hahahahaha i just wanted to share that upon reading that post I had a great visual imagining of somebody on the ledge like with great focus carefully clicking away from the ledge then just mashing z and back on the cstick furiously immediately after
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Where you AGT? The Official Toon Link General Discussion/ Video Thread!
- Thread starter Jolteon
- Start date
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
If you played TL or Link in Brawl (or Samus... or Lucas) that should be second nature for you.
It was so easy to get low percentage kills on Marf in Brawl if you baited him to the edge.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Well I, for one, have never really played brawl.. So yeah. :D
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
The timing is just more precise now, it still works.
You just have to sync grabbing the edge when they try to, tethers no longer hog the edge, but your invincibility will be refreshed every time you snap back to it.
PM has fewer ledge grab invincibility frames than Brawl so thats part of it.
In Brawl you had I think almost a full second.
OkamiBW
Smash Champion
I remember Calabrel saying it works really well with Lucas. That's why I figured it might work with TL as well. So you still have to time it for when they Up-B, I guess?
cannedbread
Smash Lord
i like doing that but after a few times i get forced to ledgehop or i sd, i think you can only tether regrab like 3 times in a row?
toon link forums you should seriously consider having a video thread separate from a general discussion separate from a social thread
lol
lol
OkamiBW
Smash Champion
Yeah, you can tether with any standard tether character only 3 times so far as I know.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
Yes, the limit is 3.
I actually learned the trick initially from Izaw's Link tutorial.
I still think vBrawl is ********, but his Link is fun to watch.
I actually learned the trick initially from Izaw's Link tutorial.
I still think vBrawl is ********, but his Link is fun to watch.
cannedbread
Smash Lord
it feels like a tight nit little family in here though
SinisterB
Smash Champion
I find that exclusive video threads die out very fast, and not much actual discussion needs to be posted in them. I think this thread is fine the way it is. I'll make a MU thread after the changelist is released.
-daze@Sinister's house
-daze@Sinister's house
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Created a Toon Link Social thread to avoid some unnecessary spam and clutter in here.
Play nice and don't light any fuses.
Play nice and don't light any fuses.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
I'm starting to get AGT MUCH, MUCH more consistently.
I manage to hit myself with the bombs while recovering 80-90% of the time, and even implement AGT on stage. You can get the bombs WAY up there if you implement the technique, and you're free to do anything out of it. I'm also starting to gain more of an appreciation for his speed, to the point where when I switch to Link he feels way too slow.
Toon really is a beast when he manages to get his spacing and stage control. Unfortunately, certain characters f*** him up hard when he doesn't.
I manage to hit myself with the bombs while recovering 80-90% of the time, and even implement AGT on stage. You can get the bombs WAY up there if you implement the technique, and you're free to do anything out of it. I'm also starting to gain more of an appreciation for his speed, to the point where when I switch to Link he feels way too slow.
Toon really is a beast when he manages to get his spacing and stage control. Unfortunately, certain characters f*** him up hard when he doesn't.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Really, really glad to hear that, brownlink. :D
You made me proud.
You made me proud.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I myself have implemented a lot of AGT in my gameplay. Off stage and on stage, it's just way too good.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
It really is. It's basically an essential skill in order to play TL well, IMO lol
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0osuNxURlzE
O...M...G, WHAT A SET!!
To keep things relevant, using that as an example, how does Toon beat Jiggs in ways that YL can't?
O...M...G, WHAT A SET!!
To keep things relevant, using that as an example, how does Toon beat Jiggs in ways that YL can't?
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Yes. Toon Link now has WAY more kill options out of his projectiles, and because TL's grab has waaay less endlag then YL's, it's very easy to grab jiggs and combo it into a kill. (Yes, TL's grab game is very good- it's just landing the grabs in the first place require a bit of thinking). To name a few of these kill options of our projectiles- Dair, upb, fair, nair, uair.
