Treesicle: Why Super Smash Bros Will Never Be A Major eSport

[LiteralGrill]

Ugh, more clickbait? This video was absolute nonsense. The only halfway reasonable argument presented was that Smash isn't as accessible as League.. Which only really applies to MELEE, since we have a brand-new Smash game out right now. Everything other argument that was presented was so full of holes I could use it to filter paint. Please, @ LiteralGrill , use some discretion when frontpaging something. One Omni is bad enough, there's no reason to get two. Or continue frontpaging the first one, now that I think about it.

I already made a comment very early on in the front page as to why this was put up. I have several and good reasons.

 

[Delta Chae]

I'm glad they mentioned the pathetic payout structure.

For the VAST majority of smash bros owners, they refuse to pay $10 to enter a tournament when they know there isn't a hope in hell of them ever getting a return on that. You tell them they need to go to tournaments to get better, they are going to have to go to like 20 before they get to a level when they can maybe place in the money if they're lucky, suddenly that's $200 spent on a game with exactly 0 guarantee of winning anything.

This is against League which is free.

And that is a very, very big deal. Smash bros has a truly gigantic install base with more players than SF4, Marvel, Tekken combined yet the scenes are tiny and that's because the average player is young, and the average young player doesn't have $200 to spend getting their *** handed to them in tournaments.

I still maintain the absolute best way for smash to grow in size, like 5x, is for tournaments to be free entry or at max, $2. Majors and regionals etc should still have entry fees so the pros can make it worth their time, you need like $5k prizes in regionals to get them to come. But for everything else, dropping the entry fee would make the game far more accessible.

I still remember in 2009, my city hosted a brawl tournament inside a convention with free entry and got 410 entrants in singles. Our monthly tournaments were never getting past about 22. In fact to this day even with smash 4 and melee being very popular, the most we have gotten yet is only 35 since that day. I tried my best to convince many of the players in 2009 to join the scene but it was the same every time, no one wanted to spend $10 to lose and go home.

If smash ever wants to grow to significant e-sports status, it needs far... far more players. 200k Evo stream viewers? No, we need 2 million before its taken seriously. By alienating the vast majority of players with exorbitant entry fees, you will never grow to that size.

The smash community literally just keeps on pushing new people away while deluding themselves into thinking 'it helps people get better'.

If Riot introduced a monthly subscription fee to the game, would they say it helps people get better? Of course bloody not, it would drive people away. So why is the smash community obsessed with charging high entry fees when it is clear as day, the biggest E-sports titles are free to enter tournaments? Cash entry fees are only an incentive to the top few % of players. to the other 98% of players, they push them away.

But I know things will never change, and people will continue to lie to themselves about why cash entry is important and smash will always be a niche market with its own tiny corner of the internet, forever in the shadow of games that welcome new players and don't push them away behind a paywall of entry fees merely to participate.

It's either that or no prize pot at all. League has the luxury of being backed by major sponsors that throw money at it like it's going out of style. Smash does not have that, Nintendo might be supporting Smash 4 as a competitive title but they are putting no money into the prize pots for tournaments. If a tournament has official backing from some company that's willing to throw money into the prize pot then we could run free entry but as it stands right now no entry fee means no prize pot.

You might not realize this but most of us do. If we want to keep having prize pots at tournaments we have to run entry fees and if you honestly think that $10 is a ridiculous amount for each tournament over the course of a Smash career then you're deluding yourself. If you're so poor that you can't afford to spend $10 for a tournament then you need to be doing something besides playing Smash. I love the game as much as anyone here but real life comes first, if I were to find myself in that situation I would take a break until I was able to get things stabilized before refocusing on Smash.

As for young players, the majority of young players are not competitive nor do they have any interest in being competitive. The majority of the competitive base is either late teens or early to mid 20s.

 

[Seal]

It's a Mario party game that has a sequence of fighting involved but a more Mario Party feeling around the whole game mechanics.

See you didn't fathom to brainstorm (not surprised) a little bit towards understanding why I wrote "there's more (but)" that means there are more small careless situations that play part towards Smash being anything bigger than a bunch of teenagers/somewhat adults or commentators smothering this "hype" around every individual that watches or listens to a Brawl match.

There is nothing "hype" they exaggerate small outcomes to manifest those outcomes into something so insane that not even women can't keep their pants up, did you notice how I "exaggerated" my metaphor there?

