The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

[BluePikmin11]

Going to tag @Brawler610 for Bomberman's day.
I think the standard bombs work fine for Bomberman and should really be the basis for his moveset, he doesn't need other elemental bombs to be even more unique.
I'm going to give him a B+

 

[Pacack]

My issue with Bomberman is that, while we haven't seen a character like him, he still uses one weapon, just in different ways (just like a sword user does).

I'm going to have to give him a C+ because of that.

 

[DaDavid]

I don't think it's very fair to knock him based on that, especially when ideas have already been floated to suggest that he'd be different compared to the current cast.

Honestly if that were how we did this, it'd be damn near impossible to get out of C territory just because trivialities like that. Too humanoid, kicks and punches, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

Aw yeah! I've been waiting for this! Time for some mass destruction across this thread! Thanks for tagging me, Blue!

1. How many diverse options does this character have?
He has a ton of games to work with and would be easy to create a moveset with.
He has a jetpack and a helicopter to use as a recovery... but of course his main gameplay is all about the bombs.
His bombs aren't your stereotypical bombs that Link has or items in Smash (like the Motion Sensor Bomb). Bomberman could carry his bombs and make them absolutely huge, thus causing a more devastating explosive. He can also lay his bombs on the ground while he is moving around on the battlefield.
Bomberman can also be a rather powerful character when he isn't using his own bombs. So, he can be a rather powerful opponent close quarters and from a distance.


2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
His name his Bomberman; his diverse abilities come from his bombs.
He mainly uses fire bombs, but he can also use wind bombs, electric bombs, magma bombs, water bombs, ice bombs. There is so much that he could do that he could easily separate himself from the rest of the cast.
With Sakurai promoting uniqueness in Smash 4, Bomberman proves to be extraordinarily unique. Mega Man has his Robot Master's weapons and projectiles, but Bomberman's explosive moveset would sure to make him a standout among the cast of characters. We've seen characters use explosives, but Bomberman would mainly use bombs as a part of his moveset.
Just to see what he could do if he was in Smash, check out this video of Dream Mix TV World Fighters:

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
Not at all.
One can argue that Snake has done this concept before, but Snake isn't known to use explosives as much as a person with the freaking word bomb in his name!
Bomberman is all about strategy and thinking things through to plan out an attack on your opponent. This would be reflective in his moveset as you have to think if it's appropriate to throw or drop bombs or even kick them, what kind of bomb to use, and whether you want to use bombs or not. If one explodes on Bomberman, Bomberman will get harmed. So, his gameplay style would be all about tactics, strategy, and outsmarting your opponent.


4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Of course. I bet that Smash fans will get a kick from his moveset and abilities and would love to main him. Even the biggest of doubters will be swayed by how unique Bomberman could be.


5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
I extremely doubt any character in Smash will look like Bomberman.
He has a distinctive big head with thin eyes; his design would be easy to spot.


6. Does it fit the character well enough?
In terms of fitting in with the rest of the cast, I am aware that Sakurai noted that 3rd parties are hard to implement as he needs to try to make them fit in. Bomberman would easily fit in due to the cartoony nature of his series; the graphics in his games screams Nintendo. He would by far one of the easiest third party characters to implement and fit in Smash.


Overall: S+
Can I go this high?
Bomberman oozes potential and I bet that Sakurai would handle the character beautifully. It's just a shame that he is having a difficult time getting in Smash nowadays...

Shameless Advertising
Wanna help support Bomberman in Smash? Come to the Bomberman support thread, click "Yes" on the poll, and you will instantly be a supporter! (If you say "No", then you make me very sad... and if you will say "No", then don't come)
Also, leave a comment on the thread if you like!
If you wanna access the thread, click the link to it in my signature! If you are having trouble getting to the thread or can't see my signature (for the Guests that could be seeing this), here is the link and take your time reading the OP!:
http://smashboards.com/threads/mass-destruction-across-the-land-bomberman-explodes-in.325908/

 

[DaDavid]

Alright given all that, my vote (is that even how this works haha?) Still goes to A. The description about strategy and all that still pretty much suggests Snake to me (at least the way I've seen him played.) BUT, it's Snake multiplied by 10 considering Bomberman can kick his bombs, pump them up, and use different types obviously.

