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Unofficial Project M Ridley - CLASSIC RIDLEY BETA RELEASED! 31/10/16

What is your opinion on this hack?


  • Total voters
    909

Kalimdori

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Hey Bagan, when you release this mod, can I have your permission to make a showcase-type video explaining Ridley's strength and weaknesses? I'm going to be getting an Elgato capture card in the near future, and I've got a pretty decent mic now. It's really bugging me how almost every video that's made on this mod gets dumb comments about how unbalanced Ridley is, I'd like to try and rectify that.
 

latinking

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
159
I'd love to do that, however, I'd like to wait a little bit because the mod's changing all the time. The fireball Neutral B doesn't work yet for example and couldn't be tested in the slightest.
So the mod you have doesn't have the short ranged flamethrower as the default input? I thought BaganSmashBros had done this relatively early. Nevertheless, whenever you decide to do the thorough explanation video, you also need to show how much percentage it takes to launch Ridley off the stage, off screen, etc.
 

BaganSmashBros

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The more I see it, the more I dislike the Front Smash animation.

Idk why, I just seem to dislike it lol.
Is it the unnatural way his tail spins or part of animation after hitboxes disappear/tail stops extending?
Jesus this looks amazing. One problem though, you should really find more voice effects for Ridley. I don't think I'd be comfortable with him making the same sound for his attacks. Also, HOLY CRUD THAT PRIORITY! You wouldn't mind cranking it down, would you? Last we need is another Brawl Snake God Tier issue.
I have at least 7 voice clips for attacks, so, its just a matter of how they are used. There will be less in ported versions most likely. He is already far from god tier with his floatyness, weight, exaggerated tipper mechanic and size, so, there isn't much to worry about.
It bothers me that people are commenting on balance when this is an alpha that isn't available to the public yet.
Alpha is when there is barely anything done. Example of it is Big Rigs, but perhaps it is even before that. What we have is a nearly finished mod with 40 animations left.

It looks fantastic, Bagan. The victory animation, in particular, had me peeing my pants in Metroidian bliss. There is one issue I have, however, and it's that it seems that nearly every attack has Ridley doing the same hissy roar. Even under the music it got repetitive and annoying.
There are different roars. Its just that they sound very similar. I have Omega Ridley and Meta Ridley's roars and SFX, so, i could make 2 extra sfx replacements.
I'd love to do that, however, I'd like to wait a little bit because the mod's changing all the time. The fireball Neutral B doesn't work yet for example and couldn't be tested in the slightest.
You could give info on what is currently there and doesn't needs any major changes. Oh, and about fireballs...Not anymore!

He shoots 3 fireballs that can actually KO opponents, but they disappear after going through 65% of FD. Right now i need to make them uncontrollable. Flamethrower is done, as i said some time ago, by holding A while he is stepping back until he goes into right animation.
Hey Bagan, when you release this mod, can I have your permission to make a showcase-type video explaining Ridley's strength and weaknesses? I'm going to be getting an Elgato capture card in the near future, and I've got a pretty decent mic now. It's really bugging me how almost every video that's made on this mod gets dumb comments about how unbalanced Ridley is, I'd like to try and rectify that.
Sure.
 

Nanobuds

Smash Ace
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May 17, 2013
Messages
896
Yeah...just reading these comments on Reddit about Bagan's mod made me want to facepalm. Hard.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2tbbq9/ridley_in_project_m/

If only people could be more open-minded about the things in life, instead of isolating themselves from others with their own subjective opinions, the world could be a better place.

But I digress. This is a fantastic mod all around, though I'm a bit worried from looking at some of Ridley's aerial moves. They seem a little too fast for someone as powerful as him.
ORRRR

maybe don't post a video showcasing the moveset everywhere until its more done? If you don't want honest, opinions (seriously, he has some obvious MAJOR balancing issues) then don't make a huge, public video until after its somewhat balanced.

People have opinions, and will share them. Its gonna happen. People will criticize the mod. Its what happens. There is no reason to "facepalm."

Be more open-minded about criticism, then the world could also be a better place.

Anyways, it looks good so far. I look forward to its future progress.
 
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Warzenschwein

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
331
ORRRR

maybe don't post a video showcasing the moveset everywhere until its more done? If you don't want honest, opinions (seriously, he has some obvious MAJOR balancing issues) then don't make a huge, public video until after its somewhat balanced.

