WaveDashing In SSBB

[PaperBoyDave]

When i first found out about wding, i took it as a challenge to master this technique and incorporate it into my game any possible way. If someone really liked the game, they would probably embrace this and strive to master it, in a way advancing their game. Wding doesn't give you the clear cut advantage, but if you combine it with strategies, and mindgames, it can become very useful. For the people who don't like it, i doubt they have any dedication to the game. If they really loved the game, they would see wding as a way to improve their game; therefore they would practice it.

 

[Anther]

I totally agrees with Paranoid_Android and would've argued against Inferno's post in the exact same way XD.

The trouble is many casual gamers don't have time to learn, they don't want to have to go on and practice these moves before going online.

Many casual gamers do have time to learn, they just choose to play a different game D=.

 

[Skuv]

In SSBB I think they should leave it in, but make it so you can turn it off and on, that way if somebody thinks it is cheap they can turn it off when they start a game of smash online, and people that use wavedashing just won't go in there. Simple as that.

 

[commonyoshi]

In SSBB I think they should leave it in, but make it so you can turn it off and on, that way if somebody thinks it is cheap they can turn it off when they start a game of smash online, and people that use wavedashing just won't go in there. Simple as that.

Sorry. But if someone refuses to let me WD, I just wont play them. I dont do it very much, but actually abnning me from using it would tick me off.

 

[Skuv]

Sorry. But if someone refuses to let me WD, I just wont play them. I dont do it very much, but actually banning me from using it would tick me off.

I don't mean banning it I just mean that if a person with wavedash off start a game of smash then people with wavedash on won't be able to see that game in the menu, and vice-versa...

 

[UNKN{OWN}iXi]

And SSBM is not extremely fun and competitive because of wavedashing? I don't see your point.

WDing should not be in SSBB because it sucks? Great argument.

No.

I was saying that the people earlier who were claiming that due to wavedashing, SSBM is competitive and very fun...this is definitely not true because SSB has NONE of it what-so-ever, but yet it's still GREAT...

I was posting in the original wave dashing thread, but it got deleted, so I decided to try to avoid the flamers like you...

 

[BrTarolg]

an option to turn wavedashing on and off would definately be... interesting to say the least.

frankly the only thing im worried about is if EVERYONE starts using it

provided WD stays in the game, but casual players dont know about it - then that will be fine.

but what you DONT want to see if EVERYONE being "forced" to learn it just to compete in the game.

currently WD is at a fine balance. if you know the advanced techs, and the other guy doesnt, you definately have the advantage.
however, it still doesnt mean he cant beat you - a good marth player who never WD can do just fine without it because his entire gameplay doesnt revolve around it, and mindgames are less effective on marth compared to other characters because things like his fsmash have very little come out time.

---

wavedashing will be FINE if it is kept in <and it will definately make alot of people happier> - PROVIDED that it is kept low profile - something only tourney players and the like will know.

 

[nomis]

I was posting in the original wave dashing thread, but it got deleted, so I decided to try to avoid the flamers like you...

First of all, posting:

I want to know something.

Which of you, who believe that wave dashing is the GOD of EVERYTHING, actually play SSB online, which has absolutely NO wave dashing? If you have played SSB online you can see how it can be extremely fun and competitive...

PS - wave dashing =\= SSBB (because it sucks)

isn't really helping you avoid 'flamers like me.'

And I'm deeply offended.

I try to keep my arguments as intellectual as possible, and you think because I used a sarcastic tone I'm trying to bash you? That, young sir, is preposterous! Allow me to speak in an even more formal tone then:

ur argument sux0rz as muhc as you claim wding to be LMAO!

Wait, that wasn't very formal.

Oh well.

 

[Sensai]

ur argument sux0rz as muhc as you claim wding to be LMAO!

Wait, that wasn't very formal.

Oh well.

Ha.

Especially the fact that the characters that are ALREADY fast(I.E. Sheik, Falco, Fox, Falcon, etc) can wave dash the best. People like Link, Bowser, Donkey Kong, etc, who really need the so called ability of wave dashing completely suck at it.

That's actually not right at all. Look at Luigi, Samus, and Doc, and then look at Falcon's WD. NO ONE WD's with Falcon, unless it's very seldomly, for a mindgame.

 

[GreenKirby]

I don't have a problem Wavedashing itself. I'm more irritated by the situation of people who takes sides on the issue. Mainly the pro Wavedashing side. Yes that side.