TL absolutely can wreck puff in Project M. With the new technology TL was given in AGT, and the multiple kill options TL has now, it's very easy to say that TL has that MU pretty solidly. Jigglypuff can no longer loom above TL's nair range, as TL now has a very powerful upb. Puff can no longer poke YL in his shield since TL's shield grab is much easier to land in PM, and the consequences aren't nearly as bad.
Anyways, this is the social thread, so I'll just say that we **** on puffs, and Armada *****. :D Ness beats TL in PM though, so HBOX can just cp any TL's with ness in this game haha
Also, I dont care if you guys "stray" off topic here. This is a social thread so you don't have to keep the discussion focused solely on TL. It's appreciated though, lol.
TL absolutely can wreck puff in Project M. With the new technology TL was given in AGT, and the multiple kill options TL has now, it's very easy to say that TL has that MU pretty solidly. Jigglypuff can no longer loom above TL's nair range, as TL now has a very powerful upb. Puff can no longer poke YL in his shield since TL's shield grab is much easier to land in PM, and the consequences aren't nearly as bad.
Anyways, this is the social thread, so I'll just say that we **** on puffs, and Armada *****. :D Ness beats TL in PM though, so HBOX can just cp any TL's with ness in this game haha
Also, I dont care if you guys "stray" off topic here. This is a social thread so you don't have to keep the discussion focused solely on TL. It's appreciated though, lol.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
eh... huh, Ness beats TL in PM?
I wouldn't have thought so, how is Ness really different in PM than he is in Melee other than sped up PK Flash? The MU itself in Melee I think is only slight YL. They both have serious issues killing one another.
(I've barely tried Ness at all, fighting him feels the same.)
I wouldn't have thought so, how is Ness really different in PM than he is in Melee other than sped up PK Flash? The MU itself in Melee I think is only slight YL. They both have serious issues killing one another.
(I've barely tried Ness at all, fighting him feels the same.)
D
Deleted member
Guest
People say PM ness is bad, but imo hes really solid.
The_NZA
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,979
As a Ness player, I'll say the following. TL seems to fall at just the right speed for Ness to combo him like crazy. He's way better than melee, mostly because his recovery game is way improved. In addition to that, his dair and nair were buffed and his controllable DJC means you have some trickier options. His PKfire was hugely buffed giving ness a way to control space in a way he culdn't before. So, I'd say he's loads better than he used to be.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
I have little to no experience in the MU, but just based on intuition, I feel like TL could still outspace Ness, and TL can also combo Ness well and kill him quickly.
Exactly what are all of Ness' recovery options now?
Exactly what are all of Ness' recovery options now?
`dazrin
Smash Champion
I play the MU everyday.
TL is just the perfect weight/fall speed to get combo'd to death after a dthrow, can get through TL's projectiles with his new aerial mobility and magnet stuff, and can very easily position himself for an edgeguard regardless of AGT shenanigans due to his new "aerialwavedash" or magnetdash lol. But yeah, it's a pretty difficult match up if you don't know how to play against it.
How you basically win at the MU as TL is to platform-camp ness and bait him into missing a grab or making a mistake in which case you punish with dthrow-> upb. Until then, just keep platform camping and throwing projectiles/ nairs until he's high enough % to die from dthrow -> upb.
NEVER nair Ness' shield. It's a free grab for him and will cost you 50%+ and at high%s, will get you possibly killed by bthrow. Also, don't ever challenge Ness' fair. That move is so disjointed and it will cut right through anything and lead into a grab. You would think that TL should be able to outspace ness, but Ness has a lot more movement options now in 2.5, so it's difficult to discern where he'll be.
It's definitely winnable, but you really need the MU experience to do it. Just land your grabs before he does.
TL is just the perfect weight/fall speed to get combo'd to death after a dthrow, can get through TL's projectiles with his new aerial mobility and magnet stuff, and can very easily position himself for an edgeguard regardless of AGT shenanigans due to his new "aerialwavedash" or magnetdash lol. But yeah, it's a pretty difficult match up if you don't know how to play against it.
