VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[MacD]

haha i had a feeling others would want to know

i'll discuss it with kk first and then try and share what i told him, i feel like i'd just ramble and be stupid about it if i just tried giving advice right now

if you see in any vids where peach is off stage/gonna get shine spiked link me, and i can try sharing what they did right/wrong, it's easier for me to give things like that off a vid

short version, it you have to float at a certain spacing/height to avoid it, it all depends though on your position and stuff, i'll try telling you guys my secrets sometime this week

 

[thesage]

I like being in ledgegrab range and waiting for fox to let go of the edge so I grab it. It's a guessing game though. =/

 

[GooeyBanana]

Yeah I should be uploading videos soon. Next challenge is learning to not SD and make dumb offstage decisions anymore, and learn the Marth & Sheik matchups. I'm catching on to Fox & Falco. Also, I did something absurdly dumb that baffels me as to how it worked. I did Peach's overB when Dart was upB'ing with Y. Link, and I dodged his upB's slash just barely by the short kick back that Peach's overB does, and then like the overB went right through the remaining slashes of his upB and it hit him with a trade which killed him. I dunno if this got recorded, but it was very odd and I wonder if that'd be a practical counter to Y. Link/Link's upBs.

Oh yeah, and I suck at neutral B. Sooooo muchhh....>_< I love the progress I'm making on Peach though =).

OMG one more thing...Falcon's dthrow...I swear I DI it down and away, yet he still can follow up before I can do anything. I remember Armada DI'ing Hax's dthrows just like that and never getting punished for it unless Hax mindgamed him in some way. Do you like have to air dodge down into the ground right as you get out of like grab throw stun(whatever the hell it's called lol) and then buffer shield roll or something? And I'm assuming to get out of Marth's fthrow you DI down and away and buffer roll? DI is so damn important with Peach >_<....

 

[ShroudedOne]

I have two issues that I'm not exactly sure how to deal with, as a Peach main. Firstly, if Fox does a dair to waveshine on me, and continues to waveshine, exactly how should I DI out of that. I've heard that's it's situational with Peach, and that depending on how you're getting shined, you can DI towards him or away. At high percents, this always leads to an upsmash, and usually at low percents too, so I'd like to figure out a surefire way to escape it (I've also heard that SDI'ing the dair initially will save you, but that's really difficult to do).

The second question is in regards to my Peach's play style. Having been a Brawl kid first, I naturally play a little slower, and I do decently with her. But whenever I turn up the speed on her, I seem to do a great deal better, as people can't quite react to me. So I guess what I want to know is how to maintain a fast Peach (or if I should alternate between the two).

I apologize if the second one sounds stupid, but I'm simply not used to having a constant string of fast reactions. I definitely know I need to get faster in Melee in general. Thanks in advance for the help!

As a side note, I haven't seen this: a board where up and coming Peach mains can post videos of sets/matches and have them critiqued. Is there indeed one that I didn't see, or is there not one? If not, I would like to know how to get my style critiqued.

Sorry for sounding so formal...

 

[Dark.Pch]

I have two issues that I'm not exactly sure how to deal with, as a Peach main. Firstly, if Fox does a dair to waveshine on me, and continues to waveshine, exactly how should I DI out of that. I've heard that's it's situational with Peach, and that depending on how you're getting shined, you can DI towards him or away. At high percents, this always leads to an upsmash, and usually at low percents too, so I'd like to figure out a surefire way to escape it (I've also heard that SDI'ing the dair initially will save you, but that's really difficult to do).

The second question is in regards to my Peach's play style. Having been a Brawl kid first, I naturally play a little slower, and I do decently with her. But whenever I turn up the speed on her, I seem to do a great deal better, as people can't quite react to me. So I guess what I want to know is how to maintain a fast Peach (or if I should alternate between the two).

I apologize if the second one sounds stupid, but I'm simply not used to having a constant string of fast reactions. I definitely know I need to get faster in Melee in general. Thanks in advance for the help!

As a side note, I haven't seen this: a board where up and coming Peach mains can post videos of sets/matches and have them critiqued. Is there indeed one that I didn't see, or is there not one? If not, I would like to know how to get my style critiqued.

