Which series should get a second rep?

[Regan145]

What do you think?

 

[KokiriKory]

Kid Icarus -> Palutena

F-zero gets my runner up vote. I've wanted Goroh since Melee was announced...

 

[Ember Reaper]

The obvious pick for most likely is Kid Icarus. Most deserving though is F-Zero.

 

[Starcutter]

HECK YEAH GIMME POLAR BEAR

 

[8-peacock-8]

Kid Icarus

/Thread

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

Pikmin deserves it. Kid Icarus will get it.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I'd like a new rep for WarioWare, F-Zero, Kid Icarus, Pikmin, and Sonic.

 

[Xzsmmc]

F-Zero without a doubt.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Yoshi. The rest can suffice easily with just the main protagonist (except possibly F-Zero.)

 

[dezeray112]

Kid Icarus definitely deserves a second rep in my opinion.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I'm gonna have to go with Kid Icarus, because Pale Tuna.

But F-Zero, Pikmin, and Sonic were in a close second, but Pale Tuna.

 

[Curious Villager]

Kid Icarus and Wario deserve a second character imo. And Ice Climbers too, give me my Topi's Sakurai!

 

[chronomantic]

Besides Kid Icarus none of them except maybe Wario. And please Sonic and Metal Gear won't ever get a second rep.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

And please Sonic and Metal Gear won't ever get a second rep.

Are you seriously suggesting that we'll never get to play as a gay little furry fox boy in Smash?

 

[chronomantic]

Are you seriously suggesting that we'll never get to play as a gay little furry fox boy in Smash?

let's not please the furries

 

[Spazzy_D]

Kid Icarus does when you actually sit down and consider the candidates.

 

[mini paincakes]

Kid Icarus will most likely get Palutena.

I doubt any of the others listed will get another character, but I voted for Wario because I wanted to see Ashley (assist trophy ) or Mona as character.

 

[Spinosaurus]

My head tells me F-Zero.

My heart tells me Wario.

 

[DarkLight]

Make it so you can start with one ice climber instead of two

 

[ErenJager]

Black Shadow.
Needs to be in dis.

 

[Nintendotard]

What I'd like: Yoshi...but he is only limited to three contenders, being the Baby Mario Bros., Kamek, and now Stork thanks to these forums

Who deserves it the most: F-Zero...Black Shadow could actually just take over all of Ganondorf's moveset, and maybe add a few more things, but thats if they revamp Ganondorf A LOT! They also have Jody, which would be nice as another female rep, but aside from that Goroh was probably the most deserving.

As for Wario, I'd love to see either Mona or Syrup. More femmes and a chance to get more unique characters! Theres plenty more contenders they could be too

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yoshi: Kamek
Sonic: Tails
Kid Icarus: Palutena

 

[Banjodorf]

Palutena's already in, so I consider this question's most obvious answer to be F-Zero.

One day you'll get the respect you deserve, Samurai Goroh...

Should've been in Melee...

 

[andimidna]

I came here to say Kid Icarus, and then saw what it was up against in the poll, and was sure I was going to vote for Kid Icarus... and I did.

F-Zero and Wario also deserve a 2nd character, but the chance of that are slim.
The chances of Palutena are, well, like you need me to tell you.

I considered Samurai Goroh and Ashley the front-runners of F-Zero and Wario... so I'm definitely not expecting anything now.
I guess we could get Black Shadow, Mona, Kat and Ana, or Captain Syrup, and I'd like some of those a lot... but I doubt it.

I think they're about as likely as getting 3 KI reps: Pit, Palutena, Medusa.... but I hope for this too.

 

[Igneous42]

Kid Icarus is an easy choice, and I haven't even played uprising (yet). It sounds like Palutena does a lot in that game and is really likable, plus with her staff and goddess powers seems like she could have a cool move-set. Second choice would be Pikmin, Alph using the new Pikmin could work. Thought it's a pretty big jump from Kid Icarus to Pikmin. Personally beyond that none of the other listed in the poll really warrant new characters IMO. Maybe F-Zero.

 

[Speculator]

I don't believe any of those series need a second rep. They're all either very small, focused predominantly on one character, or third party. The only exception to those would be F-Zero, and I don't believe an F-Zero newcomer really has anything to bring to the game outside of F-Zero representation itself, which is already more than adequately supplied by Captain Falcon.