How you basically win at the MU as TL is to platform-camp ness and bait him into missing a grab or making a mistake in which case you punish with dthrow-> upb. Until then, just keep platform camping and throwing projectiles/ nairs until he's high enough % to die from dthrow -> upb.
NEVER nair Ness' shield. It's a free grab for him and will cost you 50%+ and at high%s, will get you possibly killed by bthrow. Also, don't ever challenge Ness' fair. That move is so disjointed and it will cut right through anything and lead into a grab. You would think that TL should be able to outspace ness, but Ness has a lot more movement options now in 2.5, so it's difficult to discern where he'll be.
It's definitely winnable, but you really need the MU experience to do it. Just land your grabs before he does.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
meh... there are no nesses that I'm aware of in my region, unless I traveled OOS (which I never have) I don't see myself ever encountering the MU.
I'm trying to force myself to get better against spacies and Marth, cuz whenever I finally do get PM opponents, I WILL have to deal with them.
Any advice on how best to deal with aforementioned characters? I have a decent handle on the Marth MU since he's a floaty, and the few ppl in my Melee community that have tried PM play Marth since they think the spacies don't feel right. TL ***** Marth if he can avoid getting faired to death or grabbed (which I guess is the essence of the MU haha).
I'm trying to force myself to get better against spacies and Marth, cuz whenever I finally do get PM opponents, I WILL have to deal with them.
Any advice on how best to deal with aforementioned characters? I have a decent handle on the Marth MU since he's a floaty, and the few ppl in my Melee community that have tried PM play Marth since they think the spacies don't feel right. TL ***** Marth if he can avoid getting faired to death or grabbed (which I guess is the essence of the MU haha).
`dazrin
Smash Champion
There aren't very many competent Ness players in general, BrownLink- so no need to worry about that MU xD
Marth is pretty easy if you know what he does. He'll mainly be DDing looking for grab openings and outspacing your nair with his range. Just create openings by throwing projectiles to approach and combo him hard with nair -> moves. I've been growing fond of nair-> jabs and nair ->dtilt for combo options. It's pretty easy to combo marth once you get in. Also, try to space yourself accordingly to get grabs. Getting a dthrow on marth should lead to a load of % or a death.
As for spacies, that MU is reaallly hard for TL :/
I've been playing against space animal players since demo2's release and I can't seem to make it work. However, if the spacie doesn't know how to sweetspot their recovery, you can just dash attack the edge and they'll die. Use a lot of spaced back-air's in that MU, and land as many grabs as possible. Use UP-B out of shield and nair out of shield if you get trapped, and learn how low you can go when using run off -> nair and run off -> upb when edgeguarding. Stay high against Falco to avoid lasers- they'll destroy you. Throw a lot of projectiles against Fox.
But yeah. Spacies are hard @_@
Marth is pretty easy if you know what he does. He'll mainly be DDing looking for grab openings and outspacing your nair with his range. Just create openings by throwing projectiles to approach and combo him hard with nair -> moves. I've been growing fond of nair-> jabs and nair ->dtilt for combo options. It's pretty easy to combo marth once you get in. Also, try to space yourself accordingly to get grabs. Getting a dthrow on marth should lead to a load of % or a death.
As for spacies, that MU is reaallly hard for TL :/
I've been playing against space animal players since demo2's release and I can't seem to make it work. However, if the spacie doesn't know how to sweetspot their recovery, you can just dash attack the edge and they'll die. Use a lot of spaced back-air's in that MU, and land as many grabs as possible. Use UP-B out of shield and nair out of shield if you get trapped, and learn how low you can go when using run off -> nair and run off -> upb when edgeguarding. Stay high against Falco to avoid lasers- they'll destroy you. Throw a lot of projectiles against Fox.
But yeah. Spacies are hard @_@
virtuososteve
Smash Apprentice
Ive played a very good ness player k9 and It is very hard. With his pikafire thing that traps you and opens ness up to many damaging combos. Beating a good ness is doable though as Okami beat him with TL a few tourneys ago.