Now most people (not all) here wavedash. It IS a glitch but that's not the point. The point is that the Pro Wavedash side (will summerize to Pro-WD in post) has wound with the stereotype that's not good. The stereotypes are that they can't win without wavedashing; thinks the game will be TOO slow without wave dashing; and anybody who doesn't or dislike wavedashing they will look down at them as noobs.

Now take a look at the last. I notice that good amount of Pro-WD said things like this:
"If a person doesn't want to wavedash in, he sucks in the game."
"You're stupid if you don't like wavedashing."
"Wavedashing in an nesscary part of tournament play."
"Removing wavedashing is an excuse for people who suck."

Now I honestly fail to see how the tournies of SSBB will decrease in numbers because of lack the wavedashing (if it's removed). If anything, tournies will decrease because of online play. And just because someone can't wavedash doesn't mean that he or she sucks. Heck I've seen people who can wavedash yet their still not good. And Pro-WD three things I will say:

1) You can still own without wavedashing if it was removed.
2) Don't look down on people who don't use it.
3) Super Smash Bros Brawl is not going to be Super Smash Bros: Melee Again. If wavedashing removed, then so be it. It's a new game and a sequeal. And like all sequeals, you're just going have to relearn.

 

[MewMewKachooTwo]

Hey everyone. I started WDing seriously yesterday. I knew how to do it, but never tried using it practically. I did find it useful, and also a boost to my own morale. I beat the heck out of a guy who evenly matched me (though he did complain of a bad controller, it was evident when sometimes he'd jump, change directions, and attack away from me. That was only two or three times, though.)

Then a player arrived that hasn't gotten to play a whole lot recently(he was in trouble), and he was a player I've wanted to beat for so long! He plays Link, and pretty much always wins. If he does lose, it's usually because he messed himself up, or just bad luck(getting pummeled by arwings on Corneria).

Anyway, it sucked because there were 3 controllers, and I'd never get a 1 on 1 against him. There'd always be some newb who only uses Samus. They'd run away if either me or Link got close to him, and repeatedly use projectiles if me and Link fought. I ended up going after him, KOing him, but weakened slightly and killed from oppurtunist attacks from the Link. I tried a couple more times, similar things happened. I got so frustrated...I ended up suiciding into the Great Fox's spray and leaving.

All I wanted to do was see if I could beat this one guy...*sigh* Probably won't see that guy again for a while. He's the best on center, but he's in trouble. I can't remember why, but they make him stay in his dorm usually. That makes me so mad...makes me want to just go there everyday and beat the crap out of the regular people (Um, in smash, of course...)

I can't wait til this goes online, then I can find good players to gauge my own skills anytime, and not worry about some newb opportunist/sniper/etc. in a 1v1v1...(ps, they only had 3 controllers.)

Edit: Wow, way too serious for me. Oh well, those are just my onions currently.

 

[Shaolin-Ninja]

Umm... I may be wrong, and this may be off-topic, but I'll ask anyway: Wasn't you the guy who mae this thread complaining about WD being a glitch, and what was wrong about walking and such?

 

[MewMewKachooTwo]

Umm... I may be wrong, and this may be off-topic, but I'll ask anyway: Wasn't you the guy who mae this thread complaining about WD being a glitch, and what was wrong about walking and such?

Yes. That's me.

I use it now, it's useful, but I still wouldn't mind seeing it leave.

 

[Shaolin-Ninja]

I use it, too. Only to edgehog, though, so if air combats are getting better, I don't think I'll need it, eighter

 

[G-Sword]

people r saying that some characters will go down on tier list with WDing is taken out, come on now none of us know what the hell the characters are going to be like. nintendo is not going to make the characters the same way twice. the speed, strength and other skills of the fighters will all be changed a little. just had to make a point since people are assuming that the characters are going to stay the same on the tier list.

i've seen some people say that WDing is not a neccessary in melee and is only a small tool to your fighting. GET THE F**# OUT OF HERE. WDing is the biggest advantage in melee. if WDing is a tool than it must b a jack hammer or a chain saw. WDing is neccessary if u even want to stand a chance against anyone that can WD well in a tournament. u well not stand a chance against anyone if u dont know how to WD in a tournament.

now i never really did master WDing, and i think it is unfair in melee for many of the characters, since usually Fox, shiek or falco are the ones to win in real competitve tournaments. lets face it speed in melee is what counts not anything else. thats y fox, shiek and falco (even though falco is not a fast runner he has fast attacks) most of the time winning. characters like bowser, link, and many others dont even stand a chance in the game.