Well imagine or never-mind, imagine everyone else has to read or sigh in disbelief towards how annoying this community is. Even the FGC isn't this annoying like the Smash community is, for starters they don't yell from their hail-way door yelling "hype" another exaggeration, huh?

They honestly don't really make a big deal like the Smash community does, they are just gamer-s who play a traditional fighting game (which plays a huge role) almost all of them are adults (meh) and they treat the game like it is a big deal without enforcing words to be pushed somewhere in there so in other words (they show not say).

Doesn't matter how much people attend or try to "hype" anything up or the "get hype" cliches, Smash will continue to become a nobody in the FGC no matter what. Why?

It's not even a traditional fighting game to begin with, most of the players are infant based and it's Nintendo "a kid family based home entertainment system". Not only that but even adding Ryu to the Smash-4 roaster didn't cause any impact at all. Case closed.

Not only that but the community (not me involved as in the community) argues about which is better and which game is bad "Brawl's bad" "this game is slow". Should I continue, or do you have enough information from my perceptive side of this view? Thanks.

Can you drop the pretentious act and talk like a normal person? Your posts are all unnecessarily wordy and your paragraph responding to the phrase "dickweed" was so ****ing cringe worthy. I get that you want to show us how smart you thunk you are, but this is a forum on the internet, nobody cares. You're not better because you use bigger words.

Also your argument is still that smash will never be popular because it is different, because people like to get hype, and because it is made by Nintendo. Stop ****ing talking about mario party, that game is irrelevant. Just because two games are made by the same company doesn't mean they are the same. Also, what kind of uptight asshole gets upset that people like to get hype? Loosen up, you'll find life much more enjoyable.

 

[Browny]

You might not realize this but most of us do. If we want to keep having prize pots at tournaments we have to run entry fees

Here lies the core mentality problem, and its a distinctly western thing.

You don't NEED to have a prize pot!

Japan has no prize pot. Nothing. Not one single cent. Has that changed anything? They are still top players, train super hard and take out some of USA's best players and not once have they ever had to pay to enter a tournament in Japan. Not to mention they won USF4 and probably other events I dont care about.

People keep thinking that you need prize pots to drive up competition, to give incentives for people to practice more, to increase everyone's skill. That is a complete delusion and the entire nation of Japan proves that theory dead wrong. There are no sponsors there or corporate backers of events, its a completely money-free event.

Try to debate my points without making assumptions about how 'poor' I am since thats funny, as I have travelled all over my country and flown to USA for smash events. I can afford $10, but that alone makes me a minority, most smash players simply cant afford $10 every few weeks for years on end.

 

[Banana Creem]

I honestly don't really want Smash to be a major eSport. The reason I love the tournament scene so much is because it's grassroots, and I think a lot of smashers would agree with me (but I can't be too sure). I don't know. Smash feels so much more to me like a second home as grassroots. When it becomes something major it's just like any other sport, except no one can really understand it (unless you were already smasher). Smash just wouldn't be the same as a major eSport. There's a reason Smash is so much different than any other competitive game, why there is nothing like it. It's because Smash, in a way, was simply made by smashers. We should never lose sight of that. As soon as we do, we forget why we play Smash.

 

[manrangan]

But not from the sale of the game. They could just as easily sponsor tournaments that feature pirated versions of the game because they won't profit from selling the games anymore. It's not like buying Melee off of Ebay or from the discount bin at Gamestop is going to give them any profit. They get money, the game becomes more accessible, everybody's happy.

Of course pirated copies of Smash 4 (do those even exist yet?) should be stopped immediately. *Maybe* Brawl, idk if copies of those are still being sold.

It all just boils down to the fact that piracy is illegal, end of story.

 

[Delta Chae]

Here lies the core mentality problem, and its a distinctly western thing.

You don't NEED to have a prize pot!

Japan has no prize pot. Nothing. Not one single cent. Has that changed anything? They are still top players, train super hard and take out some of USA's best players and not once have they ever had to pay to enter a tournament in Japan. Not to mention they won USF4 and probably other events I dont care about.

People keep thinking that you need prize pots to drive up competition, to give incentives for people to practice more, to increase everyone's skill. That is a complete delusion and the entire nation of Japan proves that theory dead wrong. There are no sponsors there or corporate backers of events, its a completely money-free event.

Try to debate my points without making assumptions about how 'poor' I am since thats funny, as I have travelled all over my country and flown to USA for smash events. I can afford $10, but that alone makes me a minority, most smash players simply cant afford $10 every few weeks for years on end.