I honestly don't see how he could be any lower than A, but S is hard since it's all just been praising him vaguely and no one has really put forth an actual legit move set.

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly don't see how he could be any lower than A, but S is hard since it's all just been praising him vaguely and no one has really put forth an actual legit move set.

Hahaha... I'm not the best at this.

As for a moveset, here are the specials that I made up:

Spoiler

Neutral Special: Bomb Throw: Bomberman would throw a bomb. It would cause decent knock back and it has some range. If you hold the special move button down, you can hold the bomb and it will get bigger. This will, in turn, cause a better explosion, but the throwing range is worse. Not only that, but the time to detonate the bomb becomes longer and other players can pick it up; the bomb could be as heavy as a barrel or crate. This is a mostly high risk and high reward move if you decide to make the bomb bigger and it's rather situational.

Side Special: Bomb Lay: Bomberman leaves a trail of bombs on the ground. As you run and tap the special move button, Bomberman would lay a bomb on the ground; you can leave up to as many as 3 bombs as possible. It can be used in the air, but the bomb goes straight down. You can hold these bombs and make them bigger. The bombs don't explode on impact and take 5 seconds to detonate.

Down Special: Bomb Kick: Bomberman kicks a bomb towards an opponent. When the bomb hits an opponent before it explodes, it will cause minimal damage and even stun them for a bit. However, the opponent can also pick up and throw the bomb. You can make these bombs bigger. This is a power-up Bomberman can get in numerous games.

Up Special: Jetpack: Bomberman has to charge up his jetpack and then go high into the sky! It causes some damage, but it's mainly used as a recovery. It works much like Diddy Kong's Rocketbarrel Boost as you need to charge it to get maximum height. This move originated from Bomberman Blast.

Final Smash: Light Bomb: This bomb appeared in Bomberman 64: The Second Attack. The mechanics of the bomb work differently than it did in that game. Bomberman would detonate the bomb and the explosion follows wherever Bomberman goes. Those caught in the blast radius will not be able to get out until the Final Smash is done; the attack is essentially a moving version of Ho-Oh's attack. Bomberman is also invincible during this time. The Final Smash ends after 10 seconds.

I'll eventually work on a full moveset with tilts and smashes, but I haven't found the time.

 

[OctiVick]

I'll just throw this video of him in SSF2 to show what can be done in a smash game, and you can tell that his move-set dose have some ideas from Dream TV mix

Anyway I would assume he would focus on setups involving his bombs. The specials in his move-set would focus on setting up his bombs by throwing them, dropping them, kicking them into position, and detonating them when the time is right, we haven't seem a character focus as much on setups before. Although the idea of an explosive fighter has been done his special would be something new. The big thing that would hurt him would be the rest of his move-set, he never had much physical fighting besides bombs so they would just have to fill more moves with some generic ones or ones that have history but come off as generic like I said about Pac-Man and Sonic. Body type is basic but with a much more simplistic look which is nothing new.

His final grade is a basic B

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah, this is why Bomberman's elemental bombs aren't really needed to make him more unique. The way he uses the bombs is a new gameplay style on it's own.
He's all about the bombs, not the types of bombs.

 

[andimidna]

Ehh... a bomb-based moveset?
Link and Toon Link already have different bombs.
And other characters have bomb-like attacks. Like Snake, Samus, and others.
Bombs with larger hitboxes, while needed for gameplay purposes, wouldn't bring much.
I've always thought of him as one of the least unique choices...
C+?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Alrighty I'm going to have to do a quicky update for this one.

Today we are rating the puzzle-solving gentleman, Professor Layton. Can he prove that his fencing and and use of bizarre gadgets prove to be unique at the highest?

Remember analyses are recommended.

I think i will tag @ Curious Villager @ fogbadge and @ D-idara for Professor Layton's day.

