Translated Sakurai Famitsu Interview

[ChikoLad]

This may be unlikely (and not an acceptable excuse or reason), but it's possible that some of the sword move ideas that Sakurai implemented into the Mii Fighter moveset took away from Chrom's ability to be unique.

Just food for thought.

But Chrom could have had his own abilities altogether, with different weapons, like a lance.

 

[κomıc]

It feels like over half the people in this thread are not reading the article correctly or any thread replies, and are just assuming Lucina took the place of Chrom when it was Robin who took Chrom's place. How many times does it have to be said that Lucina started out as an alt for Marth mid development and was then changed into her own character? Then there are the claims of Sakurai being lazy. Is all the other work the man put into the game going to be ignored JUST because of Lucina's situation? Do the 30+ characters with completely unique movesets not matter anymore because of Lucina? I'm pretty sure it would have been much easier to just keep her as an alt than to take the extra time to give her a slot with minor differences.

Lucina did take Chrom's place. That is the implication reading. Chrom was considered. I think Robin was always on the cards for a unique character from the series and it came down to Chrom or Lucina- the latter considered to be a alternate costume. I read this article earlier before coming here to talk about it. To me, it does sound like laziness because they could have totally made a new moveset for Chrom or Lucina. I really like Sakurai, but let's not beat around the bush- he contradicts himself in this interview.

I'm not really mad but disappointed because of how they decided to include Chrom and Lucina. They ruled Chrom out for being too similar to Marth and Ike and instead went for Lucina to make her an easier to learn version of Marth. It is silly really. They might as well have not added Lucina or considered Chrom if Robin was to supposedly take the place (where in no way does it imply Robin took Chrom's spot). I honestly believe he went for Lucina to add another female to the roster (which isn't a bad thing in any case) because Chrom would be another blue haired dude standing side by side with Marth and Ike.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly think they are just as bad, especially since Dr. Mario is literally Mario beyond just being a clone moveset wise (and was therefore should have been an alt costume for Mario). Not to mention that the game tells you his speed is slower than Mario's, even though he isn't.

Dr. Mario himself may not be slower, but a lot of his attacks are.
But that's beside the point.
From what we have seen, Lucina's only differences to Marth are that her sword has equal strength throughout the blade whereas Marth has a sweetspot in the tip of his blade and a sourspot everywhere else. Outside of that, her moves appear to be the same in function and appearance, which even Dr. Mario managed to differentiate from Mario. (There's a reason why Dr. Mario is 5 spaces higher up on the tier list than Mario and not merely right next to him)
Hell, she even uses Marth's fighting stance and idle poses. Not even Dr. Mario did that.

Aside from that, if Toon Link is acceptable, Dr. Mario is. He comes from a separate canon to the Mario franchise, anyway.

People are aware of that, it's just that a lot of Sakurai's claims regarding the two are contradictory.

Regardless of who took the place of who, saying "Chrom would just be a generic swordfighter", when Lucina is just that, is bull.

It's not a contradiction.
Lucina wasn't meant to be her own character in the first place. The only reason she is one is because of a last-minute decision based on variables between her and Marth skewing with character records.
For all intents and purposes, she's a specialized Marth alt that happens to have her own data.

 

[Shotguner159]

(where in no way does it imply Robin took Chrom's spot)..

"At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.
Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!"

Conversely is the key word there.

 

[Deleted member]

Conversely means introducing a statement or idea that reverses one that has just been made or referred to.

The word has nothing to do with replacement. In fact, that statement can be simplified as "Chrom lacked unique characteristics compared to other characters, but Robin offered a unique style that was easy to envision and just made sense."

 

[Shotguner159]

Yup. Conversely's only the key word in relation to "(where in no way does it imply Robin took Chrom's spot)". Robin's uniqueness is brought up right after Chrom's sameness, and conversely implies the two things are related. I think. Actually it's probably not even the key word at all. Being English doesn't actually mean I can speak English properly, or express myself clearly through text.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think it is a little sexist to say that a blue-haired swordsWOMAN is somehow more unique and diverse than a third blue-haired swordsMAN just because she's a woman. Sex and gender are not relevant to a character's moveset potential.

I also think it is a little nonsensical to say that a blue-haired swordswoman is somehow more unique and diverse than a third blue-haired swordsman when said swordswoman is practically an identical clone of a blue-haired swordsman.

