Tower of Smash Discussion

[leprechaunlink727]

I would add the Trophy theory to the analysis as I don't think it's totally illogical, but I'm trying to keep things in the character section limited to hard evidence instead of theories.

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

Ok, I'm gonna give some input on this Tower of Smash leak. Now I actually found some interesting stuff about the leak that I'm gonna say cause interesting. It's not gonna prove anything, but it might raise a few eyebrows. Now, you see, the "leaker" has a bunch of Melee stages listed to return. Now, the weird thing here is this. The music tracks for these stages are all actually bonus tracks on the 3DS Smash Bros. Weird right? At first I was like, "Eh, why would they be bonus tracks if the stages were gonna playable at any point" but then Onett was confirmed. I don't know, it's certainly strange. Who knows though. Maybe it's a coincidence.

Edit:Well today I called Nintendo of America to ask about the Tower of Smash leak. When I mentioned the leak, they didn't seem to know what i was talking about. I decided to ask if there would be additional characters on the Wii U Smash. They guy I was talking to said there would be. I asked if they were Impa, Ridley, Chorus Kids, Mewtwo, and Dixie and his reaction was I quote "That definitely sounds familiar". So now we have proof of the Tower of Smash leak. It's confirmed

 

[MajorMajora]

You know, about imps being in this game, I really would prefer if Demise was in. I mean, he'd be the ganondorf with a sword and more canon move set people want while keeping the old ganondorf.

 

[domokl]

Ok, I'm gonna give some input on this Tower of Smash leak. Now I actually found some interesting stuff about the leak that I'm gonna say cause interesting. It's not gonna prove anything, but it might raise a few eyebrows. Now, you see, the "leaker" has a bunch of Melee stages listed to return. Now, the weird thing here is this. The music tracks for these stages are all actually bonus tracks on the 3DS Smash Bros. Weird right? At first I was like, "Eh, why would they be bonus tracks if the stages were gonna playable at any point" but then Onett was confirmed. I don't know, it's certainly strange. Who knows though. Maybe it's a coincidence.

Edit:Well today I called Nintendo of America to ask about the Tower of Smash leak. When I mentioned the leak, they didn't seem to know what i was talking about. I decided to ask if there would be additional characters on the Wii U Smash. They guy I was talking to said there would be. I asked if they were Impa, Ridley, Chorus Kids, Mewtwo, and Dixie and his reaction was I quote "That definitely sounds familiar". So now we have proof of the Tower of Smash leak. It's confirmed

Theres no way an employee would say that to you.

 

[Dragonogon]

I always think leaks are real until proven otherwise, and same with this one. One thing though. Ridley "grows" wings? Did the leaker try to say his wings are folded up or something?

 

[ChillerDuu]

Edit:Well today I called Nintendo of America to ask about the Tower of Smash leak. When I mentioned the leak, they didn't seem to know what i was talking about. I decided to ask if there would be additional characters on the Wii U Smash. They guy I was talking to said there would be. I asked if they were Impa, Ridley, Chorus Kids, Mewtwo, and Dixie and his reaction was I quote "That definitely sounds familiar". So now we have proof of the Tower of Smash leak. It's confirmed

Too bad you gave us no reason to believe you. Besides, an official source would probably have to come from a developer of the game or Sakurai himself; not some guy in the NoA offices. So it's far from confirmed.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Here's the complete version of my analysis, with a section added covering the characters as well as an analysis of the new stage pic from yesterday under the Kirby stages.

The Tower of Smash Leak and why I WANT TO BELIEVE

So recently a leak has been making the rounds after it was posted on 4chan, with some people finding that the extraordinary amount of detail and plausibility makes some of its more grandiose claims believable, while others are just trying to enjoy the 3DS version for what it is without getting their hopes up. I can sympathize with both sides, but I can’t help but feel like the leak is very compelling, primarily due to its similarities to the Ninka/Vaanrose leak, its extensive detail, and the fact that it just makes a lot of sense. Since there hasn’t been a hugely in depth analysis post for this leak yet, I thought I’d put one together while procrastinating my homework.


OVERVIEW:

The leak goes very in depth with everything it reveals, similarly to the Ninka/Vaanrose leak. Unlike that leak however, there’s no external evidence backing it up, simply a block of text. But it’s not the presence of detail that’s compelling so much as the details themselves. The leak presents a very plausible stage list, elaborates on a new single player mode that makes a lot of sense, and expands on the list of Wii U locked characters suggested a couple of weeks ago on Neogaf. The leak gives more detail on certain aspects than others, but taken altogether it presents an almost complete picture of the Wii U version of Sm4sh. The leak is basically split up into three parts: characters, game modes, and stages. There's an additional section covering what's already been confirmed or is believed to have been confirmed since the leak was first posted.


CHARACTERS

Spoiler

The leak's claim that five characters are being withheld until the release of the Wii U version is by far its most spectacular claim, and most of the big holes in the leak's logic center around the characters. However, there is nothing conclusive either way, so here I examine a number of pieces of evidence pertaining specifically to the characters.

The Character Select Screen:

Spoiler

Many have pointed out that unless the random slot or Mii slot are removed, the 3DS character select only has room for 4 more fighters, not 5, and that adding characters to some of the series at the top of the roster, such as DK, Metroid, and Zelda, cause other series to separate between rows farther down the screen. I think this would be a valid argument were it not for the fact that the current CSS makes little to no sense, and is the most visually disorganized character select screen in the series:

A summary of the issues:

-Free space for 4 more slots. This isn’t necessarily indicative anything, but it takes on a little bit more significance when combined with the fact that a 50 slot CSS has been separated into 4 rows of 9, 1 row of 8, and 1 row of 6, rather than the cleaner and simpler 5 rows of 10.

-Series organized by release, except when they’re not. Characters within series ordered by first appearance, except when they’re not.

-Mario Characters are weirdly organized. Yoshi divides the series in half for no clear reason. If Mario series characters are meant to be organized by first appearance, which would make Yoshi’s positioning slightly more logical, then Rosalina and Bowser Jr. would be swapped and Wario would be before both of them.

-There’s a “clone alley”, but it doesn’t include Luigi, Toon Link, Ganondorf, or Falco. Even if these particular 3 clones are singled out due to being “last-minute additions”, it still makes no ****ing sense that they come before Shulk.

- Single-rep series are organized in release order, but G&W, Little Mac, and Shulk are all inexplicably separated in other parts of the roster. G&W is sort of where he would be if every series was in release order regardless of reps, but only if he is moved after Mario, a series that came after him. Little Mac’s spot makes literally no sense at all, as Punch-Out! Is actually the fifth oldest series on the roster, after G&W, Pac-Man, Mario, & DK. Shulk is placed on a row that otherwise only features third party characters and Miis, after clone alley.

Given these weird inconsistencies and Sakurai’s usually meticulous attention to organizational details with menus, one can’t help but feel as though the roster is incomplete or not finished shifting around. Granting the roster the ability to shift around a bit more, there are ways to organize the ToS leak roster in a far more coherent fashion, this being my personal pick:

although something still fundamentally ugly like this is certainly possible too, with the random function moved somewhere else, perhaps to the lower screen on the 3DS:

Unlocking the Characters:

Spoiler

According to the leak, the five extra characters will be unlocked for the 3DS version upon connecting with the Wii U, although he does not know how it will work for people who don’t have both versions. After stating this, the leaker says that on Wii U, “All of the characters and stages are unlocked from the start”. This is definitely an intriguing detail, as unlocking characters and stages is a fan favorite part of the Smash experience, and it’s definitely a bit of a red flag for the leak. However, he could simply be clarifying that the characters and stages on the Wii U do not require a data transfer from the 3DS, and this makes sense given that the sentence saying everything is unlocked comes immediately after the one where he says he doesn’t know how players without both games will get everything on the 3DS. Or, Sakurai could throw us for a loop and make everything on Wii U unlocked from the start in order to make multiplayer the primary focus, who knows.

