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Toon Link Match-up Video and Critique Thread

MJG

MJG

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Avoid grabbing (or being near) falco at low percentages. You whiffed a grab and got CG'd because of it.

Whether 1:13 was intentional or not, that was pretty cool. I think you joined my list of "TLs that I have stolen stuff from" (everyone has done this lol).

I noticed that you like to throw the bomb up when you see falco using his reflector. Remember that you can bait the reflector out and just do "Zair>Bomb throw"

After you got down to your last stock, I would try to avoid being too close to falco since he can still CG you. Camp it up on the platforms until you are past 35 or so (forgot the exact percentage).

Clutch finish..Good Job.
 
Death Arcana

Death Arcana

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nyuu? nyuu!!
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ya that was intentional
southpaw taught me that little zair trick :p
thanks for the critique
that grab at 0:25 was the dumbest thing ever!
toon link can't even shield grab falco for his ****ty nair?
**** our grab lol
i have a habit that i need to work on where i will cancel our airdodge to zair way too fast
i waste out on that valuable invincibility. baiting the reflector is really hard for me cause of that
 
southpaw

southpaw

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oh ya i did even tho everyone should kno that its the demonic zair from demonic toon link (name search bait?)
 
southpaw

southpaw

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^pj's newest alt? and lol at throwin out projo's name, he's never had a swf account and hardly plays anymore
 
z00ted

z00ted

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I hate it so much when some idiot decides it would be a bright idea to call someones alternate account by thier real smash tag its an alt for a reason ******

-Shadow1pj
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

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Hey Toon Link boards. :D I'm fairly new to TL but I was wondering if I could get some critique. I'm considering picking him up as a secondary for my Marth, just because he can camp so well (though he doesn't have to). Here is a link to the first and only tourney match I have actually played with TL.

Spade vs. Player-1 (Diddy Kong): 1/28/2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IyVJfWj1ZkM#t=293s

Any tips besides not Zairing a Diddy with a naner in hand and not using quickdraw when my opponent is too close? I was just getting read, IMO. Sorry I only have one match, but hopefully when I go to a tourney in a couple of weeks I can get some more vids. Any help would be appreciated. :]
 
MJG

MJG

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Keys1281 said:
Hey Toon Link boards. :D I'm fairly new to TL but I was wondering if I could get some critique. I'm considering picking him up as a secondary for my Marth, just because he can camp so well (though he doesn't have to). Here is a link to the first and only tourney match I have actually played with TL.

Spade vs. Player-1 (Diddy Kong): 1/28/2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IyVJfWj1ZkM#t=293s

Any tips besides not Zairing a Diddy with a naner in hand and not using quickdraw when my opponent is too close? I was just getting read, IMO. Sorry I only have one match, but hopefully when I go to a tourney in a couple of weeks I can get some more vids. Any help would be appreciated. :]
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There are characters that can camp way better than TL. With that factor, along with you wanting to pick him up as a secondary, it will make things pretty hard for you since TL is not a character that you can really "secondary" and hope to do well with.

Anyways, you had free damage around 6:40 when the Diddy Kong player used f smash. Try not to turn around just to use fair. It is a good aerial but it doesn't help you combo nearly as well as TL's bair (Arguably, one of his best moves). I actually saw you use fair a lot when bair was more appropriate. I guess that is what happens when you go from using marth to TL lol

7:34 was a REALLY unsafe bomb pull. Try to watch for that next time because you ate a lot of damage because of that one mistake.

Something that I can say that you do with TL that impresses me (considering the fact that you are using him as a secondary) is that you aren't really throwing projectiles just to be throwing them.

Keep it up..
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

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MJG said:
Stuff
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Yeah, the reason I want to go TL against Diddy is because Player-1 has so much practice against P3's Marth, and we have an extremely similar playstyle. Also I just don't feel as safe camping with Falco as I do with Toon Link, I guess because TL has so many projectiles to bait, condition, and actually damage your opponent with.

Thanks for the input :)


Does anyone else want to help out? I only got a couple of pointers....
 
N

NH Cody

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Keys1281 said:
Does anyone else want to help out? I only got a couple of pointers....
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Yeah...as MJG suggested, it's quite clear that you thought you were playing Marth sometimes xD

You approached way too often with aerials, especially short hop airdodge zair (I don't even think this is safe against Diddy) and full hop/short hop fair. It isn't Marth fair lol, it doesn't have as much range or speed. Full hop fair is an odd choice...it rarely works.

In general, you had a bit of a spotdodge habit, and an even tinier roll habit. It would probably be more beneficial for you to jump and throw a retreating boomerang, or run away and then throw a projectile than to roll. At the edge, you frequently used the standard getup attack. Mix it up more with ledge drop bomb pull shenanigans and jumping from the ledge. More grounded bomb throws would help, since bombs go through Diddy's bananas.

Use less fair, more bair and nair to get your opponent off you, much more camping, more mixups, less rolling, less spotdodging, less sitting in shield, and more running way. Don't always chase your opponent with uair looking to kill him, especially at 93% (8:03). It's okay to play different characters, but you can't exactly transfer your playstyle from one to the other. As I tell all new TL players, watch at least a few matches of high level TL players on youtube, such as Jash, MJG, kingtoon, Jerm, or PJ. It will give you new ideas for mixups, making your playstyle faster and safer, and reading your opponents. Hope this helps.
 