In the context of Super Smash Bros., Lucina is nothing more than a glorified female Marth costume without a sword tipper. If having no sword tipper is all that takes to differentiate Lucina from Marth... then I guess that giving Chrom a sword tipper should be more than enough to differentiate him from Ike.

 

[Ghirahilda]

We are still discussing why Lucina was chosen over Chrom and why everyone is revolted? Seriously? 5 pages for this? I think @ TeaTwoTime already answered this question on the first page of this thread and people are STILL arguing with this??? This should be moved to a Lucina forum since we are re-arguing the same thing in a infinite cycle...

Lucina is more popular, is female and is visually less similar than Chrom is to Marth or Ike for those reasons. She's also an obvious choice for a Marth alt because of her role within FE:Awakening (posing as Marth). In any case, it was never a matter of "Chrom or Lucina"; it was "Chrom or Robin" and Robin was the obvious choice. Lucina was always going to be in the game; it's only her status as a costume or a character with slight differences that was changed.

 

[ChikoLad]

Dr. Mario himself may not be slower, but a lot of his attacks are.
But that's beside the point.
From what we have seen, Lucina's only differences to Marth are that her sword has equal strength throughout the blade whereas Marth has a sweetspot in the tip of his blade and a sourspot everywhere else. Outside of that, her moves appear to be the same in function and appearance, which even Dr. Mario managed to differentiate from Mario. (There's a reason why Dr. Mario is 5 spaces higher up on the tier list than Mario and not merely right next to him)
Hell, she even uses Marth's fighting stance and idle poses. Not even Dr. Mario did that.

Aside from that, if Toon Link is acceptable, Dr. Mario is. He comes from a separate canon to the Mario franchise, anyway.


It's not a contradiction.
Lucina wasn't meant to be her own character in the first place. The only reason she is one is because of a last-minute decision based on variables between her and Marth skewing with character records.
For all intents and purposes, she's a specialized Marth alt that happens to have her own data.

Still, Dr. Mario being "slower and more powerful attacks than Mario" isn't really any better than what Lucina is, especially since Dr. Mario is still just Mario and had NO EXCUSE to be his own slot as opposed to a costume (and if they couldn't make him a costume then there was no need to make him a character to begin with). I can at least give Lucina the fact that she is canonically a different person to Marth and has a distinct fan base to appease to (even though her inclusion in her own slot comes off as shameless pandering), but Dr. Mario is still Mario and his fans are already acknowledged with regular Mario.

And Toon Link is canonically a different person to Link, and was WAY more different to Link than Dr. Mario was to Mario (Toon Link has an entirely different meta game than Link, while Dr. Mario is really just Mario with a buff in strength).

Yeah, we have ZSS, but I cut her some slack since she originated as a transformation mechanic in Brawl (rather than her own slot), so giving her a slot in Smash 4 is only a compromise due to transformations being a cut mechanic, plus, Metroid doesn't have too many well known characters besides Samus and Ridley. And her moveset is completely different.

And I meant Sakurai contradicted himself because he implied that generic sword users are something that he dislikes, yet he threw Lucina in her own slot.

I think it is a little sexist to say that a blue-haired swordsWOMAN is somehow more unique and diverse than a third blue-haired swordsMAN just because she's a woman. Sex and gender are not relevant to a character's moveset potential.

This is what bugs me the most about her, and her fans.

Everyone goes on about how "OH SHES SO GREAT SHES A FEMALE SWORDFIGHTER #GURLPOWER4SMASH4".

I may be a straight white male who needs to check their privilege and all that horse crap, so maybe my opinion is irrelevant - but I don't want more females in Smash BECAUSE they are female. I want them because contrary to popular believe, Nintendo actually has some really well written and powerful females, that vary from the male Nintendo characters.

Rosalina, Palutena and Wii Fit Trainer, for example, get this across in their respective trailers and someone who doesn't know much about these characters could easily see what makes them distinct and respectable females. But as someone who doesn't know much about Lucina in her own game, her portrayal in Smash isn't selling the character to me, as all I'm seeing is Femarth.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

The argument that Sakurai is contradicting himself is getting on my nerves a little. So much of what's been said in the last few pages is misguided or misinterpreting what's been done. I've also explained this about 10 times across a few threads but I guess it either gets buried and missed or people don't read.