but i really dont care if WDing is in the game or not. if it is they need to do major adjustments to make the characters somewhat equal and have characters like bowser have a fair chance of winning against fox. and add other tactics to the game so people dont have to worry or rely on WDing as much. someone said that since ssb will b online that nintendo wants the game to b fun for everyone and it will alienate the casual gamer. well thats what happens when people r good at a certain game and know certain combos and moves, thats what seperates the best from the rest. i would b pissed off if a first time player would just beat me and i have been playing the game for years. if the person is a casual gamer than he should have no problem getting his a** whooped, bcuz he knows he doesnt play the game that often. here is a simple real that everyone should know by now if u play online u know it is going to b competitive, so if u r a casual gamer and dont like losing, stay out.

if WDing is taken out, the game will still b competitve and fun. y'll make it like that nintendo is just going to keep the same format for the game and just add new fighters. there will b new things added to game and people will need to make the adjustments just like u did from ssb to melee. removing WD will not take away anything from the game and people with skills can still whip noobs wit other tactics and combos.

either way i will make the adjustments i need for the next smash

 

[Twin Dreams]

First of all, I would like to say that it is impossible to infinite shine any character DIing away from Fox.


For Fox to infinite, he can shine an drill shine enemies against walls.





The wave dash:

Wave dashing was discovered in beta testing by programmers. It was named the Super Dash. It was found and left in the game, not knowing it's applications.

Now, how is it a glitch? It's clearly just a side effect of the program vectors. Notice how if you are falling at an angle, you slide a little when you hit the ground.

I'm going to guess that once you touch the ground, a restoring force of friction reduces your horizontal speed to 0. Air Dodges are so fast, that characters can travel along the ground adequate distances. This is also reflected by the fact that if you are fast falling from a height and wave land, you go further.


That's probably how the programming works. So, now that we all know why there is wave dashing, we all know that it really isn't a glitch. The program is running exactly how it is supposed to be running. It isn't a glitch because the programmers over looked something they thought was a useless abuse of the programming.


Saying wave dashing is cheap is like saying Up smashing is cheap. It was programmed ino the game.




The effects that it has on the game vary.

Pros-

1. Spacing - A wave dash allows for quick set ups and combos.

2. Movement - A player can move and do anything they could do while standing

3. Mind Games - A combination of the first two.

That's it. You are complaining because people who wave dash can move around more.

Cons -

1. Air dodging - A player can air dodge off the edge or triangle jump. Messing with timing and being left vulnerable.

2. Complex button movement - You could just press the wrong button. Press it at the wrong time. In fact, I'll venture to say that this happens very often. The inexperienced players don't notice because they don't play people who wave dash.

3. Complex thought - When first learning to wave dash, people often concentrate on wave dashing. This creates less concentration on the fight and more on pushing buttons. (This is less apparent in experienced players)





See how it all evens out to not being cheap? Sure, the person is wave dashing. They also have practiced timing and integrated wave dashing into game play so that they will it.


Also, L-cancelling cannot be a glitch. Because it was purposely programmed into the games. Saying it is a glitch is saying that Up smashing is a glitch.




Now, what does the impact of a wave dash have on the game?

Let's look at some alternatives.

1. Fox Trotting - Most fox trots are faster than wave dashes. It isn't a complex button combination. If you crouch cancel your animation, you can smash out of it. You can jump out of it into any aerial. You can jump cancel into a grab. You can dash attack cancel into a boost grab. You can dash dance into or out of it. You can use any special. You can dodge out of it. You can crouch cancel into a shield.

In fact, look at a pros match. Look at Ken. I don't ever recall a video where I had to count his wave dashes on more than one hand. He prefers initial dashing in my opinion.




So, what do we know now?

We know...

1. What Wave Dashing is...
2. It's pros and cons...
3. Alternatives...



Now, I remember seeing somewhere that if would be fair if they introduced a counter for wave dashing. I'm sorry, but there already is one.


Smashing.

That's correct, a well placed smash destroys wave dashing. They slide right into it. Now, you have to be a good player to mind game them into wave dashing into a smash like anything else in the game, but it does have a counter.


Wave dashing < Smashing < Aerials < Shield Grabbing < Wave Dashing

That's a REALLY BASIC out lay of counters.



Let's sum things up now..


Pros-

1. movement
2. spacing
3. mind games
4. counters shield grabbing

cons-

1.Air dodging
2.complex button
3.complex thought
4.countered by smashes
5.better options
6. Murphy's law (in coordinance with the fact that the more complex something is, the more you can mess it up.)



