VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Rosedemon]

^ really man i already said i didnt think d-tilt is a great launcher just pointing out she has one, then btw it was pointed out you could also use up-air. and of course i talk about peach from neutral she has good air speed and i never have had problems getting to an edge guard unless i knock the other guy across a stage. you are acting like KK is right about everything he said and that he isnt saying things we all know. So just tell me now should i not post if i think someone is misinformed if they are a better known and better player then me.

What i think KK is trying to do is point out some of the limitations peach has and i just think he ether said the wrong thing (wording) or is off, i might not be the best peach in the world but i know her very well. Maybe u should listen to what i am saying.

and whats up with these angry (sound angry when read) posts? i mean KK said i was arguing with him. i dont remember arguing with anyone. people are taking this to personally. i am not attacking KK as a person i dont know him at all i just think he was off target on what he was saying. and not even wrong about all that he was saying.

No one ever stated that Peach DIDNT have a launcher. It was all about reliability. Dtilt/upair/upsmash/uptilt are no where near as reliable as other characters, and thats all that was pointed out.

Im not disagreeing with you because I think KK's word is god, or that hes good. Im disagreeing with you because I think you're wrong. I really didnt want to have to evaluate your past post on a point by point basis because KK already did. You're trying to offset a lot of her disadvantageous with advantageous that arent in the same tier. You cant dismiss poor vertical movement with her good horizontal movement and call it a day. You can substitute situational launchers in place of tried and true Shiek tilts.

No ones calling her a bad character. KK actually talks about how shes a very good character in his initial post. You say that we should be looking at her pros instead of her cons which is something we've done countless times in this thread (im telling you this for reference not to better my argument). The comparisons we're making to other characters are to show how relative her strengths (and weaknesses) are in regards to the game itself.

Also, if you feel attacked by my comments then you're probably in an argumentative/confrontational mood as I dont mean anything maliciously.

Or you could have some insecurities.

 

[DoH]

You all need to implement utilt/ftilt as an interceptor vs Falcon.

Also Peach's dj is ****ing terribad. If I had a dollar for everytime I tried to dj out of a throw and ended up jumping down into the knee/fox uair/falco dair because of the dip I would not need to play this game any more.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

No one ever stated that Peach DIDNT have a launcher. It was all about reliability. Dtilt/upair/upsmash/uptilt are no where near as reliable as other characters, and thats all that was pointed out.

Im not disagreeing with you because I think KK's word is god, or that hes good. Im disagreeing with you because I think you're wrong. I really didnt want to have to evaluate your past post on a point by point basis because KK already did. You're trying to offset a lot of her disadvantageous with advantageous that arent in the same tier. You cant dismiss poor vertical movement with her good horizontal movement and call it a day. You can substitute situational launchers in place of tried and true Shiek tilts.

No ones calling her a bad character. KK actually talks about how shes a very good character in his initial post. You say that we should be looking at her pros instead of her cons which is something we've done countless times in this thread (im telling you this for reference not to better my argument). The comparisons we're making to other characters are to show how relative her strengths (and weaknesses) are in regards to the game itself.

Also, if you feel attacked by my comments then you're probably in an argumentative/confrontational mood as I dont mean anything maliciously.

Or you could have some insecurities.

so u dont read my posts. i already said i dont think her d-tilt is a great reliable launcher and in my last post i even said i missed were he first said reliable.

i am not trying to offset her problems. i am just pointing out her strong points which i felt were being neglected, i agreed with KK her vertical was bad. whats wrong with pointing out her strong points exactly its not taking away from what KK said. in fact pointing out the strengths should just lead to KK responding to them to clarify or strengthen his initial argument.

i am not in a confrontational or argumentative mode. i am sick and took some medician to sleep, so this post might be a bit off. but i am still pretty sure your comment about insecuities is a angry/negative comment which is indeed an attack against me. Anyway if u looked at my posts u would of seen i agreed with KK on many points and just brought up questions were i thought his points were weak.

i am literally to sick and tired to deal with this **** now

 

[Rosedemon]

so u dont read my posts. i already said i dont think her d-tilt is a great reliable launcher and in my last post i even said i missed were he first said reliable.

i am not trying to offset her problems. i am just pointing out her strong points which i felt were being neglected, i agreed with KK her vertical was bad. whats wrong with pointing out her strong points exactly its not taking away from what KK said. in fact pointing out the strengths should just lead to KK responding to them to clarify or strengthen his initial argument.

i am not in a confrontational or argumentative mode. i am sick and took some medician to sleep, so this post might be a bit off. but i am still pretty sure your comment about insecuities is a angry/negative comment which is indeed an attack against me. Anyway if u looked at my posts u would of seen i agreed with KK on many points and just brought up questions were i thought his points were weak.

i am literally to sick and tired to deal with this **** now

Trust me, I read your posts (at no point did I say I hadnt). Why discuss if I have nothing to discuss about.