Sakurai never said that Lucina was a unique swordfighter and Chrom wasn't. Lucina was literally designed to be the exact same as Marth. She was a costume; not a character put in because of her unique moveset potential. The only thing that changed was that instead of going to Marth's slot to select her, you'll now go to Lucina's slot, and her sword will behave differently. Is this really so problematic? It allows for an alternative playstyle and makes her more convenient to select. I don't see why people would complain about this. It's made many Lucina fans very happy to see her become a legitimate part of the roster.

Chrom was not scrapped in lieu of Lucina. Chrom was scrapped in lieu of Robin, who is the more unique of the two. I really don't think this can argued against. Chrom is a male, blue-haired swordfighter (which would make him the third such fighter) with a signature sword that he would have to weild in Smash due to it being a defining part of his character (this is why giving him lances wouldn't work) and Robin is something that hasn't been done before in Smash. A "spellsword" is also an archetype that has been requested several times for Smash and Robin fit the bill perfectly.

As for why Lucina was picked as an alt for Marth and not Chrom, there are several reasons and each of them makes sense and isn't contradictory or hypocritical. Firstly, Lucina is the most popular character from FE:A. Secondly, she's female and a female FE rep was requested by a lot of people, and also just makes sense - having 4 male reps without a female from a series with a LOT of popular females could run the risk of being controversial. It is not sexist for the fact that she is female to be a contributing factor in her inclusion. Thirdly, her role within FE:A is perfectly consistent with her inclusion as an alternative costume as she poses as Marth in-game. Lastly, she's also physically more similar to Marth than Chrom is in terms of build. There may be other reasons I'm not thinking of.

I think that's everything...
tl;dr: read the bolded sections.

 

[Shotguner159]

Everyone goes on about how "OH SHES SO GREAT SHES A FEMALE SWORDFIGHTER #GURLPOWER4SMASH4".

I may be a straight white male who needs to check their privilege and all that horse crap, so maybe my opinion is irrelevant - but I don't want more females in Smash BECAUSE they are female. I want them because contrary to popular believe, Nintendo actually has some really well written and powerful females, that vary from the male Nintendo characters.

Rosalina, Palutena and Wii Fit Trainer, for example, get this across in their respective trailers and someone who doesn't know much about these characters could easily see what makes them distinct and respectable females. But as someone who doesn't know much about Lucina in her own game, her portrayal in Smash isn't selling the character to me, as all I'm seeing is Femarth.

Please don't lump all of us in together. I'm not like that, and I'm fairly sure others aren't either.

For me, personally, Lucina's a great addition to Smash because it gives her fans something to enjoy, it gives people who like Marth's moveset but aren't good at the spacing a chance to do it, and it cost barely any development time, so nothing was harmed by her inclusion. She is well written and powerful in Awakening and isn't just Female Marth, as he

Spoiler

probably wouldn't even consider trying to kill his dad's best friend to save the world,

but her Smash portrayal isn't getting that across well.

 

[Krysco]

I'm okay with Lucina's inclusion and might actually use her since she's an easy-to-use Marth. I also don't care about Chrom not being a playable character. However I can see the problem others have with Lucina.

Chrom wasn't put in because he would be just 'another plain old swordsman' while Lucina was at first considered to be an alt but then became a Marth clone (in other words, a plain old swordswoman). They could have easily kept Lucina as an alt and either give her moveset to Chrom or give Chrom a new moveset (to be fair, there's only so much one can do with a sword). To say Chrom would be a plain old swordsman and also adding Lucina as a plain old swordswoman can be looked at as a contradiction. The interview doesn't say Lucina was picked over Chrom but it does say Chrom would be plain but Lucina the clone is allowed. I honestly think Lucina only got in because of her gender. Sure she's popular but so is Chrom, not as much but still and Lucina could easily just be made into a clone.

Again, I'm fine with Lucina's inclusion and Chrom's lack of inclusion but I do see what makes some people unhappy about it.

 

[ChikoLad]

Sakurai never said that Lucina was a unique swordfighter and Chrom wasn't. Lucina was literally designed to be the exact same as Marth. She was a costume; not a character put in because of her unique moveset potential.