So, how is wave dashing cheap? Why should it be taken out? It's more of a burden in most cases. Most people Wave Dash too much and it hurts them.

Anyone can wave dash with any character.

It deepens the game.

It doesn't automatically win you a match.

It doesn't automatically make the other person lose.




Why shouldn't it be in brawl? Because you had a bad experience with it in melee? Because you aren't good at something, no one should do it?

 

[fluffy]

what Twin Dreams said.

 

[Shepp]

Im sorry if this has already been said but i dont feel like looking through this whole thread on my 56k connection.
I noticed in the first couple of pagest that some people think L-cancelling is a glitch.
L-cancelling is not a glitch. it was in SSB, it was known as Z-cancelling which completely removed all lag from ariels. in SSBM it only reduces lag.

 

[nomis]

Now take a look at the last. I notice that good amount of Pro-WD said things like this:
"If a person doesn't want to wavedash in, he sucks in the game."
"You're stupid if you don't like wavedashing."
"Wavedashing in an nesscary part of tournament play."
"Removing wavedashing is an excuse for people who suck."

Ouch. Sorry if I insulted anyone by saying those things. Wait, I never ridiculed anyone strictly because they're against WDing! Guess I'm one of the many exceptions from your generalization of people who are pro-WD. Yay.

Now I honestly fail to see how the tournies of SSBB will decrease in numbers because of lack the wavedashing (if it's removed).

Me too! I don't even remember anyone saying that the removal of WDing would decrease tourney numbers.

And Pro-WD three things I will say:

1) You can still own without wavedashing if it was removed.
2) Don't look down on people who don't use it.
3) Super Smash Bros Brawl is not going to be Super Smash Bros: Melee Again. If wavedashing removed, then so be it. It's a new game and a sequeal. And like all sequeals, you're just going have to relearn.

1) How about, you can still own without using WD, but still have it in the game for depth? I think that's a good proposition...
2) For those who do, shame on you. Act more mature about this subject.
3) (Personality: Grammar Nazi; commencing in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...)Sequel, yes. Relearn, sure. If WDing is still in, yay! If not, oh well!

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Bravo GreenKirby. And Bravo Nomis. Very Nice.

I had a long post back on page 2 or 3. I don't feel like restating. HOWEVER, if SamuraiP is correct in translating, I won't need to repost, since Sakurai wants to make SSBB EASIER, then we will probably see WD'ing waving bye to us. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[JFox]

I really do feel that you must not be very dedicated to the game if you don't WD. I mean think about it- its one of the easiest tech skills to learn, once you learn it any character you play gets stronger, and it adds to your mindgames, speed, and spacing abilities. So what reason does someone honestly have except that its a so called "glitch". I am convinced that if anyone really took the time to learn WD'ing and got good enough at it, they would use it, cuz there is no reason not to.

What are you really trying to prove by not using it? That you play the way the game is "supposed" to be played? Cmon, please- Half of the meta games was not intentional. The greatest part is that people learn to get around it, or pick it up and use it themselves. And if you don't you are just putting yourself at a disadvantage.

 

[shminkledorf]

Wave dashing was discovered in beta testing by programmers. It was named the Super Dash. It was found and left in the game, not knowing it's applications.

Ok, this has been bugging me. It was not named the "super dash" of the "super waveland". Unless it was named differently from as it is in AR, it was called "Land Fall Special".

And I will remind you that while yes, WDing is important, remember Ken? He didn't wavedash initially, and he took 3rd at one of the TGs I believe (someone please correct me on that, I'm not sure). Obviously the whole "He's Ken, he's 00bar!" argument comes up, but it proves that while yes, wavedashing opens up a whole new game, it doesn't mean you can't play.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

I can't see WDing being a problem online, either, unless it's kept some sort of secret (something a competitive smasher likely wouldn't do). Only thing is, what if we can't talk? You couldn't exactly ask someone you fight who uses it how to do it.

 

[UNKN{OWN}iXi]

First of all, posting: isn't really helping you avoid 'flamers like me.'

And I'm deeply offended.

I try to keep my arguments as intellectual as possible, and you think because I used a sarcastic tone I'm trying to bash you? That, young sir, is preposterous! Allow me to speak in an even more formal tone then:

ur argument sux0rz as muhc as you claim wding to be LMAO!

Wait, that wasn't very formal.