People have opinions, and will share them. Its gonna happen. People will criticize the mod. Its what happens. There is no reason to "facepalm."

Be more open-minded about criticism, then the world could also be a better place.

Anyways, it looks good so far. I look forward to its future progress.
True.

Well, I'm not complaining, I'm interested in honest criticism to help this mod's balance.

Also some attention can't hurt I'd say... we want to show people that Ridley has some potential and that someone's working on making him a viable character.
 

latinking

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
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Is it the unnatural way his tail spins or part of animation after hitboxes disappear/tail stops extending?
The Front Smash we saw in the video is Ridley simply extending his tail towards the enemy. It seems pretty fast, and personally, I love the reach and strength (when the tip gives full damage). I see the Front Smash as a perfect way to deal with players trying to get back on stage. There was no spin whatsoever.

Currently, the general complaint is that Front Smash has too much reach, but the people saying it don't know about the tail-tip mechanics, and probably think the ENTIRE tail hits hard. Other complaints are its speed (i think). In my honest opinion, just the lack of any spinning from the tail before it hits the opponent is its downside. What could be done, depending on your point of view, is that a spin or 2 of the tail could be implemented as the default, non-charged start-up animation of Front Smash. Not only will it slightly add start-up to the attack, which will please some people (long start up + super powerful attack with long reach = happy balance), but it will also make it visually unique from his Tilt-Side A.

Oh, and about fireballs...Not anymore!

He shoots 3 fireballs that can actually KO opponents, but they disappear after going through 65% of FD. Right now i need to make them uncontrollable. Flamethrower is done, as i said some time ago, by holding A while he is stepping back until he goes into right animation.
Should they KO opponents? I think shooting out 5 fireballs with weak power seemed better, but that's just me!
 
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Nanobuds

Smash Ace
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May 17, 2013
Messages
896
I'm not exactly a balancing guy. I'm an art guy for Project M.

The model needs work. A lot. The Other M model is just WAY too detailed for Brawl/PM's art style. It stands out too much. His colors are over-saturated and the contrast is gross. It makes the colors pop out too much.

What do I think you should do? Go for a middle-ground. A mix of the two models. More of Brawl Ridley's art style, but using more model characteristics from Other M's model.

Just my opinion.
 

UltiMario

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I think the very warranted "FSmash looking unnatural" is more of a Smash thing than an animation thing.

Smash's art and animation style isn't very compatible with body parts stretching across an entire stage. FSmash might be better suited to something like Ridley curving his tail around his body and slapping his tail down in front of him, making a hitbox more similar to the later frames of Marth's Forward Smash than anything else. The tail would cover a smaller distance and go through a more natural motion this way, something way more suited to the Smash Series. The current animation also emphasizes the already incredibly large model size. Remember that people were very uncomfortable with Brawl model sizes in general because they were very large compared to other games, and Ridley is much larger than the biggest playable model in the series, Brawl Bowser. Using somewhat jank animations that further emphasize that makes the whole character feel less polished, especially when PM has shrunk the overall model size compared to Brawl.

Blending Ridley into Smash's style is just as important as capturing the character's essence from the games. Small animation changes like that can go a long way.
 
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Pacack

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I'm not exactly a balancing guy. I'm an art guy for Project M.

The model needs work. A lot. The Other M model is just WAY too detailed for Brawl/PM's art style. It stands out too much. His colors are over-saturated and the contrast is gross. It makes the colors pop out too much.

What do I think you should do? Go for a middle-ground. A mix of the two models. More of Brawl Ridley's art style, but using more model characteristics from Other M's model.

Just my opinion.
The model's just a modified version of the Other M one, so it doesn't surprise me that it looks out of place.
 

BaganSmashBros

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ORRRR

maybe don't post a video showcasing the moveset everywhere until its more done? If you don't want honest, opinions (seriously, he has some obvious MAJOR balancing issues) then don't make a huge, public video until after its somewhat balanced.

People have opinions, and will share them. Its gonna happen. People will criticize the mod. Its what happens. There is no reason to "facepalm."

Be more open-minded about criticism, then the world could also be a better place.

Anyways, it looks good so far. I look forward to its future progress.
Well, it is ~75% finished in the video, with only things like swimming, items and sleeping animations left out. As for those obvious issues, unless you are talking about something else, then range on him is a joke unless he hits with tail blade. Seriously, most of his tail attacks can't KO at 999% (maybe a little bit less, but still too weak) unless Ridley hits with tail blade.