The Spainkiller Leak:

Spoiler

One of the interesting things about the characters listed in the leak is that four of them appear in a leak from the day the Japanese version broke street date, seen in this Neogaf post. A post like this on any random forum would not be notable, but Neogaf bans users who post fake leaks, and also has many members who work in the industry. Spainkiller’s Neogaf account is ten years old, and he claims to be a games journalist as well, so it would be really stupid for him to risk his account on posting bs. He seems relatively confident but not 100% certain that his info is good. Given that his account is as old as it is and that he seems to have industry contacts, his word is somewhat credible, and so his post carries more weight than your average leak, serving as the main source of Wii U speculation prior to the ToS leak.

Ridley:

Spoiler

“No wings on ground, when using Up-B grows them, and flies around, changing moves but becoming lighter. Other M design.”

Oh, Ridley Ridley Ridley. The Helen of Troy of the Smash community, you just refuse to die. Given Samus’ design, the fact that it’s the most recent Metroid game, and the fact that we’ve already seen his tail, Ridley using his Other M design is expected, if somewhat disappointing. I assume that the design will be streamlined at least a little bit, and it will definitely benefit greatly from some updated textures, but Roidley was always who we were most likely going to get, beady eyes and unnecessary spikes included.

The most controversial part of Ridley’s description in the leak is the idea that he “grows” wings with his Up B, because spontaneously growing wings is not something that he ever does in the Metroid games. I would propose that his wings are merely folded up on the ground, rather than missing completely, and that the leaker was simply oversimplifying, although it could certainly just be a bad lie if the leak is fake. It makes sense that his wings would be folded on the ground, they’re enormous and would not only create a liability as a hurtbox but would probably clip with the platforms above Ridley.

As far as becoming lighter and gaining new moves, I think it would probably primarily affect his aerials and specials, giving him greater mobility in the air at the cost of survivability. This makes sense as a unique gimmick for Ridley, and Robin has shown us that certain A-moves can change for characters in different contexts. While I agree that the description is definitely weirdly worded, there’s nothing that can’t be explained as oversimplification by the leaker.


For Ridley:
-Still hasn’t been shown as stage boss
The now infamous shadow tease has still not been officially addressed since the direct except for a small mention in Famitsu, even though the game is already out now for one system. We’ve seen dozens and dozens of pics of Pyrosphere sans Ridley, and it hasn’t been playable in any demos. While it’s certainly possible that all of this secrecy is just hyping up Ridley’s appearance as a stage boss, it’s kind of odd that Sakurai would think that’s a good idea unless he really does maintain his eternal youth by bathing in fanboy tears. It would be nice to finally get some closure, that’s for sure.

-Mentioned by Spainkiller
Like every one of these characters except for Impa, Ridley was mentioned by Spainkiller, who is a somewhat credible source.

-No trophy on 3DS
Ridley is the only character in the Tower of Smash leak to not already have a trophy on 3DS, which is kind of suspicious. Many have suggested this is because he’s a stage boss on Pyrosphere and is thus primarily relevant to Wii U. Fair enough point, but until we know that for sure, this remains a weird thing given his importance to the Metroid Series.

-Shadow in Direct certainly moves like a playable character
There is some fairly compelling evidence gleaned from ridiculous over-analysis of the shadow tease that Ridley grabs Pikachu and lets him go without doing anything, and his movements seem too stilted to be those of a pre-animated boss character. I’ll let this very enthusiastic guy with awesome hair handle the specifics if you’re curious.


Against Ridley:
-Still heavily implied to be a stage boss
There’s no denying the fact that Ridley’s shadow appeared above a blurb saying “other boss character appearances”. Occam’s Razor dictates that this means he’s a stage boss, and the fact that he’s completely absent from the 3DS version certainly backs this up.

-Name found in game files in a list that includes known stage bosses and Smash Run enemies
On the dumped ROM, Ridley’s name was found on a list of characters that includes Smash Run enemies and stage hazards from both the Wii U and 3DS versions. What’s strange is that the only non-3DS elements on this list are Metal Face, Ridley, Nabbit and Kamek. Weve already seen Nabbit and Kemek in the New Super Mario Bros Wii stage, and Ridley and Metal Face’s roles are unclear, but have been teased. What’s missing are any Wii U stage hazards that we didn’t already know about at the time of the ROM dump, such as the arwings and aparoids from Orbital Gate, and there are presumably more stage hazards that we still haven’t seen. It’s hard to account for why these specific Wii U stage hazards are present on the list but not all of the stage hazards, and it adds a bit of uncertainty to a piece of evidence that would otherwise be damning.

Mewtwo:

Spoiler

“Heavier than Melee version, and slightly larger. Final Smash has both MMX and MMY appear on the side of the screen and blast the foe. Not the female voice, or the Melee voice, just makes generic grunts.”

Mewtwo being heavier and larger could potentially address some of the reasons why he sucked so hard in Melee, we can only hope that he’s a little bit faster too. The Final Smash makes sense given that all of the Pokemon that have Mega Evolutions use them in their Final Smashes. It basically sounds like Lucario’s old Final Smash, times 2. It’s a little weird that two Mewtwos appear, especially given Charizard has two Mega Evolutions as well but only uses one in his Final Smash. The voice actor change is disappointing given how badass Mewtwo sounded in Melee, but expected. Overall, there’s not as much room for speculation here since Mewtwo already has an established move set. Nothing the leaker said sounds particularly unlikely other than Mewtwo returning at all.


For Mewtwo:
-Mentioned directly by Sakurai in and early E3 press conference
At E3 2013, where Sm4sh had its first trailer, there was an unrelated press conference for Pokemon X & Y, where one of the journalists in the audience asked the developers if they wanted to see Mewtwo’s new form in Smash Bros. This flustered the Pokemon developers, who said they couldn’t comment, but Sakurai, who happened to be in the audience, shouted “We’re thinking about it!”. This is kind of a non-answer, but Sakurai didn’t have to say anything seeing as this was a press conference for another game. Taking the comment totally at face value, at least some thought was put into making Mewtwo playable, regardless of whether or not he ultimately ends up being so.

-Mentioned by Spainkiller
Like every one of these characters except for Impa, Mewtwo was mentioned by Spainkiller, who is a somewhat credible source.

-Was already a playable character
Mewtwo has the unique advantage among the five proposed characters of already being playable in Melee. This would theoretically simplify the job of adding him compared to a newcomer, and it helps that as the member of the "Forbidden Seven" with the most left over data, there is evidence he was fairly far along in development for Brawl as well.

Against Mewtwo:
-Sakurai said older characters are hard to bring back given Melee’s age
In a recent Famitsu column, Sakurai discussed the difficulty of porting data from Melee given its age, and said that this was a reason they did not include “characters from older games”. This seems to be a specific reference to Mewtwo, seeing as he’s the only cut character from Melee who isn’t a clone and whose moveset could not be easily created by altering the properties of an existing fighter.

-Trophy on 3DS
Like all of these characters except for Ridley, Mewtwo has a trophy on the 3DS.

Of note is the fact that the trophy has a new design that resembles the anime version of the character more closely than Melee’s, and is larger overall, as described by the leaker. However, the fact that a trophy appears at all is certainly not a good sign, and the model's quality is not on par with that of a playable character.

Dixie Kong:

Spoiler

“Mix between DK (ponytail helicopter, can carry foes when grabbing with ponytail, FS is guitar like Donkey Konga), and Diddy (similar normals and speed, banana toss).”

Sounds to me like she’s a semi-clone of Diddy with a few similar moves to DK. It makes sense that her helicopter hair would be her Up B, and she is known for playing a guitar in the games, so having a final smash similar to DK’s makes sense too. It’s worth noting that DK’s final smash, but with a guitar, was basically the function of the Barbara the Bat Assist Trophy, who is one of the few ATs that has been cut for Sm4sh. It could be that the AT was cut because Dixie’s Final Smash is basically identical. I haven’t really played much Donkey Kong Country, so I don’t know if gabbing people with her hair is something she can do, but that would be cool, and the more characters that can do hilarious suicide kills, the better. We have very few details here, but the ones we do have make sense for the character. I don’t need to go into detail on why Dixie deserves a roster spot, she’s been around for years and has just had a resurgence as one of the playable characters in Tropical Freeze. K. Rool may have been who most people here wanted, but Dixie is no less important a character to the series.