Understand that Japanese players have a vastly different mentality than western players. First of all, running prize pots in Japan is flat out illegal. Secondly, Japanese players play more for the sake of optimizing the game rather than winning as most western players do. Never bring up arguments like that unless you understand the "why?" behind it. The problem Smash has is something that exists in all competitive fighting games, the level of execution scares off many new players.

Also consider that the Japanese place more emphasis on sportsmanship than winning. It's the opposite in the west, in the west you'll usually be tolerated as long as your not being a complete and utter douche and most western players place first priority on winning. Many of things you see players doing in the U.S and Europe would not be tolerated in Japan, such things include but are not limited to: trash talking, quitting a match when you're about to lose your last stock, and cheering for a player when you're a spectator.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

The big reason Smash will never be a major eSport is because Nintendo doesn't want it to be.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

The problem Smash has is something that exists in all competitive fighting games, the level of execution scares off many new players.

Smash 4 has a level of execution worthy of scaring off new players? No.

 

[Delta Chae]

Smash 4 has a level of execution worthy of scaring off new players? No.

That was a general statement. Even then some new players might look at ZeRo playing and be scared of it. Their fears would be entirely unjustified but it could happen.

 

[Mr. Cuddles]

Skill Level for Smash> Spamming Click on a computer

um have u played lol or any online game? i promise that if u spam click not only will u lose u will probably be reported

 

[Tankster]

It's probably going to be a while before one of the Smash games can make it to eSports if possible. I view this article as a "what-if", but this article shouldn't be taken too personally. Besides, Smash has its own story, and it is still being written as of today. It's not like many would care about it at the moment since the community is growing as we speak.

If that's something that Smashboards wants to do then cool, we all have to advertise this website. Besides, we already have a potential game that could make it into eSports *hint hint*

 

[SHiFT_]

Why do people still associate Melee with the other Smash games?

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

Why do people still associate Melee with the other Smash games?

....because it's a Smash game?

 

[ShadowKing]

I believe smash would be a great addition

 

[Dapplegonger]

It all just boils down to the fact that piracy is illegal, end of story.

I think we just went full circle. My original comments on this were about why I thought the anti-piracy raid against old games that can no longer be purchased in a way that benefits Nintendo was silly. I sort of understand it, it seems arbitrary to disallow pirated versions of some games but not others. But it's just annoying.

 

[Railz]

lol m2k

 

[Fire_Voyager]

I love YouTube videos that get popular and are largely unsubstantiated clickbait, and then people treat them like gospel.

Not that I disagree with the statement that Smash can't be as big as League. But it certainly can still be major. Basketball isn't nearly as popular as Football (or "SACCCAR" to you 'muricans), doesn't mean it isn't considered a major sport.

Or Tennis... I think Smash is more like Tennis, you need to have some specific tools to play it, not just a Ball (PC) and a Mouse (Shoes)... and is played in Single and Duble in 3 Stages (Grass, Clay and Concrete)... not everyone is good for it, but it still is a geat sport...

 

[manrangan]

I think we just went full circle. My original comments on this were about why I thought the anti-piracy raid against old games that can no longer be purchased in a way that benefits Nintendo was silly. I sort of understand it, it seems arbitrary to disallow pirated versions of some games but not others. But it's just annoying.

I get where you're coming from, and I'm not going to act like I'm pure and innocent and don't pirate things, lol. I usually do because I'm too poor, but because piracy is illegal, the tournament scene will have to rely on their GameCubes and Wiis until we get a VC release of Melee.

 

[Phaiyte]

Who cares? E-Sports is stupid. Nobody deserves to be making an income of 50k + a year playing video games.

Boo hoo the prize pool for Evo was only $11 000.00 (more money than I make in 2 months)

Take what you can get money wise out of playing video games, because if you really think you deserve to be paid big bucks for it, you're a sad person & you should get a real job.

F**k esports.

Melee has never been about the money. Ever. It's always been about the pride that comes with being #1.

Someone's never heard of ad revenue before. You don't like thinking very much, do you?

 

[H.O.U.S.E.]

Well there is the Dolphin emulator as a slight answer to accessibility, but you need a decent enough computer/laptop and you need to learn how to install Melee and even Project M in it if you want. It make it more accessible and I'm not sure if it is bad or good since it gives people the option to play Melee online but you need an adapter to play with gamecube controllers and it probably is illegal or something.