Sorry for sounding so formal...

Everytime fox hits you with a shine, Tap the Stick back. it makes it harder for Fox to keep up with it. There is another method which is risky. If Fox is shining you, You ether Hold down on the stick and tap down right on the C stick. You an end up behind Fox and break away. This is only if you feel he will try to drag you. Cause if not, its a free grab/upsmash for fox. its something like that. I forgot. it's been a while.

For your second question, go to training mode and just practice comboing space animals and Falcon. Practice wave landing. You an wave land off a platform jump back on it and do it again over and over. try doing this without messing up. Then Go on YI and waveland on one platform to the other across back to back. This is just ways to get you use to the speed. You can make up other ways to speed yourself up. This is usually how I do it.

For vid advice I think people just usually made a thread and have others give advice.

 

[thesage]

I have two issues that I'm not exactly sure how to deal with, as a Peach main. Firstly, if Fox does a dair to waveshine on me, and continues to waveshine, exactly how should I DI out of that. I've heard that's it's situational with Peach, and that depending on how you're getting shined, you can DI towards him or away. At high percents, this always leads to an upsmash, and usually at low percents too, so I'd like to figure out a surefire way to escape it (I've also heard that SDI'ing the dair initially will save you, but that's really difficult to do).

To SDI the dair just hold away and wiggle the control stick. Not that hard to do, but it's hard to react to.

When I played against Cyrain I would sometimes di the shine hit towards Fox and he said it ****ed up his waveshines. It doesn't work against everybody though. What Dark Peach said works too but I think that Fox can hit you with u-smash after a shine regardless of how you di/sdi, you just need to mix it up so that he has to read you for it.

The second question is in regards to my Peach's play style. Having been a Brawl kid first, I naturally play a little slower, and I do decently with her. But whenever I turn up the speed on her, I seem to do a great deal better, as people can't quite react to me. So I guess what I want to know is how to maintain a fast Peach (or if I should alternate between the two).

This depends on your playstyle. You should do what works for you. In order to play fast you have to push buttons fast and accurately. Mashing the controller does not work.

As a side note, I haven't seen this: a board where up and coming Peach mains can post videos of sets/matches and have them critiqued. Is there indeed one that I didn't see, or is there not one? If not, I would like to know how to get my style critiqued...

Just post videos in this thread.

Oh yeah, and I suck at neutral B. Sooooo muchhh....>_< I love the progress I'm making on Peach though =).

Toad is not that good of a move. Use other things. I use it when I'm trying to get up from the ledge sometimes, but that's it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

If Fox is accurate, he can always link his Shine > U-smash on Peach (barring slopes and her grabbing the edge).

 

[john!]

exactly. that's why earlier i said that peach only wins if the fox makes mistakes. you've gotta punish, and punish HARD.

also toad is amazing. you guys don't even know.

 

[KirbyKaze]

"If the Fox makes mistakes"... It's impossible to play a perfect game, let alone 2-3 perfect games.

Peach needs to stay on her toes and be careful. You can't become stupid because there are lasers being shot at you.

 

[thesage]

Powershield all the lasers.

EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Also you should learn how to speak swedish.


Things that annoy me, when the side-b of a space animal clinks with my aerial. ALL MY RAGE!

Also, I keep getting hit/trading hits when I use dair to edgeguard things like Spacies up-b or falcon up-b. How does it wrok.

 

[MacD]

if you get hit by falcon's up-b when you dair, you just suck

with spacies, you need to back up a little more, dair kinda kicks in front of you a bit, and so if you are directly over the firebird, it will at best trade. it's simple enough once you learn that you can back up kinda far and still hit them. don't forget after the first hit of dair connects, you can then move forward or back some to keep in line with them

 

[thesage]

I try with bair and nair and he just grabs me through it and I get mad. How do you do it. I already know I suck.

 

[Rosedemon]

Timing is key.

 

[Wake]

I like MacD's advice... "if you get hit by falcon's up-b when you dair, you just suck"

 

[KirbyKaze]

2013 Peach vs Fox metagame

The two clips before it are also rough indicators of the Peach vs Falco and Falcon matchups.

