476
A very small portion of the surface is white hot, most of it is yellow, and the rest is orange.

I suppose that depends on when you capture the image.

Naturally occurring Iridium (to my knowledge) very angular, like the metal enemies and Kirby.

Here's more iridium. That looks only like one of many images.

Iron will naturally appear in shapes like this as iron pyrite which melts a little before 1300 C (1188 C to be exact).

It doesn't matter what it naturally looks like. It can be shaped any way.

Looking at the big Metalun, it doesn't really seem to be a match...It looks more like other metals given it's bluish color (especially in the artwork).

It looks like shading, not an actual, bluish tint.

Metal Kirby's artwork looks much more like iridium hence why I made the connection. Now, what metal has a bluish color and is very similar to iridium? Well, Osmium fits that description almost perfectly! I do say almost as one thing doesn't quite check off: hardness.

Hardness isn't necessarily good. You want toughness. Glass is harder than steel, but it's also brittle. I'm working with iron because it's the most common metal in the Milky Way.

Lex actually defeated (or would've defeated) a weaker Superman, meaning he would be more powerful than Superman at his current level, as opposed to Superman with maximum stats.

Dark Samus was defeated by Samus. Dark Samus is more powerful than Samus. Dark Samus can reform her body short of atomic disruption. That must mean Samus can do the same.

It may not be moon level, but it's still super strength, and Little Mac should still be around it.

What feat does Little Mac have to demonstrate super strength? Knocking out someone who has superhuman strength doesn't mean that the winner also has superhuman strength, unless said person with superhuman strength is also super durable.

The punch was pretty much independent of the actual fall.

Not really.

How'd they get Samus' information wrong?

They have it so that Samus has a reaction time capable of responding to hypersonic objects and being able to lift 86+ tons. I mean, hey, I already did that calculation for her strength on my own, but that wasn't considering Zebes' mass and diameter. Besides that "feat" for her superhuman strength is based on her outside of the powered armor, not in it. She's never demonstrated that type of strength outside of the suit in any other game, but she has a feat strength feats in her powered armor. Outside the suit, she can lift her own body weight.

 

[Munomario777]

Arwings could do that, but it wouldn't be a smart thing to do, considering Fox and Falcon would be in the arwings. Samus doesn't need to be and it's unlikely for her to damage her ship too much if she's hitting human-sized targets.

Of course; I was just saying that they could.

Bowser's size varies from game to game. That's a given. Shigeru Miyamoto does that on purpose. However, is Bowser given the grand stars? When has he ever used black magic?

We're taking the best abilities and attributes from each game. Bowser is big in Sunshine, so he can be big here if he wants to.

Thinking about it, Bowser stole the Grand Stars, so I'll say no. His magic prowess is referenced in the Super Mario Bros. manual, and is demonstrated in Mario Party 2 and 4.

Here, Samus' ship is placed on Tallon Overworld, which is some distance away from where Samus is escaping. Maybe a few kilometers. Here's Samus leaving planet Aether. (They went with a more traditional look in that game, which I liked.) And here is Samus sending her gunship away. If it didn't need to turn around, it'd likely leave the docking bay sooner. I also forgot to mention since I started the entire Metroid Prime trilogy over as of last night, Samus' gunship has a blast shield for extra protection.

I see.

We've never seen the Falcon Flyer in any game other than SSBM and SSBB. Maybe in SSB4. I haven't played that, yet. Even then, it doesn't look like it's equipped with any firepower and the descriptions for it say nothing about that.

Ah, my bad. Still, the Blue Falcon should be fast enough to ram the gunship before it takes off.

Who is fighting Dr. Robotnik, other than Sonic?

No one. The gunfire, missiles, etc. from Robotnik's machines are hitting the ship.

I only saw Sonic breaking through metal doors. I'm not sure what other event is occurring.

If you look closely at the door sequence, there are pipes and such surrounding the tunnel. Sonic likely created a spark, broke a pipe, or did something to cause the explosion, and it just got worse from there.

But why would he get on the gunship in the first place and why would he transform into his beast form? Even if we allow those forms from OoT and TP (which I don't mind), why would Ganondorf transform in one of those two, rather than his most common beast form?

He would get on top of the gunship because Samus got inside it. He would turn into a beast form to destroy the gunship, and the OoT/TP versions are larger than the others (AFAIK) and would thus be more effective (preferably the OoT version, since the TP one has a vulnerable spot on the underside).

It's fine, but I don't see how DK would do that. It's not like Samus is going to stand in one spot for that to happen. The only reason why Ghor was able to deal damage to the gunship was because he got to the docking bay on SkyTown, Elysia first.

DK is pretty fast, and might be able to get to the gunship before Samus can get in, start it up, and take off.

Protect looks more like an evasive ability from what the descriptions say, so I'd say no.

The in-game animation shows a force field surrounding the user.

I'm not sure why Bowser would try to attack the gunship. His focus should be on Samus. I've also not seen Bowser demonstrate any impressive striking strength, so I wouldn't say he could do much. Sonic would be the only threat here, but again, he'd probably go after Samus, not the ship. I don't see Mario winning against Samus, though.

If Samus got in the gunship, it would be of his best interest to go after the gunship, would it not? As I've mentioned before, he tore through the castle's interior in NSMBWii.

 

[the king of murder]

He would get on top of the gunship because Samus got inside it. He would turn into a beast form to destroy the gunship, and the OoT/TP versions are larger than the others (AFAIK) and would thus be more effective (preferably the OoT version, since the TP one has a vulnerable spot on the underside).

I want to point out that TP Beast form only has a wound because the holy sages inflicted it upon him with their blade before the Triforce activated inside Ganondorf(the excution scene).

So I think the wound shouldn't exist if we assume the fighters to be 100% healed up and max potential. In Brawl Ganondorf didn't have a wound either. I also want to point out that the reason why Wolf-Link is able to inflict damage to B. Ganon with his teeth is because Link became a "sacred beast".

Remember in Twilight Princess in the beginning Zant turned the light world into Twilight Zone so everyone became a helpless spirit but because Link was blessed with the Triforce, he gained sacred power and was instead transformed into a beast instead. Proof here:
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Wolf_Link

"When Link enters an area shrouded in Twilight, he transforms from his normal Hylian form into a sacred beast." So naturally his teeth became sacred weapons as well.

Everyone who has played TP can verify that you have to use the Master Sword to defeat him though. Ordon Sword/Wood Sword has no effect, Bombs have no effect and you can shoot his wound with arrows but he wont go down to anything but the MS. (You can distract him with the fishing rod though)

: Let's go fishing guys.
: Fishing? Yay.
: *Stab
: *Ouch that hurts you stupid green goblin.
: I didn't invite you, dork.
: But Zelda invited me you Mr tighty pants
: There is only one way to decide all of this
: You are right.
: Tennis.

 

[Reckless Godwin 2.0]

I'm referring to a rule everyone follows, not an opinion everyone believes. The website is reliable seeing as it actually takes feats the character has done, and translates them into an accurate power level.

You shouldn’t use that website for anything other than as a resource for character feats due to the fact that we are using a different set of rules here. You don’t see me using the GameFAQs Wii U Smash board Ike vs series (I wouldn’t use logic from a topic like that after seeing Ike lose to the Ice Climbers of all people).

Marth wouldn't be bringing the Lightsphere with him, so no.

So the only way to beat the Darksphere is to steal it (Mewtwo can but Robin and Lucina can’t because thieves can’t steal from enemies in awakening(Facepalm)), or to be resistant to it’s effect (multiple characters). Since Lucina has the Parallel Falchion she might also have the Lightsphere as well and be able to attack Marth normally. Marth’s lack of good ranged options could prevent him from winning quickly and his opponent may be able to take advantage of him when he collapses from exhaustion (Samus and others). Is the Darksphere’s capabilities related to the Falchion (they both prevent attacks on the holder under most circumstances)?

Shall we do a vote, then?
@ Nerdicon @ ShadowLBlue @Dryn @ Reckless Godwin 2.0 @Dastardly Ridleylash
Should Protect be treated as the equivalent of invincibility items such as the Starman, Invincibility Candy, Super Sonic, et cetera?

@ Munomario777 Protect operates differently from other forms of invincibility because it comes at the cost of attacking instead and has a high failure rate if used consecutively. In other words, no.

I'm not quite sure how it was destroyed. It looks like it was shot by a sniper and then attacked by a few soldiers stabbing into it and pulling away from it.

That Mechon was knocked down by a shot from a Mobile Artillery cannon since the ether rifles lack that sort of power. So either striking it’s weak points or using superior leverage to break it apart.

Notice how Sonic is flying through an area filled with pipes, wiring, et cetera. If an explosion occurred there, breaking the core systems of the ship, I'd imagine something would go wrong.

Shouldn’t a ship like that have backup systems to prevent that sort of thing from happening?

Oh, well nvm.


Why would other characters be immune to the user being protected by it messing with their mind?
EDIT: I saw your lower post and you misinterpreted it. Read it again:
"By itself, it possesses the power to possess an attacker's mind to protect the holder from all harm. However, if the user is attacked using its opposite, the Lightsphere, they are vulnerable. It will eventually corrupt even the noblest of men in both mind and body, noticeably quicker when the holder is experiencing negative emotions, which the sphere amplifies, making it beyond dangerous for humans to use."
The attacker and the holder are one in the same. It makes more sense that if it corrupts the mind of the holder, that the attacker and the holder are the same person because the it constantly posessing your mind corrupts you.

It was just a theory.

Yes

It's type changes every move, what's the issue?

I believe the Darksphere corrupts the mind of it's user as is demonstrated by Gharnef and Hardin http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Darksphere.

