Treesicle: Why Super Smash Bros Will Never Be A Major eSport

[Mercury]

I been watching Smash for like nearly 10 years bro. I don't give a **** what people say about this game. 6 digit worth of people are watching multiple versions of this game at EVO. Why do people have such unrelenting pessimism in this video game? Get over the chip on your shoulder and just have fun and keep making tournaments and stop worrying about the fragility of a future you have little control over

 

[DahremRuhar]

I didn't read any of this, yet posted. What do i win?

A warning perhaps?

 

[muddykips]

i thought the point of the video was to discuss smash as an esport. so whys this guy spend like 90% of the video comparing it to real life sports?

like duh soccer isn't gonna get a sequel, how the hell are you going to improve on the physics of a game that takes place in real life???

 

[MOI-ARI]

I lost brain cells watching this garbage... How did this make it on the front page of smashboards?

Because...!

uhhh...

Because ...maybe because y-your Garbage!

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHWHAT someone call the fire department!

 

[Rikkhan]

smash will never be a e-sport because it was never intended to be an e-sport to begin, the focus of smash has always been a family friendly fighting game. LoL on the other hand is completely focused in competitiveness it's a e-sport game.

 

[manrangan]

Way to put down the community.

Also, you technically don't need to hunt down Melee and a Gamecube. There's Dolphin, Nintendont, DIOS MIOS, etc.

and how many of those methods are legal?

 

[manrangan]

Fighting games as eSports are quite honestly still a bit of a joke. 2,000 entrants at EVO for Street Fighter may sound like a big deal, but it's a joke compared to actual eSports like LoL. This isn't a Smash issue, it's an FGC issue.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Skill Level for Smash> Spamming Click on a computer

What game is that again? Cookie Clicker? If you don't understand a game, don't trash talk it, League is nowhere near spam clicking on the computer, there's a bunch of **** you need to take into account and do. In my opinion, the melee skill cap is a lot higher, but there's no reason to dumb down such a complicated game.

 

[Munomario777]

and how many of those methods are legal?

How many of these methods have actually been actively prevented by Nintendo? It wouldn't be used in tournaments anyway; just for at-home practicing and such.

(Not to mention the fact that SSBM isn't sold in stores or even on the Virtual Console, so there's really no other way to play it besides overpaying on eBay or something.)

 

[CptJPuff]

Ignore this.

 

[Jupiter9099]

All that matters to me is that SSB is an awesome series.

 

[Fugibean]

Do any smash players actually want smash to be a major esport? I like being grassroot. Our tournaments seem like a lot more fun then LoL tournaments.

 

[Auramaniji]

Just letting you know smash isnt that big... There are areas or cities even where NO ONE IS COMPETITIVELY PLAYING THIS GAME making it hard on newer players to understand the game and get started. ALSO smashboards is kinda in its own little nitch so you need someone to tell you about it otherwise you really never hear about it. And even in some areas where they are playing smash the players arent that great. And Some cities dont even have groups or events where they practice or compete. ACCESS TO THIS GAME NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED. THIS IS A GREAT GAME AND I LOVE IT TO DEATH ALL I WANT IS FOR THIS COMMUNITY TO GROW. This cant happen with how things have been running.

It never was big, sure it might of had it's MLG run and current EVO streak but it's not even big. I agree with that.
Nobody is going to call out the names of our favorite smashers at the grocers anytime soon because of them being huge.
However, I disagree with you on your point on people playing this game. There might be a few dead zones here and there for competitive games, some people have different tastes. However, we must make the move to make sure smash becomes noticed outside our normal bounds. Not sit here on our keyboards and do nothing about it in this closed off section of the internet.
Tell people what competitive smash is.
Start a scene.
Start rivalries.
Cause drama.
Build off of each other.
Do whatever it takes that is right to get this game on people's radar.

 

[Delta Chae]

Who cares? E-Sports is stupid. Nobody deserves to be making an income of 50k + a year playing video games.

Boo hoo the prize pool for Evo was only $11 000.00 (more money than I make in 2 months)

Take what you can get money wise out of playing video games, because if you really think you deserve to be paid big bucks for it, you're a sad person & you should get a real job.

F**k esports.