One thing is feedback. Something that helps such projects. But then there is the whole "Too Big" thing. Thats the reason for facepalm.

...Ridori confirmad fo Projectu Em.
 

JayTheUnseen

Smash Champion
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To those discussing FSmash animation,I think it could stand to change.Maybe instead he does a short hover/hop and thrusts the tail out into the front from between his legs,or from beneath him?
 
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BaganSmashBros

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Whoops, clicked "Post Reply" too soon.

I'm not exactly a balancing guy. I'm an art guy for Project M.

The model needs work. A lot. The Other M model is just WAY too detailed for Brawl/PM's art style. It stands out too much. His colors are over-saturated and the contrast is gross. It makes the colors pop out too much.

What do I think you should do? Go for a middle-ground. A mix of the two models. More of Brawl Ridley's art style, but using more model characteristics from Other M's model.

Just my opinion.
I would go for that, but thats all i can do - make Other M model look good compared to original one. I can't rig models.

The Front Smash we saw in the video is Ridley simply extending his tail towards the enemy. It seems pretty fast, and personally, I love the reach and strength (when the tip gives full damage). I see the Front Smash as a perfect way to deal with players trying to get back on stage. There was no spin whatsoever.

Currently, the general complaint is that Front Smash has too much reach, but the people saying it don't know about the tail-tip mechanics, and probably think the ENTIRE tail hits hard. Other complaints are its speed (i think). In my honest opinion, just the lack of any spinning from the tail before it hits the opponent is its downside. What could be done, depending on your point of view, is that a spin or 2 of the tail could be implemented as the default, non-charged start-up animation of Front Smash. Not only will it slightly add start-up to the attack, which will please some people (long start up + super powerful attack with long reach = happy balance), but it will also make it visually unique from his Tilt-Side A.

Should they KO opponents? I think shooting out 5 fireballs with weak power seemed better, but that's just me!
I will add 2 spins to make it like in Super Metroid (or Zero Mission, i don't remember), but then i will reduce end lag, which is enough to Falcon Punch him right now.

Pit's arrows can KO too. I reduced amount of fireballs after seeing how easy it is so just spam them, with opponent being unable to do anything even with a reflector since fireballs cancel out each other...somehow...instead of getting reflected and hitting Ridley.
To those discussing FSmash animation,I think it could stand to change.Maybe instead he does a short hover/hop and thrusts the tail out front from between his legs?
His tail is so long even at normal length that he will need to go up so high it wouldn't make sense for him to suddenly go down if he gets hit.
 

latinking

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FSmash might be better suited to something like Ridley curving his tail around his body and slapping his tail down in front of him, making a hitbox more similar to the later frames of Marth's Forward Smash than anything else. The tail would cover a smaller distance and go through a more natural motion this way, something way more suited to the Smash Series.
That makes a lot of sense actually... However, instead of having Ridley slam down his tail in front of him, he could instead curve his tail upwards in front of him, like so.

Was lazy to put in the tail :). But yeah, perhaps the Front Smash does need more changes than I initially thought. This would allow to reduce the range that many seem to have a problem with. I'd still love to see the tail spin, though if the range is shortened like the image above, then at that point, the tail spinning should be strictly kept only when the player charges the Front Smash.
 
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BaganSmashBros

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That makes a lot of sense actually... However, instead of having Ridley slam down his tail in front of him, he could instead curve his tail upwards in front of him, like so.

Was lazy to put in the tail :). But yeah, perhaps the Front Smash does need more changes than I initially thought. This would allow to reduce the range that many seem to have a problem with. I'd still love to see the tail spin, though if the range is shortened like the image above, then at that point, the tail spinning should be strictly kept only when the player charges the Front Smash.
That will increase its vertical range.
 

Nanobuds

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Well, it is ~75% finished in the video, with only things like swimming, items and sleeping animations left out. As for those obvious issues, unless you are talking about something else, then range on him is a joke unless he hits with tail blade. Seriously, most of his tail attacks can't KO at 999% (maybe a little bit less, but still too weak) unless Ridley hits with tail blade.

One thing is feedback. Something that helps such projects. But then there is the whole "Too Big" thing. Thats the reason for facepalm.