A Game Theory?

Ugh, this just got complicated.

The issue is we have a Ninja Frog constantly changing weaknesses, resistances and immunities.

I've been using the varia suit from Metroid: Other M. If I used all the varia and gravity suits combined with the Phazon suit, then Samus would have a total of 376% damage reduction. I don't think that's fair for anyone on the roster, but I've been using just the varia and gravity suits from MOM and the Phazon suit from MP, giving Samus a damage reduction of 125%.

376% damage reduction? Can you explain how the math works out that 376% damage reduction is any better than 100% damage reduction (they both should leave you effectively invulnerable)?

Ah, my bad. Still, the Blue Falcon should be fast enough to ram the gunship before it takes off.

Ramming the gunship with the Blue Falcon would be a terrible idea as it would leave Captain Falcon extremely vulnerable to Samus (his vehicle is the only reason he has the position he does).

 

[Munomario777]

@ Munomario777 Protect operates differently from other forms of invincibility because it comes at the cost of attacking instead and has a high failure rate if used consecutively. In other words, no.

Those seem irrelevant to the things it protects against, though.

Ramming the gunship with the Blue Falcon would be a terrible idea as it would leave Captain Falcon extremely vulnerable to Samus (his vehicle is the only reason he has the position he does).

It does seem to have some good durability to it,so it might survive the impact.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

It seems more like half a second to me. The fastest recorded human speed is 27.28 MPH, not 16.

No, it's 1/4 a second. The fastest human time is irrelevant here, seeing as none of these guys are the fastest humans in their universes.

Then how does he escape in the first place?

Actually, as Shadow pointed out, it could just be a clone of the actual Meta Knight.

Except Super Sonic can fly.

None of the attacks you mentioned were airborne attacks.

What is the most powerful attack that Stone has been shown to resist?

Marx Soul's black hole, which depletes half his health.

Well, let's see. There's no official figure given in the games, so we'll have to do a bit of research. In Mario Kart 8, there are multiple different weight groups. Bowser and Donkey Kong are both "heavyweights", although Bowser is heavier than DK. In Donkey Kong 64, DK's weight is stated to be 800 pounds. So it appears that Bowser weighs a little over 800 pounds. Given that the Clown Car seems to be a bit larger than the average car, it seems likely that they weigh a substantial amount combined (not to mention all the Mechakoopas in there).

A ton is 2000 pounds, DK is 800 pounds. Bowser would be what? 1200 pounds? I doubt that much, but let's work with that anyways. Clown Car is two tons (4000 pounds). A bit bigger, so maybe 5000 pounds. 1200 + 5000 = 6200, and 6200 divided by 2000 is 3.1 pounds. Still not enough. Even more so, since I stretched their weight.

Do you have video of him going faster, then?

I wasn't saying he could go any faster than that, I was saying he didn't go "extremely slow" like you said he did. He'd be fast enough to move around effectively.

Until the attacker, you know, goes around Kirby.

Then Kirby gets in front of him once more.

Slicing something in two =/= burrowing a wide enough hole to travel through.

The whole doesn't have to be wide. Kirby is squishy.

Jet has some charge time. Bowser could use this opportunity to curl into his tough shell (or alternatively, just grow giant and shrug off the attack).

(1:45) Can Bowser's shell survive anything like this?

And even if it can't, Kirby could just fly into the shell's hole.

Okay, then. Bowser could simply reposition the Clown Car.

Kirby simply teleports again. Onto Bowser, this time. (Or he teleports onto Bowser the first time).

Ah. Still, I can't imagine he would be able to react in time to Lumas coming in from all angles.

He doesn't have to. The Lumas, when not transforming into galaxies, do not travel at 200 MPH.

And which makes this black hole different from a real one.

(3:45) Kirby has actually shown resistance to another black hole identical to those of a Luma, seeing as they both are OHKO's. That black hole was also bigger.

Well, that's a bit of a misnomer. How exactly are these calculated?

Speed is normally calculated by the speed of things the character has dealt with, while intelligence is dealt with by the facts someone knows or if they're good at being a certain occupation.

If a simple spike and the boss's attacks deal similar damage, those attacks aren't very powerful.

Boss attacks do more damage.

Then what was your point?

I don't know.

And then re-freeze once it wears off.

This problem can simply be solved by dropping the crystal and picking it back up once Sonic begins his time freeze.

I see. I doubt that Kirby would be able to react in time.

I believe he could.

Well, that doesn't make much sense.

Speed, intelligence, etc. are things that can be replicated in any fight. They can be incorporated in a character's ability to defeat people, rather than outside influences.

He's likely holding back to not accidently kill Mac (that or good game design is just playing a part here).

Even so, he'd still be able to throw one doing a lot of damage.

If the song is the thing doing the perishing, then I don't see how the perishing could get through while the song is blocked.

Then that would just mean some sounds are blocked while others aren't.

And how does that make it a reliable source?

Why wouldn't that make it reliable?

If Little Mac and DK were put in, say, a weight lifting contest and they both maxed out around the same, then I would agree. But they haven't, so I don't.

Then we'd have to disagree there.

Wait, so limited-use attacks don't have Copy Essences, or...?

Some do, like Copy.

Actually, DK jumps on enemies most of the time. Plus, fighting styles greatly differ, even if they both use punches.

How would they differ if both using the same attack?

Protect looks more like an evasive ability from what the descriptions say, so I'd say no.

2-3.

Dark Samus was defeated by Samus. Dark Samus is more powerful than Samus. Dark Samus can reform her body short of atomic disruption. That must mean Samus can do the same.

How is Dark Samus more powerful than Samus?

What feat does Little Mac have to demonstrate super strength? Knocking out someone who has superhuman strength doesn't mean that the winner also has superhuman strength, unless said person with superhuman strength is also super durable.

His punches are comparable to Donkey Kong's.

Not really.

It would be different if he just stuck his fist down, but he winded up a bit, meaning his arm was providing the force rather than the fall.

A) Ad populum.
B) It's common opinion, not common knowledge. Common knowledge is "the sky is blue". Common opinion is "we shouldn't eat dirt".

They have it so that Samus has a reaction time capable of responding to hypersonic objects and being able to lift 86+ tons. I mean, hey, I already did that calculation for her strength on my own, but that wasn't considering Zebes' mass and diameter. Besides that "feat" for her superhuman strength is based on her outside of the powered armor, not in it. She's never demonstrated that type of strength outside of the suit in any other game, but she has a feat strength feats in her powered armor. Outside the suit, she can lift her own body weight.

You shouldn’t use that website for anything other than as a resource for character feats due to the fact that we are using a different set of rules here. You don’t see me using the GameFAQs Wii U Smash board Ike vs series (I wouldn’t use logic from a topic like that after seeing Ike lose to the Ice Climbers of all people).

Then if you don't want me to refer to it, then I won't.

So the only way to beat the Darksphere is to steal it (Mewtwo can but Robin and Lucina can’t because thieves can’t steal from enemies in awakening(Facepalm)), or to be resistant to it’s effect (multiple characters). Since Lucina has the Parallel Falchion she might also have the Lightsphere as well and be able to attack Marth normally. Marth’s lack of good ranged options could prevent him from winning quickly and his opponent may be able to take advantage of him when he collapses from exhaustion (Samus and others). Is the Darksphere’s capabilities related to the Falchion (they both prevent attacks on the holder under most circumstances)?

As Shadow pointed out, the gems are pretty much powerless in Lucina's time, so the Lightsphere wouldn't do anything for her. The Darksphere's capabilities are different from Falchion's, seeing as the former negates all damage while the latter negates physical damage.

@ Munomario777 Protect operates differently from other forms of invincibility because it comes at the cost of attacking instead and has a high failure rate if used consecutively. In other words, no.

3-3.

 

[Crystanium]

We're taking the best abilities and attributes from each game. Bowser is big in Sunshine, so he can be big here if he wants to.

Why is "large" a better attribute?

Thinking about it, Bowser stole the Grand Stars, so I'll say no. His magic prowess is referenced in the Super Mario Bros. manual, and is demonstrated in Mario Party 2 and 4.

Is Mario Party 2 and 4 canon, or a spin-off?

I see.

If you look closely at the door sequence, there are pipes and such surrounding the tunnel. Sonic likely created a spark, broke a pipe, or did something to cause the explosion, and it just got worse from there.

So it's a chain reaction, not a single blow.

He would get on top of the gunship because Samus got inside it. He would turn into a beast form to destroy the gunship, and the OoT/TP versions are larger than the others (AFAIK) and would thus be more effective (preferably the OoT version, since the TP one has a vulnerable spot on the underside).

Why would Samus get in her ship? She can control it wirelessly. Why would Ganondorf use OoT/TP versions, rather than his most common form?

DK is pretty fast, and might be able to get to the gunship before Samus can get in, start it up, and take off.

Hm, I don't know. Care to calculate DK's speed?

The in-game animation shows a force field surrounding the user.

Odd.

If Samus got in the gunship, it would be of his best interest to go after the gunship, would it not? As I've mentioned before, he tore through the castle's interior in NSMBWii.

It would, but I don't recall saying Samus would enter her ship. Your castle interior example assumes Bowser is at his largest.

I also want to point out that the reason why Wolf-Link is able to inflict damage to B. Ganon with his teeth is because Link became a "sacred beast".

A possible reference to the fact that Link is a wielder of the Triforce of Courage and not necessarily sacred himself. From what I recall, this is coming from Midna, so it's merely what she perceives Link to be. I also remember her calling Link a "divine beast", but no one would think Link is a god. Looking it up, I recalled correctly.

"When Link enters an area shrouded in Twilight, he transforms from his normal Hylian form into a sacred beast." So naturally his teeth became sacred weapons as well.