For Dixie Kong:
-Planned for Brawl
Dixie Kong is one of the “Forbidden Seven” from Brawl: characters who had left over data in the game files but did not make a playable appearance. Also among these characters were Dr. Mario, who is back, and Mewtwo, who is back according to this leak, so it could be that three of the forbidden seven were reconsidered and implemented this time around. Whatever the case, the fact that Dixie was definitely planned to be a playable character at at least one point in the series’ history helps her chances.

-Mentioned by Spainkiller
Like every one of these characters except for Impa, Dixie was mentioned by Spainkiller, who is a somewhat credible source.

Against Dixie Kong:
-Trophy on 3DS
Like every character but Ridley, Dixie has a trophy on the 3DS.

This seems to be a new model but is fairly low quality, and the fact that a trophy appears at all is not a good sign for her playable status.

Impa:

Spoiler

“SS design. Mix between Sheik’s agility and Zelda’s magic.”

The first thing that comes to mind is the strangeness of using her Skyward Sword design when, save for Toon Link, all of the Zelda characters use Twilight Princess inspired designs. Skyward Sword was a big hit for Nintendo, and the biggest Zelda release since Brawl, so it’s certainly conceivable that it could get roster representation, especially with a character who has relevance to the series beyond that game. However, Impa has ridiculous proportions, making her design clash strongly with the other Zelda characters. Sakurai has clearly tried to implement a consistent art style for each series, Toon Link being the one and only exception, and this version of Impa would throw a big wrench in that. It could be an updated design with less exaggerated proportions, similar to how Sheik’s design was updated for Brawl, but that seems like more of a stretch.

The second suspicious thing is that Impa has by far the most vague and least detailed description of the five characters, and it’s hard to really say from this whether she’s a Sheik clone, a Zelda clone, a mix of both, or an entirely original character. Some have said that given that the transformation characters have been split up, a new character that bridges Zelda and Sheik’s play styles makes sense, and the potential of a move set that combines the best of the two is vast. I would assume that Impa is at least a semi-clone, like Dixie. Five characters with entirely original move sets seems like too much to hold back for the Wii U, three original characters and two clones seems a little more reasonable. Given the similarities between her and Sheik, Impa is a reasonable character to make a clone, unlike say, Ganondorf.


For Impa:
-Most plausible Zelda Newcomer that’s not already an AT
Tingle, Skull Kid, Midna, Ghirahim. All highly requested at one point or another, all Assist Trophies. Not only has Impa yet to appear in AT form, but she also has seniority on every Zelda character that isn’t already playable, debuting in the instruction manual for the original legend of Zelda, and appearing quite frequently since as the most frequently reoccurring character that isn’t named Link, Zelda, or Ganon (although Tingle is close). She certainly has enough historical importance to the series to deserve a roster spot, and has made several prominent appearances since Brawl in Skyward Sword, A Link Between Worlds, and Hyrule Warriors, putting her in a similar position as newcomers like Rosalina and Bowser Jr. While I would have personally preferred Tingle, she would be a very solid pick for a Zelda Newcomer, and adds yet another playable female character to a roster where Sakurai has made that a clear priority.

-No trophy for SS design on 3DS
Only Impa’s Ocarina of Time design appears as a trophy on 3DS, so if her Skyward Sword design is in fact the one being used, her 3DS trophy could just be an extra trophy like the ones many other playable characters have.
Against Impa:
-Not mentioned by Spainkiller
While the Spainkiller leak is only moderately more credible than this one, it always helps to have multiple sources naming a particular character, and it’s highly suspicious that all four of the other characters were mentioned by Spainkiller except for Impa. It could be that Spainkiller’s source simply hadn’t seen Impa yet, or it could be that the ToS leaker is full of it.

-Mentioned by known liar Mother****ing Leaker, ToS leaker may be piggy backing
Impa, alongside Ridley, Mewtwo, Dixie, and Mach Rider, was mentioned as one of the “Final Five” by Mother****ing Leaker, the 4chan poster who leaked the ESRB photos. Prior to this, fake leaks rarely if ever mentioned Impa, and after the disconfirmation of Ghirahim, most people had decided that there would be no Zelda newcomer. However, Mother****ing Leaker has admitted to lying about other things, and it’s very possible that Impa’s inclusion in this leak is piggybacking off of Mother****ing leaker, leaving out the more out-there suggestion of Mach Rider in order to be more credible.

-Oot Design trophy on 3DS

It could easily be the case that Impa is no more than a trophy, but gets a Skyward Sword trophy on Wii U and an OoT 3D one on 3DS.

Chorus Men:

Spoiler

“Control conductor, Chorus Men move in-front of him and can change their positioning. Like Rosa + Olimar.”

With the Ice Climbers gone, Chorus Men would be the third “team” character to appear in Sm4sh, and the fourth to appear in the series overall. Their mechanic certainly sounds unique enough to differentiate them from Olimar and Rosalina, and the way it’s implemented, with the conductor commanding the three singers, would be faithful to their role in the Rhythm Heaven games. If their normal moves are all consistent but with changing hitboxes based on their position, that’s a really cool new strategic gimmick for a character, and I can already think of some interesting combo potential for such a character. We already have a character in Shulk who can change the properties of their moves, so there’s a precedent for this kind of thing. When they first appeared in the Gematsu leak, I didn’t really like the idea of the Chorus Men, but they’ve managed to win me over, and the idea of these cute little guys running around and doing synchronized moves is adorable.

What the leaker didn’t mention was any kind of “rhythm-based” mechanic for these characters, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one given the scant details he did provide.

The Chorus Men originate from just one particular minigame in Rhythm Heaven, but an identical character, Marshall, went on to be the “host” for Rhythm Heaven Fever, making him the de facto mascot of the series. Moreover, the Chorus Men are one of the few Rhythm Heaven characters who actually have anything to do with music, making them a good ambassador of what the series is all about.

For Chorus Men
-Only unresolved character from Gematsu leak
Despite Chrom’s disconfirmation, there’s plenty of reasons to believe the Gematsu leaker had some good info, and the Chorus Men are the only character from that leak that has gone completely unacknowledged by Sakurai. Ever since the second part of the Gematsu leak first surfaced, the Chorus Men have been a source of endless speculation, and while they will probably never be acknowledged as an in-development character if they are not included. But there are several reasons to believe they were at least planned.

-Sneaky Spirit appears in Smash Run
Sneaky Spirit is the only character in Smash Run besides the Polar Bear and the Namco enemies whose series is not attached to a playable character. Given that we know the Ice Climbers were worked on and then cut, it’s reasonable to guess that the Chorus Men were at least worked on too, making an eventual appearance by them still a possibility, unless they were cut for similar reasons as the Ice Climbers.

-Mentioned by Spainkiller
Like every one of these characters except for Impa, Chorus Men were mentioned by Spainkiller, who is a somewhat credible source.

Against Chorus Men
-Trophy on 3DS
Like every character except for Ridley, the Chorus Men have a 3DS trophy.

However the trophy uses 2-dimensional assets from their game, rather than a new 3D model as would befit a playable character. It could be that the playable Chorus Men would be 2-dimensional like Game & Watch, as weird as that would look, or it could be that the 3D model is being saved for their playable appearance on Wii U. Whatever the case, having an unlockable trophy already exist on 3DS is certainly not a point in their favor.

GAME MODES

Spoiler

Tower of Smash

Spoiler

The new game mode from which the leak gets its name, and the one thing that will definitely, without a doubt confirm the leak if we see it in a PotD. It also happens to be the most detailed part of the leak:

“The big new mode is called “Tower of Smash”. It’s a 100-Floor Tower, with each floor containing three doors showing what character + stage. You choose a door, and fight a 1-on-1 single stock match against that character, with various rules in place. This includes slow/fast mode, one where you’re put at 300% and the opponent 0%, and one with all Pokeballs, just to name a few.