 

[D-idara]

Well, Layton's moveset would certainly feel a little disjointed because of the uniqueness itself, he builds many different gadgets and uses many different things during the games so a lot of work would have to be put into him to make his moveset feel like part of a bigger machine, but I don't hate disjointed movesets like G&W's, so whatever. The english gentleman has several tools at his disposal, not to mention his fencing skills, although I do think that he should prioritize the Pipe over the Sword for a Smash moveset, since the most memorable 'sword' battles have happened with Layton actually using a pipe he broke off some mechanism, although I wouldn't rule out the sword from Diabolical Box entirely, because the pipe could hit while the sword could slash, making his moveset a little more varied in nature. I feel like integrating his love of puzzles into the moveset would either be disastrous or amazing, depending on how it's done, but Layton certainly has enough material to draw from before resorting to the series' puzzles.

Visually...I think he fits right in with Nintendo's characters because of his cartoonish appearance, even though Layton gets really serious at times. His character model would obviously be very tall, but I'm guessing the hat wouldn't have a hitbox, maybe swipe over his head for a moment like in Diabolical Box? Layton could be considered to have slightly dull colors, but Azran Legacy did a fantastic job at making his 3D model burst with life, so I'm not worried, considering how amazing and eye-popping the models on this game look.

I'd put him on A+ because even though all of his moves are unique and quirky in the way they mash together, he still doesn't bring anything new gameplay-wise, like Rosalina, Megaman or Little Mac, who have their own niches. Layton would be a little more of a balanced fighter with more than a few tricks up his sleeve, although I still can't figure out his Final Smash...maybe the...
[collapse=SPOILER ALERT FOR LAYTON AND THE AZRAN LEGACY]The Azran Golems? Although it'd probably be too similar to Pit's previous FS.[/collapse]

 

[fogbadge]

of course layton would be unique

a moveset based on some of the most recurring types of puzzles well certainly separate him from other characters
he could shove the moving blocks, there have been plenty of puzzles about things leaping over each other, so having layton leaping over such a thing could work of a recovery move

and of course if need be there's always throwing hot tea

and in theory he would be different from other puzzle game characters, for example ashley m robbbins, due to the different nature of the puzzles in their respective games they could both easily have movesets based on their puzzles without there begin to many similarities

 

[BluePikmin11]

Based his visual and potential moveset, I could say he could really be a very diverse character, but since he doesn't really bring anything new gameplay-wise, I'm going to give him an A+.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Layton: A-
Professor Layton is in a weird spot for a moveset. He doesn't really fight very often, but he has the skills you would expect from an English Gentleman. Layton is a talented fencer and could bring that to his moveset. A strict swordsman isn't exactly what we want in a newcomer. Layton is known for his puzzle solving, so he could draw moves from his better known puzzles and/or create puzzles himself for the opponents to solve. Creating puzzles seems unique enough to merit a fairly high rating. However, a sword hinders him a bit.

 

[Tepig2000]

Layton has a sword?

And since I'm here I wanna ask what the last day of this week will be.

 

[DaDavid]

Well the fact that he doesn't fight in his games would seem to suggest he would have to be unique to be in at all.

But, would he be interesting? Same as Bomberman, the praise seems too vague to warrant a high A. Honestly seems to me like he'd be a G&W and Villager in terms of "oh cool, he used that in his games" as opposed to characters like Link and Samus who feel more like "based on their games, that's how they'd fight."

I'll say B until when/if someone shows something that actually sounds unique.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Layton has a sword?

And since I'm here I wanna ask what the last day of this week will be.

Yup.
The last day will go to Slime.
I'll take suggestions on what you guys want for the next week.
I feel like doing a Zelda week because why not?
How about you guys?

 

[Tepig2000]

What about having Black Mage in the last day too?

I like the idea of a Zelda week. It could be like that:

1.Toon Zelda/Tetra
2.Toon Zelda & Tetra (both alone)
3.Ghirahim
4.Vaati
5.Tingle
6.Midna
7.Midna & Wolf Link team

 

[DaDavid]

Slime haha? Well okay...

And I wouldn't mind Zelda, but I don't know what series have already been done so I can't make suggestions. I guess I'll take a look.