Oh well.

Young sir?

You make such a claim like that without even knowing me. That just proves how dumb you are...

Also, you say you're intellectual and act more adult than others...one thing that contradicts you is your sig...you're so dumb, dumb sir.

 

[the_suicide_fox]

While I don't have an argument for or against WD'ing being in the next game, I am fairly positive it WILL be in the next game, just modified slightly. If you look at past Nintendo games, you would see that they tend to turn glitches from previous games into new techniques in later games. For instance, there was wall jumping in Super Mario 3 (and even Super Mario 1 I believe) and then when Super Mario 64 came out, they decided to add it as a technique. So it evolved from a glitch to a technique that they put in the game on purpose.

And while WD does make some characters overpowered who are already good, they can modifiy other aspects of the characters to balance them more than to just remove WDing. My thought is they will include it in the next game as a real technique, but will adjust the properties of it. Perhaps making it seem like an Air to ground evasive attack with a little lag and probably its own animation. They would also make rolling better to avoid making it obsolete. Like rolls are faster (than they are now) and give you a few frames of invincibility. WDing would be faster than a roll and easier to do (compared to SSBM) but wouldn't be as good as it is in Melee.

Also I always thought a way to depower Fox's shine without destroying it completely would be to make it so all characters get knocked over. That way WDing is still an option, but a shine won't guarentee a wd to upsmash or grab. But thats a different discussion

 

[dizzy]

Also I always thought a way to depower Fox's shine without destroying it completely would be to make it so all characters get knocked over. That way WDing is still an option, but a shine won't guarentee a wd to upsmash or grab.

I think the biggest problem is just the set knockback. The fact that the shine has the same knockback at 0% and 999% is the #1 reason that an infinite is possible. And yeah, making sure that every character would fall down or fly up would help too.

 

[Doctor X]

While I don't have an argument for or against WD'ing being in the next game, I am fairly positive it WILL be in the next game, just modified slightly. If you look at past Nintendo games, you would see that they tend to turn glitches from previous games into new techniques in later games. For instance, there was wall jumping in Super Mario 3 (and even Super Mario 1 I believe) and then when Super Mario 64 came out, they decided to add it as a technique. So it evolved from a glitch to a technique that they put in the game on purpose.

He has a point. As others have already pointed out, the L-cancel first appeared as the Z-cancel in the original SSB, which I'm fairly sure was a glitch since it negates all lag time, meaning it was probably an oversight in animation priorities. It tricks the game into allowing you to put up your shield while lagging against the ground, yet abort the shield before it even comes up.

We of course saw this return in SSBM, except modified. Now, instead of cancelling the animations entirely, this technique speeds them up so they're finished in half the time. This is proof of a deliberate returning and reworking of the Z-cancel.

Developer oversights can and do often lead to great inspiration. I don't see why the wavedash couldn't be treated the same way, since most who do use it agree that it helps the game.

 

[nomis]

Young sir?

You make such a claim like that without even knowing me. That just proves how dumb you are...

Also, you say you're intellectual and act more adult than others...one thing that contradicts you is your sig...you're so dumb, dumb sir.

Gasp! I only called you young sir as a term of respect! I did not mean to insult you in any way *cries*

But wait... didn't you just say... you were trying to avoid flamers like me...?! Well, great way of avoiding flames - AGAIN!

Allow me to inquire you of your previous posts:

There are 25 Characters in Melee!

NOT 26!!!!!!!

So stop making that mistake......according to translations from Sakurai...Sakurai stated it was very hard to include all "26" characters in melee...what a **** newb, he's the creator of the **** game and he doesn't know how many characters are in it?

That's a bad sign....

...

^^^^This is from a thread you created.

Guys Guys Guys!

ITS 25 25 25 25 25 25 CHARACTERS IN MELEE!!!!!

NOT 26!!!!!!!!!

Hmm...

wavedashing should be gone for many reasons...

one reason i shall state for now is that...once brawl comes around and if its online, since the game will be made slower (i don't know how much), then EVERYONE will soon be wavedashing left and right...