 

[andimidna]

I don't believe any of those series need a second rep. They're all either very small, focused predominantly on one character, or third party. The only exception to those would be F-Zero, and I don't believe an F-Zero newcomer really has anything to bring to the game outside of F-Zero representation itself, which is already more than adequately supplied by Captain Falcon.

This is how I've seen things for a while:
While I understand that when you look at those series' merits, they're all small except maybe F-Zero.
You have to look at the characters.
Sakurai is adding characters, NOT series representatives.
And when looking at the characters, you've got Palutena.

And if you seriously doubt Palutena, then how can you call yourself Speculator?


So I understand why Kid Icarus doesn't need more character representation from an outside perspective, but when looking on the inside, you find a shoo-in character, Palutena.

That's how I chose my vote. Even though F-Zero is bigger, Black Shadow is not a better choice than Palutena IMO. Palutena is the more likely and wanted of the 2.

 

[IronFish]

Kid Icarus should get another rep, as it's gotten a lot of attention recently. just not Palutena who is one of the more "out there" character ideas I have seen, and who is far from being basically in just because she's a female character.

 

[Morbi]

I am not sure why the most prominent Smash franchise on the list doesn't deserve a second representative. F-Zero.

 

[majora_787]

Kid Icarus has been advertised with the original 8 in place of Yoshi. I'd go as far as to say they should have three characters, as should Metroid and Donkey Kong.

 

[Banjodorf]

Kid Icarus should get another rep, as it's gotten a lot of attention recently. just not Palutena who is one of the more "out there" character ideas I have seen, and who is far from being basically in just because she's a female character.

It's certainly fine to dislike a character, but unless you understand that character's full merits, making general statements isn't a great way to express an opinion on said character. I do apologize if I overstepped a line, but I have a pet peeve about generalizations about characters when all the pawns aren't apparently in place. TLDR: People don't just want her cuz she's got more chest than Captain Falcon. At least I don't. Her character was my favorite thing in Uprising.

@ Speculator The game is about characters, not # of reps. Granted, that seems contradictory in a thread about "who needs a second rep", but it's just a way of saying "these series only have one character. Are there any more that are worth anything?" (The technical answer is Palutena and Samurai Goroh. With some debatable other options in there. "LOUIE ROCKS THE HOUSE" (Rock Pikmin OP))

F-Zero certainly deserves another character in my not-very-humble opinion, because **** man, kids these days won't even know. Samurai Goroh...one day... Granted, anything you could do, Takamaru could probably do better, but...man...

 

[IronFish]

It's certainly fine to dislike a character, but unless you understand that character's full merits, making general statements isn't a great way to express an opinion on said character. I do apologize if I overstepped a line, but I have a pet peeve about generalizations about characters when all the pawns aren't apparently in place. TLDR: People don't just want her cuz she's got more chest than Captain Falcon. At least I don't. Her character was my favorite thing in Uprising.

I love Palutena to pieces but I don't think she would be good as a fighter and I don't understand all her baseless support, only reasons I here to support her is beacuse shes female and from Kid Icarus, and another thing she is a goddess and more powerful than the other smash characters, and why is she thought to be a shoe in? She is not a shoe in!

 

[Banjodorf]

I love Palutena to pieces but I don't think she would be good as a fighter and I don't understand all her baseless support, only reasons I here to support her is beacuse shes female and from Kid Icarus, and another thing she is a goddess and more powerful than the other smash characters, and why is she thought to be a shoe in? She is not a shoe in!

This has probably been explained alot in the Palutena thread, and I'm sure you've come by there to understand, so I'm not sure what I can tell you that would change your mind, magnitude regardless.

But I'll list my reasons: Her character is awesome. My want to support her on that already makes it not baseless, and someone who "loves Palutena to death" probably wouldn't view her support as baseless. She has a myriad of moves in Uprising, which is more than several characters can claim. Sakurai is close to her character and series, and...hold on, wait a second. Have you not gone to the Palutena thread, where we have tons of discussions about movesets, how she could be very unique, etc. quite often, which is far more significant support than say, "female and from KI." Why not just add Phosphora if those are literally the only criteria?