Melee has never been about the money. Ever. It's always been about the pride that comes with being #1.

What's that logic? The major smashers makes their money through tournament winnings, streams, and sponsorships, all of which are perfectly sound methods of earning money. Why are you so worked up about it? Why does it matter to you if these people are making money by playing video games?

 

[yorkiesandskittles]

Something about Melee that immediately comes to mind is the many revisions of it available. Only the USA 1.02 version is used in most tournaments, but there are also the USA 1.00 + 1.01, JPN and PAL revisions.

The worst part about it is that if you're buying a USA copy, you won't know which revision (out of the 3 US revisions that there are, unless the seller either states the revision or provides a picture of the disc) you'll get until you actually have the disc in your hands, meaning that buying a copy off eBay largely involves hoping that you'll get 1.02, since many eBay sellers aren't aware of the whole revision thing.

SM4SH is much better in this regard, since you can upgrade to the latest version by just downloading the latest update. Best of all, all regions of the game are essentially identical.

 

[Rikkhan]

What's that logic? The major smashers makes their money through tournament winnings, streams, and sponsorships, all of which are perfectly sound methods of earning money. Why are you so worked up about it? Why does it matter to you if these people are making money by playing video games?

is the salt speaking.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

Way to put down the community.

Also, you technically don't need to hunt down Melee and a Gamecube. There's Dolphin, Nintendont, DIOS MIOS, etc.

The problem with that is that it's illegal. You can get away with it so long as Nintendo doesn't hear about it, but for Nintendo to not hear about it, those things can't be present at big tournaments like EVO. Just look at Project M, Nintendo won't sponsor any tournament with PM because then they'd essentially be supporting pirating (which emulators and ROMs fall under). And if Nintendo can't sponsor for that reason, then no one else can sponsor a tournament that uses illegal equipment.

 

[Joeyd123]

If there is one reason Smash would get big is how exciting it is to watch. IMO Smash is the best video game to watch. I even like watching it better than some real sports like baseball or golf.

Its just so exciting compared to other eSports/ real sports. Like take Smash 4 at EVO for example. And I'm not saying Smash 4 is better to watch then melee. But I do enjoy the character diversity.

Back to my point, watching the Abadango vs. Dabuz set and seeing Dabuz about to take game 2, but then Wario bringing out the waft to get the stage spike kill and take the set. I was literally jumping out my seat and yelling. Hype like that can only be found in Smash. Which is what seperates it from other games

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

I have no logical reason why, but I just completely disagree with this.

 

[Jaedrik]

Dang.
The video got me.
Accessibility and consistency.
Edit: I'm not too sure on the consistency part, as someone below has pointed out how much LoL has changed over the years. It may be the rare exception for one reason or another.
Ne'er more truth was spoken.

 

[Kurri ★]

Skill Level for Smash> Spamming Click on a computer

Have you ever played a MOBA or RTS? You wouldn't say this if you had.

 

[toadster101]

Who cares if it's an "eSport" or not? It's a fun game with a large competitive following. And that's okay. It doesn't need to be anything more than that. I don't know why people are so desperate to compare games to each other.

 

[SDFox]

I defently agree with this, its all fact.

But it still deserves it more then any other game.

 

[Aguki90]

But I play league.

Dat game is not the same as year ago, many things has been changed like a lot.

My skanner jungler can't heal. They buff Cassipeia and have different Passive.

Look the new Fiora, she feel way different than before, Like a lot.

Smash change, League change even sports changed you know why.

Technology, that the real reason we changed. Oh, Money and Fans too.

 

[DidacticDad]

Logical assessment.

 

[Smearglangelo]

Well, he's right. We'll never get close to being as big as MOBAs like League of Legends. The same is true for all fighting games.

I'm still excited to see the continuing growth of competitive Smash Brothers.

 

[Unclesatan]

The problem with that is that it's illegal. You can get away with it so long as Nintendo doesn't hear about it, but for Nintendo to not hear about it, those things can't be present at big tournaments like EVO. Just look at Project M, Nintendo won't sponsor any tournament with PM because then they'd essentially be supporting pirating (which emulators and ROMs fall under). And if Nintendo can't sponsor for that reason, then no one else can sponsor a tournament that uses illegal equipment.