But not including Chrom as an alt/clone too (could easily be an Ike alt/clone - just make him a bit faster and change up his specials a bit - a lot of people assumed Ike would be cut because Chrom would replace him with a similar moveset, after all) while including Lucina as a clone, only to then say "Chrom would be too generic" and then also say "I don't make the fighters very similar" all builds up to what is clearly a biased reasoning for not including Chrom as a fighter, yet still including Lucina. And don't give me "but she already had a model", Chrom clearly did too, he's part of Robin's Final Smash (he was ALWAYS going to be a trophy at least). And if Chrom wasn't a part of Robin's Final Smash, other FE:A characters could have been in his stead, meaning more characters for FE:A fans to have.

Please don't lump all of us in together. I'm not like that, and I'm fairly sure others aren't either.

For me, personally, Lucina's a great addition to Smash because it gives her fans something to enjoy, it gives people who like Marth's moveset but aren't good at the spacing a chance to do it, and it cost barely any development time, so nothing was harmed by her inclusion. She is well written and powerful in Awakening and isn't just Female Marth, as he

Spoiler

probably wouldn't even consider trying to kill his dad's best friend to save the world,

but her Smash portrayal isn't getting that across well.

When I say "all of her fans", I speak figuratively. If you don't feel you are one of those people, then you don't need to point it out, I'm just referring to a very far reaching viewpoint.

And sorry, but I don't agree with making clone characters that take away the interesting niche of another character for the sake of pandering to their niche fan base and making that character easier to play as, especially now that we have custom movesets and stat changing equipment in the game, which allow to drastically change a character's properties.

And while she may not just be Femarth in Awakening, if her Smash portrayal isn't going to represent the actual character properly, why put her in at all?

 

[LeeYawshee]

This may be unlikely (and not an acceptable excuse or reason), but it's possible that some of the sword move ideas that Sakurai implemented into the Mii Fighter moveset took away from Chrom's ability to be unique.

Just food for thought.

The Mii Fighter takes all sort of sword moves from characters, Chrom could have been in the game with his own moveset and Mii Fighter would have taken some of his moves as well. Also, the Mii Swordsman has more than just sword techniques which Sakurai insists Chrom is.

The argument that Sakurai is contradicting himself is getting on my nerves a little. So much of what's been said in the last few pages is misguided or misinterpreting what's been done. I've also explained this about 10 times across a few threads but I guess it either gets buried and missed or people don't read.

Sakurai never said that Lucina was a unique swordfighter and Chrom wasn't. Lucina was literally designed to be the exact same as Marth. She was a costume; not a character put in because of her unique moveset potential. The only thing that changed was that instead of going to Marth's slot to select her, you'll now go to Lucina's slot, and her sword will behave differently. Is this really so problematic? It allows for an alternative playstyle and makes her more convenient to select. I don't see why people would complain about this. It's made many Lucina fans very happy to see her become a legitimate part of the roster.

Chrom was not scrapped in lieu of Lucina. Chrom was scrapped in lieu of Robin, who is the more unique of the two. I really don't think this can argued against. Chrom is a male, blue-haired swordfighter (which would make him the third such fighter) with a signature sword that he would have to weild in Smash due to it being a defining part of his character (this is why giving him lances wouldn't work) and Robin is something that hasn't been done before in Smash. A "spellsword" is also an archetype that has been requested several times for Smash and Robin fit the bill perfectly.

As for why Lucina was picked as an alt for Marth and not Chrom, there are several reasons and each of them makes sense and isn't contradictory or hypocritical. Firstly, Lucina is the most popular character from FE:A. Secondly, she's female and a female FE rep was requested by a lot of people, and also just makes sense - having 4 male reps without a female from a series with a LOT of popular females could run the risk of being controversial. It is not sexist for the fact that she is female to be a contributing factor in her inclusion. Thirdly, her role within FE:A is perfectly consistent with her inclusion as an alternative costume as she poses as Marth in-game. Lastly, she's also physically more similar to Marth than Chrom is in terms of build. There may be other reasons I'm not thinking of.

I think that's everything...
tl;dr: read the bolded sections.

They could have given us Lyn if people wanted a female Fire Emblem character. She could have been unique and she is popular enough AND she would represent the first American Fire Emblem game.
So yeah, add Lucina and make Lyn an assist trophy again. I am sorry but I do not approve this decision at all. It could have been done better in so many different ways without Chrom or Lucina.

Edit: But this is just my personal opinion so don't bust my nuts over it.