Even though you are analyzing her strengths, I feel as if your view is truncated because of your inexperience. DoH points out how lacking her double jump truly is, and its something that I would view as situational, not a strength. Therein lies what I believe your posts are trying to convey. Almost (please take note of almost) everything you've listed is situational, and your scenarios are almost (<---) always the perfect situation.

We all have insecurities. Its probably my fault for trying to convey a sense of nonchalance over the internet, but you really need to stop taking things as personal attacks. If I was gunning for you, you'd know.

 

[Germs Lady]

Gotcha - Done. :D

Germs Lady - I understand you're trying to spread the word but unfortunately I can't have you advertise it everywhere .

If you can keep it at a minimum at the social threads. I'm sorry, and I wish for the best

 

[adumbrodeus]

No one ever stated that Peach DIDNT have a launcher. It was all about reliability. Dtilt/upair/upsmash/uptilt are no where near as reliable as other characters, and thats all that was pointed out.

Im not disagreeing with you because I think KK's word is god, or that hes good. Im disagreeing with you because I think you're wrong. I really didnt want to have to evaluate your past post on a point by point basis because KK already did. You're trying to offset a lot of her disadvantageous with advantageous that arent in the same tier. You cant dismiss poor vertical movement with her good horizontal movement and call it a day. You can substitute situational launchers in place of tried and true Shiek tilts.

No ones calling her a bad character. KK actually talks about how shes a very good character in his initial post. You say that we should be looking at her pros instead of her cons which is something we've done countless times in this thread (im telling you this for reference not to better my argument). The comparisons we're making to other characters are to show how relative her strengths (and weaknesses) are in regards to the game itself.

Pretty much exactly what I told you on FB chat N.A.G.A.C.E, kirbykaze is talking on relative terms, this is where peach fails relatively.


And no, dtilt is a good move, but not a reliable launcher, it's not faster then reaction and it doesn't send people up always, so rather then being a move you can directly use to counter it requires setup (ex. CCing, wd back, etc). Foated uair similar requires setup. While fast and actually can be used to directly counter things is ridiculously unsafe.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I was actually trying to make a really big post that tears into NAGACE but I don't care anymore. Largely because Alan's covered most of it and was far more polite about it.

On that note, why don't we discuss Bowser's strengths? He's got a great grab game and tons of launch moves. And ridiculous shield pressure because his spaced D-tilt hits twice!

 

[MacD]

Armada was viewing this thread about 2 minutes ago.

Just thought you guys should know.

he likes to do that, then laugh at us i think

No ones calling her a bad character.

well....

why does Peach suck so much?

LOLLOL

On that note, why don't we discuss Bowser's strengths? He's got a great grab game and tons of launch moves. And ridiculous shield pressure because his spaced D-tilt hits twice!

don't forget how strong his fsmash is, it kills soooo low

and when i was playing against dj, his uair killed me on dreamland at like 80 or something, that's gotta count for something

 

[KirbyKaze]

Does anyone here go for FC Nair > FC Nair combos at low percents on characters?

Like, I hate Nair > D-smashing Marth because he only gets hit by the initial hit most of the time (some DI required I guess) and then proceeds to drop on me with Dair or tipped Fair as the D-smash ends. Or something. I know I can Nair > dash attack but I feel I can't follow directly after that. Has anyone done Nair > grab as a combo on semi-floaty / floaty characters? Is there any reason to grab?

On Sheik and FFers it's easy to pick a follow because they fall into the extra hits of D-smash at low percent but on characters like Marth and Peach when I land an FC Nair that isn't CCed I'm really lost on what my good options are to follow.

 

[Silly Kyle]

Maybe you guys could stop being douchebags and talk to each other more constructively. <3

 

[adumbrodeus]

Maybe you guys could stop being douchebags and talk to each other more constructively. <3

Where's the fun in that? Silly kyle is silly.