AND THEN we will be left in a world of sliding all over the place left and right instead of actually seeing people run/walk...it would be just a game of who can wavedash the best instead of a true game of skill...

wavedashing is fun and all, but lets face it...once brawl goes online when it's released, soon after that most of the people playing will be wavedashing and it will just get very tedious and annoying as there will be dust all over the place

wavedashing will soon become a thing of the past once everyone learns it, and thats when we will truly learn how gay it is and that it should have been taken out of the game, so now is when the move to eliminate wavedashing has to be made to make brawl an even better experience for EVERYONE

u must not have experienced this with other games i see...i've experienced this, one game for example, the transition from halo 1 to halo 2...

and yes dust will overcome u

also, yes i can wave dash, but like i said, its tedious and just cheap AND makes the game less fun overall for everyone

Comparing WDing dust to Halo dust eh...

good job making the point of halo being a shooter, that was very nice of u...

now, in regards to games changing from one sequel to another, yes halo relates to ssb and sbbm...if u fail to see how, although they are different game genres, then dont reply to me anymore because u havent experienced this obviously...

also, 1-2 seconds is actually a long time because smash is a fast-paced game, so now imagine if everyone was constantly doing it? now like i said, nonstop dust, but the dust point i made was besides the point and ur blowing it out of the water......

Are you really trying to avoid 'flamers like me?'

wtf? are u talking to me?

i will wait for u to respond to this before i can completely destroy u

OH NOES! He will completely destroy you!

well, this is exactly why i specifically avoided actually TYPING, not "talking" (as u said), on these forums because i wanted to avoid the flaming homos like you...

who just insult and get off topic, rather than actually speaking about what matters in a logical sense...

in actuality, YOU'RE the newb with no life since you're implying that i am never on here, which means YOU have no life because you're ALWAYS on here...stupid loser

now YOU leave and let us talk about the matter at hand, instead of you giving ur dumb 2 cents in this thread...

people like u is who make the smash/gaming community a bad place for everyone

Oh! Is that a technicality insult I see in the first grammatically-poor sentence? I think it is!

like i just said to the other newb, i avoided typing on here cuz of people like u without a life...

and by the way, the DUST thing was WAY off the point i was making...

you just took it all the way out of context and tried to make a problem out of nothing, u and the other guy are very, very, .... *insert insult here*

I'd like to ask everyone: who really is the dumb one? Yes, that's a rhetorical question.

OK OK, that's enough fun for me. I'm going to speak type seriously (ignore my 'Biography' in my profile) now.
u r a noobz rofl!
EVERYTHING I have said directly to you has NO intent on being insulting/offensive. I talk very sarcastically and sometimes I can't tell if I'm being sarcastic enough to the point of it being obvious. So I'm going to do something for the sake of this thread and the mature thing to do: apologize.

What's this, you ask? Is the great Simon, the only wonder in the world, apologizing to someone? Yes, you read right, I am apologizing.

I'm sorry if I ever offended you in any way, I'm sorry if I called you 'young sir,' and I'm sorry if I was insinuating any flames. That being said, I hope to see a response from you with the same caliber.

Back to being sarcastic: and you suck lol!

Bravo GreenKirby. And Bravo Nomis. Very Nice.

I had a long post back on page 2 or 3. I don't feel like restating. HOWEVER, if SamuraiP is correct in translating, I won't need to repost, since Sakurai wants to make SSBB EASIER, then we will probably see WD'ing waving bye to us. We'll just have to wait and see.

What I think he means by 'easier' is that it will be easier to pick up & play and (hopefully(praying that it will(please Sakurai(oh dear mother of lords(do not make the game))))) not less competitive. I really really hope that WDing will be in SSBB, as, for the 50th time coming from me, it increases depth in the game. Sure, it's unbalanced for some characters, but there is an alternative: Make the sucky characters better. Not just better at WDing, but better as a character.

EDIT: the_suicide_fox (and Doctor X), very very VERY good points. I never even realized that! That's a pretty good insight!

 

[controlfreak7]

Well after thinking about it, I decided ultimately wavedash is a valuable technique (obviously) and all serious smashers should learn how to execute it.

I never played SSB 64 seriously, but I do remember playing it. I never had any idea of proness and such and when it came out (97 was it?) I was about six years old (lol). But that isn't the point years later (now) I've watched videos of the original smash no wavedashing but there was l canceling. It seemed like there were a bunch of death combos that could be executed and much less lag compared to that of Melee.