 

[thesage]

I've actually been able to ko somebody with the umbrella like that. It's the best thing ever.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm terrible at the parasol open-close.

 

[thesage]

I've been practicing it for a while now so...

yea...

 

[MacD]

I try with bair and nair and he just grabs me through it and I get mad. How do you do it. I already know I suck.

i figured that's what you meant, but you never know, since you explicitly said dair with falcon's up-b

vvvv

Also, I keep getting hit/trading hits when I use dair to edgeguard things like Spacies up-b or falcon up-b. How does it wrok.

i hate that about falcon too, i use bair and he grabs me, idk the frame data whatever for it, but it seems like his grab box is bigger than you bair hitbox so if he is gonna grab you, you can't beat it with bair

idk about nair but it's gotta be roughly simliar

the reason fair works is because it's disjointed, and dair works for obvious reasons

 

[The Irish Mafia]

i swear to god, parasol trapping and actually getting it to do something makes me feel like the coolest ****ing kid on the planet.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Hey, guys. I played Peach one time. It was hard.

Bye.

 

[BloodyPuppy]

Hey, guys. I played Peach one time. It was hard.

Bye.

I can vouch for this man.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I can vouch for dash attack! Hehehe.

 

[HondaFoo]

I can vouch for dash attack! Hehehe.

If you know dash attack you already know 50% of Peach's game!

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Cnt believe Vanz just up and left without saying goodbye to me </3. I still love my sig though

 

[Battlecow]

Hey dudes

Battlecow here, competitive 64 player and melee übernoob. I "main" peach (because of dat Dsmash, why else?) in my regrettably low-level matches against even-noobier classmates, and I have a couple questions, if y'all will deign to answer them.

1. How critical is wavedashing to Peach's game? I've heard that hers is the shortest, and that all the floating she does obviates much of the need for wavedashing. In what situations is wavedashing useful to her?

2. I keep hearing about Nair OoS, and from watching vids and **** I guess that means out of shield. How R done? I've tried just jumping of of shield and then Nairing, but it seems real slow compared to the vids I've seen.

3. Can peach do that jump-cancel grab thing or whatever where you dash forward and then jump and then grab and get a little extra range? If so, should I be using it like all the time?

4. What moves should I crouch-cancel and then Dsmash? I never have any luck with that ****, obviously at low %'s more stuff will work but I always feel awkward crouching and waiting for them to hit me.
Thanks for your help and sorry for wasting your time.

 

[BloodyPuppy]

I personally don't use Peach's wavedash outside of playing Marth's, and even there somewhat sparingly. I have seen it used to great effect by other, better players however. Wavelanding is also very useful, I would recommend you know how to utilize that. I'm not sure what the general consensus is on whether it's vital to Peach though, but it can't hurt to learn it, and it is undeniably useful.

Nairing out of shield is just something you need to get used to doing. I'm not really sure exactly how to explain doing it, you just press x or y when in shield and do a nair as you would any other aerial. Just practice the timing for it when you've got a spare moment, it shouldn't be terribly difficult to get the hang of after you get used to it. You can also do a float canceled nair out of shield which is crazy useful, but way harder. That'll probably take a little more time to get used to though.

Yes, Peach can jump cancel grabs. I think it's better than dash grabbing, but I'm not sure about that. I think that her chaingrab on spacies and falcon uses a dash grab though.

It really depends on the character you're fighting and what your percentage is at for crouch canceling. If someone jabs it's practically a guarantee you can CC it, other than I guess Ganon. It seems like you can CC a lot of peoples neutral airs at lowish percents, notably fox and falco's. I'm having a little difficulty thinking of much advice absent of a particular match-up, so I would suggest giving the match-up rundowns at the start of this thread a look, some of them mention particular moves that it is to your advantage to CC. Also with some time and experimentation you'll learn for yourself some of what works, so whenever you're playing a friendly take the opportunity to try new things since nothing is on the line.

Hopefully someone with a little more experience can go into a bit more depth, but hopefully this helps a bit.

 

[Ocean]

[deleted.]

