• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Treesicle: Why Super Smash Bros Will Never Be A Major eSport

LiteralGrill

Smokin' Hot~
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
5,976
Location
Wisconsin

Super Smash Bros. has been growing incredibly as an eSport as of late. The entry levels and prize pools for Evo 2015 were mind blowing and there are still many major events lefts in the Summer of smash for us all to enjoy. However, when it comes to being on the level of a game like League of Legends we are not yet there and one team of Youtubers thinks that we may never reach that level.

Treesicle recently released a video to discuss the potential of Smash as a major eSport as a part of their recently launched The Truth... Maybe series. With the in-your-face title of: Why Super Smash Bros Will Never Be A Major eSport it has points worth discussing as our community grows as well as some controversy.


Agree or disagree? Let us know those feelings in the comment section below. To give the folks at Treesicle those thoughts personally be sure to check them out on Twitter and Youtube.

SmashCapps thinks some good points were raised but does not agree with everything said. To hear his thoughts on all things Smash follow him on Twitter.
 

CptJPuff

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
313
Way to put down the community.

Also, you technically don't need to hunt down Melee and a Gamecube. There's Dolphin, Nintendont, DIOS MIOS, etc.
 
Last edited:

Munomario777

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
3,253
Location
Charleston, South Carolina
3DS FC
0387-9596-4480
Switch FC
SW-8229-3157-8114
Smash 4 is accessible (you can even download it via the eShop), and it's rather consistent (even though balance patches are made, but they don't fundamentally change the game, and they only improve balance). I see no real issue here.
 

Trollinguy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
37
Location
Ohio
Does it matter? It would be nice but we can live without it, as we have already shown.
 

WritersBlah

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 3, 2010
Messages
316
Location
Miami, Florida
NNID
WritersBlah999
Way to put down the community.

Also, you technically don't need to hunt down Melee and a Gamecube. There's Dolphin, Nintendont, DIOS MIOS, etc.
Tell that to freakin' anybody who doesn't normally play games or who have never heard of emulators or homebrew and expect them to understand that.
 

ZomBiehn

Semi-Pro
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
226
Location
Bangor, ME
NNID
ZomBiehnU
3DS FC
3153-5961-0908
I lost brain cells watching this garbage... How did this make it on the front page of smashboards?
 

Im Fragbait

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
166
In my opinion the only thing that is limiting smash from being a major esport is the fact that everyone has to be at the same venue... league, dota, and starcraft all have the luxury of being able to be played online. Smash really doesn't have that, and i know some people are gonna be like "WHAT ABOUT FOR GLORY???" well for glory honestly really sucks, its not competitive, theres no skill level match making which makes it impossible to get better. Your either playing someone way better than you (Which is pretty rare) or your playing some scrub that just picked up the game to play with friends and stumbled in to for glory with out knowing how to play the game in the first place. If we want this to get big Nintendo needs to help fix smash 4 match making, add list of legal stages, an ability to communicate with who your playing against in the main lobby, and a way to see the other players character before the match begins. Thats the only reason smash 4 isnt big(Melee people dont hate on sm4sh cause the sm4sh players will come for you). Melee is an even bigger problem. The game has the potential to be the most competitve game ever, but you have to be with the person your playing with, THERE IS NO EASY ACCESS ONLINE PLAY, Setting up Melee over pc is extremely differcult and confusing and when its all said and done you still need to get a controller adapter for your computer, AND YOU STILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH TONS OF LAG WHICH COMPRIMISES THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME. WE NEED AN EASY ACCESS ONLINE MODE/GAME OR SMASH WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TAKE ON BIG TITLES LIKE LEAGUE OR DOTA.
 

Laggalot101

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
122
Location
Netherlands
3DS FC
1418-6741-7161
Question. Is Smash becoming a major e-sport something we desire in the first place? Just curious.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
Not a fan of the video, outside of the access part which I think will become more valid of a reason overtime.

I agree the changes in mechanics will slowly push into a divide, it already did with Brawl and Melee back in the day, now it is Melee and Smash 4. Though this one is a lot less hostile than it used to be.

Still changes happen and like he said in the video it was ironic he released this when Evo was going on, lol.

Skill Level for Smash> Spamming Click on a computer
It's a bit different than that.

A lot of the skills needed for League is about situation awareness and micromanaging.

Raw movement or spell rotations, yeah smash is harder easily.
 