Although not intentional, wavedashing is obviously an asset unintetionally inputed, but at the same time a somewhat intentional(they knew it was in the game and still released it keeping the "glitch" in) asset to smash. Although ultimately unintended it actually made up for the loss of the crazy combos in the original smash (heck I saw a combo in the Isai vid called Don't Get Hit by FaF where CF's falcon punch was actually used in some air combo ultimately leading to a KO). It opened up a major use of mindgames and assistance in combos as well as speed for some character (which we all probably know) that needed it. The only problem is it would not allow characters to be played Nintendo intended them to be played. For example, Luigi's WD has already been brought up; this single tool makes Luigi who is known for being slow (to those who don't wavedash especially) a relatively fast character. Characters like Bowser have almost no use for the wavedash, but have other capabilities to replace some of the benefits. Bowser can't edgehog using the wavedash which is one of the faster methods, but he has the use of his up B to edgehog with relatively the same speed.

Removing the wavedash most likely will not improve the game in anyway. Making the wavedash go the same distance and give the characters equal speed and advantage would leave a few questions that would have to be answered.

If the wavedash remains and all characters would have the same wavedash it could pretty much lead the characters to all becoming somewhat clones. The wavedash's distance has to do with the lag of the jump and I believe how well the character is able to DI (regardless of what accounts for the length and speed of the wavedash it would have to mean that all the things that regard to it are found the same in every character) If this is not the case then the wavedash would probably executed differently (perhaps, but unlikely a new button or control in order to execute it). How will Nintendo solve the problem of keeping the wavedash the same, but the characters different?

If the wavedash is removed then it may have an impact on some smashers, but others won't change their mind on sticking with the game or leaving it. If the wavedash is removed then players will have to learn a new way to play smash seriously without the use of it. This about the only good thing that comes out of removing it. It gives everyone a new sheet of paper and a fresh start on playing the game so that when it is released all the smashers that started playing late now have the oppurtunity to get as good as the highest pros of smash. It will definately make a huge impact on how people play the game and I can only see it for the worse (especially if the rumors of the gameplay being slower are true).

Keeping the wavedash will make it easy for the veterans and new comers alike adapt to the game in the competitive way faster. Actually it all depends on the way Nintendo presents it if new comers will learn how to use it and put it into their gameplay. If Nintendo presents the wavedash as another technique in the book or tutorials in the game it will help people understand how it can be useful and how to use it faster. Keeping the wavedash is also important because keeping it will make no impact on the fans and if so for the better. Taking it away if affects the fans in anyway will most likely only result for the worse. I know this because using the wavedash, just like using any other advanced technique, is a choice made by the player and not required for playing the game. (unless of course seriously).

Nintendo is better off keeping this technique because as stated perhaps multiple times in this post it can only impact the game and the fans in a positive way.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

It can't only impact the fans positively if people are against it (please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying OMG UR WRONG WAVDASH IS TEH SUCK!)
I feel that WD will be altered by the creators (is it an e or an o?) like z-canceling was. Plus I congratulate all members who aren't taking this topic RIDICULOUSLY seriously and have put forward points for BOH sides as well as saying, If WD stays then be happy, if it goes it won't be too much of a loss, after all brawl IS a new game e.g. me, Nomis and Green Kirby, green kirby put forward some great points which for some unknown reason people afterwards have ignored and replied to with arguements he just countered, Green Kirby FTW! (oh there may be more people but I can't (be bothered to) look back through this thread to find out who they are.

If you think about it, they may have removed WD as it is and some people ewill be upset at the loss but thenmaybe because it's a different game with different ways of playing WD WILL still be in there but with a different way of doing it, you never know, maybe there will even be a different glitch which people use and then a whole massive flame war starts out before a more serious thread comes out (i e this one), one thing that would be interesting would beif there is a glitch disovered which REALLY changes the balance of play making it greatly unfair (no, WD DOES NOT DO THIS) then we'll see what happens when people start using it, will it be banned at tourneys (i expect so)? and will people on these forums go into another massive flame war over it?

All will be revealed in the next episode of SMASHBOARDS: THE GLITCH WARS

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

Wave dashing was discovered in beta testing by programmers. It was named the Super Dash. It was found and left in the game, not knowing it's applications.

Ok, this has been bugging me. It was not named the "super dash" of the "super waveland". Unless it was named differently from as it is in AR, it was called "Land Fall Special".

On that note, Landfallspecial is the game's term for landing after an up-B or airdodge (i.e. any time you can't act before landing). It's not a term used exclusively for wavedashing, and the game isn't differentiating it from landing from an airdodge "normally". If you don't want to take my word for it, ask SuperDoodleMan since he's the one that told me.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

NOES you posted before I finished editing it now you missed the funnies! *cries 5X more than Nomis has*

Edit: wait this was spam, I'd better post something serious, UM yeah well done with that last post and please stop with the over the top arguement other people, it's really not that big a deal.