 

[Mr. Oshawott]

Also consider that the Japanese place more emphasis on sportsmanship than winning.

...which is what the U.S. Competitive Smash Community should be trying their hardest to encourage instead of the insults and bullying that often occur around here and in the Tournaments.

 

[SHiFT_]

...which is what the U.S. Competitive Smash Community should be trying their hardest to encourage instead of the insults and bullying that often occur around here and in the Tournaments.

I'm gonna need some Evidence.zip for this claim.

 

[Delta Chae]

...which is what the U.S. Competitive Smash Community should be trying their hardest to encourage instead of the insults and bullying that often occur around here and in the Tournaments.

I don't mind the fact that the U.S places more emphasis on winning than sportsmanship. When you have a problem is when it's taken too far. I find a little trash talk before a match to be perfectly fine and even somewhat encouraging but afterward, especially if you delivered a particularly embarrassing loss to your opponent, don't kick someone while they're down, shake hands and move on. Usually however it stays in check and people that take it too far are normally dealt with properly.

 

[Anuran]

Smash cant be successful because it is always changing, just be more like league that literally patches every two weeks

 

[Browny]

Understand that Japanese players have a vastly different mentality than western players. First of all, running prize pots in Japan is flat out illegal. Secondly, Japanese players play more for the sake of optimizing the game rather than winning as most western players do. Never bring up arguments like that unless you understand the "why?" behind it. The problem Smash has is something that exists in all competitive fighting games, the level of execution scares off many new players.

Also consider that the Japanese place more emphasis on sportsmanship than winning. It's the opposite in the west, in the west you'll usually be tolerated as long as your not being a complete and utter douche and most western players place first priority on winning. Many of things you see players doing in the U.S and Europe would not be tolerated in Japan, such things include but are not limited to: trash talking, quitting a match when you're about to lose your last stock, and cheering for a player when you're a spectator.

That has literally nothing to do with anything I said.

I know exactly why Japanese people dont pay for tournaments and that it is illegal, but its not against what I said and neither is certain playstyles.

It goes like this;

- People complain that smash will never be E-sports
- I claim that a reason because of this is the insignificant amount of tournament players, you need 5-10x more players to be a viable E-sports game. To do this, scrap high entry fees to encourage new players to stay in the scene.
- People claim that entry fees are necessary to keep pros playing, and that the overall skill of the players increases with cash incentive
- I state that Japan plays with no entry fees and has pros playing for the long run and they are of comparable skill to USAs best.

There are 2 claims there, and 1 fact.

The counter to my original claim is disproven by the fact of Japanese not playing for money. Why they dont play for money is irrelevant, the argument was if cash increases the skill of the scene.

Therefore, my original claim is still unchallenged.

I have personal evidence that scrapping entry fees results in a gigantic boost to entry numbers at tournaments. The only counter to my claim would be some sort of proof of the amount of entrants a typical event gets with 0 and a $10 entry fee, or how many pro players would quit if cash entry was scrapped on locals.

 

[incrediblej]

I don't get why a game "cant be competitive" I think it's annoying when someone says this smash isn't competitive because its slow or it doesn't require as much skill competitive means that people are trying to show that they are better than others at that game sport or whatever. All the things the people saying sm4sh or brawl can't be competitive because it's to slow is stupid what makes it competitive or not, it should be how many are willing to put time into the game to be competitive. Speed or tech skill has nothing with the game being competitive people should just stop complaining about the other games for something like being fast, high skill roof or competitive, if the game is fun it's good, if it's bad and let's use it for my example even though it's unrelated sonic 06 that's when a game is not good when you can't enjoy a game the way it was supposed to be enjoyed

Please no unreasonable arguments and whatnot

 

[Takehiko]

Debunks:
Accessibility- Smash is accessible due to the fact that it's considered a fighter that people can easily pick up. All of the Smash games only scale in higher forms when you start to add ATs and the competitive mindset.

Further, hardware is easy to find. Gamecubes/Emus/Wii's = Melee
Wii= PM (If a person can DL and Install LoL, they can work PM)
WiiU Smash4

And if you can't find those, you can go over a friend's house and try it out.

Not to mention, A GAMECUBE CONTROLLER WORKS ON ALL 3 GAMES. That's what doesn't change.

Someones going to be able to find one of those technologies.

Consistancy-
When I've play smash over the years, I've never seen health bars (Unless stamina). I've never seen it where you don't have to knock them off the board into a blast zone. So what is he talking about?