 

[Smady]

Professor Layton: A

I agree that for Layton to be in at all, he needs to be very unique. He'd need to use his puzzle-solving or encyclopedic knowledge of puzzles to fight. That's a very abstract moveset and one that couldn't be seen on any other character. This may include disjointed hitboxes that represent famous riddles, creating pseudo constructions out of thin air that act as if they're attacks or some other way to make it work. It's inherently unique. Hard to see how Sakurai would do that, but this is the uniqueness tier list, not the difficulty tier list. Layton's use of swords now more than a few times naturally makes it into the set as his standards or aerials to help give some grounding to his zanier inputs, which isn't that great, but Layton is more of a fencer than Fire Emblem style sword fighter so there's room for a bit of a variation on that archetype too. You could bring Luke into the fold as a minion although I'd personally find that a little tasteless for Layton's personality.

A straightforward rating for an unorthodox character, although that only adds to Layton's charm.

On the discussion, a Zelda week is a great idea, but can we not have constant Toon Zelda/Tetra combos? Make every day a new character and reserve a day for all the combinations of those two as they are essentially the same character. That way we can get in as many originals as possible. I recommend:

1. Ghirahim
2. Classic Ganon
3. Vaati
4. Toon Zelda/Tetra
5. Midna/Wolf
6. Zant
7. Tingle

Don't mind the order, I put whatever came to mind first.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What about having Black Mage in the last day too?

I like the idea of a Zelda week. It could be like that:

1.Toon Zelda/Tetra
2.Toon Zelda & Tetra (both alone)
3.Ghirahim
4.Vaati
5.Tingle
6.Midna
7.Midna & Wolf Link team

You should put Impa somewhere and I will agree, and beast Ganon with the trident could be one of the days too.

 

[Smady]

Impa is worth a day? I thought she was mostly considered a good replacement Sheik. I looked at my list again but I'd honestly not put her over anyone there.

This series has too many good characters.

 

[Tepig2000]

You should put Impa somewhere and I will agree, and beast Ganon with the trident could be one of the days too.

I can't believe I forgot Impa and Ganon. I guess day 2 could be Impa and day 6 Ganon.

Impa is worth a day?

Yes she is.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I could add Zant into Midna's day if you want, then we have a good deal.
Impa is a popular candidate, I'm sure she's worth rating.

 

[DaDavid]

If we do Zelda, I say...

Beast Ganon
Impa
Tingle
Ghirahim
Vaati

aaaaaand, that's all I got right now. I'd prefer we don't discuss Toons just because they truthfully can do anything that the non-Toon versions don't already.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well we did rate Dixie before. I think we'll be fine even though she'll probably get a low grade.

 

[DaDavid]

Yeah I guess I'd just rather not spend the time. Maybe have a Toon Day to at least discuss a few different people. Toon Zelda, Tetra, Ghost Zelda, Toon Ganondorf, etc.

 

[Smady]

I could add Zant into Midna's day if you want, then we have a good deal.
Impa is a popular candidate, I'm sure she's worth rating.

That's not a bad idea.

From my point of view, the double characters (Mida, Tetra) need their own day just because of their potential combos.

Of the remaining, basically every character can have good arguments for why they're unique too.

So basically any double up is difficult. I suggest you may just want to put two lesser popular characters together even if there's no strong connection. The only good reason I can think of is Toon Zelda/Tetra and Impa because Toon Zelda is just going to be mostly a clone so that leaves some room for Impa, who is her protector. That's the best idea I can think of right now.

Not opposed to a Toon Day.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think we have a good deal:
1. Ghirahim
2. Classic Ganon and Toon Ganondorf
3. Vaati
4. Toon Zelda and Tetra
5. Midna/Wolf and Zant
6. Impa and Toon Sheik
7. Tingle
We don't really have to rate the character combos on multiple days because we are just rating the characters themselves. So there's no real reason to rate another combo.

Now we go back to Professor Layton please.

Professor Layton: A

I agree that for Layton to be in at all, he needs to be very unique. He'd need to use his puzzle-solving or encyclopedic knowledge of puzzles to fight. That's a very abstract moveset and one that couldn't be seen on any other character. This may include disjointed hitboxes that represent famous riddles, creating pseudo constructions out of thin air that act as if they're attacks or some other way to make it work. It's inherently unique. Hard to see how Sakurai would do that, but this is the uniqueness tier list, not the difficulty tier list. Layton's use of swords now more than a few times naturally makes it into the set as his standards or aerials to help give some grounding to his zanier inputs, which isn't that great, but Layton is more of a fencer than Fire Emblem style sword fighter so there's room for a bit of a variation on that archetype too. You could bring Luke into the fold as a minion although I'd personally find that a little tasteless for Layton's personality.