Keys1281

Keys1281

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~Quest~ said:
More stuff
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Thank you very much! I actually have watched quite a few matches of hyro, MJG, jerm, and some other TLs on YouTube, though that has been since that match. I suppose Fairing is a bad habit I get from being a Marth main. Everything you said I will put into account next time I am given the opportunity. Lol the Marth boards are pretty lazy (or preoccupied with other stuff) about giving critique as quickly and abundantly.
 
Musketeer04

Musketeer04

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Thank you, my game-play has changed a lot since then. I use more Zairs like you said and i don't focus on the spike anymore. Too many SD.
 
S

.SirLink.

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Yeah dair isnt that great of a move to spam. But if you can manage to use it in an unpredicted way, then it can be pretty beastly. Iv'e been using it like that lately. xD at Dair > dair > dair combos. Dair works best on brinstar imo.
 
MJG

MJG

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Musketeer04 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJDjQecDRfw

Any constructive criticism is appreciated.
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Felt like I was being trolled

southpaw said:
Anyone? ^^^
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World of Goo! From what I saw, it seems like you just got caught off guard by a lot of the stuff that Fatal was doing. Also, don't start of a match approaching snake like that. Starting off a match with boomerang against snake is actually a good idea (it will stop them if they decide to use Up Smash) but don't approach him while doing so. YOu took unneeded damage right from the start.

Fatal reacted to your roll too slow when you got down throw. So, you were able to get away with no damage after you were put on the ground during game 1. Laying there and doing nothing is a good option against snake (if you're not in kill range) since he can't jab reset you (and then grab you) and you can pop up if he f tilts you (snake has to have some sort of weird spacing on this though). This helps since some snake mains will leave their current position and you will be able to get up freely. Watch out for snake's dair though lol. If the snake player decides to use it, SDI away


Good patience on Fatal's second stock during game 2

ShadowTl said:
I got some videos from a smashfest last week uploaded.

Moneymatch against diddy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdLoN6qYCgY

Moneymatch against luigi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=216PbQKbZgk

Any advice would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Try to stay in diddy's face more. Fighting diddy is good since he won't have time to use his bananas properly. Bombs go through bananas and they also make bananas pop back up. Zair, nair and bair are safe on diddy's shield if you space it properly.


I didn't have time to watch the luigi match. That MU is pretty straight forward though. Don't let him get close to you at all. Arrows are good in this MU since it stops his tornado move (it's good for closing space). Don't grab in this MU. TL can easily die at 40%. Don't force the kill or you will die lol
 
WindMajor

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You were playing scared, weren't you? I saw you freak out all over the place, spot dodging and rolling everywhere like if you weren't looking at the game from the opponent's perspective.

You gotta learn how to get out of binds like that, and the first step would be to watch the game focusing on your opponent, and watching Toon Link from your peripheral vision. If you understand how he's going to approach, then you'll understand which option would be best to avoid getting hit during his approach. You can't get flustered because then you start losing your focus, and things will happen to you before you even realize it.

That's the biggest thing that I saw in that match, you fumbling around in desperation. It looked like you were playing while focusing on Toon Link, which makes things harder.
 
N

NH Cody

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Twinkie speaks wisely...not to mention how you stupidly approached again and again...and again...

keep in mind this Marth player does not edgeguard properly with nair and dtilt, failed to capitalize on your mechanical airdodging habits (I could make a LIST of times when he should have used nair/dtilt/delayed fair for this purpose), missed several easy punish opportunities, rolled like CRAZY, and was often reckless with short hop fair. I'm facepalming at 3:36 when he sits in shield dumbfounded instead of grabbing you.

Thus, you should consider the fact that better Marth players would be making you suffer for every little mistake and misspacing. Especially in this matchup, it is critical to take control and put pressure on your opponent and avoid "fumbling around" as Twinkie was saying. So mix it up more, predict his aerial approaches and punish more with iBomb, and space your zairs.
 
MJG

MJG

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Twinkie said:
You were playing scared, weren't you? I saw you freak out all over the place, spot dodging and rolling everywhere like if you weren't looking at the game from the opponent's perspective.

You gotta learn how to get out of binds like that, and the first step would be to watch the game focusing on your opponent, and watching Toon Link from your peripheral vision. If you understand how he's going to approach, then you'll understand which option would be best to avoid getting hit during his approach. You can't get flustered because then you start losing your focus, and things will happen to you before you even realize it.

That's the biggest thing that I saw in that match, you fumbling around in desperation. It looked like you were playing while focusing on Toon Link, which makes things harder.
Click to expand...
Godlike .
 
BadKarma

BadKarma

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MJG said:
Avoid grabbing (or being near) falco at low percentages. You whiffed a grab and got CG'd because of it.

Whether 1:13 was intentional or not, that was pretty cool. I think you joined my list of "TLs that I have stolen stuff from" (everyone has done this lol).

I noticed that you like to throw the bomb up when you see falco using his reflector. Remember that you can bait the reflector out and just do "Zair>Bomb throw"

After you got down to your last stock, I would try to avoid being too close to falco since he can still CG you. Camp it up on the platforms until you are past 35 or so (forgot the exact percentage).

Clutch finish..Good Job.
Click to expand...
at 1:13 how do you do this? Every time I try it I always grab the ledge.
 
Anragon

Anragon

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Hey guys, I want your advices/thoughts if you can about that Bo5 i've done at my Smashfest, please. The guy i've fought begins to know the match-up so it was more difficult than usual (I know the MU too). Oh and I won :D

Match n°1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gku4ba1o2WQ

(There are links to the others matches in the video)

Thanks in advance :)
 
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