Palutena's the secondary main character. I'm not sure why any other merits are needed, but they're there. Ignoring them when presented with them, at this point, is not seemingly an issue with the character itself. Also, canon power means nothing, or Ganondorf would snap Little Mac in half.

So...yeah. KI needs a second rep.

 

[IronFish]

This has probably been explained alot in the Palutena thread, and I'm sure you've come by there to understand, so I'm not sure what I can tell you that would change your mind, magnitude regardless.

But I'll list my reasons: Her character is awesome. My want to support her on that already makes it not baseless, and someone who "loves Palutena to death" probably wouldn't view her support as baseless. She has a myriad of moves in Uprising, which is more than several characters can claim. Sakurai is close to her character and series, and...hold on, wait a second. Have you not gone to the Palutena thread, where we have tons of discussions about movesets, how she could be very unique, etc. quite often, which is far more significant support than say, "female and from KI." Why not just add Phosphora if those are literally the only criteria?

Palutena's the secondary main character. I'm not sure why any other merits are needed, but they're there. Ignoring them when presented with them, at this point, is not seemingly an issue with the character itself. Also, canon power means nothing, or Ganondorf would snap Little Mac in half.

So...yeah. KI needs a second rep.

Let's not discuss this here we are getting the thread off topic

 

[shrooby]

What, the "R.O.B." franchise isn't even worth putting in the poll? 0/10 would not participate.

 

[Speculator]

This is how I've seen things for a while:
While I understand that when you look at those series' merits, they're all small except maybe F-Zero.
You have to look at the characters.
Sakurai is adding characters, NOT series representatives.
And when looking at the characters, you've got Palutena.

And if you seriously doubt Palutena, then how can you call yourself Speculator?


So I understand why Kid Icarus doesn't need more character representation from an outside perspective, but when looking on the inside, you find a shoo-in character, Palutena.

That's how I chose my vote. Even though F-Zero is bigger, Black Shadow is not a better choice than Palutena IMO. Palutena is the more likely and wanted of the 2.

I wouldn't call myself Speculator if I didn't question whether or not a character is really a shoo-in just because that seems to be the prevailing notion at the time. I like Palutena as a character, but I won't look at her exclusively from the perspective of someone who wants her in. As it happens, I think a lot of this idea that she's a guaranteed newcomer stems from this presumption that Sakurai somehow favors his own series. First and foremost, that's what I dispute. I would be surprised, especially considering Sakurai's comments in his Kotaku interview, that he would be so overt as including a second character for a series with barely three games just because he happened to direct one of them. His alleged bias towards Kirby characters doesn't seem to hold up when we consider that Kirby didn't get any additional characters until the third SSB game, despite easily deserving at least one as early as Melee. The fact that it got two newcomers in Brawl was simply a matter of catching up.

This is also where proportional representation starts to come into play. Kirby is a series with over thirty games to its name. It's had a new game nearly every year since its inception. It's a very large and significant series - but not quite to the extent of the big mascot series like Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. That's why it sits one behind those franchises on the Brawl roster. This isn't an exact science, considering Star Fox has three reps despite being a small series with very little variety to bring to SSB (although a lot of this can be traced to Falco's inclusion as a clone in Melee), but for very small series with a singular protagonist like Kid Icarus it serves as a good indicator of where it should sit on the roster.

I only 'doubt' Palutena in the sense that I don't think she's an absolute guarantee, which seems to be the most common position. I think that roster proportion, series significance and what the character can bring to Smash are all important factors to consider. She holds up pretty well in those last two, so I'm happy to say that her chances are pretty good - but unlike a lot of people, I don't think I'd be totally astonished if she didn't make it. Whether or not I think a series needs another character is independent of whether or not I think it can actually get one. The Mario series certainly didn't need a newcomer, but Rosalina still made it because she has a lot to offer the game with her new mechanics and fighting style.

As a side note, these three factors are why I don't think F-Zero will be seeing another character. Looking only at roster proportion it does 'deserve' one - but as far as what the character can bring to SSB, I don't think characters that are mostly icons on a character select screen really hold up. F-Zero really just needs representation in SSB, which is achieved perfectly by including its mascot character.

(Sent from my tablet, so my typing might be a bit clunky. Android hates Smashboards!)