 

[Rosedemon]

Maybe you guys could stop being douchebags and talk to each other more constructively. <3

 

[MacD]

OMG THAT'S AMAZING ALAN, I LOVE YOU

we did talk constructively, it lead into a ***** fest, i mean seriously, how much more do you want from us???

at least we are TRYING to help everyone

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

here something i found sad and funny to but this all behind us http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr...446625&Signature=fMG9yDWfqNSjyHMGmfi0G72gXMI=

3eanuts (<the website) is amazing

 

[Silly Kyle]

Let's just chill out you guys. No need to be hateful towards each other!! <3

The input you guys give to these boards is awesome, but you don't need to be condescending in the process. Sure, you might disagree on some things, but it isn't necessary to make personal attacks.

 

[Rosedemon]

If you read through both my posts, you'd see that my attacks werent personal at all. Dont take my words out of context or add angry undertones to what im saying and you wont feel insulted.

 

[john!]

you all SUCK at peach

learn to edgeguard

****

Spoiler

<3

 

[KirbyKaze]

Maybe we could talk about alternative low percent combos. What percents do F and B throw start knocking over?






My Peach has decent edgeguarding and can float cancel quickly. I also have very good chain grabs. The troublesome part is that I suck at everything else about her (ie. fighting).

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

look man i am letting it go. i am sick and my heads a bit foggy so its possible i might of overreacted, (not sure still sick) and if so i will admit it. but some of the posts did have a negative tone to them. plus i did say i agreed that d-tilt is not great idk why people keep bringing it up. anyway i am done with this i want to move past it b/c i have nothing against any of you guys and i want to stop this from going any further so it would be cool if we could all just let it go and enjoy the comedy which is http://3eanuts.tumblr.com/. (just found the site and i love it right now)

Now about that nair to nair thing idk if it works never tried it but i read FC bair at low % can lead to a grab so i wonder if nair does as well not sure. i will try to test this stuff next time i play people.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

nagace looking like the me of last year, lol

 

[Wake]

Drama drama drama

 

[HondaFoo]

here something i found sad and funny to but this all behind us http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lisnc7njVF1qisuj3o1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1301446625&Signature=fMG9yDWfqNSjyHMGmfi0G72gXMI%3D

3eanuts (<the website) is amazing

Those panels are incredibly depressing actually

 

[thesage]

Peach combos against floaties that I know off...

D-tilt->fc uair->nair it ***** other peaches too
dash attack -> dash attack
D-throw -> read
Turnips to aerial
aerial to turnips
dair -> dair -> dair -> uair/nair/bair?
f-throw -> mindgame -> f-throw <===da bess
resting jigglypuff -> turnip -> d/u-smash

I don't really use b-throw for combos, doesn't seem to work well. I am experimenting with upthrow on Marth at lower percents.

Fc Nair -> fc Nair works
I also like fc Fair to fc fair. I stole it from doll. Doesn't work against good people.

I'm amazing.

Actual i knot gud.

 

[Rosedemon]

FC Fair to FC Fair works on certain floaties.

I've definitely landed 3 in a row in Peach dittos on multiple occasions.

Edit: Also, I hope you all know that down throw is a chain throw on like everyone if they dont DI, and a dash attack if they do. Down throw-->upsmash kills marth/peach/samus if they dont DI/DI in front of you.

 

[MacD]

yo alan

now we teamsies in multiple games

i carry you in one

you carry me in one and against ganon hahahah

people best start to fear the super rainboyz

 

[Rosedemon]

First Smash, then LoL, and now THE WORLD.

 

[Armada]

KirbyKaze: There you have a combo with fc nair to fc nair =).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBaVO-jd-xo

I like use fc nair but against good people it´s really hard to use it good/often

MacDaddy69: Im not like that

 

[Beat!]

That was ****

 

[KirbyKaze]

KirbyKaze: There you have a combo with fc nair to fc nair =).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBaVO-jd-xo

I like use fc nair but against good people it´s really hard to use it good/often

:D

Cool. Thanks Armada!

 

[DoH]

I down throw fast fallers if my back is to the ledge and down smash them as they di into the stage

 

[Wake]

Oh that sounds cool. I don't know why I've never tried that before...