Can you prove that? After all, it seems rather odd that Link would focus solely on the wound, rather than anywhere else if being a "sacred beast" meant he could harm Ganondorf in the same way the master sword can.

Everyone who has played TP can verify that you have to use the Master Sword to defeat him though. Ordon Sword/Wood Sword has no effect, Bombs have no effect and you can shoot his wound with arrows but he wont go down to anything but the MS. (You can distract him with the fishing rod though)

Is this when Ganondorf is a beast or a human? I can throw the iron ball at Ganondorf, but nothing happens, either. If I recall correctly, it goes through Ganondorf.

376% damage reduction? Can you explain how the math works out that 376% damage reduction is any better than 100% damage reduction (they both should leave you effectively invulnerable)?

I'm not sure, honestly. You'd think 100% damage reduction would mean you're invulnerable.

How is Dark Samus more powerful than Samus?

Phazon enhancement. By the end of Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, Dark Samus is pure, Phazon energy. She can reform her body short of atomic disruption and her abilities like her boost and jump are superior to Samus' own.

His punches are comparable to Donkey Kong's.

How do you determine that?

It would be different if he just stuck his fist down, but he winded up a bit, meaning his arm was providing the force rather than the fall.

I'm not sure how winding one's arm gives more speed. It's mass and acceleration that do it, not winding one's arm.

 

[Munomario777]

No, it's 1/4 a second. The fastest human time is irrelevant here, seeing as none of these guys are the fastest humans in their universes.

It seems more like 1/2 to me, but we'd need some frame measurements or something similar to be sure.

Seeing how agile most characters here are, they seem superhuman as far as physical abilities go.

Actually, as Shadow pointed out, it could just be a clone of the actual Meta Knight.

And that clone has only been shown to slice and dice.

None of the attacks you mentioned were airborne attacks.

Super Sonic (or even regular Sonic) can Boost and Spin Attack in midair.

Marx Soul's black hole, which depletes half his health.

And doesn't behave like a real black hole.

A ton is 2000 pounds, DK is 800 pounds. Bowser would be what? 1200 pounds? I doubt that much, but let's work with that anyways. Clown Car is two tons (4000 pounds). A bit bigger, so maybe 5000 pounds. 1200 + 5000 = 6200, and 6200 divided by 2000 is 3.1 pounds. Still not enough. Even more so, since I stretched their weight.

I'd imagine that Kirby would still have trouble with it. Plus, Bowser could just go giant (like he is in games such as Sunshine) and sit on it, making it impossible for Kirby to begin to lift it.

I wasn't saying he could go any faster than that, I was saying he didn't go "extremely slow" like you said he did. He'd be fast enough to move around effectively.

I don't see that being an effective method of transportation.

Then Kirby gets in front of him once more.

Stone Kirby cannot move, and Stone + Cutter is far too slow.

The whole doesn't have to be wide. Kirby is squishy.

I can't imagine him squishing to a razor-sharp thickness.

Can Bowser's shell survive anything like this?

It can survive Mario's ground pound, the force of which I've demonstrated in the past.

And even if it can't, Kirby could just fly into the shell's hole.

And Bowser could spin around rapidly to prevent htat.

Kirby simply teleports again. Onto Bowser, this time. (Or he teleports onto Bowser the first time).

And he could move the clown car again.

He doesn't have to. The Lumas, when not transforming into galaxies, do not travel at 200 MPH.

They do travel at those speeds when they're transforming, though.

Kirby has actually shown resistance to another black hole identical to those of a Luma, seeing as they both are OHKO's. That black hole was also bigger.

Could you provide a timestamp please? I assume you're not referring to the giant mouth that's obviously not a black hole.

Speed is normally calculated by the speed of things the character has dealt with, while intelligence is dealt with by the facts someone knows or if they're good at being a certain occupation.

Shouldn't speed be calculated by how fast the character has actually gone?

Boss attacks do more damage.

What does a normal enemy attack deal, and what does this boss's attack deal?

This problem can simply be solved by dropping the crystal and picking it back up once Sonic begins his time freeze.

Is that possible in the original game? If so, then Sonic could simply use the time between dropping it and picking it back up.

I believe he could.

Has Kirby reacted to an enemy suddenly appearing in front of him and then instantly attacking?

Speed, intelligence, etc. are things that can be replicated in any fight. They can be incorporated in a character's ability to defeat people, rather than outside influences.

But they're not the same as power.

Even so, he'd still be able to throw one doing a lot of damage.

And risk killing Little Mac and being disqualified.

Then that would just mean some sounds are blocked while others aren't.

I don't see why this would make it a faulty comparison (to other invincibility techniques/items).

Why wouldn't that make it reliable?

Just because something focuses on a particular field doesn't mean that it's reliable.

Some do, like Copy.

Does Crash?

How would they differ if both using the same attack?

Soccer/worldwide football and American football both involve kicking, yet they are very different.

How is Dark Samus more powerful than Samus?

"Dark Samus can reform her body short of atomic disruption."

His punches are comparable to Donkey Kong's.

And less powerful than Donkey Kong's.

Why is "large" a better attribute?

He can crush things more easily, and he would be more durable.

Is Mario Party 2 and 4 canon, or a spin-off?

There's no established canon in the Mario series, although I don't see why we shouldn't include it.

So it's a chain reaction, not a single blow.

Essentially. Breaking through the security doors is still rather impressive, though.

Why would Samus get in her ship? She can control it wirelessly.

Can she control it with the finesse required in this situation? Either way, Ganon could still just attack Samus if she doesn't get in the ship.

Why would Ganondorf use OoT/TP versions, rather than his most common form?

Because they're more powerful.

Hm, I don't know. Care to calculate DK's speed?

It all depends on how far apart they start, which I think we should vote on.

@ Kirby Dragons @ ShadowLBlue @ Reckless Godwin 2.0 @BaganSmashBros how far apart should the characters start in a match?

Odd.

"Evade" can mean "avoid", and the user is avoiding being affected by attacks. So, based on this information, do you have a different vote?

It would, but I don't recall saying Samus would enter her ship. Your castle interior example assumes Bowser is at his largest.

If Samus doesn't enter her ship, Bowser just targets her instead. Bowser is that large in Sunshine.

A possible reference to the fact that Link is a wielder of the Triforce of Courage and not necessarily sacred himself. From what I recall, this is coming from Midna, so it's merely what she perceives Link to be. I also remember her calling Link a "divine beast", but no one would think Link is a god. Looking it up, I recalled correctly.

If that is the cause, that would still set him apart, since most characters don't have a part of the Triforce inside of them.

Can you prove that? After all, it seems rather odd that Link would focus solely on the wound, rather than anywhere else if being a "sacred beast" meant he could harm Ganondorf in the same way the master sword can.

It's likely that the Beast Ganon form is more protected than normal (that or the fangs just aren't as potent as the Master Sword).

 

[Crystanium]

He can crush things more easily, and he would be more durable.

Yes, those are true, but why is "large" better?

There's no established canon in the Mario series, although I don't see why we shouldn't include it.

Well, we know Bowser is not a friend of Mario's, nor is Wario or Donkey Kong, so it's odd that they would play games together. There's also no story behind the Mario Party games from what I'm aware of.

Essentially. Breaking through the security doors is still rather impressive, though.

I thought it was pretty cool.

Can she control it with the finesse required in this situation? Either way, Ganon could still just attack Samus if she doesn't get in the ship.

I'm not seeing why finesse would matter.

Because they're more powerful.

That's a tad bit subjective and from what I'd suspect, the human-sized beast incarnations likely have more options to work with, rather than swinging large blades or ramming into and going through portals.

"Evade" can mean "avoid", and the user is avoiding being affected by attacks. So, based on this information, do you have a different vote?

I suppose it would change my vote.

If Samus doesn't enter her ship, Bowser just targets her instead. Bowser is that large in Sunshine.

But which size is most common?

If that is the cause, that would still set him apart, since most characters don't have a part of the Triforce inside of them.

Well, yeah, but that's all he'd be. It wouldn't mean he's innately sacred any more than it would mean he's a god.

It's likely that the Beast Ganon form is more protected than normal (that or the fangs just aren't as potent as the Master Sword).

Any other part of the chest or stomach would have been just as vulnerable when Ganondorf was knocked over.

 

[Munomario777]

Yes, those are true, but why is "large" better?

Because of the things I just mentioned.

Well, we know Bowser is not a friend of Mario's, nor is Wario or Donkey Kong, so it's odd that they would play games together. There's also no story behind the Mario Party games from what I'm aware of.

Bowser isn't friends with Mario in the party games (case in point, Bowser Party), and DK and Mario are rather chummy. The original arcade games feature the past Donkey Kong, now known as Cranky Kong, and the Mario VS DK series often ends with Mario apologizing if I'm not mistaken (in fact, Tipping Stars reveals that it was all some sort of surprise party for Mario).

As for Wario, he teams up with Mario in the DS version of Super Mario 64, and rivals can still rival each other in board games, sports, etc.

I thought it was pretty cool.

Quite.

I'm not seeing why finesse would matter.

It does when you're guiding a ship at high speeds into a rather small target.

That's a tad bit subjective and from what I'd suspect, the human-sized beast incarnations likely have more options to work with, rather than swinging large blades or ramming into and going through portals.

They're larger, and seem to have more brute force behind them. They each have their strengths and weaknesses, of course.

I suppose it would change my vote.

Okay, so shall I count you as "for" then?

But which size is most common?

