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/ThreadKid Icarus
Are you seriously suggesting that we'll never get to play as a gay little furry fox boy in Smash?And please Sonic and Metal Gear won't ever get a second rep.
let's not please the furriesAre you seriously suggesting that we'll never get to play as a gay little furry fox boy in Smash?
This is how I've seen things for a while:I don't believe any of those series need a second rep. They're all either very small, focused predominantly on one character, or third party. The only exception to those would be F-Zero, and I don't believe an F-Zero newcomer really has anything to bring to the game outside of F-Zero representation itself, which is already more than adequately supplied by Captain Falcon.
It's certainly fine to dislike a character, but unless you understand that character's full merits, making general statements isn't a great way to express an opinion on said character. I do apologize if I overstepped a line, but I have a pet peeve about generalizations about characters when all the pawns aren't apparently in place. TLDR: People don't just want her cuz she's got more chest than Captain Falcon. At least I don't. Her character was my favorite thing in Uprising.Kid Icarus should get another rep, as it's gotten a lot of attention recently.just not Palutena who is one of the more "out there" character ideas I have seen, and who is far from being basically in just because she's a female character.
I love Palutena to pieces but I don't think she would be good as a fighter and I don't understand all her baseless support, only reasons I here to support her is beacuse shes female and from Kid Icarus, and another thing she is a goddess and more powerful than the other smash characters, and why is she thought to be a shoe in? She is not a shoe in!It's certainly fine to dislike a character, but unless you understand that character's full merits, making general statements isn't a great way to express an opinion on said character. I do apologize if I overstepped a line, but I have a pet peeve about generalizations about characters when all the pawns aren't apparently in place. TLDR: People don't just want her cuz she's got more chest than Captain Falcon. At least I don't. Her character was my favorite thing in Uprising.
This has probably been explained alot in the Palutena thread, and I'm sure you've come by there to understand, so I'm not sure what I can tell you that would change your mind, magnitude regardless.I love Palutena to pieces but I don't think she would be good as a fighter and I don't understand all her baseless support, only reasons I here to support her is beacuse shes female and from Kid Icarus, and another thing she is a goddess and more powerful than the other smash characters, and why is she thought to be a shoe in? She is not a shoe in!
Let's not discuss this here we are getting the thread off topicThis has probably been explained alot in the Palutena thread, and I'm sure you've come by there to understand, so I'm not sure what I can tell you that would change your mind, magnitude regardless.
But I'll list my reasons: Her character is awesome. My want to support her on that already makes it not baseless, and someone who "loves Palutena to death" probably wouldn't view her support as baseless. She has a myriad of moves in Uprising, which is more than several characters can claim. Sakurai is close to her character and series, and...hold on, wait a second. Have you not gone to the Palutena thread, where we have tons of discussions about movesets, how she could be very unique, etc. quite often, which is far more significant support than say, "female and from KI." Why not just add Phosphora if those are literally the only criteria?
Palutena's the secondary main character. I'm not sure why any other merits are needed, but they're there. Ignoring them when presented with them, at this point, is not seemingly an issue with the character itself. Also, canon power means nothing, or Ganondorf would snap Little Mac in half.
So...yeah. KI needs a second rep.
I wouldn't call myself Speculator if I didn't question whether or not a character is really a shoo-in just because that seems to be the prevailing notion at the time. I like Palutena as a character, but I won't look at her exclusively from the perspective of someone who wants her in. As it happens, I think a lot of this idea that she's a guaranteed newcomer stems from this presumption that Sakurai somehow favors his own series. First and foremost, that's what I dispute. I would be surprised, especially considering Sakurai's comments in his Kotaku interview, that he would be so overt as including a second character for a series with barely three games just because he happened to direct one of them. His alleged bias towards Kirby characters doesn't seem to hold up when we consider that Kirby didn't get any additional characters until the third SSB game, despite easily deserving at least one as early as Melee. The fact that it got two newcomers in Brawl was simply a matter of catching up.This is how I've seen things for a while:
While I understand that when you look at those series' merits, they're all small except maybe F-Zero.
You have to look at the characters.
Sakurai is adding characters, NOT series representatives.
And when looking at the characters, you've got Palutena.
And if you seriously doubt Palutena, then how can you call yourself Speculator?
So I understand why Kid Icarus doesn't need more character representation from an outside perspective, but when looking on the inside, you find a shoo-in character, Palutena.
That's how I chose my vote. Even though F-Zero is bigger, Black Shadow is not a better choice than Palutena IMO. Palutena is the more likely and wanted of the 2.
Sakurai being biased towards his own series is basically the last reason people find her so likely now.I wouldn't call myself Speculator if I didn't question whether or not a character is really a shoo-in just because that seems to be the prevailing notion at the time. I like Palutena as a character, but I won't look at her exclusively from the perspective of someone who wants her in. As it happens, I think a lot of this idea that she's a guaranteed newcomer stems from this presumption that Sakurai somehow favors his own series. First and foremost, that's what I dispute. I would be surprised, especially considering Sakurai's comments in his Kotaku interview, that he would be so overt as including a second character for a series with barely three games just because he happened to direct one of them. His alleged bias towards Kirby characters doesn't seem to hold up when we consider that Kirby didn't get any additional characters until the third SSB game, despite easily deserving at least one as early as Melee. The fact that it got two newcomers in Brawl was simply a matter of catching up.
This is also where proportional representation starts to come into play. Kirby is a series with over thirty games to its name. It's had a new game nearly every year since its inception. It's a very large and significant series - but not quite to the extent of the big mascot series like Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. That's why it sits one behind those franchises on the Brawl roster. This isn't an exact science, considering Star Fox has three reps despite being a small series with very little variety to bring to SSB (although a lot of this can be traced to Falco's inclusion as a clone in Melee), but for very small series with a singular protagonist like Kid Icarus it serves as a good indicator of where it should sit on the roster.
I only 'doubt' Palutena in the sense that I don't think she's an absolute guarantee, which seems to be the most common position. I think that roster proportion, series significance and what the character can bring to Smash are all important factors to consider. She holds up pretty well in those last two, so I'm happy to say that her chances are pretty good - but unlike a lot of people, I don't think I'd be totally astonished if she didn't make it. Whether or not I think a series needs another character is independent of whether or not I think it can actually get one. The Mario series certainly didn't need a newcomer, but Rosalina still made it because she has a lot to offer the game with her new mechanics and fighting style.
As a side note, these three factors are why I don't think F-Zero will be seeing another character. Looking only at roster proportion it does 'deserve' one - but as far as what the character can bring to SSB, I don't think characters that are mostly icons on a character select screen really hold up. F-Zero really just needs representation in SSB, which is achieved perfectly by including its mascot character.
(Sent from my tablet, so my typing might be a bit clunky. Android hates Smashboards!)