Lol there's hackless versions of pm you don't need to use an emulator or a Rom. If an sd card is legal, pm is legal

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I think this certainly points out the many flaws with the game series overall and I guess I agree with the idea that Melee will not expand much further unless some changes are made.

The only limitation in equipment is copies of the game. If anyone bothers to mention digital copies think again. There are no legal digital copies in existence.

On the issue of game changes this is not a problem either. It merely divides the potential player base between several routes of play. I have never played LoL, but I am going to wager that even the early verision of LoL is different enough from the LoL of today that people have to learn something new each time there is an update. However, other than Smash4 there are no updates for Smash64, Melee, or Brawl. Melee has gone some 10+ years without any changes which is something LoL cannot claim at all.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

100% agree as far as the payout and commentators are concerned. Giving just the top five moola is kind of dumb if we want to make this a true esport, as there really is no way to make a living off the game currently for 99% of "pro" players. The commentary really does need to change as well, which is why I like D1 and TKBreezy commentating together so much, TKB is really good at adding flare and personality while D1 generally remains collected and can explain what's going on. EE is another comentaror who I think could shine with a proper play-by-play partner, but he needs to work on not drowning them out first.

 

[HAMMER?]

Who cares? E-Sports is stupid. Nobody deserves to be making an income of 50k + a year playing video games.

Boo hoo the prize pool for Evo was only $11 000.00 (more money than I make in 2 months)

Take what you can get money wise out of playing video games, because if you really think you deserve to be paid big bucks for it, you're a sad person & you should get a real job.

F**k esports.

Melee has never been about the money. Ever. It's always been about the pride that comes with being #1.

So do you think professional athletes shouldn't be paid then?

 

[Swampyl]

If you went back in time 4 years and told a Melee player that their game would be anywhere near where it is now, they would call you crazy for the same reasons outlined in this video. I'm not buying it.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

Lol there's hackless versions of pm you don't need to use an emulator or a Rom. If an sd card is legal, pm is legal

That's not the problem I pointed out, though I understand the misunderstanding since I did mention PM. The problem I was talking about is the issue when using ROMs and Emulators, both are illegal, while modding is not (so long as you don't copy and distribute them in ROM form or sell the patch to change Brawl to PM). The reason this is a big problem is that access to legal disc copies of Melee and working Game Cubes and backwards compatible Wiis are growing more and more scarce, and using ROMs and Emulators as backups is still illegal, even if you own the game and console. This means that the ability for the Melee sub-community of Smash to continue to grow 'legally' is becoming harder.

 

[Phoenix502]

Accessibility and consistency...

Smash has always been one of those "easy to pick up, hard to master" in my mind. just watch the how-to-play videos in each, and that basically lets anyone jump in and fool around, so Accessibility isn't THAT big a problem until you dig deeper than just what the game tells you.

Consistency, however, I can understand people having a problem... Melee had more than ten years to develop its metagame, and almost nothing changed... it wouldn't be a stretch to suggest that players who have been around it during the earlier days would have difficulty in venturing out of their years old comfort zone.

I can't really comment about the League of Legends analogy, given that I'm not familiar with it... though I will point out that while a years old physical copy of Melee is harder to get ahold of, and League of Legends can presumably be acquired on the net... I don't see much of a comparison between the two games' gameplay, which is sort of what I thought when he was explaining accessibility...

 

[Unclesatan]

That's not the problem I pointed out, though I understand the misunderstanding since I did mention PM. The problem I was talking about is the issue when using ROMs and Emulators, both are illegal, while modding is not (so long as you don't copy and distribute them in ROM form or sell the patch to change Brawl to PM). The reason this is a big problem is that access to legal disc copies of Melee and working Game Cubes and backwards compatible Wiis are growing more and more scarce, and using ROMs and Emulators as backups is still illegal, even if you own the game and console. This means that the ability for the Melee sub-community of Smash to continue to grow 'legally' is becoming harder.

I still am failing to see why pm was mentioned at all within your post about roms and emulators, but I completely agree that it's nigh impossible to acquire a legal inexpensive way to play melee.