 

[Lozjam]

Guys, guys. The reason Chrom did not work out is because Captain Falcon beat him up so badly he couldn't participate.
In all seriousness though, Lucina probably took a week at most to introduce into the game. They already had the models and textures, Sakurai just needed to tweak the data. Furthermore quit complaining, all of the main roster has probably been made since March at the latest. What is done is done, and if Sakurai wants to make more clones in his free time, we should be perfectly okay with that.

 

[ChikoLad]

Guys, guys. The reason Chrom did not work out is because Captain Falcon beat him up so badly he couldn't participate.
In all seriousness though, Lucina probably took a week at most to introduce into the game. They already had the models and textures, Sakurai just needed to tweak the data. Furthermore quit complaining, all of the main roster has probably been made since March at the latest. What is done is done, and if Sakurai wants to make more clones in his free time, we should be perfectly okay with that.

Quit complaining about my complaining.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

It appears many speculators think with the same mindset as Sakurai going by this statement. Who would've thought!

I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means.
At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.

And yet Lucina gets a free pass just because she's a more all-around Marth. I call bull****. Chrom and Lucina can BOTH have unique mechanics that Marth or Ike can never touch. Just take a look at the movesets within their threads!

Worse of all, you justify your clone reasoning by making Lucina essentially a Baby's First Marth. If you want to warm up to any character, all you have to do is pick them up and play, then learn their unique mechanics and abilities from base level. Hell, I'll feel even worse for Lucina if she doesn't even go the Roy route special or customization wise.

 

[Gameboi834]

Lucina is visually less similar than Chrom is to Marth

I disagree with this 100%, and gender has nothing to do with it.

Spoiler: This...

Spoiler: ...Looks way more like this...

Spoiler: ...Than this.

 

[ChikoLad]

Also, I kinda find the notion that people want an easier to use version of any Smash Bros character kind of ridiculous, with the only exception being Rosalina & Luma since they are actually really complicated (though I'm sure there will be custom moves to make them easier to use).

This is Smash Bros, not Tekken. Learning a character's shtick should not be that freakin' difficult even for 5 year olds.

Plus, it's not like Marth's moves are ineffectual when he hits with a sour spot.

 

[Pazzo.]

Lucina was meant to just be a Marth alt.
Somewhere along the line, she was given unique properties (i.e. sword strength equal throughout the blade instead of having a sweetspot at the tip) and that made Sakurai give her her own slot to avoid battle record discrepancies between her and Marth.
Essentially a last-minute addition.

Everyone, listen to this man.

 

[ChikoLad]

Everyone, listen to this man.

Great. Still doesn't mean I can't criticise how she isn't executed well as far as clones go.

 

[Pazzo.]

Great. Still doesn't mean I can't criticise how she isn't executed well as far as clones go.

Remember that we, as humans, are biased. Sakurai is no different. He saw an opportunity to represent a favorite franchise, and deliver a fan-favorite character to the Smash roster.

SOMEONE was cut in development, and Lucina was used to fill in that gap.

Now, I'm not saying I enjoy clones, but I believe that the action off adding Lucina to Super Smash Bros. 4 is completely justified.

 

[WoapGang]

Also, I kinda find the notion that people want an easier to use version of any Smash Bros character kind of ridiculous, with the only exception being Rosalina & Luma since they are actually really complicated (though I'm sure there will be custom moves to make them easier to use).

This is Smash Bros, not Tekken. Learning a character's shtick should not be that freakin' difficult even for 5 year olds.

Plus, it's not like Marth's moves are ineffectual when he hits with a sour spot.

Underrated Comment.

 

[ChikoLad]

Remember that we, as humans, are biased. Sakurai is no different. He saw an opportunity to represent a favorite franchise, and deliver a fan-favorite character to the Smash roster.

SOMEONE was cut in development, and Lucina was used to fill in that gap.

Now, I'm not saying I enjoy clones, but I believe that the action off adding Lucina to Super Smash Bros. 4 is completely justified.

Again, my issue is not that she is a clone (,).

But as far as clones go, she is completely uninteresting, while most other clones at least have a shtick of their own.

Literally all I see when I look at Lucina is:

 

[CapnMuffin]

Oh my lawd. The man takes a COSTUME and makes it a playable character and people b**** about it.

Logic cannot help these people.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I disagree with this 100%, and gender has nothing to do with it.