...Ridori confirmad fo Projectu Em.
Well then shrink the tail blade. That sweetspot is huge for the amount of KO power it has.
 

BaganSmashBros

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Well then shrink the tail blade. That sweetspot is huge for the amount of KO power it has.
That could work and would make him look smaller, but then it may be too hard to hit with. It would be like if Marth would be bigger and would have nearly no damage and knockback on his sword except for the tip.
 
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Narpas_sword

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people can hit with the tip of marth well easily.
Anything that has a sweetspot at the tip has to be VERY carefully balanced, else it will be abused. it can easily become the best option in most situations and leave the rest of the moves to gather dust in the 'not as good as this' basket.
 

drogoth232

Smash Lord
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My problem with it is the animation itself. It just doesn't look right imo. I honestly don't know how to give more critique other than saying I don't approve of the animation. I can't give another alternative because it'd be a generic slash or something.
 

UltimateWario

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I think the F-Smash looks pretty awkward, but I don't think it looks stupidly out of place or anything. Something I've always found attractive is the idea of Ridley crouching down, then striking forward with his tail like a scorpion would. It could give him a piss-weak hitbox above him, then a powerful sweetspot at the point where the tail strikes the ground.

Ridley arcing his tail over his back would reduce the range some, and the fact that the tail would make contact with the ground would make it a little more picky as to where the opponent would have to be to take the full brunt of the strike. You could even allow a follow-up tail-strike with a lot more cool-down (make Ridley briefly roar after using the follow-up or something) to give a sort of "All-or-Nothing" second chance if you happened to miss with the first blow.

That said, I think the F-Smash could viably stay the way it is now, and simply be given a more natural-feeling animation later on.
 

latinking

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That will increase its vertical range.
It's hard to explain, but what I had in mind is that Ridley extends his tail towards his front (like he does in the first few frames of his current Front Smash), but instead of continuing to extend it in a straight line for the rest of the animation, the tail would curve upwards in front of him, limiting his reach. The tail doesn't need to go that high up vertically, it could stop at the height of his head.

This boss in Contra 3 does pretty much what I'm trying to explain, except it shouldn't cover too much vertical range. The tail still tries to hit what's in front of him, but quickly recedes back towards the dragon's body. This can be seen at exactly 21:39, after the boss begins to teleport.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ0PNA-1JTg
 

latinking

Smash Apprentice
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Something I've always found attractive is the idea of Ridley crouching down, then striking forward with his tail like a scorpion would. It could give him a piss-weak hitbox above him, then a powerful sweetspot at the point where the tail strikes the ground.

Ridley arcing his tail over his back would reduce the range some, and the fact that the tail would make contact with the ground would make it a little more picky as to where the opponent would have to be to take the full brunt of the strike. You could even allow a follow-up tail-strike with a lot more cool-down (make Ridley briefly roar after using the follow-up or something) to give a sort of "All-or-Nothing" second chance if you happened to miss with the first blow.
I like this idea too! Seems more attractive than what I had suggested. Whatever BaganSmashBros decides to do with Front Smash, if the Charging animation and/or start up animation consists of Ridley spinning his tail like the 2D games, I'm golden.
 
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Wolley2xjd

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Hey Bagan you think you can slow Ridley down a bit because look's WAY too fast plus I think that might not be the best when some of his attack have such great range.

In short Ridley's too fast.
 

AustarusIV

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ORRRR

maybe don't post a video showcasing the moveset everywhere until its more done? If you don't want honest, opinions (seriously, he has some obvious MAJOR balancing issues) then don't make a huge, public video until after its somewhat balanced.

People have opinions, and will share them. Its gonna happen. People will criticize the mod. Its what happens. There is no reason to "facepalm."

Be more open-minded about criticism, then the world could also be a better place.

Anyways, it looks good so far. I look forward to its future progress.
I was only facepalming at the "too big" comments in that site, some of which came from people who thought he looked "****ing huge" and could never made proper as a playable character. It's always good to give constructive criticism so long as you don't seem biased, and most of the commentators there were admittedly just skeptics to Ridley's capabilities as a fighter, so I can't find fault for them on that.
 

MagiusNecros

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People that make comments that pitiful do it to get a reaction, don't know what they want and only serve to present themselves as witless neanderthals not worth paying any attention to.
 