In this mode, you pick four characters at the beginning (must be all different), and each one represents one life. You can switch before each battle, but when one dies, they’re gone for the rest of your Tower you can start from the 10th, 20th, 30th, etc. if you reached that far before. Unlike in All-Star, you’re healed between matches.

The 9th, 19th, 29th, etc. floor is a special Boss Battle. These have you fight against special Boss characters, such as Dyna Blade and Mecha Dragon. There’s an unlockable Boss Rush mode as well, the room set up like the classic Mega Man Boss Rush Room, where you can challenge all the Bosses in a row.”

The details we’re given are incredibly thorough and sound very plausible. The mode also works not only as a worthy Wii U counterpart to Smash Run, but as a creative way of combining the best parts of Subspace Emissary (length, the bosses) and Event Matches (unique battles with special conditions) into one mode. It also sounds like a lot of fun, and a solid time-sink depending on what the rewards are for completing the tower.

What most compels me to believe this however is the fact that the mode sounds incredibly similar to a single player mode from Soul Calibur IV called Tower of Lost Souls. In that mode, as in this one, the player chooses a team of characters and ascends a tower floor by floor, fighting through matches with special conditions and reaching checkpoints every few stages. We know that members of the Soul Calibur team are working on Sm4sh, and we’ve already seen a bit of Soul Calibur influence sneak in via the design of Final Destination. The fact that this mode is a reworked idea from a Soul Calibur game makes a lot of sense from a design perspective given who’s working on the game, particularly since Smash Run is a reworked mode from another game as well.

There’s also the fact that fake leaks hardly ever mention single player modes in the first place, and when they do, they don’t dare to invent a new one. From the perspective of a faker trying to make up a believable leak, Tower of Smash doesn’t make any sense.

Given that the 3DS version is now released in all territories, we will start getting information about the Wii U’s unique features, and Tower of Smash would be a big one. If this mode is real, we will probably know very soon. Get hype.

Boss Rush

Spoiler

A boss rush mode was featured in Brawl, so if there are bosses in Tower of Smash, it makes sense that this mode would make a return. It’s apparently laid out like the classic Mega Man boss rushes, meaning that the bosses can be fought in any order, rather than in a linear order like Brawl’s Boss Rush. If Tower of Smash has random elements, and it probably does since that would increase replay value, it could be that the boss order is randomized for each run, so it makes sense that there would be no linear order for Boss Rush. The leaker namedrops tow boss examples: Dyna Blade and Mecha Dragon. Dyna Blade is a recurring Kirby boss that would definitely show up in Smash in this kind of capacity, while Mecha Dragon is a famous boss from Mega Man 2. While this would be the first third party boss to show up in a single player mode, we already have Yellow Devil as a stage boss, and the classic Mega Man bosses are all very iconic, so this certainly isn’t out of the question.

Stage Builder

Spoiler

Stage Builder returns, and “is way more customizable this time around”. The Stage Builder was a fun inclusion in Brawl, and there’s no real reason to get rid of it. It makes sense as a Wii U exclusive, since saving all of the stages would eat through people’s sd cards on DS very quickly, and since it was so bare bones in Brawl, it’s logical to assume that if it comes back it will be more in depth. Definitely plausible.

Break the Targets

Spoiler

The leak says that every character gets individual Break the Targets levels again like in Melee, including three versions for the Miis, and that Mega Man’s level features disappearing blocks. This is certainly possible, and I always got the impression that there were only a few universal Break the Targets levels in Brawl because of the development crunch caused by the Subspace Emissary. However, this is yet another thing that everybody wants, making it sound almost too good to be true. But I don’t think that’s any reason to discount it on its own. And if every character gets their own BtT level, I would frankly be amazed if Mega Man’s didn’t have the disappearing blocks, seeing as they’re such an iconic part of the series. We'll just have to see with this one, this seems like the sort of thing we may see in an upcoming PotD.

Challenge Menu

Spoiler

This is kind of interesting. According to the leak, there are multiple challenge menus that are smaller than the 3DS one, but divided by series. Once you complete the challenge screen, a special picture appears. This mechanic is very similar to the way the new credits game works on 3DS, so that adds a little credibility. Smaller challenge screens being organized by series is a fun way to create more specialized challenges and to reward trophies by series as well. Nothing about this is too out there to be believable, and it would be another small way of giving love to the individual series themselves. This is another detail that will probably be confirmed by a PotD if it's real.

Tournament

Spoiler

No reason this mode wouldn’t come back, it’s been around since Melee and it’s not like it’s difficult to implement.

Classic & All-Star

Spoiler

No reason to think these modes would ever be 3DS exclusive, they’re both staples of the series.

STAGES

Spoiler

I think this stage list is perfect, and easily the most plausible part of the leak. An increase from 41 stages in Brawl to 62 in Sm4sh Wii U sounds a little excessive, but about a third are simply returning stages from Brawl with texture updates. Every series gets at least one new stage, with every veteran series getting at least one returning stage if it has one available. Also notable is that the majority of veteran series have the same number of stages as Brawl, with most of the exceptions being because of returning stages. All of the returning stages appeared in Brawl, which lines up with what Sakurai has said about it being difficult to port material over from the older games. The stages are listed in the same series order as the 3DS stage select. There aren’t any glaring omissions in terms of representing recent console games, and several series have stages that do a great job representing the series as a whole. There are definitely some weird choices, but I think this adds credibility rather than taking it away, since it doesn’t read like an obvious fan wishlist. If it weren’t for the more grandiose things claimed by other parts of the leak, I don’t think anybody would question this stage list. I think it’s incredibly reasonable all around, and I go in depth here as to why with a series by series breakdown:

Smash Original: 2 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Battlefield
Final Destination

No surprises here.

Mario: 6 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Mario Galaxy
Bowser’s Castle
Mushroom Kingdom U
Rainbow Cruise*
Delfino Plaza*
Luigi’s Mansion*

Bowser’s Castle is a stage people have wanted since Melee, which makes it a little suspect simply because it aligns so perfectly with fan desires. However, it definitely makes sense as a stage, and can represent any number of console Mario games, since some version of it appears in pretty much every single one, even Mario Kart. Speaking of which, I have a hunch that this is going to be the Mario Kart 8 version. We already have a Mario Kart stage on 3DS, but Mario Kart is a huge series and is just as important to consoles, and Mario Circuit apparently isn’t returning. Thankfully, the Mario Kart 8 Bowser’s Castle is awesome:

The three returning stages are all solid picks. Mario is definitely deserving of 3, and if Mario Circuit is getting replaced by Rainbow Road and maybe Bowser’s Castle, then “Mario Bros” is the only Brawl Mario stage not carrying over to Sm4sh in some form. “Mario Bros”, while nostalgic and sort of fun, is perhaps the most broken stage in the history of the series, so I don’t think it will be mourned.

Donkey Kong: 3 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Jungle Hijinx
Bramble Blast
Rumble Falls*

Jungle Hijinx is the name of the first level of both the original Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong Country Returns. I think it’s pretty safe to assume that this will be the DKCR version, because the game was a hit both commercially and critically, is far more recent, and its version of the level has a lot more going on visually. This is the “safe guess” stage.

Bramble Blast is a little more out there, being a memorable level from DKC2, and would make for an interesting stage since it’s already got a built in gimmick by being covered in brambles. Additionally, its background music already appears as an alternate track for Smash Run on the 3DS version, but is not selectable ifor any stage, suggesting perhaps that there may be something to this after all.

We’re definitely getting at least one new DK stage, and both of these are reasonable choices. On the other hand nobody really likes Rumble Falls, but 75m, while a noble effort by Sakurai, is just atrociously unplayable, and Jungle Japes is on 3DS, making Rumble Falls the only Brawl DK stage left for returning.