Considering that gender was the main reason behind my statement, I'd say it does. You're right, though - perhaps "visually less similar" isn't the right way of putting it. I meant it moreso in a thematic/archetypal sense. She's a female and this is what visually separates them first and foremost. Chrom fits the same archetype that Marth and Ike do and this is what Sakurai means when he says that his potential to be unique is less so than Robin's. Lucina's "potential to be unique", for the record, is every bit as small as Chrom's.

SOMEONE was cut in development, and Lucina was used to fill in that gap.

This is actually a mistranslation. Lucina never took the spot of a cut character.

I'm a little confused about what's even being argued at the moment. Do Chrom fans:
- Want Chrom as a Marth alt with his own slot instead of Lucina because they feel he's more deserving?
- Want Chrom as a separate character instead of Robin?
- Want Chrom on top of Robin and Lucina?
- Just want to express sadness over Chrom being cut?

I don't really understand why making Lucina an alternate costume for Marth, giving her a slightly different playstyle and then allowing people to select her without going through Marth's costume list is a bad thing. It's adding more options to the game and then making it more convenient to access them. I'm really trying to be unbiased (it's no secret I'm a huge fan of Lucina) but every complaint I read seems unfounded to me.

Don't think of Lucina as a "clone", as such, because she was not designed with that in mind. She was a costume. She was meant to be the exact same as Marth. They added in this slight difference later and gave her an individual slot. This alone makes a big difference.
The only thing that I can reasonably argue for is the benefit of further de-clonifying her compared to Marth, but I'm happy with what I've got and accept Sakurai's reasoning in its entirety.

 

[WoapGang]

The way i see it, unless Roy somehow ends up as an alternate costume of Lucina i truly see no point from a gameplay perspective. i'm all for new representatives from a great franchise,and i understand the logic behind the clonelyness but i just feel "eh" about it.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I'm a little confused about what's even being argued at the moment. Do Chrom fans:
- Want Chrom as a Marth alt with his own slot instead of Lucina because they feel he's more deserving?
- Want Chrom as a separate character instead of Robin?
- Want Chrom on top of Robin and Lucina?
- Just want to express sadness over Chrom being cut?

Just speaking for myself, but I wanted Chrom to be a character with his own unique playstyle. Same goes for Lucina. I would gladly take Option 3 if it means he has a new moveset. I would take Robin only over neither of the two.

We don't know the progress of Lucina's development inside Namco Bandai/Sora's studio. But if it comes down to the prime difference being within physical characteristics and hitboxes, you're better off not including her.

 

[Qsmash]

What's the difference between an alt costume and a character that plays nearly identical to another? If Lucina was kept an alt costume, no one would be complaining this much. Since she's represented as her own character people get upset. Like, what if Wire Frame Mac got his own slot and got little to nothing to differentiate him from Little Mac ? Is he LITERALLY A CLONE or just an alt costume with character slot? In Mortal Kombat 9, Cyrax and Sektor have alternate costumes that make them humans instead of cyborgs. This came with mechanical differences with the characters, similar to Marth to Lucina. The difference between Human Cyrax/Sektor and Cyborg Cyrax/Sektor is that in their human costumes, their special moves come out slower due to nets and missiles not being built into their respective chests or whatever. To MK9 fans, this was a none issue. The costumes didn't take up a slot. They just used whatever version they preferred, which was usually the cyborg version due to obvious reasons. What I'm saying is that this should be a none issue for us. If you don't want to space out for the tipper, then just use Lucina. If you just prefer Marth, then use Marth. If you find the differences in Lucina and Marth too meager, then just think of Lucina as an alt with a seperate slot if you want.

There's my little essay for today. You guys make me care too much.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

We don't know the progress of Lucina's development inside Namco Bandai/Sora's studio. But if it comes down to the prime difference being within physical characteristics and hitboxes, you're better off not including her.

I would've been perfectly happy with her as an alternative costume, but am even happier now that she's a playable character - even if only with slight differences to Marth. Is it really so bad that she's in the game to make her fanbase happy, even if she's not markedly unique?

@ Qsmash : Agreed. It shouldn't be an issue. She is a costume with her own slot; not a clone taking the spot of a unique character.

 

[crazyhandmasterhand]

I'm definitely not complaining either about the fact that Lucina got added in as her own slot really late in development and is super "cloney" at that. For crying out loud Dr. Mario was my favorite addition of Super Smash Bros. Melee, hahaha! Now that she IS her own slot, I am kind of hoping that the team makes her a little more different than Marth at least in the degree of her movements. Like at least her Neutral B and Down B counter have her going into slightly different animations from that of Marth.