SuperMii3D

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Bagan, you wonderful human being. I am ready for this mod and all of its Glory. I dont mind losing Pit, so its all good. Keep up the good work, and know that we support your work and awesomeness.
 

PyotrLuzhin

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Bagan, you wonderful human being. I am ready for this mod and all of its Glory. I dont mind losing Pit, so its all good. Keep up the good work, and know that we support your work and awesomeness.
As an FYI, with my porting method, you'll have the ability to replace ROB, Olimar, Lucas or Toon Link if you'd rather keep Pit in the roster.
 

5eb

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Looks great, just saw some gameplay, and I cant wait for this project to be finished!
 

UltimateHylian

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Oh man, you posted that sexy video right on my birthday! Looks amazing so far. I know I can't really tell until I play it by myself, but that n-air spike looks a bit too easy to land? But I'm not gonna lie, it was satisfying to see Ridley just killing it like that. Those throws are so brutal. I can't wait to try it!

Also, Nanobuds noticed this thread and actually commented on it giving feedback/advice. Illuminatidley confirmed for PM 3.666.
 

BaganSmashBros

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Hey Bagan you think you can slow Ridley down a bit because look's WAY too fast plus I think that might not be the best when some of his attack have such great range.

In short Ridley's too fast.
Thats Project M and his aerial attacks are supposed to be fast. Some of his attacks can be punished with a Falcon Punch.
people can hit with the tip of marth well easily.
Anything that has a sweetspot at the tip has to be VERY carefully balanced, else it will be abused. it can easily become the best option in most situations and leave the rest of the moves to gather dust in the 'not as good as this' basket.
Imagine Marth with longer sword, but with same sweetspot size. Tail attacks won't be the best option since they MUST be sweetspotted or else Ridley is just taking risk getting hit without any reward.
That said, I think the F-Smash could viably stay the way it is now, and simply be given a more natural-feeling animation later on.
I'll go for this one. I just can't leave out something that was in every 2D game Ridley appeared in except for Metroid 1.
Oh man, you posted that sexy video right on my birthday! Looks amazing so far. I know I can't really tell until I play it by myself, but that n-air spike looks a bit too easy to land? But I'm not gonna lie, it was satisfying to see Ridley just killing it like that. Those throws are so brutal. I can't wait to try it!

Also, Nanobuds noticed this thread and actually commented on it giving feedback/advice. Illuminatidley confirmed for PM 3.666.
Yes, it is too easy to hit with.
 
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BaganSmashBros

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I was thinking about how to make Ridley always spin his tail at least twice without turning this attack into vBrawl Ganondorf UTilt-level trash. So, i swapped long end lag for long start up. Here is how it looks:

Those 2 tail spins are always done, so, now it is even more like in 2D games.
 

HypnotizeOverdrive

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Well, its a very common thing for such attacks and it always remains purple even if Ridley is white.
It IS a common thing, yes, but it's something I don't recall the last Ridley PSA having (don't quote me on that) and it looks very professional.
I can imagine white Ridley with the purple trails would be absolutely gorgeous to look at. I see myself using the white palette more than the rest.
 

Kenith

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I watched the combo video just now. I've been watching this project for a long time and I have to say that this is probably one of the best character mods I've ever seen. I love it so much!
Not even a Ridley fan, I just think this is a beautiful creation.
 

SuperMii3D

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As an FYI, with my porting method, you'll have the ability to replace ROB, Olimar, Lucas or Toon Link if you'd rather keep Pit in the roster.
Thanks, I might replace Olimar, since no one I know really uses him.
I was thinking about how to make Ridley always spin his tail at least twice without turning this attack into vBrawl Ganondorf UTilt-level trash. So, i swapped long end lag for long start up. Here is how it looks:

Those 2 tail spins are always done, so, now it is even more like in 2D games.
This is looking great. Keep it up Bagam
 

SuperMii3D

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As an FYI, with my porting method, you'll have the ability to replace ROB, Olimar, Lucas or Toon Link if you'd rather keep Pit in the roster.
Thanks, I might replace Olimar, since no one I know really uses him.
I was thinking about how to make Ridley always spin his tail at least twice without turning this attack into vBrawl Ganondorf UTilt-level trash. So, i swapped long end lag for long start up. Here is how it looks:

Those 2 tail spins are always done, so, now it is even more like in 2D games.
This is looking great. Keep it up Bagan
 
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