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

I don't get why a game "cant be competitive" I think it's annoying when someone says this smash isn't competitive because its slow or it doesn't require as much skill competitive means that people are trying to show that they are better than others at that game sport or whatever. All the things the people saying sm4sh or brawl can't be competitive because it's to slow is stupid what makes it competitive or not, it should be how many are willing to put time into the game to be competitive. Speed or tech skill has nothing with the game being competitive people should just stop complaining about the other games for something like being fast, high skill roof or competitive, if the game is fun it's good, if it's bad and let's use it for my example even though it's unrelated sonic 06 that's when a game is not good when you can't enjoy a game the way it was supposed to be enjoyed

Please no unreasonable arguments and whatnot

So by your definition of what makes a game competitive, pretty much every game can be competitive. Does that mean that every game is right for competitive play? No. What decides if the game is right for high level competitive play is decided in the game itself. A game with a lack of depth isn't going to get a good competitive scene, and a game featuring stupid stuff that can affect the outcome of a match *cough* Brawl *cough* isn't going to have a long lasting competitive scene either. People putting time into a game competitively does not = good competitive game.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

You can literally apply this to anything. Doesn't make it OK though.

A lot of people who don't care about games like League perceive League players to be a bunch of fat nerds with loads of acne all over their faces who have no lives, who play League because levelling up their Paladin is their greatest purpose in life.

A lot of people who don't play soccer would perceive soccer players to be a bunch of overpaid pansies who act like tripping on some grass is like taking a bullet to the knee, and that there is nothing exciting or hype about watching a leather ball be kicked around by a few young men, answering to the natural laws of gravity.

Just because you don't enjoy something on the same level as others, doesn't mean it invalidates the enjoyment they have, nor does it make it OK to generalise. Go raibh maith agat.

Okay a comment I respond to that doesn't involve "autism". I do appreciate the self control as well man. That is fine I'm not against Smash, in-fact, I support Smash more than Street Fighter, but that mean anything to the FGC as they wont accept Smash as it is.

That's where I'm heading as in I don't care what other people think about Smash I'll just keep playing the games and enjoy the games. Yet others believe that can change (the dreamers), so what makes them think this game is any different (it isn't) it's the same game no other FGC cares about in general.

I face reality as in (I'm not a dreamer) I calculate what must be done, when I do have some sort of an idea, then that's when I start to "dream". I used small words since it's a big deal and cut down on my syntax and compound words. Thanks.

 

[UhOhSpaghettiOs]

It all depends on whee the smash games go from here. It's a shame to admit, but as an eSport, Smash won't survive on Melee alone. We could do with another competitive orientated Smash (heck, even a HD Melee would do) because the Gamecube is hardly an easily accessible console for the mass market to purchase and Melee isn't accessible either. I'm not even taking controllers and those red, yellow and white video output cables (I think they were called SCART cables) into account. A PC, on the other hand, is in many houses anyway, which is a major factor to League of Legends' success as an eSport.

 

[Delta Chae]

That has literally nothing to do with anything I said.

I know exactly why Japanese people dont pay for tournaments and that it is illegal, but its not against what I said and neither is certain playstyles.

It goes like this;

- People complain that smash will never be E-sports
- I claim that a reason because of this is the insignificant amount of tournament players, you need 5-10x more players to be a viable E-sports game. To do this, scrap high entry fees to encourage new players to stay in the scene.
- People claim that entry fees are necessary to keep pros playing, and that the overall skill of the players increases with cash incentive
- I state that Japan plays with no entry fees and has pros playing for the long run and they are of comparable skill to USAs best.

There are 2 claims there, and 1 fact.

The counter to my original claim is disproven by the fact of Japanese not playing for money. Why they dont play for money is irrelevant, the argument was if cash increases the skill of the scene.

Therefore, my original claim is still unchallenged.

I have personal evidence that scrapping entry fees results in a gigantic boost to entry numbers at tournaments. The only counter to my claim would be some sort of proof of the amount of entrants a typical event gets with 0 and a $10 entry fee, or how many pro players would quit if cash entry was scrapped on locals.

It's completely relevant. The Japanese are less likely to care if they get some sort of return on investment for winning a tournament, this also has a lot to do with the huge difference in cultural customs between the western world and Japan. A lot of western players with that "play to win" mentality do, not everyone does obviously but there are people out there that are like that. I really don't like it when people say "this works for X country so of course it'll work here" that's almost never true in any case.