Specifically her idle stances come to mind though. Like, I would really like it if she had her idle animation from Awakening for release

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Granted, it's not like this never happened in Melee and Brawl. It looks ass-backwards when you bring in a clone (plus Sakurai's contradictions) in a game where newcomers have prioritized uniqueness and identity, Toon Link notwithstanding.

I guess you could say keeping Lucina as a Marth remodel would be less invasive to the CSS, but Sakurai experimenting with designing Marth from an easier approach really threw a monkey wrench in it. I can easily see another character being weaved into an already existing one. But then again, alt costumes could be considered more insignificant than clones.

I'm happy Lucina fans got their character of choice. I just can't empathize with them.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I always thought Chrom could have been implemented as an all-round weapon master, similar to Firion in Dissidia: Final Fantasy.

This would have been a really nice idea (although arguably Link/Toon Link fulfil this quota)

Whilst I think it is perfectly reasonable for Sakurai to choose Robin over Chrom (I'm very excited to see some Mage-related rep from the FE series), it is a bit of slap in the face to Chrom fans to brand him as 'just another sword user' whilst giving Lucina her own separate character slot. I've no gripes with her being in and I think having her as her own character is the right decision though.

Hopefully her inclusion as an actual character won't affect the chance of other characters being included - it wouldn't be cool if they plan on having X number of characters and character Y didn't get in because there were already X number of characters (with Lucina being one of them) decided.

 

[Qsmash]

This would have been a really nice idea (although arguably Link/Toon Link fulfil this quota)
it is a bit of slap in the face to Chrom fans to brand him as 'just another sword user' whilst giving Lucina her own separate character slot.

"Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder"

They keyword being "would". They couldn't come up with a creative moveset for Chrom, and he would have ended up being uninteresting, so they scrapped him. They didn't call Chrom "just another sword user". They used Robin to fill his quota.

 

[ChikoLad]

Considering that gender was the main reason behind my statement, I'd say it does. You're right, though - perhaps "visually less similar" isn't the right way of putting it. I meant it moreso in a thematic/archetypal sense. She's a female and this is what visually separates them first and foremost.


This is actually a mistranslation. Lucina never took the spot of a cut character.

I'm a little confused about what's even being argued at the moment. Do Chrom fans:
- Want Chrom as a Marth alt with his own slot instead of Lucina because they feel he's more deserving?
- Want Chrom as a separate character instead of Robin?
- Want Chrom on top of Robin and Lucina?
- Just want to express sadness over Chrom being cut?

I don't really understand why making Lucina an alternate costume for Marth, giving her a slightly different playstyle and then allowing people to select her without going through Marth's costume list is a bad thing. It's adding more options to the game and then making it more convenient to access them. I'm really trying to be unbiased (it's no secret I'm a huge fan of Lucina) but every complaint I read seems unfounded to me.

Don't think of Lucina as a "clone", as such, because she was not designed with that in mind. She was a costume. She was meant to be the exact same as Marth. They added in this slight difference later and gave her an individual slot. This alone makes a big difference.
The only thing that I can reasonably argue for is the benefit of further de-clonifying her compared to Marth, but I'm happy with what I've got and accept Sakurai's reasoning in its entirety.

I am not a Fire Emblem fan in the slightest, so my view is completely unbiased since the point revolves around Fire Emblem characters. I don't give two ****s about Chrom, Robin, or Lucina, since I've only played the demo of their game. I don't say that as an insult, but I can't care about a character I have no exposure to. As such, I depend on Smash to make me take interest in the character if I don't already. Smash is a series that has historically made me get into certain franchises through the characters from those franchises being in Smash, which piques my interest, and makes me go the characters series of origin to see more of them, or even watch any shows based off of them.

Lucina's appearance in Smash is painting her as an uninteresting female Marth, which is bad enough, but her implementation as a clone is exceptionally poor. Instead of taking Marth's moveset or shtick an employing it in a new way, she just takes Marth's moveset and gets rid of what makes Marth actually unique and deep as a fighter. Without his tipper mechanic, Marth may as well be Lucas running around with his little tree branch. And that's what Lucina has done.