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

KirbyKaze: There you have a combo with fc nair to fc nair =).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBaVO-jd-xo

I like use fc nair but against good people it´s really hard to use it good/often

MacDaddy69: Im not like that

man i love and hate watching armada.

I love it because its just so awesome/amazing to watch.

I hate it b/c i think i have gotten much better then i see something like that and feel very scrubbish again

 

[MacD]

Does anyone here go for FC Nair > FC Nair combos at low percents on characters?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzxs-PqGHAA#t=1m29s

if you've never seen this kk, you need to

Spoiler

i miss pink shinobi, he was so good

 

[Rosedemon]

TEEHEE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQIG6_zRQfc&feature=related

 

[KirbyKaze]

I was waiting for that vid actually.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

TEEHEE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQIG6_zRQfc&feature=related

the clip that made me a peach main

 

[Wake]

I like XIF's combo video...

 

[Rosedemon]

That combo video made me wanna get technical.

 

[Sim]

Hey guys I need some help with the Mario match-up.

I have no videos of me playing but well, I'll just list some issues I have. We're quite good so don't mind going into details.

- I can't seem to approach well with turnips. He has good reflexes: if I don't throw it, he reacts accordingly, if I throw it, he capes, so I'm kinda doomed with that. Any ideas as to how to approach? He's the kinda player who dashes forward, wavedashes back, dashes forward, wavedashes back, rinse and repeat so placing a fair is hard too. Sometimes my hits land, sometimes they don't,. but i don't like being clueless. Also, I'm always subject to that dumb FIRESMASH of his and i'm tired of it, he spaces it incredibly well.

- To edgeguard I've tried dropping bair (a bit like dropzone but less suicidal) and it worked good but now he expects it and pulls off a cape or uair with proper timing. I tried to fair him when he up-B but he sweetspots so it doesn't work. Throwing turnips isn't working well either because Mario has that dumb cape. Any clues?

- Ok now I get combo'd. I mean, Mario's uair is dumb!!! How do I DI that properly? I tried all kinds of direction but I STILL get juggled a lot! I can escape falcon's combos quite well, adding mindgames to the lot, but it seems like it's not working against mario >_< If it ain't the uair it's the utilt, and its priority's insane also so the nair combo breaker doesn't even work haha.

- He's hard to follow-up, unlike the spacies/CF or other floaties. He's like in the middle of them all, not a floatie, not a FastFaller. I tried fair > fair but he's not floatie enough and DIs well, and I can't FC nair > FC nair because he's not heavy enough >_> One thing I was successfully doing was FC Fair > mindgame fullhop Fair (because he DI upwards a lot) but It's not really reliable...

So that's pretty much it. I am very good at PShielding so his fireballs aren't a big problme, and I usually just stick to nairing him out of the air, cuz he jumps a lot, and am able to make it 50/50 with that, but I want to beat that mario, not be 50/50!

Please help me.

 

[Rosedemon]

MARIO YOU SAY?! TEEHEE

Shroomed doesnt play much Mario, but I have some mild experience.

You dont approach with turnips, plain and simple. If you do have a turnip in your hand, run towards him like you're gonna turnip--> then smash throw it behind you and go into a floating low bair. If he trys to cape or catch it, you hit him. If he doesnt get tricked, you're in a semi-safe option as you can just FC the bair into a downsmash or gtfo.

Edguarding both Marios is dumb. You cant really punish their low options because their sweetspot game is so good, so you gotta go high on them. When they're coming back to the stage (from above) you have to avoid/aerial threw the fireballs/pills. The timing on this is crucial as you can time it to where you aerial threw the pill while also hitting them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVhUDT4iRMA#t=1m20s

Like that, but it actually hitting them afterwards (works with nair and fair as well).

Dont challenge the utilt, you'll get hit every time. Its hard getting in on the utilt but you can work around it or bait it. Also, DI as if he were Falcon. You're gonna get hit by a few up airs, but it really doesnt matter cuz Mario can only follow it up with ****ty options.

You dont really follow Mario up, you kinda just hit him and then back off, and then hit him again. Shield pressure is key here. He cant do anything about repeated FC nairs/bairs on his shield but roll away, which you can predict and punish. So once you get him in his shield, keep him there. He can punish FC aerial --> downsmash depending on how close he is, so be careful with that.

Thats all I can remember about that matchup right now. Hope it helps.