LiteralGrill

Smokin' Hot~
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
5,976
Location
Wisconsin
This is an article because?
I lost brain cells watching this garbage... How did this make it on the front page of smashboards?
I tend to say the same things when I get asked this question, but for this article in particular:
  • I saw this being passed around a good bit before Evo and being discussed but unfortunately I was on a Greyhound bus and incapable of using it then.
  • Since people were discussing it and such it makes sense to show it here to engage others in that discussion
  • It raises interesting points on things we could improve on within the scene
  • Whether I don't agree with them or not (as I didn't agree entirely with the video) it is still good to show opinions and such of different kinds
Hopefully that explains it nicely.
 

MintChipper

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
483
Location
Southern California
NNID
TonyEH
3DS FC
2793-1055-4457
The only thing I agree with here is pot bonuses, don't compare Smash, a FIGHTING game, to big esports like MOBAs, or real life sports, and many big esports organizations have invested in Smash already (Cloud9, TeamSoloMid, Team Liquid, etc ) another thing you didn't mention was how Nintendo doesn't support the game beyond allowing it to be at an event or streamed.
 

Dylan_Tnga

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
4,644
Location
Montreal Canada
Warning Received
Who cares? E-Sports is stupid. Nobody deserves to be making an income of 50k + a year playing video games.

Boo hoo the prize pool for Evo was only $11 000.00 (more money than I make in 2 months)

Take what you can get money wise out of playing video games, because if you really think you deserve to be paid big bucks for it, you're a sad person & you should get a real job.

F**k esports.

Melee has never been about the money. Ever. It's always been about the pride that comes with being #1.
 

oZzIIgk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
224
Location
MD, USA
Smash 4 is accessible (you can even download it via the eShop), and it's rather consistent (even though balance patches are made, but they don't fundamentally change the game, and they only improve balance). I see no real issue here.
but smash 4 doesn't have a tech skill ceiling or any of the things that make Smash competitive in nature aside from a winner and loser
 
Last edited:

oZzIIgk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
224
Location
MD, USA
double post hang me pls
I thought that fighting game pros hated the term eSports anyways
 

Murlough

Euphoria
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
2,713
Location
Tennessee
NNID
Murl0ugh
3DS FC
4828-8253-7746
Ok. So after reading the comments to a news article for the eleven hundreth time, I've gotten curious.

You guys that say "Why is this on the front page of Smashboards?", what would you WANT here? Is there ANY kind of article that SmashCapps could make to satisfy you?

To answer the question of why it is here.....it is Smash related. The topic above can start discussion for some of us Smashers....so yeah.
 
Last edited:

oZzIIgk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
224
Location
MD, USA
I don't see why it has to be specifically tech skill.
maybe because smash 4 has next to no tech
I do know that it has some but really the depth isn't that great. And, since we're talking about it, the largest eSports in existence benefit from depth. League of Legends and DOTA 2 are both incredibly deep.
 
Last edited:

Luggy

Drawing like a tramp
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
5,016
Location
France
NNID
Luggy_Bros
3DS FC
4184-3014-1463
This man isn't really good at making controversies. I mean, who cares about eSports except for the LoL players ?

At least @Omni does it better. He's straightfoward about it.
 

Mo433

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
326
Location
Oakland, California
NNID
Mo4233
3DS FC
0173-2195-9739
I actually kinda agree with this video. While I do think that the Smash Community will continue to grow, I don't think that it will simply reach the level of games like League or Dota. Those games have international appeal, and has maintained similar gameplay throughout the years. Honestly, I think Smash 4 is the only game that would have a chance at becoming as big as these games, but even that is unlikely to happen soon.
 

NitroSSBM

The coolest Falco of all time
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
87
Location
Toronto
Yes, Super Smash Bros. as a whole may not, but SSBM easily could become a major esport.
 

Auramaniji

Roasted!
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
398
Location
N/A
NNID
N/A
In my opinion the only thing that is limiting smash from being a major esport is the fact that everyone has to be at the same venue... league, dota, and starcraft all have the luxury of being able to be played online. Smash really doesn't have that, and i know some people are gonna be like "WHAT ABOUT FOR GLORY???" well for glory honestly really sucks, its not competitive, theres no skill level match making which makes it impossible to get better. Your either playing someone way better than you (Which is pretty rare) or your playing some scrub that just picked up the game to play with friends and stumbled in to for glory with out knowing how to play the game in the first place. If we want this to get big Nintendo needs to help fix smash 4 match making, add list of legal stages, an ability to communicate with who your playing against in the main lobby, and a way to see the other players character before the match begins. Thats the only reason smash 4 isnt big(Melee people dont hate on sm4sh cause the sm4sh players will come for you). Melee is an even bigger problem. The game has the potential to be the most competitve game ever, but you have to be with the person your playing with, THERE IS NO EASY ACCESS ONLINE PLAY, Setting up Melee over pc is extremely differcult and confusing and when its all said and done you still need to get a controller adapter for your computer, AND YOU STILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH TONS OF LAG WHICH COMPRIMISES THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME. WE NEED AN EASY ACCESS ONLINE MODE/GAME OR SMASH WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TAKE ON BIG TITLES LIKE LEAGUE OR DOTA.
Has everyone forgotten that some games doesn't require internet match making for competitive e-sports? You can easily go out and play other people.