The problem with Sakurai's write-up is that he makes the claim that Chrom could not be anything more than a generic swordfighter, yet he does just that with Lucina. I don't care what the excuse was for Lucina, the fact remains that he clearly showed favouritism by thinking it was OK to make Lucina a generic swordfighter, and not Chrom. As I pointed out, Chrom could easily be an Ike alt/clone, if not a completely unique fighter.

I'm not encouraging that either of these characters be clones, and again, Lucina is just terrible as far as clones go, but the hypocrisy is obvious here.

And I don't see why Lucina's fans act as if her being a clone character is, in any way, a positive thing. If Rosalina was a Peach clone (the common assumption for her max moveset potential before her reveal, stupid as it was), I'd be pissed, as it would bring a whole new wave of negativity towards my favourite character who is unjustifiably compared to Peach and referred to as "Blue Peach/Space Peach/Emo Peach" enough as it is (much like how Lucina is compared to Marth a lot even before Smash 4).

 

[Gameboi834]

I meant it moreso in a thematic/archetypal sense. Chrom fits the same archetype that Marth and Ike do and this is what Sakurai means when he says that his potential to be unique is less so than Robin's. Lucina's "potential to be unique", for the record, is every bit as small as Chrom's.

This I can agree with. But Chrom still looks more different that Lucina does.

 

[UnownLegend]

my one complaint is that Lucina has the same speed as marth

not even fox and falco have the same speed in melee right? if her speed was a little different i think it would have gone a long way to making her different from Marth

 

[Flarame]

In all honesty I understand why people are pissed about Lucina being a complete clone of Marth, even if I personally think she'll have something unique, like I don't know, Sakurai can make her DP different, sword dance useful and maybe Shield Breaker of Marth melee style.

Complaining won't help accepting or changing the matter, Lucina's in, she's a clone, she didn't take a slot or maybe if you think she did, well that's Sakurai's vision of the game. It is after all HIS game. Too bad like one would say.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

"Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder"

They keyword being "would". They couldn't come up with a creative moveset for Chrom, and he would have ended up being uninteresting, so they scrapped him. They didn't call Chrom "just another sword user". They used Robin to fill his quota.

Very true but I would argue that the way it's phrased heavily implies that.

Would it really have been a problem if he had been 'uninteresting'? Is that really a good enough reason to not include someone in the game?

Whether something is interesting or not is very subjective and I'm sure many Chrom supporters would beg to differ with Sakurai over the matter. Chrom has the option of using Lances and Bows in his game right? Would it have been so difficult to come up with a moveset for Chrom, who uses different weapons to Marth and Ike, to establish him from other characters?

Perhaps developmental issues as opposed to moveset issues is playing a factor in all of this...

Don't get me wrong - when comes to Robin vs Chrom I fully agree with having Robin over Chrom since I'm pumped to have a Mage in Smash (although now we'll probably never see a Golden Sun rep as a playable character lol) but I do sympathise with Chrom supporters and their disappointment over him not being included. Lucina's inclusion as an actual character, whilst seeming to have no impact on Chrom's lack of inclusion, further adds salt to the wound given she is from the same game and is essentially a glorified Marth costume, making her all the things that are supposedly the reason for Chrom not being included

 

[DraginHikari]

And I don't see why Lucina's fans act as if her being a clone character is, in any way, a positive thing. If Rosalina was a Peach clone (the common assumption for her max moveset potential before her reveal, stupid as it was), I'd be pissed, as it would bring a whole new wave of negativity towards my favourite character who is unjustifiably compared to Peach and referred to as "Blue Peach/Space Peach/Emo Peach" enough as it is (much like how Lucina is compared to Marth a lot even before Smash 4).

The reason why many Lucina fans are just happy to have her, is she was probably the main one of the Awakening Trio that seems less likely to make it into the game to begin with. Her similarity to Marth has always given her a number of detractors a relatively high number and even though like me that were clamoring for her early in development lost hope in the idea as it was looking more and more impossible. A lot of people are just happy to have her be a part because we were led to believe for a long time that she had no chance at all. Sometimes people don't need things to go exactly as they want to be happy about something.

Am I happy about the clone situation,no not entirely, but it's a livable situation and how it appears to have come about, I understand why it may have played out the way it did. In my opinion as par for the course there is far too much outrage involved here with too much empathize on what is being said rather then what is actually there.