Yoshi: 2 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Yoshi’s Story
Yoshi’s Island (Melee)*

A lot of people have said this one is a bit suspicious, since Yoshi’s Story came out way back in 1997 and was already represented by a stage in both 64 and Melee. It’s definitely a little weird, but nobody seems to realize that Yoshi’s Story is the most recent console Yoshi game. The series has been exclusively on handhelds ever since 1997, and while this trend will be broken with Yoshi’s Wooly World, that game doesn’t even have a release date yet. In addition, every Yoshi game since Yoshi’s Story has been a remake of the original Yoshi’s Island, which is already adequately represented by the returning Brawl stage on 3DS. This is just one example of a place where the stage list seems off or inconsistent, but on second glance makes perfect sense.

The returning stage is just the same one from Brawl, so no surprise there.

Wario: 2 (+1 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Game & Wario (Gamer)
WarioWare*

People are splitting hairs over the fact that the leaker didn’t get the stage’s name right, but I think in this case it doesn’t mean much. Had he put “Gamer”, almost nobody would have known what he was talking about, so he could have said “Game & Wario” for clarity. There’s also still a possibility that “Gamer” is just one phase of the stage and there’s more to it than we’ve seen. Wario Land is getting shafted once again in spite of the very solid Wario Land: Shake It!, but that’s really not too surprising. Warioware is on 3DS already, but there’s no reason returning stages can’t be shared too, especially since it’s the only option for a returning Wario stage.

Zelda: 5 (+2 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Skyloft
Forest Haven
Temple*
Bridge of Eldin*
Pirate Ship*

Forest Haven makes sense to me because it accomplishes two things. One, it reps the most recent console Zelda game, which is Wind Waker HD, and assets from that game could theoretically be carried over to create the stage. Two, it very prominently features an iconic Zelda character who appears in several games: the Deku tree, even if this isn’t his most popular incarnation. The leaves surrounding the Tree are basically already like Smash platforms, and the deku pods could add a fun mechanic if they're featured as well. It's one of those places that translates very well into a Smash stage without changing much. I can definitely see this stage happening and I personally think this is one of the most exciting stages on the list.

If the three returning stages are accurate, then every one of Zelda’s Brawl stages is returning, which seems like a reasonable decision since they’re all great stages, Temple in particular being a fan favorite.

Pokemon: 3 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Nimbassa City
Kalos Pokemon League
Pokemon Stadium 2*

While it seems like Pokemon should have more stages, it has the same number as Brawl, so no real red flags here. Nimbassa City is from Black & White, and is your typical Pokemon “metropolis” town save for one thing: the giant ferris wheel that serves as its most prominent landmark. A ferris wheel is a great idea for a Smash stage, so I’m totally on board with this. What’s also worth mentioning is how the two Wii U stages would be parallels of the two 3DS stages. On 3DS, we have the major metropolitan city from X&Y, and the Pokemon League from Black & White. With these stages, Wii U would have the major Metropolitan City from Black & White, and the Pokemon League from X&Y. It’s one of those perfect little details that adds credibility and makes it seem like if this is a fake, it’s an incredibly well thought out one.

You gotta have dat Pokemon Stadium in there, and we already know Spear Pillar is out since Palkia is a Pokeball Pokemon, so the returning stage makes perfect sense.

Metroid: 3 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Pyrosphere
Tourian
Norfair*

While I personally would have loved to see a Metroid Prime 3 stage, given how awesome that game’s levels were, Tourian makes sense too. Tourian is the final area of Metroid, Super Metroid, and Metroid Zero Mission, where Mother Brain is fought, and thus is a good choice for representing the Metroid series as a whole in the same nostalgic way that Mute City and Magicant represent their respective franchises.

We don't really know for sure what Pyrosphere's deal is, but it doesn't appear to have a lava hazard, so Norfair's back to be our obligatory "Metroid Lava Stage". Frigate Orpheon was a pretty cool stage, but oh well, gotta keep things consistent.

Kid Icarus: 3 (+2 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Palutena’s Temple
Underworld
Skyworld*

Does Kid Icarus really deserve three stages? No. Is having three stages consistent with its overrepresentation in Sm4sh so far? Definitely. Underworld is a good pick since it is featured in all three Kid Icarus games. If I had to guess, it’ll be based on the Uprising version, simply because there really isn't much to the NES version visually.

Skyworld is the only possibility for a returning stage, and every series that can seems to be getting one.

Fire Emblem: 2 (+1 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Coliseum
Castle Siege*

Already confirmed. As much as Fire Emblem is getting increased representation this time around, I don’t think it’s too unreasonable that it would get only one new stage per console.

Kirby: 4 (+2 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Cookie Country
Mt. Dedede
Patch Land
Halberd *

We haven’t seen any new Kirby stages yet, but we’re definitely going to get at least one, and regardless of “Sakurai Bias”, the Kirby series deserves four stages, especially since there’s been about one new Kirby game a year since Brawl. The first thing that pops out is that Green Greens as gone, leaving us without Whispy Woods for the first time in the series! However, Cookie Country is the first world of Kirby’s Return to Dreamland, and Whispy Woods is the boss, so it could definitely be a revamped Whispy Woods stage to replace Green Greens, perhaps with Whispy himself reworked to be a proper stage boss. Cookie Country is a pretty safe guess regardless.

Patch Land is a little weirder, but given how unique the Epic Yarn aesthetic is, it seems like a solid choice, and represents a recent console title just like Cookie Country does. Patch Land is the name of the world that the whole game takes place in, rather than a specific level, so maybe this could be a transforming stage like the Paper Mario Stage on 3DS. Or it could just be the leaker went with a more generic name for clarity.

Mt. Dedede is the wildcard here. It’s a recurring location in the series, serving as the final level in Kirby’s Dreamland and the Spring Breeze subgame in Kirby Super Star. It’s basically just a generic mountain that Dedede’s castle appears on, which is interesting, because a location in the Subspace Emissary fits that criteria and this stage may draw from that version. In Kirby Super Star, Dedede is fought in a boxing ring, but we already have one of those, so it's highly doubtful this stage will feature the boxing ring. This stage is definitely a possibility, but it’s hard to say for sure what it would look like. Sakurai created the Kirby series, so the way I see it, he can come up with anything he wants.

Update: On 10/5, the Smashbros Facebook shared this picture teasing Orbital Platform as well as a new stage:

The area depicted is pretty clearly The Old Tower from The Great Cave Offensive, a sub-game in Kirby Superstar where you travel around by mine cart. While it's possible that this stage could have been misconstrued as "Mt. Dedede" by the leaker, this is a bit more of a stretch than the situation with the "Game & Wario" and "Great Fox" stages. Until we either find out more about this stage that reveals it to incorporate "Mt. Dedede" in some way, or more stages from the leak list are confirmed, this stage is the biggest piece of evidence against the leak.

Halberd is already confirmed to return.

Starfox: 2 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Great Fox (Orbital Gate)
Lylat Cruise*

Like Game & Wario, the name discrepancy is becoming a real sticking point for people, but considering that the stage prominently features the Great Fox, I really don’t think it’s a disconfirmation. If the leaker only had access to a Japanese build, there’s no way he would be able to guess the name “Orbital Platform” unless he was extremely familiar with Star Fox: Assault, and let’s be honest guys, most people haven’t played a Star Fox game since 64. It’s a shame that Corneria is 3DS exclusive, but Lylat Cruise is the only other option for a returning stage, and at least it’s neutral!

F-Zero: 2 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Mute City
Port Town Aero Dive*

I can definitely see Mute City being a shared stage, seeing as it’s way too awesome, represents the whole series, and the original F-Zero is a console game. I also don’t see them making a stage per console for F-Zero, since it’s on a looooong hiatus and several much more prominent series didn’t get a new stage for 3DS. It’s a little sad to see that Big Blue won’t be coming back, but Port Town: Aero Dive is going to look absolutely incredible in HD, so I can’t complain too much.