A straightforward rating for an unorthodox character, although that only adds to Layton's charm.

On the discussion, a Zelda week is a great idea, but can we not have constant Toon Zelda/Tetra combos? Make every day a new character and reserve a day for all the combinations of those two as they are essentially the same character. That way we can get in as many originals as possible. I recommend:

1. Ghirahim
2. Classic Ganon
3. Vaati
4. Toon Zelda/Tetra
5. Midna/Wolf
6. Zant
7. Tingle

Don't mind the order, I put whatever came to mind first.

I agree, it's pretty easy to imagine the fencing for normal moves, maybe they could have a unique property alongside, maybe it can cancel other melee attacks with ease and able to strike quickly once the opponent is left open.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well in regards to Layton, at first I would have put forth the moveset I had in the Professor Layton support thread, but after seeing how Sakurai handled Megaman and Villager and how he states in regards to how me made sure their moveset represented them as accurately as possible.

I would say that if he where to make Layton playable, he would make sure that his moveset is based on the heart of the series. Which is to say the puzzle's themselves. So I'd imagine that he would use a variety of attacks based on the puzzle's he and others could solve throughout the series.

I've been meaning to go through the puzzles in the series and see if I can give him a fully fledged puzzle based moveset but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I might eventually though once I have more time to go through them all.

That's my stance on it really. So I guess he'd be very unique if his moveset is based on the puzzles so I'll give him an A for that. If it's based on the stuff he did through the actual cutscenes then I suppose B.

 

[Smady]

I think we have a good deal:
1. Ghirahim
2. Classic Ganon and Toon Ganondorf
3. Vaati
4. Toon Zelda and Tetra
5. Midna/Wolf and Zant
6. Impa and Toon Sheik
7. Tingle
We don't really have to rate the character combos on multiple days because we are just rating the characters themselves. So there's no real reason to rate another combo.

Now we go back to Professor Layton please.


I agree, it's pretty easy to imagine the fencing for normal moves, maybe they could have a unique property alongside, maybe it can cancel other melee attacks with ease and able to strike quickly once the opponent is left open.

I especially like the idea of cancelling out attacks. It's a very Layton thing to do in a moveset, like he's out-thinking the opponent on another level.

There are similar things you could do as well to emphasize how Layton is beating the foe by seeing their weakness and "solving" it through shield breaks, pokes, gimps. The fencing style really works well into that too, as the whole sport is about finding an opening to attack.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think the main weakness to using the fencing normal attacks is that it has low power and the cost of using countering. But his gadgets (special moves) and the Smash attacks would probably help him earn a KO. He would probably be the worst in the air, but maybe he can still counter. I like the idea of the shield break, he should definitely be able to do that. Maybe he should be able switch to the other direction too so that he's basically a fencing shield.

I was thinking that a forward smash like the poke you mentioned could be a shield breaker.

 

[Smady]

It's very easy to imagine a set of standards using a fencing sword. The standard can simply be a combination of slashes, the down tilt can poke the foe low to try and catch their body while shielding, the forward tilt can be a generic swipe that can push the foe away or be a KO move. The up tilt can be either anti-air or juggler depending on what works best into the rest of the set. It's none too unique, but it works.

To be honest I don't know if also using them on smashes is a good idea, but I can imagine it for the sake of consistency. Layton generally used the swordsmanship as a defensive measure, using it to KO a foe seems almost out-of-character.

 

[OctiVick]

The professor would be pretty interesting if he had different puzzles and gadgets in his move-set, and his fencing skills could come in play too.

Not in the mood for a full analysis this time so I'll give him an A+

 

[BluePikmin11]

Down-Smash could be a quick spin kick sweep that could trip the opponent.
Up-Smash could be a very powerful thrust attack, but the sweet spot could be relatively small.
The dash could easily be the fastest priority attack.
Maybe he could have a relatively good throw game too.
I could see this being a very fun moveset.
I'm sort of leaning to S tier now, with his unique type of counter.