 

[Banjodorf]

Starfox and Mother have 2 or more characters. Donkey Kong is a more important series than Kirby with a good number of solid character options. Number of games is irrelevant clearly.

Sakurai? Unbiased? I'm sure he tried, because including Dedede in 64/Melee didn't take priority over anything else and he therefore didnt make it til Brawl.

But THEN we get to the small things. How SSE basically played like Kirby Superstar + Smash, the challenges being exactly like the ones from Air Ride (and now we have Smash Run, which was directly compared to City Trial by the man himself.)

All-star mode in Melee used Kirby lobby music. And now look, Uprising has at least 6 new items in the game, and depending on the number of items, that's less potential item representation for new series, or series that had item possibilities and never got them before.

Granted, Uprising has alot of items in it, but I would've expected two at most.

I know this is probably going to get dismissed as prattle, but Sakurai is nothing if not biased.

But Palutena has her own merits, and would probably be just as likely if someone other than he directed Uprising.

Either way, I look forward to being right.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'd personally argue that Wario should get one. Both Wario Land and Wario Ware have long enough histories and a decent number of games to warrant another one. Wario Ware has been used to launch new hardware for the last three generations too so, even if it doesn't have the greatest of sales, I'd argue that it is important enough to Nintendo as a franchise to deserve another rep. Of all the ones listed, I would say that's it. The chances for Palutena another Kid Icarus rep are so freakishly high at this point that there's really no point in arguing for or against it anymore; it's pretty much going to happen.

 

[Banjodorf]

Captain Syrup or Mona. I can dream I guess.

sakuraipls

 

[andimidna]

I wouldn't call myself Speculator if I didn't question whether or not a character is really a shoo-in just because that seems to be the prevailing notion at the time. I like Palutena as a character, but I won't look at her exclusively from the perspective of someone who wants her in. As it happens, I think a lot of this idea that she's a guaranteed newcomer stems from this presumption that Sakurai somehow favors his own series. First and foremost, that's what I dispute. I would be surprised, especially considering Sakurai's comments in his Kotaku interview, that he would be so overt as including a second character for a series with barely three games just because he happened to direct one of them. His alleged bias towards Kirby characters doesn't seem to hold up when we consider that Kirby didn't get any additional characters until the third SSB game, despite easily deserving at least one as early as Melee. The fact that it got two newcomers in Brawl was simply a matter of catching up.

This is also where proportional representation starts to come into play. Kirby is a series with over thirty games to its name. It's had a new game nearly every year since its inception. It's a very large and significant series - but not quite to the extent of the big mascot series like Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. That's why it sits one behind those franchises on the Brawl roster. This isn't an exact science, considering Star Fox has three reps despite being a small series with very little variety to bring to SSB (although a lot of this can be traced to Falco's inclusion as a clone in Melee), but for very small series with a singular protagonist like Kid Icarus it serves as a good indicator of where it should sit on the roster.

I only 'doubt' Palutena in the sense that I don't think she's an absolute guarantee, which seems to be the most common position. I think that roster proportion, series significance and what the character can bring to Smash are all important factors to consider. She holds up pretty well in those last two, so I'm happy to say that her chances are pretty good - but unlike a lot of people, I don't think I'd be totally astonished if she didn't make it. Whether or not I think a series needs another character is independent of whether or not I think it can actually get one. The Mario series certainly didn't need a newcomer, but Rosalina still made it because she has a lot to offer the game with her new mechanics and fighting style.

As a side note, these three factors are why I don't think F-Zero will be seeing another character. Looking only at roster proportion it does 'deserve' one - but as far as what the character can bring to SSB, I don't think characters that are mostly icons on a character select screen really hold up. F-Zero really just needs representation in SSB, which is achieved perfectly by including its mascot character.

(Sent from my tablet, so my typing might be a bit clunky. Android hates Smashboards!)

Sakurai being biased towards his own series is basically the last reason people find her so likely now.
The best way I can put what I've read her is-- your view point seems outdated.
Not only is she among the most requested characters, but there have been hints and leaks recently.
Before I continue, I'm going to go ask the Palutena thread what I've been meaning to post there for a while:
Which one piece of evidence that leads to Palutena being likely supports her chances better than the rest.
I want to see what people say.