Spacies are hard though as well they dish out damage really quickly with their damn shine combos.
And Daze i have used that edge guard against falcos and fox with the dash attack and it works very well so thank you for that.
Spacies are hard though as well they dish out damage really quickly with their damn shine combos.
And Daze i have used that edge guard against falcos and fox with the dash attack and it works very well so thank you for that.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Yeah steve lol. It's one of the main things that make Spacies a winnable MU- but good players will usually almost ALWAYS sweetspot, so.. yeah. Beating bad spacies isn't a problem. It's the good ones that really do us in lol
MysteryRevengerson
IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Holy ****, I didn't know about AGT at all...
This will aid me in my recovery greatly. I thought Air Dodge tether was godlike...
This will aid me in my recovery greatly. I thought Air Dodge tether was godlike...
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
I may end up just going Link, Marth or Ike to deal with spacies.
Ike seems good against Fox at least, Marth is Marth, and Link has better range, is generally better at edge guarding spacies and has more kill power.
Ike seems good against Fox at least, Marth is Marth, and Link has better range, is generally better at edge guarding spacies and has more kill power.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I have a marth, luigi, and falco if I don't play TL. I should handle most matchups.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
been trying to develop a Pit/Sonic for my spacie troubles haha
Arrow/HomingAtk a Firefox/Firebird and the deed is done lol
Arrow/HomingAtk a Firefox/Firebird and the deed is done lol
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
eh... from what I can tell anyways, Falcon is unchanged from Melee, and both spacies were a tough MU for him. I don't think that will have changed.
Link is honestly seeming like an overall better character. Yeah, he's slower, but he has a lot of the same tricks Toon does, and he's just generally better at finishing his opponent, which can be a real issue for Toon.
If he gets back his 2.1 boomerang in the next demo, I'll be really torn as to whether I wanna make Link or Toon my main.
btw, now that I've got AGT bomb jump perfect with Toon, I'm actually having more difficulty getting it with Link, do you have to up-B later with him? I always up-B immediately with Toon and hit the bomb, but when I do that with Link, I always miss it. In general though I've definitely mapped AGT into my muscle memory, I don't even need to think about the combination.
Looks like Okami didn't do so great at Apex, haha. Wish Mango and Armada entered.
Link is honestly seeming like an overall better character. Yeah, he's slower, but he has a lot of the same tricks Toon does, and he's just generally better at finishing his opponent, which can be a real issue for Toon.
If he gets back his 2.1 boomerang in the next demo, I'll be really torn as to whether I wanna make Link or Toon my main.
btw, now that I've got AGT bomb jump perfect with Toon, I'm actually having more difficulty getting it with Link, do you have to up-B later with him? I always up-B immediately with Toon and hit the bomb, but when I do that with Link, I always miss it. In general though I've definitely mapped AGT into my muscle memory, I don't even need to think about the combination.
Looks like Okami didn't do so great at Apex, haha. Wish Mango and Armada entered.
OkamiBW
Smash Champion
I lost to Reflex who got 1st and leffen who got 4th. Also sucked in Melee getting 5th seed. I kind of got unprepared for APEX by not playing for 3 weeks straight due to family issues + snowboarding.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
No worries, Okami. You had some pretty damn hard people to play against in PM and a death pool in Melee x_X
For what it's worth, Toph and Mizuki didn't make it out of pools either, so don't worry about it. I wouldn't have even gotten close to making it out of Melee pools lol.
Hope to see you at Gen3
You'll **** the competition there! :D
For what it's worth, Toph and Mizuki didn't make it out of pools either, so don't worry about it. I wouldn't have even gotten close to making it out of Melee pools lol.
Hope to see you at Gen3
You'll **** the competition there! :D
virtuososteve
Smash Apprentice
Hopefully all of us will! Maybe we'll have PM in 2014 and TL will be pwning