Mother: 2

Spoiler

Magicant
Onett*

Everything I said about Mute City applies to Magicant, and Onett has officially been confirmed! Considering Lucas is gone, it’s unsurprising that they would cut New Pork City, and it seems like Palutena’s Temple will scratch the same itch that that stage did anyways.

Pikmin: 2 (+1 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Garden of Hope
Distant Planet*

Distant Planet, like Warioware, is already on 3DS, but was the only stage its series had prior to Sm4sh, so Distant Planet is the only returning stage option for Pikmin.

Animal Crossing: 2 (+ 1 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Town & City
Smashville*

Confirmed!

Punch-Out: 1

Spoiler

Boxing Ring

Already confirmed.

Wii Fit: 1

Spoiler

Wii Fit Studio

Already confirmed.

Xenoblade: 1

Spoiler

Gaur Plains

Already confirmed, although we still don’t know what the deal is with Metal Face...

Rhythm Heaven: 1

Spoiler

Rhythm Heaven

It stands to reason that if Chorus Men are getting a character slot, we would get a Rhythm Heaven stage as well. It'll probably function very similarly to the Warioware stage from Brawl, although there's lots of weird and creative material for a stage based on just a single game, so we'll have to wait and see.

Miis: 2

Spoiler

Pilot Wings
Nintendo Land

The “Mii Series” has two stages on 3DS, so it wouldn’t be too out there for it to get two on Wii U as well. We already have our Wii Sports Resort representation with Pilotwings, so Nintendo Land is a very safe choice, especially considering its crossover nature fits in neatly with Smash. I’m guessing the stage would take place within the theme park itself, but I suppose it could also be a transforming stage that goes through a few games.

Game & Watch: 2

Spoiler

Green House
Flat Zone 2*

If every returning series gets at least one new stage, then Game & Watch gets one too. Greenhouse would be the first G&W stage to focus on just one specific title, but the layout of the Greenhouse is very well suited to a Smash stage, so why not?

Flat Zone 1 wasn’t in Brawl, so even though it’s on 3DS, Flat Zone 2 is the only possibility for a returning stage.

R.O.B.: 1

Spoiler

Gyromite

No reason R.O.B. can’t get his own stage, and veteran series that didn’t have a stage the first time they appeared have always gotten one the second time they’ve appeared. Also, according to the leaker, every series gets a stage, and so R.O.B. gets Gyromite.

Duck Hunt: 1

Spoiler

Shooting Gallery

If every series gets a stage, so does Duck Hunt. I’m guessing this would be a composite stage that combines elements from a few different Nes Zapper games, just like Duck Hunt’s moveset. Maybe an aiming reticle could occasionally fire at players or something. The game Hogan's Alley looks an awful lot like a shooting gallery, so it could be that the leaker saw a Hogan's Alley stage and dubbed it "Shooting Gallery". I doubt that would be the actual name, but maybe.

Sonic:

Spoiler

Windy Hill

Confirmed. Green Hill Zone is already on 3DS and 3rd Party Series don’t need to have more than one stage per console.

Megaman:

Spoiler

Wily’s Castle

Confirmed.

Pac-Man:

Spoiler

Pac-land

Confirmed.

Other:

Spoiler

NES Remix
Endless Ocean


Here are the two big wildcard stages. Ever since Melee, Smash has featured stages that reference classic NES titles, and the Balloon Fight stage on 3DS is just the latest example. NES Remix would be a way for one stage to represent the entire NES era, either as a transforming stage or with one single layout incorporating elements from multiple games. I think it makes a lot of sense.

Endless Ocean is a little more out there, but considering Brawl had “Hanenbow”, there’s a precedent for obscure Nintendo games that are otherwise unrepresented to get a stage. Endless Ocean is basically a deep sea diving simulator for Wii where you essentially just explore the ocean and look at all kinds of different fish. It got a sequel too. The fact that this stage is so out there makes it seem like something a fake leaker wouldn’t include, and there’s no denying the appeal of an underwater Smash stage where you fight while all kinds of majestic sea creatures swim past in glorious HD. That sounds ****ing amazing, and is definitely the kind of “crazy idea” that Sakurai would have.

CONFIRMED/CONFIRMED? DETAILS

Spoiler

Release Date: Many seem to believe that this leak was one of the first mentions of the November 21st international release for the Wii U version. While this is technically true, on the surface it does not appear to be THE first. The twitter leak that initially suggested a November 21st release date actually came out earlier on the same day (1:38 pm) as the first 4chan post (15:12/3:12 pm): https://twitter.com/emi1yrogers/status/510890251985100800

It’s certainly plausible that if the leak is fake, the leaker could have copied the date from this tweet, but given that there was only about an hour and a half between the two, it could really go either way.

BUT...

The timestamp for the 4chan post is in military time. After checking 4chan to confirm that it defaults to the 12 hour clock in America, this led me to believe that the screencap of the 4chan post originated from somewhere in Europe, presumably the UK, given that’s more or less the only European country with a big presence on 4chan. Using a handy dandy time zone converter, I found out that 15:12 in London is about 10:12 am EST (my time zone).

However, twitter timestamps seem to be based on the time zone where the tweet originated from (I changed my clock just to make sure), and Fred Meyer, the store from which the preorder card in the tweet originates, is a chain based almost entirely in the American Norhwest, meaning the 1:38 pm in the tweet is most likely PDT. 15:12 London time is 7:12 am PDT, which means, if my calculations are accurate, then the 4chan post was actually posted 6 hours and 26 minutes BEFORE the tweet, making it the first mention of November 21st after all! DUH DUH DUHHHHH!

If Twitter bases time stamps on IP address instead of internal clock, which it might, then the leak is still nonetheless 3 hours and 26 minutes older than the tweet.

This is definitely strong evidence in the leak’s favor, but bear in mind:

1. There has been no official confirmation from Nintendo yet of a November 21st international release.

And

2. November 21st is a pretty safe guess all around, considering it’s a week before Black Friday and has traditionally been a big day for Nintendo Holiday releases.

Nature of Wii U/3DS connectivity: The leak says that custom characters and unlocked moves/equipment can be shared between consoles, and the description for the “Wii U” menu option on the 3DS confirms this. However, we already knew this. The leaker also clarifies that trophies cannot be shared between games, which makes sense given that the two versions have different sets of trophies. The only truly new information the leaker gives on connectivity is that it will unlock five new characters on 3DS, which is as of now completely unconfirmed by any official source.


Castle Siege: Announced a day (9/19) before the stage list was posted on 4chan (9/20): https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYoL6LijOQ


Game & Wario Stage: The first stage actually predicted by the Tower of Smash leak. Although as many have suggested, it’s a pretty safe guess given that Game & Wario is the most recent console Wario title, especially considering the name doesn’t match. Many have also speculated that “Gamer” may only be one of several scenarios in the stage based on Game & Wario games, similar to the Warioware stage. I personally find this unlikely, but it’s another plausible explanation for the name discrepancy.


Great Fox Stage: We got a tease of the stage months ago, so the leak didn’t really predict this at all.

Onett & Smashville: On 10/3, these two stages were revealed in the pictures on Ness and Wario's character pages, making them the second and third confirmed stages to be predicted by the leak. Onett was a pretty safe guess given that it's such a classic and beloved stage that represents its series well. However, many people thought that Smashville was too redundant to return, making its confirmation mean a lot more as far as confirming the leak.

@ J Joeyd123 @Venus of the Desert Bloom Can we update the the OP with this?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Ok, I'm gonna give some input on this Tower of Smash leak. Now I actually found some interesting stuff about the leak that I'm gonna say cause interesting. It's not gonna prove anything, but it might raise a few eyebrows. Now, you see, the "leaker" has a bunch of Melee stages listed to return. Now, the weird thing here is this. The music tracks for these stages are all actually bonus tracks on the 3DS Smash Bros. Weird right? At first I was like, "Eh, why would they be bonus tracks if the stages were gonna playable at any point" but then Onett was confirmed. I don't know, it's certainly strange. Who knows though. Maybe it's a coincidence.