 

[Teczer0]

Cnt believe Vanz just up and left without saying goodbye to me </3. I still love my sig though

Does this make me best peach in Tristate now?

=3

 

[MacD]

dash grab is longer, and comes out at the same time as her regular grab, so i always dash grab cause i normally need the extra range and i figure, if i miss, i'm going to get punished either way

and for crouch cancelling, you don't' just sit there crouching waiting for them to hit you, cause if they do they are stupid, (and so are you haha). it's one of those reaction things that you have to do

Does this make me best peach in Tristate now?

=3

guess this means i should move to tristate, most definitely can't have this happen

 

[DoH]

Stop downsmashing guys

It gets you grabbed/hit/etc

 

[ShroudedOne]

Well I'm back, and in need of help with Peach. If someone could look at these matches and critique them for me, that works. Such as things I'm doing right/wrong (especially wrong).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvMy3ZhiQjc

The Falcon I was playing usually plays a lot better, with matches more or less going even.

 

[PandaCobo]

So im a noob with peach. could i have my vid critiqued. Just so i can get better. I have hit a plateau and just need some help.
UCM #7 2Badsosad (Fox) vs Pandacobo (Daisy/Peach) Set
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_Nf6PsiMgo

UCM Tourney #7 Bizzarro Flame vs Pandacobo Set
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMxNn04M4NM
(ignore the kirby part he is my secondary)

 

[john!]

i noticed both of you guys used ftilt occasionally. if this is intentional then you probably have better options than ftilt (it's a bad move imo), and if it's unintentional (i.e. you were trying to dash attack or something) then you should tighten up your tech skill so you don't accidentally use it, since it's really easy to punish. two other important advanced techs that i personally like are wd out of shield and fast ground float nairs. you could try incorporating those if you want to step up your game. lookin good tho ^^

 

[Battlecow]

Hey guys, thanks for the advice. I shall absorb your wisdom.

 

[Cia]

Cnt believe Vanz just up and left without saying goodbye to me </3. I still love my sig though

I just had so much to do, I didn't get to say goodbye to a lot of ppl.

pretty much everyone

 

[PandaCobo]

i noticed both of you guys used ftilt occasionally. if this is intentional then you probably have better options than ftilt (it's a bad move imo), and if it's unintentional (i.e. you were trying to dash attack or something) then you should tighten up your tech skill so you don't accidentally use it, since it's really easy to punish. two other important advanced techs that i personally like are wd out of shield and fast ground float nairs. you could try incorporating those if you want to step up your game. lookin good tho ^^

Yeah they were unintentional. i need to work on tech alot. thanks for the advice. i get nervous playing people and mess up a lot of my tech stuff

 

[ShroudedOne]

i noticed both of you guys used ftilt occasionally. if this is intentional then you probably have better options than ftilt (it's a bad move imo), and if it's unintentional (i.e. you were trying to dash attack or something) then you should tighten up your tech skill so you don't accidentally use it, since it's really easy to punish. two other important advanced techs that i personally like are wd out of shield and fast ground float nairs. you could try incorporating those if you want to step up your game. lookin good tho ^^

Yeah, I hate that. Dashing with Peach seems to be a bit more difficult that it is with other characters. That's certainly something I'd like to tighten up. WD OoS is something else I'd like to incorporate. Thanks for the advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjmI1P38H4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oK8ao3sIsE

Those are some more matches of my Peach. One of the things I'm having trouble with is knowing if my survival DI (or DI in general) actually does anything. Some times I feel like it does, and other times I just die anyways (I am from the Midwest...) maybe anything that you guys notice could help me out? (Whether it's horrible, or okay, but could be better, etc.)

Thanks again!

 

[Wake]

I've seen Armada nair out of Fox's up throw uair, and I've pulled it off a couple of times in my matches, but I don't really understand how it happens. Does anyone know how that works exactly?

 

[MacD]

mainly cause the fox sucks (aka does it too slow)

DIing can help but it's 100% because the fox sucks or goes for a uair after you DI when it shouldn't hit

also, i'll try getting to whatever things were posted before hand, but now it seems the only time i check the boards is in my LoL breaks or during school. soooo yea haha