You also need to understand that a lot of locals don't run entry fess or run entry fees of $5 or lower but they still need to run venue fees to pay for the venue, venue fees are typically around $5. One of the few times you don't see venue fees is when the event is being held on a college campus by a student organization. Again, you're acting like $10 is a huge deal but most tournamentgoers are not people who aspire to win Evo or Apex, but people that go to a local once or twice a month. You'll see $10 entry fees at regionals and nationals, and understand that the entry fee for such events is far from the only thing you have to pay, in fact it's usually the cheapest thing you have to pay for, that doesn't take into account travel costs, whether or not you'll be required to buy some sort of pass to get into the venue in the first place, hotel costs, etc. You're also forgetting that with a few exceptions, the Japanese typically don't place as well as U.S players in Smash tournaments so that doesn't help your case. aMSa is pretty much the only Japanese player with good international tournament results in Melee's Platinum Age and it can be argued that he only does well because people lack knowledge of the Yoshi matchup.

 

[OGTYX]

Way to put down the community.

Also, you technically don't need to hunt down Melee and a Gamecube. There's Dolphin, Nintendont, DIOS MIOS, etc.

Which is even less accessible then just buying the game.

 

[incrediblej]

So by your definition of what makes a game competitive, pretty much every game can be competitive. Does that mean that every game is right for competitive play? No. What decides if the game is right for high level competitive play is decided in the game itself. A game with a lack of depth isn't going to get a good competitive scene, and a game featuring stupid stuff that can affect the outcome of a match *cough* Brawl *cough* isn't going to have a long lasting competitive scene either. People putting time into a game competitively does not = good competitive game.

OK I worded everything weird but basically isn't just that, but what you said does contribute to its popularity in high level play but I'm aiming this to the people who bash on a game thats just as popular in competitive play then you shouldnt complain, if people are willing to put time and money into it and enough people participate then you don't need to bash or worry about how the game is if people do it competitively then don't complain about a games mechanics and stuff just leave it alone. It's like religious people complaining about gay marriage being legal it doesn't affect them so they shouldn't complain but they still do

 

[CptJPuff]

Which is even less accessible then just buying the game.

As long as there's internet and a computer in one's home, it's just a Google search away.

 

[Iceweasel]

As long as there's internet and a computer in one's home, it's just a Google search away.

You'd be amazed at the number of idiots incapable of figuring out this simple fact. Too many people somehow lack the ability to type words into a box and press enter. I worry about our species' future sometimes.

Though in fairness, DIOS MIOS doesn't work very well. It has a bunch of minor glitches throughout, and crashes quite a lot. In addition, since it replaces your normal MIOS (the program used by the Wii to handle Gamecube disks, memory cards, and maybe controllers, I forgot), it means that you have to deal with similar issues when loading a purchased game instead of loading from a USB drive. I ended up restoring a backup just a few days after installing it, since there are so few games (if any) that run well on it.

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

Consistency? Look at all of the fighting games like Tekken and Streetfighter and Marvel Vs Whatever. How many sequels? And League gets nerfs/buffs that change the flow of the game too.

 

[cheesemonk66]

While the changing dynamic of smash is an issue for the game, lots of sports had changes to rules and play this early in their lives. Its not really fair to compare to football/soccer because its been around for a very small fraction of the time. In a sport like baseball rules had to be adjusted as materials that bats were made out of changed and innovated with time. I personally don't think smash will ever be major, but looking at the Olympics there are lots of sports that many wouldn't consider major that take place there such as dresage or curling. I'm only saying the video makes unfair comparisons with actual sports. I hope the smash community can evolve and become larger because that means more enjoyment for all of the community.

 

[XOSugar]

This is the problem with big developers versus small ones. If you want an easy to access game, you have the make your own game. That is what League did.

Every time I say this, some smart ass chimes in, "What is PM". That's not your own game. That's just messing with the physics of an existing game. I mean your own game, with your own characters, and your own mechanics. Implement things that came from the competitive smash scene into the game, like stage banning, set counts, etc.

 

[Manta]

When I've play smash over the years, I've never seen health bars (Unless stamina). I've never seen it where you don't have to knock them off the board into a blast zone. So what is he talking about?

But every game has it's quirks, Melee had wavedshing, L-cancelling etc. which got embedded into its meta. Brawl.... well let's not get into that. Sm4sh has customs and very different physics from Melee and (to a lesser extent) Brawl.