He's most often not that size, but he does fluctuate even within games. In Sunshine, for example, he shrinks after his defeat (which wouldn't quite apply here). In Bowser's Inside Story, he can grow giant when he gets a rush of adrenaline. He also has various items to make himself grow in multiple games (as well as the black magic I mentioned before).

Well, yeah, but that's all he'd be. It wouldn't mean he's innately sacred any more than it would mean he's a god.

The Triforce is a relic created by the gods, so having it would certainly help defeat Ganon.

Any other part of the chest or stomach would have been just as vulnerable when Ganondorf was knocked over.

Why is that? Only one area is scarred.

 

[the king of murder]

A possible reference to the fact that Link is a wielder of the Triforce of Courage and not necessarily sacred himself. From what I recall, this is coming from Midna, so it's merely what she perceives Link to be. I also remember her calling Link a "divine beast", but no one would think Link is a god. Looking it up, I recalled correctly.

The Triforce itself has sacred power. Those who have the power of the Triforce should posses sacred power as well. The fact that Zelda(who has the Triforce as well) wasn't a spirit should prove that her body has been blessed with the sacred power too btw.

Can you prove that? After all, it seems rather odd that Link would focus solely on the wound, rather than anywhere else if being a "sacred beast" meant he could harm Ganondorf in the same way the master sword can.

The wound was his most vulnerable spot. I don't see why he should go for anything else. Ganons other parts can't be damaged by Link, not even the Master Sword.

Is this when Ganondorf is a beast or a human? I can throw the iron ball at Ganondorf, but nothing happens, either. If I recall correctly, it goes through Ganondorf.

Yes it is the human form.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

It seems more like 1/2 to me, but we'd need some frame measurements or something similar to be sure.

If you pause and play that second over for the length of time it took Kirby to travel, you'd get about three or four times.

Seeing how agile most characters here are, they seem superhuman as far as physical abilities go.

Do these characters dodge anything causing them to have speed at superhuman?

And that clone has only been shown to slice and dice.

Because that's what Kirby wants him to do. The clone isn't disabled or anything, there's nothing stopping him from doing something else.

Super Sonic (or even regular Sonic) can Boost and Spin Attack in midair.

Then he'd just heal the damage using Meat.

And doesn't behave like a real black hole.

Point?

I'd imagine that Kirby would still have trouble with it. Plus, Bowser could just go giant (like he is in games such as Sunshine) and sit on it, making it impossible for Kirby to begin to lift it.

I will bring up another method of escape, then. He goes Mini Kirby (four inches tall) and squeezes under the car.

Stone Kirby cannot move, and Stone + Cutter is far too slow.

The Helper gets behind Kirby.

I can't imagine him squishing to a razor-sharp thickness.

When Kirby cuts things with the Ultra Sword, they always end up smooth.

And Bowser could spin around rapidly to prevent htat.

Does he spin at Mach 5 speeds?

And he could move the clown car again.

How would he do that if Kirby's grabbing onto him and constantly hurting him?

They do travel at those speeds when they're transforming, though.

Kirby simply turns around to inhale all the Lumas.

Could you provide a timestamp please? I assume you're not referring to the giant mouth that's obviously not a black hole.

That's exactly what I'm referring to.
"I've also heard there's something terrible nearby. It's some sort of creature that makes black holes that will suck you in..."

Shouldn't speed be calculated by how fast the character has actually gone?

It's usually calculated by the character evading attacks at high speeds, or keeping up with characters traveling at high speeds.

What does a normal enemy attack deal, and what does this boss's attack deal?

Enemy attacks deal around 1/7 or 1/8 damage to their opponent, while boss attacks do about 1/5.

Is that possible in the original game? If so, then Sonic could simply use the time between dropping it and picking it back up.

It's actually possible, and if Sonic starts to freeze time, Kirby just picks up the stone again.

Has Kirby reacted to an enemy suddenly appearing in front of him and then instantly attacking?

Yep, Daroach.

But they're not the same as power.

They can still be factored into the character being able to beat opponents.

And risk killing Little Mac and being disqualified.

DK has punched opponents hard without actually killing them before.

Just because something focuses on a particular field doesn't mean that it's reliable.

My point wasn't that it focused on a particular field.

Does Crash?

...No.

Soccer/worldwide football and American football both involve kicking, yet they are very different.

Soccer and football are two different games with different rules. Punching and boxing do not compare to soccer and football, seeing as punching is included in boxing.

"Dark Samus can reform her body short of atomic disruption."

That doesn't make her more powerful.

And less powerful than Donkey Kong's.

I think collectively, a couple of Mac's punches would equal one of Kong's punches in strength.

 

[Munomario777]

If you pause and play that second over for the length of time it took Kirby to travel, you'd get about three or four times.

I don't have access to frame-by-frame playback, but feel free to prove your point.

Do these characters dodge anything causing them to have speed at superhuman?

Link, Samus, etc. are obvious.
Mario (and Luigi) has great leg strength, as shown by his jumps. Plus, Rainbow Stars and Mega Mushrooms further increase his speed.
Yoshi is yet faster than Mario, and the Dash Pepper rockets him to high speeds.
Bowser is giant, so naturally his steps would be as well.
Pikachu is rather quick from what I've heard.
Et cetera, et cetera.

Because that's what Kirby wants him to do. The clone isn't disabled or anything, there's nothing stopping him from doing something else.

Does Kirby tell this clone, "go slash at everything once and then disappear"?

Then he'd just heal the damage using Meat.

And Sonic would simply attack some more (assuming, of course, that it wouldn't OHKO him, which is a strong possibility).

Point?

Oh, sorry. I thought you were implying that Stone Kirby could survive a black hole from, say, Rosalina.

I will bring up another method of escape, then. He goes Mini Kirby (four inches tall) and squeezes under the car.

If the clown car is on the ground, there is no gap.

The Helper gets behind Kirby.

And the attacker goes around Kirby.

When Kirby cuts things with the Ultra Sword, they always end up smooth.

And how does this translate to a wider tunnel? In fact, it seems to slice things clean in two, without making much of a gap (as we see in the volcano clip).

Does he spin at Mach 5 speeds?

No, but I don't see why he would need to.

How would he do that if Kirby's grabbing onto him and constantly hurting him?

By shrugging off the damage, as he does in many boss fights.

Kirby simply turns around to inhale all the Lumas.

He can't inhale in all directions at once.

That's exactly what I'm referring to.
"I've also heard there's something terrible nearby. It's some sort of creature that makes black holes that will suck you in..."

A) Is this specifically stated to be referring to that enemy?
B) As I said earlier, bystander comments don't have much value unless they have that authority.
C) The light around the black hole (such as the actual face) isn't distorted.

It's usually calculated by the character evading attacks at high speeds, or keeping up with characters traveling at high speeds.

Evading attacks doesn't mean much. You could dodge a bullet at normal speeds depending on the factors involved.

Enemy attacks deal around 1/7 or 1/8 damage to their opponent, while boss attacks do about 1/5.

I see. That's not much of a gap.

It's actually possible, and if Sonic starts to freeze time, Kirby just picks up the stone again.

Or Sonic attacks in between uses.

Yep, Daroach.

Could you provide video of this please?

They can still be factored into the character being able to beat opponents.

Yes, but not specifically power.

DK has punched opponents hard without actually killing them before.

I assume you mean bosses, which seem to be tougher than Little Mac.

My point wasn't that it focused on a particular field.

Then what was your point?

...No.

Interesting.

Soccer and football are two different games with different rules. Punching and boxing do not compare to soccer and football, seeing as punching is included in boxing.

Similarly, DK and Punch-Out!! are two different games with different rules.

That doesn't make her more powerful.

You can discuss that with Dryn. I was just pointing out his point.

I think collectively, a couple of Mac's punches would equal one of Kong's punches in strength.

What is your basis for this claim?

 

[Crystanium]

Because of the things I just mentioned.

A large object doesn't necessarily have more mass.

Bowser isn't friends with Mario in the party games (case in point, Bowser Party), and DK and Mario are rather chummy. The original arcade games feature the past Donkey Kong, now known as Cranky Kong, and the Mario VS DK series often ends with Mario apologizing if I'm not mistaken (in fact, Tipping Stars reveals that it was all some sort of surprise party for Mario).

As for Wario, he teams up with Mario in the DS version of Super Mario 64, and rivals can still rival each other in board games, sports, etc.

And does it have a story? People have attempted at making a timeline for the Mario series.

It does when you're guiding a ship at high speeds into a rather small target.

Well, I'd think so, since Samus managed to get her gunship in Metroid Prime to rescue her at the right moment.

They're larger, and seem to have more brute force behind them. They each have their strengths and weaknesses, of course.

But brute force isn't everything.

Okay, so shall I count you as "for" then?

Yeah.

He's most often not that size, but he does fluctuate even within games. In Sunshine, for example, he shrinks after his defeat (which wouldn't quite apply here). In Bowser's Inside Story, he can grow giant when he gets a rush of adrenaline. He also has various items to make himself grow in multiple games (as well as the black magic I mentioned before).

Do you suppose then that the size is actually not Bowser's real size, but that it's a representation of his arrogance? That is, he's puffed up. It's until after he's defeated that his ego is deflated and he has to break the news to Bowser Jr. that Princess Peach is not his mother.

The Triforce is a relic created by the gods, so having it would certainly help defeat Ganon.

Sure, but it wouldn't make Link sacred or divine. These are descriptions Midna gives to Link. It's how she perceives him when realizing Link is the hero. Again, if no one is going to think Link is a god, then it doesn't make sense to think Link is sacred.

Why is that? Only one area is scarred.

Yeah, but if Link's jaws are suddenly sacred, then he wouldn't need to work his way around to get to the wound if he could go for the face or the back.