Brawl though? Super easy to find a cheap copy of brawl and a cheap Wii. Hardest part about playing pm is finding a Gc controller

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

a few things wrong

traditional sports have changes to them over time, although yes very slowly

league also changes and will keep changing over time -- new champions, and patch changes

Eventually there will be too many champions, since league has been cranking them out so hard in such a small amount of years

the changing thing isn't a huge deal, as long as the new game isn't too different, and that it's overall better (like how Melee was more of the same of 64 but improved on it and had a larger cast and better graphics and thus had a visual advantage both for players and spectators)

with a game like sc1 bw, it was able to grow huge over a decade, but look at league and how fast it grew in a few years? Thankfully the changing aspect isn't a huge huge thing. I'm sure we'd all be happy enough if a smash game was able to reach anywhere close to starcraft (at least several teams that can support 5-10 players each)

The biggest thing in the video is the accessibility. This is slightly hurt by how there are different smash games. But the biggest thing is that as a console game, it lacks so many features that help esports become esports. You can't log onto smash online and immediately enter a social area. You just play. League is huge because it's a social game and there's tons of rewards (skins, etc. that you can show off to others). Unless Smash can support this kind of thing, it will be heavily disadvantaged. Not everyone plays a game to be a competitive player. You need a huge casual base too, that's where the support and viewers come from. And that's a huge reason why people become good at a game too, so they can show off to their friends. League and to a lesser extent Starcraft have a huge social aspect compared to smash. Thankfully since smash IS a fun party game, it's not completely lacking in that aspect, and this is why I love smash and support it as THE fighting game. Just that having to play in person is still not as good as playing online behind your computer. (Unless you play online and use skype or something in smash... still not the same and takes more effort)

Also competitive smash (unless 2v2) is a solo player thing, which has proven to be largely disadvantaged compared to team games (starcraft vs dota and lol). To be accessible it has to be social, and it has to also make it comfortable playing for the lowest common denominator (meaning people who need to blame others and can't handle the stress of playing a competitive game and losing solo)

 

[Show Me Your Moves]

What's that logic? The major smashers makes their money through tournament winnings, streams, and sponsorships, all of which are perfectly sound methods of earning money. Why are you so worked up about it? Why does it matter to you if these people are making money by playing video games?

you can tell the dude's jealous when he mentioned that the prize pot of Evo was more then what he makes in two months.

 

[Kilfman]

Meh nintendo won't back their own game so it won't grow as big plain and simple. Hell, even capcom's holding a capcom cup with a prize pool of $250k. Street fighter is getting bigger and bigger because their company backs their game. Riot backs league and to an extent nether realm backs mortal kombat. I doubt nintendo will ever do that.Quite frankly smash 4 is horrible to watch unless underused character specialists via abadango appear. I don't even play melee and i found myself getting way more hype watching their sets.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Despite finding the concept to be cool, I don't see what's so "important" in being a eSport. If the game has a living and big scene, it can be considered as enough. Melee never needed to be a "eSport" to have a big scene and have exciting matches; it's now treated like one, but one can say the game is exciting in 2015 as it was 10 years ago in 2005.
Despite understanding next to nothing on LoL, DOTA and other major eSports, I believe those games shine on their own without being considered and treated as mainstream athletic sports. It's not like I don't want those games to be big: I want, but they don't need to be like that to be big competitive games.

 

[Tornado]

I pretty much agree with everything said in that video.
On the briefly discussed payout structure, that's one reason I would never travel any significant distance to a tournament. 1869 players for Smash Melee at EVO 2015 and 8 got paid (only 0.43%). 1st place at EVO got 60% of the prize. That's stupid on so many levels.

 

[Pee-Gcuatro20]

Who cares? E-Sports is stupid. Nobody deserves to be making an income of 50k + a year playing video games.

Boo hoo the prize pool for Evo was only $11 000.00 (more money than I make in 2 months)

Take what you can get money wise out of playing video games, because if you really think you deserve to be paid big bucks for it, you're a sad person & you should get a real job.

F**k esports.

Melee has never been about the money. Ever. It's always been about the pride that comes with being #1.

Everybody has a right to follow their dreams be it being a pro gamer, pro soccer player or astrophysicists. The fact that probably the first two get paid more than a "real" job is societies problem and beyond ones ability to change that.