Edit:Well today I called Nintendo of America to ask about the Tower of Smash leak. When I mentioned the leak, they didn't seem to know what i was talking about. I decided to ask if there would be additional characters on the Wii U Smash. They guy I was talking to said there would be. I asked if they were Impa, Ridley, Chorus Kids, Mewtwo, and Dixie and his reaction was I quote "That definitely sounds familiar". So now we have proof of the Tower of Smash leak. It's confirmed

Look, I don't want to come off as rude, but we've already had this thread locked once because of a troll. You just joined today, you have a total of 8 posts, and every one has been this same topic. If you're here for attention, we're not interested. We're all excited over this leak, but muddying the waters with unverifiable information isn't helping anybody.

Not sure if you're new to this whole thing, or if this is a commonplace activity for you, but regardless you shouldn't be spouting off things like this without evidence. For all we know, you could be the guy who was banned for trolling us last week on a new account. If you're being legitimate, I do apologize, but we have to watch each other's backs around here - and this is the kind of thing that's usually a problem for us. If you have evidence of this confirmation, we will listen.

People stop forgetting that the 3ds had arrow buttons hidden , which can help to the fact that not all characters fit in one page but in a second page

If you shrink the icons to fit a 10th column as I've demonstrated in my last post, you could actually fit both arrow buttons on either side of the new sixth row - but that's after making room for the characters we're suspecting and then some, so that really is asking for too much. They aren't strictly necessary to confirm 5 (or even 10) more characters.

 

[domokl]

Any potd could make or break it at this point. Stage please sakurai! end the suffering!

 

[Malkior7]

Came across this supposed leak, And it lines up with this one due to the tourian stage, though it could easily be fake
http://ssb4dojo.com/post/98467541939/rumor-mill-bandana-dee-and-ridley-trailers

hmmm the detail in both trailer descriptions are actually rather believable (regardless I'm still taking with a grain of salt) the details seems pretty balanced

 

[PeterJude]

Any potd could make or break it at this point. Stage please sakurai! end the suffering!

It really couldn't. We've already had stages that were named and seemed very different, but we've moved those goalposts.

Anything that "confirms" it can be argued against as a "lucky guess" or coincidence.

Even if things start to pile up for it, not all details have to be true, they could have gotten hold of the list from an image of the stage select and then went on to make up the stuff about characters and even Tower of Smash.

No matter what they give us, anything short of "Introducing Tower of Smash" won't confirm it, especially not stages, and even then, Tower of Smash is still not confirmation of the characters.

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

Ok, I'm gonna give some input on this Tower of Smash leak. Now I actually found some interesting stuff about the leak that I'm gonna say cause interesting. It's not gonna prove anything, but it might raise a few eyebrows. Now, you see, the "leaker" has a bunch of Melee stages listed to return. Now, the weird thing here is this. The music tracks for these stages are all actually bonus tracks on the 3DS Smash Bros. Weird right? At first I was like, "Eh, why would they be bonus tracks if the stages were gonna playable at any point" but then Onett was confirmed. I don't know, it's certainly strange. Who knows though. Maybe it's a coincidence.

Look, I don't want to come off as rude, but we've already had this thread locked once because of a troll. You just joined today, you have a total of 8 posts, and every one has been this same topic. If you're here for attention, we're not interested. We're all excited over this leak, but muddying the waters with unverifiable information isn't helping anybody.

Not sure if you're new to this whole thing, or if this is a commonplace activity for you, but regardless you shouldn't be spouting off things like this without evidence. For all we know, you could be the guy who was banned for trolling us last week on a new account. If you're being legitimate, I do apologize, but we have to watch each other's backs around here - and this is the kind of thing that's usually a problem for us. If you have evidence of this confirmation, we will listen.



If you shrink the icons to fit a 10th column as I've demonstrated in my last post, you could actually fit both arrow buttons on either side of the new sixth row - but that's after making room for the characters we're suspecting and then some, so that really is asking for too much. They aren't strictly necessary to confirm 5 (or even 10) more characters.

I'm not trolling. Though my call I guess isn't confirmation, the stuff I put about the music tracks is real, and you can view it. It's just a bit of neat stuff that makes the leak seem just a bit more likely. I don't have evidence of the call sorry, but if I call back I'll record in case I get the same results.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

I wouldn't worry about calling back. People have done this before and asked about characters like Ridley. The employees end up just telling people what they want to hear so they can get off the phone, or make something up because they don't know.

 

[Dyguren]

It really couldn't. We've already had stages that were named and seemed very different, but we've moved those goalposts.

Anything that "confirms" it can be argued against as a "lucky guess" or coincidence.

Even if things start to pile up for it, not all details have to be true, they could have gotten hold of the list from an image of the stage select and then went on to make up the stuff about characters and even Tower of Smash.

No matter what they give us, anything short of "Introducing Tower of Smash" won't confirm it, especially not stages, and even then, Tower of Smash is still not confirmation of the characters.

I really doubt that a stage like endless ocean is a lucky guess by any chance. People who deny every time a chance of something being more and more close to being trure, they are just ppl in denial. That's all there is to it. The more official announcements we get that fits with the rumor, the more its chances increase of being true, whether ppl want to accept it or deny it, that's just how rumors work. And as I said, not every single detail is a lucky guess, there is a point where things stop being a coincidence. I'm pretty sure that if we get to a point that 50% of the stages in the list are confirmed, there would be no way in hell that it's still something to call "lucky guesses", like seriously, luck is not something that happens 20 times in a row, unless your are blessed or something, lol.

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

Does anyone else have this weird feeling that maybe Nintendo of America was messing with us by posting PoTDs that correlated with the tower of smash leak just to watch the smash fan base implode, and some courageous employee bravely leaked the great cave offensive stage in hopes of showing the fanbase that the leak is false and the speculating should stop. He failed if that's true.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

Does anyone else have this weird feeling that maybe Nintendo of America was messing with us by posting PoTDs that correlated with the tower of smash leak just to watch the smash fan base implode, and some courageous employee bravely leaked the great cave offensive stage in hopes of showing the fanbase that the leak is false and the speculating should stop. He failed if that's true.

Nah. It'd be Sakurai anyway, not Nintendo of America. The PotD's are the same worldwide.

Now, having said that, Sakurai and co. were definitely aware of the ESRB leak. If the leak is true, then I guess you could say that Sakurai had been hinting at it with Gamer and all. But it could also just be pure coincidence.

Personally, I'm looking forward to more hidden characters being revealed. We should get some new stages that way.

 

[VenomSymbiote]

Have you taken the 3DS's screen resolution into account? Given that the top screen has a resolution of 400x240, I played around a bit within that resolution. I removed the character names off of your icons and made sure they were perfectly square in order to match their appearance in game. By shrinking the icons down a bit, we can add a 10th column, which gives us...

Spoiler

View attachment 26896

...a sixth row! I didn't bother rearranging the characters - I just wanted to show how all icons could physically fit - but not only can we fit every character in this leak, we also have room for 5 more, potentially through DLC in the future. The important part to realize is that due to the icons' square size, adding the 10th column naturally creates enough room for a 6th row (hooray, geometry!). Now, this does ignore the fact that there are arrows hiding in the code, which could potentially be used to scroll to other pages, but this layout shows they wouldn't be necessary.

What I don't get about the CSS if there are no characters to fill in the glaring gaps in it: Why not just size the character boxes accordingly? Make them rectangular and fit them all into the screen to fill it completely. I don't think it'd be much harder to distinguish what character was which except for maybe Dark Pit and Pit to an extent, or Mario/Dr Mario. Then again, there's a "clone corner", so that wouldn't be an issue as is to begin with. Could anyone resize the boxes to fill the css completely within the 3DS top screen resolution with the characters that are in the 3DS version as of now to see how it'd look? Just feels like they could have easily filled the top screen without much trouble to me without the empty spaces, and that the empty spaces will quite possibly be filled later. Hopefully from the Wii U version.