 

[shminkledorf]

On that note, Landfallspecial is the game's term for landing after an up-B or airdodge (i.e. any time you can't act before landing). It's not a term used exclusively for wavedashing, and the game isn't differentiating it from landing from an airdodge "normally". If you don't want to take my word for it, ask SuperDoodleMan since he's the one that told me.

Eh, I was partially right, thanks for correcting me. I didn't realize it was after an up-b as well.

 

[Alex13]

Wavedashing will, of course, be in the Brawl. Take a second look at the Brawl movie trailer. You see the part where Mario and Link are fighting and Snake and those dudes are talking? Mario wavelands. This means wavedashes are included.

**Edit** Sorry if this was posted, I didn't wanna read it all.

 

[nomis]

If you think about it, they may have removed WD as it is and some people ewill be upset at the loss but thenmaybe because it's a different game with different ways of playing WD WILL still be in there but with a different way of doing it, you never know, maybe there will even be a different glitch which people use and then a whole massive flame war starts out before a more serious thread comes out (i e this one), one thing that would be interesting would beif there is a glitch disovered which REALLY changes the balance of play making it greatly unfair (no, WD DOES NOT DO THIS) then we'll see what happens when people start using it, will it be banned at tourneys (i expect so)? and will people on these forums go into another massive flame war over it?

All will be revealed in the next episode of SMASHBOARDS: THE GLITCH WARS

I already see it coming.

Guy A: hey man, dont use that new ripplesprint its like, whoa, wth is that lol
Guy B: the programmers found it in november what are you talking about lmao
A: yeah but now its totally blown out of proportion lol
B: its a TECHNIQUE not a glitch lmao!
A: only because people labeled it as a technique
B: your mom is labeled a technique
A: lol nice one - ripplesprint is about as natural as your mom (shes so fake lol)
B: the game isnt natural DUH look at snakes rocket launcher PIKACHU NEVER EXPLODES INTO PIECES WTF
Guy C: I stand neutral to this argument as I have a choice as to whether or not use ripplesprint even if my opponents choose to do so!
A: gtfo you stupid ***** **** you you ****ing erected ***** jerking ******* ***** eat **** and puke ****ed up **** mongrel **** *****
B: lets go back to /b/ lol
A: agreed

A: lmao

Wavedashing will, of course, be in the Brawl. Take a second look at the Brawl movie trailer. You see the part where Mario and Link are fighting and Snake and those dudes are talking? Mario wavelands. This means wavedashes are included.

**Edit** Sorry if this was posted, I didn't wanna read it all.

This wasn't posted before in the thread but this has been discussed about 2 weeks ago. Everyone came to the conclusion that (I think): Mario just lands. Not land fall special.

 

[Jill Valentine]

To be honest, WD'ing definately does have that edge in competition...those that use it, use it well, and those that don't or aren't familiar with it, may have difficulties in dealing with an opponent who does utilize it.

Personally, I feel that it is one of those aspects that makes the game as competative as it is today, I hope it stays, if not, we'll just have to find other crap to abuse the hell out of <_>

 

[Sensai]

I love how this whole board has been turned into a war zone.

People are more than allowed to have their own opinions, so don't bash someone for statin' 'em, especially if it's just 'cause you have an opposing viewpoint. Try and think creatively and write something down other than all the 1337 sp34k flaming.

Although, reading the chattering and flaming between two parties is rather funny. Gives me a good laugh...so even if you all don't stop, you'll continue making me giggle, so flame and know that you're making someone's day decent.

Back on topic, I expect that the WD will be changed a tad, like L Cancelling was. I had never heard that it was changed between Smashes, and had never known that.

Doesn't seem far off to say that it'll just be modded, 'cause it's now a necessary part for higher tier players.

 

[Animal control]

i think wavedash should be in it.

 

[Coreypsych]

I agree, it can realy turn the tables if you know how to use it. Though if it's kept, it's probably going to be at a price (but I'm not sure what they, or it, is going to be).

 

[Inferno_blaze]

they'll probably make it so all chars can, heavy ones less so but they should make up for that by adding a weight system so bowser goes like 1/3 of the distance fox would if hit and knocks other further. I expect they'll also reducs the distance slightly and/or give it a slight lag time to make it more "fair", remember z-canceling removed ALL lag time, L-canceling now only removes half so I expect them to do something like that, well that's if they keep it in.

Also, Nomis those are times I'm looking forward too ( nice your mom jokes :D)