The Triforce itself has sacred power. Those who have the power of the Triforce should posses sacred power as well. The fact that Zelda(who has the Triforce as well) wasn't a spirit should prove that her body has been blessed with the sacred power too btw.

Well, yeah, since the Triforce itself is a sacred power, but that's all. Is Link a god?

The wound was his most vulnerable spot. I don't see why he should go for anything else. Ganons other parts can't be damaged by Link, not even the Master Sword.

And why not? A possible game mechanic? After all, it's not like the master sword should have to discriminate which part of the body is vulnerable when it's never done that before.

 

[Munomario777]

A large object doesn't necessarily have more mass.

There doesn't seem to be a change in density.

And does it have a story? People have attempted at making a timeline for the Mario series.

Actually, yes. It's rather basic most of the time, but it's still worth mentioning. I'm not sure why not having much of a story would make a game non-canon anyways.

Well, I'd think so, since Samus managed to get her gunship in Metroid Prime to rescue her at the right moment.

Do you have a video of this?

But brute force isn't everything.

But it would be rather helpful here.

Yeah.

Okay, let me count up the votes real quick.
FOR:
Myself
Dastardly Ridleylash
Dryn
ShadowLBlue
AGAINST:
Reckless Godwin 2.0
Kirby Dragons

It appears that we've reached a majority, so Protect can be used as an equivalent for invincibility items if they haven't been shown to differ in that particular type of damage. I also propose that we apply the same rule for other invincibility items (i.e. Invincibility Candy compares to Starman).

Do you suppose then that the size is actually not Bowser's real size, but that it's a representation of his arrogance? That is, he's puffed up. It's until after he's defeated that his ego is deflated and he has to break the news to Bowser Jr. that Princess Peach is not his mother.

I highly doubt that. It seems to fall under the "get hurt to shrink" Mario logic (except here he's falling from a great height, which makes sense given Bowser's durability), although oddly enough, that's not in Sunshine.

Sure, but it wouldn't make Link sacred or divine. These are descriptions Midna gives to Link. It's how she perceives him when realizing Link is the hero. Again, if no one is going to think Link is a god, then it doesn't make sense to think Link is sacred.

Link has the Triforce, which is created by the gods. Ganon is vulnerable to weapons created by the gods, so it makes sense that Link would be able to harm Ganon.

Yeah, but if Link's jaws are suddenly sacred, then he wouldn't need to work his way around to get to the wound if he could go for the face or the back.

Why not?

Well, yeah, since the Triforce itself is a sacred power, but that's all. Is Link a god?

You only need a sacred power, like the Triforce or the Master Sword.

And why not? A possible game mechanic? After all, it's not like the master sword should have to discriminate which part of the body is vulnerable when it's never done that before.

No, because Ganon's defenses (or skin) are broken in the wounded area.

 

[Crystanium]

There doesn't seem to be a change in density.

What's Bowser's density? 3 kg/m^3?

Actually, yes. It's rather basic most of the time, but it's still worth mentioning. I'm not sure why not having much of a story would make a game non-canon anyways.

Because myths are typically written in stories.

Do you have a video of this?

It was in one of the three videos I posted showing how fast the gunship can leave land.

But it would be rather helpful here.

That took Ghor some time.

I highly doubt that. It seems to fall under the "get hurt to shrink" Mario logic (except here he's falling from a great height, which makes sense given Bowser's durability), although oddly enough, that's not in Sunshine.

But Mario fell and his head got stuck in the sand. He didn't shrink.

Link has the Triforce, which is created by the gods. Ganon is vulnerable to weapons created by the gods, so it makes sense that Link would be able to harm Ganon.

Yeah, but Link is not the Triforce and Link didn't use a weapon created by the gods. Again, is Link a god? This hasn't been addressed. And why are we taking Midna's perception literally?

Why not?

Because you're under the impression that Link's teeth are sacred. It's like saying, "Well, Superman has an open wound, so Kryptonite is only going to work in that specific spot and not anywhere else on his body like it used to."

You only need a sacred power, like the Triforce or the Master Sword.

Yeah, but Link's teeth are neither.

No, because Ganon's defenses (or skin) are broken in the wounded area.

Ganondorf looks like a warthog in that form. It doesn't look like he'd have any added defense anywhere else on his body. Again, even if that were the case, why would that make a difference if Link's teeth are suddenly sacred?

 

[Munomario777]

What's Bowser's density? 3 kg/m^3?

I'm not sure, but I don't see why it would change when he got bigger.

Because myths are typically written in stories.

What indicates that Mario Party is a myth?

It was in one of the three videos I posted showing how fast the gunship can leave land.

Ah, I see. Could you repost that when you get a chance (as well as a time stamp)?

That took Ghor some time.

It didn't take Ganon very long to destroy a castle IIRC. (Or maybe I'm misremembering things.) Plus, wouldn't Samus be outside the gunship?

But Mario fell and his head got stuck in the sand. He didn't shrink.

True.

Yeah, but Link is not the Triforce and Link didn't use a weapon created by the gods. Again, is Link a god? This hasn't been addressed. And why are we taking Midna's perception literally?

What really matters is if a weapon is empowered by a godly force (which is often the case for weapons created by the gods). The Triforce is a godly force, and is powering Link (and by extension his fangs).

I don't see where Midna comes into all of this, nor do I see why Link not being a god matters.

Because you're under the impression that Link's teeth are sacred. It's like saying, "Well, Superman has an open wound, so Kryptonite is only going to work in that specific spot and not anywhere else on his body like it used to."

Kryptonite has been shown to work on the rest of Superman's body. This is not the case with the fangs and Beast Ganon.

Yeah, but Link's teeth are neither.

See above.

Ganondorf looks like a warthog in that form. It doesn't look like he'd have any added defense anywhere else on his body. Again, even if that were the case, why would that make a difference if Link's teeth are suddenly sacred?

He looks like a human in his normal form, yet he seems to have some sort of protection. It makes a difference that the teeth have godly power because that's what Ganondorf is vulnerable to.

 

[Crystanium]

What indicates that Mario Party is a myth?

I should have clarified. According to Wikipedia, "mythology" is an alternative word for "canon".

Ah, I see. Could you repost that when you get a chance (as well as a time stamp)?

Here.

It didn't take Ganon very long to destroy a castle IIRC. (Or maybe I'm misremembering things.) Plus, wouldn't Samus be outside the gunship?

If you're talking about the events in TP, we don't know what happened, but considering Ganon's Tower took time to destroy, I'd say it'd take him a while, especially when he struggles to break out of manacles.

What really matters is if a weapon is empowered by a godly force (which is often the case for weapons created by the gods). The Triforce is a godly force, and is powering Link (and by extension his fangs).

If that's the case, then Link should never have to use the master sword, since his fists should be sacred.

I don't see where Midna comes into all of this, nor do I see why Link not being a god matters.

Because Midna is the one who calls Link "sacred beast" and "divine beast", and if you're going to assume that Link is sacred because he's referred to as "sacred beast", then you must also think Link is a god.

Kryptonite has been shown to work on the rest of Superman's body. This is not the case with the fangs and Beast Ganon.

Probably because it's a game mechanic. You can lock onto the wound, after all.

He looks like a human in his normal form, yet he seems to have some sort of protection. It makes a difference that the teeth have godly power because that's what Ganondorf is vulnerable to.

In his normal form, yes. He does seem to have some protection. Again (because I feel I need to reiterate as it's not being addressed), if the teeth are sacred, then it shouldn't matter what other part of Ganondorf is bitten.

 

[Munomario777]

I should have clarified. According to Wikipedia, "mythology" is an alternative word for "canon".

Ah, I see.

Here.

Okay, thanks. She should be able to guide it into opponents, although perhaps not at too high speeds (and she might be vulnerable while piloting it remotely).

If you're talking about the events in TP, we don't know what happened, but considering Ganon's Tower took time to destroy, I'd say it'd take him a while, especially when he struggles to break out of manacles.

I think I recall someone saying a while back that he turned into a flaming head and exploded on the castle. Is that what you're referring to?

If that's the case, then Link should never have to use the master sword, since his fists should be sacred.

Or the Master Sword is just more powerful than Link's fist.

Because Midna is the one who calls Link "sacred beast" and "divine beast", and if you're going to assume that Link is sacred because he's referred to as "sacred beast", then you must also think Link is a god.

Oh, I'm not taking that into account.

Probably because it's a game mechanic. You can lock onto the wound, after all.

How does lockong onto something make that thing a game mechanic?

In his normal form, yes. He does seem to have some protection. Again (because I feel I need to reiterate as it's not being addressed), if the teeth are sacred, then it shouldn't matter what other part of Ganondorf is bitten.

A key can open a door, but only if it goes into the keyhole; an axe can open a door even outside the keyhole. Axe : key : : Master Sword : fangs.

 

[Crystanium]

I think I recall someone saying a while back that he turned into a flaming head and exploded on the castle. Is that what you're referring to?

That's what I'm referring to. The castle blew up, but from the looks of it, the cause was due to Midna using the Fused Shadows. Again, I don't know. It could be true that Ganondorf as a flaming head blew up and destroyed the castle as a result, but no one knows.

Or the Master Sword is just more powerful than Link's fist.

There are swords more powerful than the master sword. It has nothing to do with the damage the master sword can do because when it lacks the power to repel evil, it doesn't even harm Ganondorf.

Oh, I'm not taking that into account.

You should. It provides a better explanation when used with "sacred beast".

How does lockong onto something make that thing a game mechanic?

Unless Link is using a heads-up display, he'd actually have to use eye-hand coordination, not a lock-on system that was utilized since OoT. It's a mechanic.