Plus I can't get over Sakurai commenting on Mewtwo if he wasn't going to try his damnedest to deliver which doesn't seem the case to me seeing as we got Dr. Mario and Dark Pit. So either he did try, and get Mewtwo in, or he really should not have spoke up during that XY event at all.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

Plus I can't get over Sakurai commenting on Mewtwo if he wasn't going to try his damnedest to deliver which doesn't seem the case to me seeing as we got Dr. Mario and Dark Pit. So either he did try, and get Mewtwo in, or he really should not have spoke up during that XY event at all.

Sakurai simply said "We're thinking about it," not "We're working on it." We are not entitled to anything just because Sakurai mentioned a character being considered.

Also, Dark Pit and Dr. Mario took very little development time because they're clones. The argument that they took other character's places has never held any weight.

 

[Koopaul]

Yeah if any characters "took other character's places" it's all the original newcomers. Why? Those are the ones he chose to work on first when it came to new characters. Those are the ones that actually took time and creativity to make. So in some ways, he chose Wii Fit Trainer over Mewtwo.

 

[VenomSymbiote]

Sakurai simply said "We're thinking about it," not "We're working on it." We are not entitled to anything just because Sakurai mentioned a character being considered.

Also, Dark Pit and Dr. Mario took very little development time because they're clones. The argument that they took other character's places has never held any weight.

Oh I wasn't implying they took anyones place. Just that they are there but characters like Mewtwo aren't. Like "Here's these guys we made in three minutes. Mewtwo? Nah that would have taken effort."

As for the comment about Mewtwo during the XY event, why even bring it up if he wasn't 100% sure about what they were going to do? If he was something they hadn't solidified yet, he shouldn't give people false hope which he's stated to hate doing. If he had no intention of adding him at all he shouldn't have commented. It's just giving fans false hope, you know? Which he "supposedly" hates doing.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Oh I wasn't implying they took anyones place. Just that they are there but characters like Mewtwo aren't. Like "Here's these guys we made in three minutes. Mewtwo? Nah that would have taken effort."

As for the comment about Mewtwo during the XY event, why even bring it up if he wasn't 100% sure about what they were going to do? If he was something they hadn't solidified yet, he shouldn't give people false hope which he's stated to hate doing. If he had no intention of adding him at all he shouldn't have commented. It's just giving fans false hope, you know? Which he "supposedly" hates doing.

Same goes for Ridley - Why tease him for so long if he's going to be a boss character? Why not come clean and admit it, because I've seen what people said when they saw Mewtwo's trophy. It wasn't pretty at all. The MOST WANTED VETERAN just nope.avi'd. Why? What would he gain from such negativity, not adding in the most wanted Melee veteran?

 

[Joeyd123]

@ J Joeyd123 @Venus of the Desert Bloom Can we update the the OP with this?

What do you want me to update?

 

[XLIFE]

Smash Wii U releases December 5th in Europe and 6th in Japan. Unless NoA gets a super early release of Nov 21st I'm afraid this might be the nail in the coffin for ToS...Nov 21st for US!!

 

[Aeon Lupin]

Smash Wii U releases December 5th in Europe and 6th in Japan. Unless NoA gets a super early release of Nov 21st I'm afraid this might be the nail in the coffin for ToS...

Where did you get this?

edit: Nevermind, found it, and it states its coming out on the 21 of november of North America, so the leak still holds.

 

[Naoshi]

Where did you get this?

Main site (US) says 11/21/14.

It should be noted that the Nov 21st release date was leaked shortly before Tower of Smash popped up though.

 

[XLIFE]

Where did you get this?

Official announcement from Nintendo!!!

 

[Aeon Lupin]

Main site (US) says 11/21/14.

It should be noted that the Nov 21st release date was leaked shortly before Tower of Smash popped up though.

Read LerperchaunLink's analysis, he goes on to explain why the leak actually could have been the first to mention it.

 

[Naoshi]

Read LerperchaunLink's analysis, he goes on to explain why the leak actually could have been the first to mention it.

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/rumor-....-wii-u-release-date-as-november#.VDPTDVewRLN

This one popped up in July 21st and wasn't the first to do so.

I feel bad for doing this because I want the leak to be real too.

 

[Strofirko]

32 pics of the days until there.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

What I don't get about the CSS if there are no characters to fill in the glaring gaps in it: Why not just size the character boxes accordingly? Make them rectangular and fit them all into the screen to fill it completely.

It seems unlikely that the character icons would change to rectangles, since they're always square no matter how many characters you have unlocked. Plus, squares are geometrically awesome. I didn't have to do any special photo manipulation beyond shrinking them uniformly in order to create the sixth row - it happened naturally due to the dimensions of the images within the screen resolution we're working with, something I'm sure went into the process of deciding to use squares in the first place. With DLC, nothing's impossible and you could be right, but I would think they'd want to keep the square shape and have some room to play with.

If it's the extra 5 spaces in the bottom row that's bugging you, they could play around with centering, moving someone from up top down below to even it up, etc. You could even fit those arrow icons down there on either side, which, if I recall correctly, aren't actually squares.

Sidenote: Release date HYPE!!

 

[Aenglaan]

@ TheTrueCorrectGuy

Would it be possible to give us a screen cap for proof of this? That would help, if what you're saying is true.

 

[domokl]

so it just got the release date right... hype?

 

[Doompatron3000]

November 21st, 2014. Get ready America

 

[BluePikmin11]

so it just got the release date right... hype?

Nah, every leaker was betting on that, it helps the leak by a very little percentage.

 

[Maxoxpower]

really like : nov 21 FOR THE US.it's important and don't deconfirmed anything.
nov 21 was a rumor way before this leak but (for the us only ) is a good thing!

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Why do i have a feeling hes going to show a usa hype character just before the release like he did with shulk for japan

(One of the 5 prooving transfer to 3ds/patch release for the 3ds version/dlc a thing)

 

[Burb]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/69690185

The 21st has been reported by July at earliest. So it really doesn't mean much.

 

[Luigi#1]

Ok, I'm gonna give some input on this Tower of Smash leak. Now I actually found some interesting stuff about the leak that I'm gonna say cause interesting. It's not gonna prove anything, but it might raise a few eyebrows. Now, you see, the "leaker" has a bunch of Melee stages listed to return. Now, the weird thing here is this. The music tracks for these stages are all actually bonus tracks on the 3DS Smash Bros. Weird right? At first I was like, "Eh, why would they be bonus tracks if the stages were gonna playable at any point" but then Onett was confirmed. I don't know, it's certainly strange. Who knows though. Maybe it's a coincidence.

Edit:Well today I called Nintendo of America to ask about the Tower of Smash leak. When I mentioned the leak, they didn't seem to know what i was talking about. I decided to ask if there would be additional characters on the Wii U Smash. They guy I was talking to said there would be. I asked if they were Impa, Ridley, Chorus Kids, Mewtwo, and Dixie and his reaction was I quote "That definitely sounds familiar". So now we have proof of the Tower of Smash leak. It's confirmed

...
You have no way of proving this. If telling the truth, good for you, you know something we don't. If your BSing, which you probably are, **** off.

 

[Dyguren]

Thank goodness it's 21st November for US....

...
You have no way of proving this. If telling the truth, good for you, you know something we don't. If your BSing, which you probably are, **** off.

Seriously tho, i don't understand how someone being new to a forum has less credibility than anyone else who has been here for a long time who can be a troll as well. Just do what everyone says they do, take it with a grain of salt, just don't be a d*ck about it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Why do i have a feeling hes going to show a usa hype character just before the release like he did with shulk for japan

(One of the 5 prooving transfer to 3ds/patch release for the 3ds version/dlc a thing)

This makes too much sense. Why are we getting it before even Japan? Particularly with the Sakurai-bias we've seen thus far. The only thing I can think of is that NoA is trying to push SSB4U for black friday in order to drum up holiday console sales, but that doesn't explain then why Japan has to wait. I also find it suspicious that they just posted the release without any fanfare.

They're planning something, I just hope that that something involves a certain purple space dragon and a certain mutant lab experiment gone wrong..