Sure the internet is becoming more commonplace within e-sports but that doesn't mean a new online mode (which in your words "accessible" is really needed to start a major esport. I think it takes much more than that.

Who cares? E-Sports is stupid. Nobody deserves to be making an income of 50k + a year playing video games.

Boo hoo the prize pool for Evo was only $11 000.00 (more money than I make in 2 months)

Take what you can get money wise out of playing video games, because if you really think you deserve to be paid big bucks for it, you're a sad person & you should get a real job.

F**k esports.

Melee has never been about the money. Ever. It's always been about the pride that comes with being #1.
Mang0 plays video games for a living. So does leffen, armada, and previously mentioned m2k. That's melee.
 

oZzIIgk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
224
Location
MD, USA
I actually kinda agree with this video. While I do think that the Smash Community will continue to grow, I don't think that it will simply reach the level of games like League or Dota. Those games have international appeal, and has maintained similar gameplay throughout the years. Honestly, I think Smash 4 is the only game that would have a chance at becoming as big as these games, but even that is unlikely to happen soon.
I'll make the point again, Smash 4 is the baseline of what it means to be a Smash game. Its depth is equivalent to Melee when you first bought it on release day. Except it's not going anywhere.
 
Last edited:

Im Fragbait

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
166
Has everyone forgotten that some games doesn't require internet match making for competitive e-sports? You can easily go out and play other people.

Sure the internet is becoming more commonplace within e-sports but that doesn't mean a new online mode (which in your words "accessible" is really needed to start a major esport. I think it takes much more than that.


Mang0 plays video games for a living. So does leffen, armada, and previously mentioned m2k. That's melee.
Just letting you know smash isnt that big... There are areas or cities even where NO ONE IS COMPETITIVELY PLAYING THIS GAME making it hard on newer players to understand the game and get started. ALSO smashboards is kinda in its own little nitch so you need someone to tell you about it otherwise you really never hear about it. And even in some areas where they are playing smash the players arent that great. And Some cities dont even have groups or events where they practice or compete. ACCESS TO THIS GAME NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED. THIS IS A GREAT GAME AND I LOVE IT TO DEATH ALL I WANT IS FOR THIS COMMUNITY TO GROW. This cant happen with how things have been running.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
maybe because smash 4 has next to no tech
I do know that it has some but really the depth isn't that great. And, since we're talking about it, the largest eSports in existence benefit from depth. League of Legends and DOTA 2 are both incredibly deep.
I'll make the point again, Smash 4 is the baseline of what it means to be a Smash game. Its depth is equivalent to Melee when you first bought it on release day. Except it's not going anywhere.
The difference from what we saw at evo and what we saw at APEX, customs excluded, is pretty large.

It's growing and developing in many ways, you don't need tech skill like what would be a requirement in Melee. But it doesn't hold the game back to the point it's future is gone.

There is a lot to learn and people still haven't gotten perfect pivoting down outside of Amsa trying it out out for his neutral game with Greninja.

Who knows, Melee is faster and has a higher requirement for tech skill. Smash 4 is slower but it's speed is honestly fine outside of edge stall stuff that happens with customs on and it has shown people beginning to nail down a lot of difficult maneuvers in smash 4 now.

To be frank, league is deep, but it is not due to tech skill. A lot of it is situational awareness. Maybe you could count CSing as tech skill or some champs like Lee Sin, Vayne and Zed who are pretty hard.

Depends what you are looking for in a game, Smash 4 isn't doomed and neither is Melee for Esports if people want that.
 

AZ_Spellbound

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
275
I don't see Smash becoming an Esport or even street fighter. Something about the FGC will always be healed back, but that isn't a bad thing. Fighting games have always been more grass rooted and people played for pride rather than money.
 

Mo433

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
326
Location
Oakland, California
NNID
Mo4233
3DS FC
0173-2195-9739
I'll make the point again, Smash 4 is the baseline of what it means to be a Smash game. Its depth is equivalent to Melee when you first bought it on release day. Except it's not going anywhere.
It's not necessarily tech that people care about. It's popularity as well as accessibility. Smash in general just doesn't have the international appeal it needs to be a major eSport. Sure, it's popular as a fighting game, but it simply doesn't have the build nor following to become this large.
 
Top Bottom