A key can open a door, but only if it goes into the keyhole; an axe can open a door even outside the keyhole. Axe : key : : Master Sword : fangs.

A bullet can pierce a warthog, regardless of whether or not the bullet is already hitting a wounded area.

 

[the king of murder]

@Dryn
I believe Links teeth being sacred or not now becomes a subjective topic. I cannot give you hard, concrete proof that the Triforce made his teeth sacred as well but it is heavily impilied to do so because the Triforce itself gives power to Link.

"O brave youth... In the land covered in twilight, where people roam as spirits, you were transformed into a blue-eyed beast... That was a sign... It was a sign that the powers of the chosen one rest within you... and that they are awakening."-Faron

Link could challenge Ganon to a fist fight but I doubt he would win.
Also a question to you. You seem to be the most knowledgeable of the Metroid series. What is your opinion of strength? I already stated several times she must have superhuman strength because of some datas like gravity and her pulling Vorash. In terms of strength, do you think she beats the following?(with power gauntlets and stuff) I am really curious.

 

[Crystanium]

@Dryn
I believe whetever Links teeth are sacred or not now becomes a subjective topic. I cannot give you hard, concrete proof that the Triforce made his teeth sacred as well but it is heavily impilied to do so because the Triforce itself gives power to Link.

"O brave youth... In the land covered in twilight, where people roam as spirits, you were transformed into a blue-eyed beast... That was a sign... It was a sign that the powers of the chosen one rest within you... and that they are awakening."-Faron

Link could challenge Ganon to a fist fight but I doubt he would win.

I agree it's become a subjective topic. I honestly am not sure why I'm discussing it to begin with, but I think Link is only referred to as "sacred beast" and "divine beast" because he is the wielder of the Triforce of Courage and that's all. I'm currently playing through the game again, so it'll take me some time to get to Ganondorf.

Also a question to you. You seem to be the most knowledgeable of the Metroid series. What is your opinion of strength? I already stated several times she must have superhuman strength because of some datas like gravity and her pulling Vorash. In terms of strength, do you think she beats the following?(with power gauntlets and stuff) I am really curious.

Samus outside of the suit has only demonstrated the ability to lift her own body weight with one arm, so that's 180 kg. (396.83 lb.) with two. In the armor, I calculated Samus could throw 177 metric tons. I'm not sure how much Bowser can lift, nor do I know how much DK can lift. Ganondorf also lacks any physical strength feats. Link with just the golden gauntlets alone can lift somewhat more than Samus. I don't know anything about Ike. Mario may be up to 10 tons. I don't know for certain on that. I'm not certain of Wario's strength.

 

[Munomario777]

That's what I'm referring to. The castle blew up, but from the looks of it, the cause was due to Midna using the Fused Shadows. Again, I don't know. It could be true that Ganondorf as a flaming head blew up and destroyed the castle as a result, but no one knows.

I see. The battle between them destroyed the castle, and since Midna was nowhere near Ganon's power in that fight, I think it's safe to say that he had more of a role in that than Midna did.

There are swords more powerful than the master sword. It has nothing to do with the damage the master sword can do because when it lacks the power to repel evil, it doesn't even harm Ganondorf.

I fail to see how the existence of stronger swords is relevant here.

It's likely that the fangs simply lack that "power to repel evil" (or possess a weaker version of it), and thus cannot harm Ganon unless he's vulnerable in a way that a wound would provide.

You should. It provides a better explanation when used with "sacred beast".

But like you said, Midna's comments don't mean much here.

Unless Link is using a heads-up display, he'd actually have to use eye-hand coordination, not a lock-on system that was utilized since OoT. It's a mechanic.

Locking on is a game mechanic. I fail to see how this translates to the fangs only affecting the weak spot being a game mechanic.

A bullet can pierce a warthog, regardless of whether or not the bullet is already hitting a wounded area.

Warthogs are not immune to bullets. Ganon is immune to weapons besides a select few. Allow me to provide a more apt comparison:

Bullets cannot destroy a sufficiently armored tank. If there is a hole in the armor, though, it could cause damage to the engine and such.

 

[Crystanium]

I fail to see how the existence of stronger swords is relevant here.

You were saying that the master sword is probably stronger. I said it wouldn't matter either way. All that'd matter is the power to repel evil.

It's likely that the fangs simply lack that "power to repel evil" (or possess a weaker version of it), and thus cannot harm Ganon unless he's vulnerable in a way that a wound would provide.

Then that brings the whole "sacred beast" argument to naught.

Locking on is a game mechanic. I fail to see how this translates to the fangs only affecting the weak spot being a game mechanic.

Let me put it another way, since you're not understanding. Assume "sacred" means "the power to repel evil". That's why Link could hurt Ganondorf with his teeth. Or, that's what you and the king of murder seemed to imply, hence the whole reason for bringing up "sacred beast" and Wolf Link's teeth in the first place. If "sacred" was understood as "the power to repel evil", then it wouldn't matter where Link bit Ganondorf. I don't know how else to make this clearer.

Bullets cannot destroy a sufficiently armored tank. If there is a hole in the armor, though, it could cause damage to the engine and such.

Well, there are anti-tank rifles, but I understand your analogy.

 

[Munomario777]

You were saying that the master sword is probably stronger. I said it wouldn't matter either way. All that'd matter is the power to repel evil.

Which the fangs do not have.

Then that brings the whole "sacred beast" argument to naught.

M'kay.

Let me put it another way, since you're not understanding. Assume "sacred" means "the power to repel evil". That's why Link could hurt Ganondorf with his teeth. Or, that's what you and the king of murder seemed to imply, hence the whole reason for bringing up "sacred beast" and Wolf Link's teeth in the first place. If "sacred" was understood as "the power to repel evil", then it wouldn't matter where Link bit Ganondorf. I don't know how else to make this clearer.

I don't think I ever referenced Midna, actually. Who said that "sacred" means possessing the power to repel evil?

Well, there are anti-tank rifles, but I understand your analogy.

Ah, yes. I suppose that those could represent the Master Sword, then.

 

[Crystanium]

Which the fangs do not have.

M'kay.

I don't think I ever referenced Midna, actually. Who said that "sacred" means possessing the power to repel evil?

Ah, yes. I suppose that those could represent the Master Sword, then.

You didn't reference Midna, but the "sacred beast" deal was brought up. Oh well.

 

[ShadowLBlue]

I don't see what you're saying here. The bolded part is referring to the user. Since the darksphere relies on corrupting the mind for protecting the user, then characters who are resistant to mind corruption (such as Sonic, as shown in Unleashed) wouldn't be affected.

It possesses the holder's mind to protect them from damage, not the person attacking the holder.

Okay. I agree.

K.

Yeah. DK could probably disable her ship with a few well-placed punches, but Samus would have no trouble defeating him. I'm not sure about Mario defeating Samus (perhaps going Mega Mario while the gunship is taking off and crushing it with Samus inside?).

Samus has a decided edge against Mario, but it's not inconceivably he could win. And yes, Mario going Metal and ground pounding the ship is how I Imagine he'd severely hurt.

Okay, sounds good. If I'm not mistaken, that's three for the proposal (including myself).

If you say so, I haven't actually been keeping count.

Even if he was temporary, there would still be enough time for Kirby to grab on and commit a double attack at light speed. In fact, since Magic isn't a limited use ability anymore, it would have a Copy Essence Deluxe, and Kirby could use the Meta Knight summon over and over.

When did we agree that Kirby get's unlimited use of all of his copies? As far as I recall we only agreed he gets acess to them, not that they're no longer 1 time use. I'm guessing you want a vote?

Well, we can see that Donkey Kong's blows do less damage than Little Mac's blows, thus proving that Mac is stronger.
Boxing is pretty much punching (and prediction, something which DK has shown), something Donkey Kong is used to, so I don't think he'd have much trouble.

You're underestimating it to say it's just punching, but regardless DK's punches dealing less damage than Mac's doesn't mean Mac is stronger, he was probably just intentionally weakened like Sonic characters have their speed nerfed in Mario vs Sonic Olympics.

Bowser's size varies from game to game. That's a given. Shigeru Miyamoto does that on purpose. However, is Bowser given the grand stars? When has he ever used black magic?

He is not given grand stars. Also, we shuld probably vote on which version of Bowser to use since his size vary between games. I propose his size from Super Mario 64 since that's close to his average size.

I'm not sure why Bowser would try to attack the gunship. His focus should be on Samus. I've also not seen Bowser demonstrate any impressive striking strength, so I wouldn't say he could do much. Sonic would be the only threat here, but again, he'd probably go after Samus, not the ship. I don't see Mario winning against Samus, though.

Given his weight and size, it's more an educated guess. I don't know about striking strength, but we have seen him pick up some really heavy stuff so I presume he can translate that to punching/striking strength.
Bowser and sonic could if they wanted to, not necesairly saying either would. I certainly would, just to keep her from having another option.
I think Mario has like a 10% chance.

I thought it was considered most appropriate to use a video game to describe game mechanics. If anything, though, the HP for those bones would seem more like structural integrity, rather than actual health, since the bones will reform.

Interesting thought. Anyway, another example is in Aria of Sorrow (Castelavania) the bosses can't be killed unless you use a Magic Seal on them, but they still are damaged normally by regular attacks.

No doubt, he's agile in WW, but in most incarnations he moves slower.

True

Of course, but I think that durability comes mainly from the Triforce of Power.

I think Twilight Princess (and WW) showed us that.

It's embarrassing that I forgot. I think it was mainly about their mortality and size concerning the darkburst.

mhmmmm

Really? Or is the magic boomerang replaced?

I think you mean regular but yea. I mispoke.