 

[andimidna]

With Twinrova's deconfirmation, Tiki blah blah blah

If you ever do a Zelda week, I recommend:
Day 1: Toon Zelda, Toon Zelda/ Tetra, Toon Zelda/ Toon Sheik, and Tetra (Toon Zelda combo day)
Day 2: Midna and Zant (Twilight Princess day)
Day 3: Tingle and Vaati (other Toons day)
Day 4: Impa and Ganon (recurring character day)
Day 5: Yuga, Hilda, and Ravio (ALBW day)
Day 6: Groose and Fi (Skyward Sword protagonist day)
Day 7: Ghirahim and Demise (Skyward Sword villain day)

I actually wrote up what I thought you should do for a Zelda week on page 24.
Your way is fine too.


Professor Layton... hmm... I can't imagine him fighting in Smash Bros at all, but if he was, I bet he'd be very unique.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Alrighty we have to get through the days with the final day of 3rd party character, then we can move on to Zelda week.

Today we are rating the common enemy in Dragon Quest that is Slime. Can he prove that he has the gear to be a very unique character?

And we are also rating Black Mage, the large-hatted elemental mage. Can his magic prove to be unique among the Smash cast.

Remember analyses are recommended.

Tagging @Cheezey Bites for Slime's day.

 

[Tepig2000]

Add Black Mage to this day too. Then I will be able to help.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Alrighty then.
As long as you make a good discussion, I'll let Black Mage slip into this day.

 

[OctiVick]

The mascot for the DQ series Slime!

He's my most wanted newcomer but I'll still try to keep personal bias out of this analysis.

Slime started off as generic enemy in the dragon quest games but rose into being the mascot of the series including being featured in spin-offs and having a few games of his own.

I guess the biggest thing you notice right form the start is his body type. He has his iconic and recognizable onion/droplet shape that is simple but can still be be differentiated from other round characters. He could possibly be the first character without any limbs (including arms and feet) whatsoever. Not only dose he have an original body type he also moves much differently unlike any charter we've seen stretching and oozing with every move he makes.

Most of his moves would involve tackling, spinning, and morphing his body to attack in way that we haven't seen. In DQ Monsters he has different kinds magic like fireballs (which explains itself), Radiant that can causes him to light up possibly stunning opponents, and Mega Magic that causes a burst of magic. In Rocket Slime he is given the ability elasto blast where he stretches himself out and fires himself like a rubber band, although moves that involve firing yourself has been done he dose it in such a fun and crazy way that it doesn't hurt him too much. Slime can also create stacks of items and different smiles that can throw for possible projectiles like in Rocket Slime and Mario Sports Mix.

He is part of the large slime family in the DQ series, there are so many different kinds of slime that are found across the entire DQ universe that could be incorporated in his move-set. Gem smiles, Jelly smiles, slime knights, and metal smiles just to name a few can be implemented for his move set. He can call other smiles and form into a massive King Slime that could crush opponents, or could possibly form into a puddle like a Liquid Slime and make areas slick, and even use jellyfish like tentacles to suck life from an opponent like a Heal Slime.

In games like rocket slime he can incorporate different items he has come across like Chests, Spooklear bombs, Oaken clubs, Fire water, Chimaera wings, Slime knights, Medicinal herbs, etc. into battle against enemies. While battling in tanks or ships he uses these items to take advantage over the enemy and could be used in similar way in smash. Slime can also pilot massive vehicles, the most noticeable is the Schleiman Tank a large slime shaped tank that appeared in Rocket Slime and DQ Joker, although the idea of having a tank like vehicle being used in battle has been done by 3 space animals already.

Final verdict:
Although some things about him aren't that new but the way he uses his abilities and arsenal is what them is what makes him unique. The fact that he is just a ball of goo already makes him fun and unique while providing plenty of possible move-set ideas just from that. The way he uses his existing abilities, his family abilities, and crazy arsenal there is so much that can be done that we haven't seen before.

At the end he is fun character with unorthodox way of battle but at the same time doesn't bring anything that is majorly new so my final grade for Slime is an
A