I've been using the varia suit from Metroid: Other M. If I used all the varia and gravity suits combined with the Phazon suit, then Samus would have a total of 376% damage reduction. I don't think that's fair for anyone on the roster, but I've been using just the varia and gravity suits from MOM and the Phazon suit from MP, giving Samus a damage reduction of 125%.

Why not add the Dark and Light suit as well.

Because it's my opinion that the heat Metal Kirby can withstand is less than 1,000 centigrade. A candle flame is usually around that temperature. It wouldn't make sense for it to be 1,300 centigrade as Nerdicon has been saying.

Makes sense.

You shouldn’t use that website for anything other than as a resource for character feats due to the fact that we are using a different set of rules here. You don’t see me using the GameFAQs Wii U Smash board Ike vs series (I wouldn’t use logic from a topic like that after seeing Ike lose to the Ice Climbers of all people).

Agreed, a lot of that is speculation. It's not even "wiki quality".

So the only way to beat the Darksphere is to steal it (Mewtwo can but Robin and Lucina can’t because thieves can’t steal from enemies in awakening(Facepalm)), or to be resistant to it’s effect (multiple characters). Since Lucina has the Parallel Falchion she might also have the Lightsphere as well and be able to attack Marth normally. Marth’s lack of good ranged options could prevent him from winning quickly and his opponent may be able to take advantage of him when he collapses from exhaustion (Samus and others). Is the Darksphere’s capabilities related to the Falchion (they both prevent attacks on the holder under most circumstances)?

Like I told muno, it doesn't effect the foe, it affects the user so no one else would be "immunue' to it. And it's possible, both of them are extremely powerful magic objects.

@ Munomario777 Protect operates differently from other forms of invincibility because it comes at the cost of attacking instead and has a high failure rate if used consecutively. In other words, no.

I think this makes a lot of sense.

@ Munomario777

The issue is we have a Ninja Frog constantly changing weaknesses, resistances and immunities.

Hmmm, good point. Not sure how we handle it.

@ Munomario777
I say around 50 yards is fair.

FYI, I'll be using a back-up laptop for a few weeks so I won't be posting as much since it's speed is TERRIBLE 90% of the time.

@Dryn , @ Kirby Dragons , @BaganSmashBros , @ Reckless Godwin 2.0
I think Bowser should be his normal size since, like Dryn said, being larger isn't necessairly better but we just let him have the ability to grow to his Sunshine size but at the tradeoff of speed for power.

 

[Munomario777]

It possesses the holder's mind to protect them from damage, not the person attacking the holder.

According to the FE wiki, "it possesses the power to posswas an attacker's mind to protect the user from all harm."

Samus has a decided edge against Mario, but it's not inconceivably he could win. And yes, Mario going Metal and ground pounding the ship is how I Imagine he'd severely hurt.

Very true. Also, to be clear, I'm referring to Mega Mario, as in the giant version granted by a Mega Mushroom. Metal Mario could still work though.

When did we agree that Kirby get's unlimited use of all of his copies? As far as I recall we only agreed he gets acess to them, not that they're no longer 1 time use. I'm guessing you want a vote?

I think he should get access to any ability until he loses it, such as by getting hit, discarding it, or using up a limited-use ability.

You're underestimating it to say it's just punching, but regardless DK's punches dealing less damage than Mac's doesn't mean Mac is stronger, he was probably just intentionally weakened like Sonic characters have their speed nerfed in Mario vs Sonic Olympics.

As I said earlier, the whole "DK punches weaker than Little Mac" deal was a typo; I meant to say the opposite.

I think this makes a lot of sense.

@ Munomario777

The vote has already concluded.

Hmmm, good point. Not sure how we handle it.

I don't see the issue. We should handle it like it works in the games; during the move's duration, any move Greninja uses changes its typing.

@ Munomario777
I say around 50 yards is fair.

That seems a bit much for most characters, don't you think?

@Dryn , @ Kirby Dragons , @BaganSmashBros , @ Reckless Godwin 2.0
I think Bowser should be his normal size since, like Dryn said, being larger isn't necessairly better but we just let him have the ability to grow to his Sunshine size but at the tradeoff of speed for power.

Yeah, I'd be down for letting him change size. He does that in Sunshine after all (plus all the games where this happens due to magic).

 

[CBO0tz]

I feel like Ganondorf would be the strongest. Nothing can kill him apart from the Master Sword, and even when he dies he's guaranteed to come back centuries later.

 

[Nerdicon]

SQUIDS!!!

Anyway, I'll get back to work on stuffs...
@ ShadowLBlue did we ever vote on each character only getting one of each item they could have? I don't think we did, and I'm opposed to it. Having one of each item that they can't hold but would make sense (Like Pit bringing some multiplayer items) would be neat too.
This would cause who has can have 99 starmen to fly up the tiers, only characters who can force ring outs or have some sort of invincibility could defeat him.
Lightning attacks (that are clearly lightning bolts such as Thunder or Lightning of Judgment) are all extremely powerful unless proven otherwise in game. Reason being that lightning is only as thin as a pencil but the light it gives off makes it seem that much larger. In video games things such as these might not be represented as well, sort of like speed. A list of lightning moves includes

• Lightning of Judgment
  
• Thunder*, Thunderbolt*, Thundershock*
  
• Thunder Wool, Thunder Beam*, Lightning Bolt, Tri Thunder*
  
• (Spark) Lightning Rod, Lightning Strike, Thunderbolt, Spark Attack*, Super Electric Energy Field*, Double Spark*
  
• Just turning the Monado into energy, other ether users have lightning attacks

*These moves are lightning shaped and share some behaviors, they just aren't spot on

Pit's Lightning of Judgment is a one time use item that summons down several lightning bolts around Pit, he is immune to the bolts himself

Mega Man's Lightning Bolt is similar and causes 4 lightning bolts to fall from the sky (even indoors!) to destroy enemies. Unlike Pit, Mega Man floats when he uses this and is invincible while floating.

Kirby has a few lightning attacks, but none compare to the lightning bolt which travels across the screen instantly above him, while lightning strike goes below him. Double Spark is slower but creates a huge surge of electricity from his crown to destroy his enemies. Lightning Rod actually causes him to get struck by lightning, damaging all enemies near and above him, while he takes no damage himself

Lightning itself is highly dangerous, the danger to humans is mostly that the electricity would stop the heart by effectively frying the pacemaker. It also generates large amounts of heat, but most humans don't feel that as the lightning passes through their body too quickly. In a few of these cases, the lightning could be sustained thus giving their opponents the full force of the 30,000+ K degree heat.

In this arena, lightning is generally a better damaging tool than fire, but less effective than some forms of plasma
Characters that have a general weakness to lightning are
Greninja takes more damage (if he's still water type) while the others have highly exploitable stun animations
Characters that show resistance and/or immunity to lightning are
Mario can negate the damage via the super suit, Ness has the Franklin Badge, and Ganondorf has his holy weaponry shenanigans,

I plan to do more miscellaneous analyses like this one in the future to point out certain aspects of the characters. I hope this is helpful to any people supporting an of these characters. I f have made any mistakes I am open to corrections

 

[Kirby Dragons]

When did we agree that Kirby get's unlimited use of all of his copies? As far as I recall we only agreed he gets acess to them, not that they're no longer 1 time use. I'm guessing you want a vote?

That's the way it is in Kirby: Super Star Ultra, I believe.

You're underestimating it to say it's just punching, but regardless DK's punches dealing less damage than Mac's doesn't mean Mac is stronger, he was probably just intentionally weakened like Sonic characters have their speed nerfed in Mario vs Sonic Olympics.

Donkey Kong seemed to be using pretty much all his strength, considering the fact that he was throwing winding punches.

@ Munomario777
I say around 50 yards is fair.

I'll agree to this.

@Dryn , @ Kirby Dragons , @BaganSmashBros , @ Reckless Godwin 2.0
I think Bowser should be his normal size since, like Dryn said, being larger isn't necessairly better but we just let him have the ability to grow to his Sunshine size but at the tradeoff of speed for power.

Agreed.

The vote has already concluded.

He can change if he wants to.

It's 3-3 once more.

I don't have access to frame-by-frame playback, but feel free to prove your point.

Surely enough, all four of these are taken after the same amount of time, and fit into the same second.

Link, Samus, etc. are obvious.
Mario (and Luigi) has great leg strength, as shown by his jumps. Plus, Rainbow Stars and Mega Mushrooms further increase his speed.
Yoshi is yet faster than Mario, and the Dash Pepper rockets him to high speeds.
Bowser is giant, so naturally his steps would be as well.
Pikachu is rather quick from what I've heard.
Et cetera, et cetera.

Those aren't very many characters you've mentioned there. Also, I fail to see how Mario or Luigi would travel at 18 MPH or faster, even with the things you've mentioned.

Does Kirby tell this clone, "go slash at everything once and then disappear"?

No, that's just what the clone does in that one instance.

And Sonic would simply attack some more (assuming, of course, that it wouldn't OHKO him, which is a strong possibility).

I fail to see how Sonic would land an OHKO on Kirby. Even so, Kirby could simply use his Maxim Tomato.

Oh, sorry. I thought you were implying that Stone Kirby could survive a black hole from, say, Rosalina.

Eh, that's okay.

If the clown car is on the ground, there is no gap.

There doesn't have to be a gap, seeing as Kirby can flatten.

And the attacker goes around Kirby.

And the Helper goes behind Kirby.

And how does this translate to a wider tunnel? In fact, it seems to slice things clean in two, without making much of a gap (as we see in the volcano clip).

Again, it doesn't have to be wide, Kirby can squeeze through it.

No, but I don't see why he would need to.

That's the speed Jet Kirby would fly at.

By shrugging off the damage, as he does in many boss fights.

The Invincibility Candy would constantly damage him, proving quite an effective maneuver. Also, Kirby would simultaneously use Quad Shock, which does tons of damage.

He can't inhale in all directions at once.

Then he uses his black hole resistance to escape. Plus, I fail to see how Rosalina could feed that many Lumas in the time it takes for the Warp Star to rocket off, especially since you have Rosalina activating the Starman as well.

A) Is this specifically stated to be referring to that enemy?
B) As I said earlier, bystander comments don't have much value unless they have that authority.
C) The light around the black hole (such as the actual face) isn't distorted.

A) Yes.
B) Doesn't matter their authority, seeing as what Daroach said was actually proven.
C) That makes it even closer to a Luma black hole, seeing as the light around one of those isn't distorted either.

Evading attacks doesn't mean much. You could dodge a bullet at normal speeds depending on the factors involved.

Well, that was the argument you were using as Wheel Kirby.

Or Sonic attacks in between uses.

Then Kirby heals.

Could you provide video of this please?

Yes, but not specifically power.

True, true.

I assume you mean bosses, which seem to be tougher than Little Mac.

I don't see them as tougher than Mac.

Then what was your point?

My point was that analyses were made of actual feats the character has shown, for accurate conclusions on one of the character's stats.

Similarly, DK and Punch-Out!! are two different games with different rules.

True, true.

What is your basis for this claim?

Just the fact that a few of Mac's punches are equal in damage to one of DK's, in the boss fight.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Hey guys, I found something on Pikmin Wiki.

Our salvage operations have yielded several unbelievably advanced artifacts. According to my analysis, this cutting device can slice through the fabric of time and space. My days of struggling to open food canisters are over!

A dimensional cutter that slices through space and time, this is nothing to be trifled with. Good children will know not to play with this item.
has a weapon that allows him to cut through space and time. Broken much? That rises him higher on my list.

 

[Crystanium]

Samus has a decided edge against Mario, but it's not inconceivably he could win. And yes, Mario going Metal and ground pounding the ship is how I Imagine he'd severely hurt.

What would definitely aid Mario against Samus is the super suit, but only when it comes to the the wave, ice, and plasma beams from the Metroid Prime trilogy. The dark, light, annihilator, and nova beam would likely be a different thing of its own and missiles and bombs would be quite effective against Mario.

You're underestimating it to say it's just punching, but regardless DK's punches dealing less damage than Mac's doesn't mean Mac is stronger, he was probably just intentionally weakened like Sonic characters have their speed nerfed in Mario vs Sonic Olympics.

I'd agree.

He is not given grand stars. Also, we shuld probably vote on which version of Bowser to use since his size vary between games. I propose his size from Super Mario 64 since that's close to his average size.

I think the one from Super Mario 64 would be reasonable.

Why not add the Dark and Light suit as well.

Because neither add any extra defense. Sure, the dark suit reduces the corrosive effects of Dark Aether's atmosphere by 80% while the light suit completely nullifies it, but as far as damage reduction goes, it makes no difference. Same with the PED suit and hazard shield, although the hazard shield is truly one of the only suit upgrade that has demonstrated immunity to every hazard in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. Samus is also immune to fuel gel. It's described as "caustic". The first thing I thought was acid, but it makes more sense to understand it as burning. Here's why.

• Bryyo is associated with fire. The race of the reptilicus would indicate that a cold-blooded race is living in warm climates.
• Scorchbugs feed on fuel gel and if shot with a beam, they will explode, "leaving behind only a scorch mark. It is from this trait that they have earned their name." Something can only be said to scorch if it's burning something with a flame or heat.
• While fuel gel is described as "caustic", it would make more sense to freeze something that's hot, not something that's acidic. Ice missiles aid Samus in crossing fuel gel prior to obtaining the hazard shield.
• While fuel gel is described as "caustic", it makes more sense for modern starships to use a fuel that's explosive, not acidic.
• If shot at, fuel gel will become a flame.
• Warp hounds "consume Fuel Gel to survive, and can expel blasts of converted thermal energy to attack and defend."

Now that's been said, how much heat can the hazard shield withstand? I cannot use the color of fuel gel to describe the temperature, since even solid forms of fuel gel are yellow. Still, the flame it produces is whitish yellow. From a warp hound who "consumes Fuel Gel to survive, and can expel blasts of converted thermal energy to attack and defend", this heat appears to be around in the range of 3,500 K (3,226.85°C).

 

[Munomario777]

That's the way it is in Kirby: Super Star Ultra, I believe.

So Kirby can use Crash an unlimited amount of times in Super Star, or...?

Donkey Kong seemed to be using pretty much all his strength, considering the fact that he was throwing winding punches.

Winding up doesn't contribute to the force of a punch.

He can change if he wants to.

It's 3-3 once more.

You can't change your vote after the president has been elected, and you can't change your vote after the vote has been concluded.

View attachment 48779
View attachment 48780
View attachment 48781

Surely enough, all four of these are taken after the same amount of time, and fit into the same second.

I don't see Kirby travelling that distance in 1/4 of a second. You didn't prove anything.

Those aren't very many characters you've mentioned there. Also, I fail to see how Mario or Luigi would travel at 18 MPH or faster, even with the things you've mentioned.

Some more that could likely catch Wheel Kirby:
Bowser Jr. (clown car)
Meta Knight (he flies rather quickly IIRC)
Peach (has similar jumping to Mario and Luigi)
Rosalina (Launch Star, and the same as Peach)
Mewtwo (teleportation)
Charizard (he can fly rather quickly if I'm not mistaken)
Greninja (he's rather quick too, isn't he?)
Pit (brawler gloves)
Palutena (super speed power, plus power of caging)
Et cetera.

If a normal human can run at speeds exceeding 18 MPH, it seems rather obvious that one with superhuman leg strength could at least run at those speeds.

No, that's just what the clone does in that one instance.

Then why are you saying that the clone did that because Kirby wanted him to?

I fail to see how Sonic would land an OHKO on Kirby. Even so, Kirby could simply use his Maxim Tomato.

I can't imagine Kirby surviving the Light Speed Attack (especially when Sonic can shred through metal at much lower speeds). Can Kirby use a Maxim Tomato once he's already dead?

There doesn't have to be a gap, seeing as Kirby can flatten.

How thin can Kirby make himself?

And the Helper goes behind Kirby.

And Kirby is a non-obstacle because he is only eight inches tall.

Again, it doesn't have to be wide, Kirby can squeeze through it.

See above.

That's the speed Jet Kirby would fly at.

And? All that matters is that the holes aren't facing Kirby.

The Invincibility Candy would constantly damage him, proving quite an effective maneuver. Also, Kirby would simultaneously use Quad Shock, which does tons of damage.

Can either of those damage invincible enemies?

Then he uses his black hole resistance to escape. Plus, I fail to see how Rosalina could feed that many Lumas in the time it takes for the Warp Star to rocket off, especially since you have Rosalina activating the Starman as well.

What black hole resistance?

Lumas can shoot their own Star Bits, so it would be rather quick.

A) Yes.
B) Doesn't matter their authority, seeing as what Daroach said was actually proven.
C) That makes it even closer to a Luma black hole, seeing as the light around one of those isn't distorted either.

B) When is it proven that those things are actual black holes?
C)

There seems to be some light distortion there.

Well, that was the argument you were using as Wheel Kirby.

I'm sorry?

Then Kirby heals.

Again, this is assuming that one of Sonic's many metal-shredding attacks won't OHKO Kirby. Even still, Sonic has two options. He can A) attack again before Kirby even gets the chance to heal or B) attack so many times that Kirby simply runs out of healing items.

That's not instantly attacking.

I don't see them as tougher than Mac.

On what grounds?

My point was that analyses were made of actual feats the character has shown, for accurate conclusions on one of the character's stats.

And how do you know that the conclusions are accurate? A faulty calculator will still give the wrong answer even if you put the correct numbers in.

Just the fact that a few of Mac's punches are equal in damage to one of DK's, in the boss fight.

Five or seven or so =/= "a couple".

@ Nerdicon

I'm fine either way as far as the amount of consumables go. Question, is this based on how many of one item a character could potentially have, or how many total they can have at a time? For example, let's say character Y's total inventory space is five slots. Does that character get five of each item, or five items total?

Hey guys, I found something on Pikmin Wiki.

Our salvage operations have yielded several unbelievably advanced artifacts. According to my analysis, this cutting device can slice through the fabric of time and space. My days of struggling to open food canisters are over!

A dimensional cutter that slices through space and time, this is nothing to be trifled with. Good children will know not to play with this item.
has a weapon that allows him to cut through space and time. Broken much? That rises him higher on my list.

It's clear that Pikmin takes place on Earth (aside from the generic remains, there are also real-world companies here). This seems to be a regular knife, which we know cannot cut through space and time. Add that to the fact that Olimar hasn't studied this much, and he doesn't use that ability in-game, it's safe to say that it's just a regular knife.

 

[Crystanium]

About Kirby's speed as a wheelie or riding on one just work with Kirby: Air Ride. The highest speed I saw was 33.06 m/h.

It's clear that Pikmin takes place on Earth (aside from the generic remains, there are also real-world companies here). This seems to be a regular knife, which we know cannot cut through space and time. Add that to the fact that Olimar hasn't studied this much, and he doesn't use that ability in-game, it's safe to say that it's just a regular knife.

Just because Pikmin takes place on a planet called "Earth" doesn't mean it's actually Earth. It's just "Earth-like". Look up "earth analog". It looks like Olimar studied it enough to discover that it can cut dimensions. Either way, being about the size of a pence isn't going to move Olimar anywhere.