• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cheezey Bites

Slime Knight
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
1,649
Location
Astoltia
NNID
koske1
3DS FC
4356-0097-9129
Slime:

1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Many. Slime has two series to take inspiration from, the original Dragon Quest and Monsters games give him various magical abilities including breathing fire and ice, casting fire ball spells, lighting up caves and in the Monsters games access to the powerful Mega-Magic. He can also use weapons, or atleast equip them somehow... though admittedly in smash this very meta equipment may not be too usable in a moveset... He also gains the options to Call for Backup, loose his for and become a puddle (Babble Slime) as a duck, turn into a Metal Slime (via magic) and merge with other Slimes to create a slime stack or even massive king slime, all of which are far more iconic.
This gives him options as a weapon user (kinda), magic user, minion user and gives him the ability to change form.

His second major set of skills are more platformer centric, although the games where top down. Slime Mori Mori gives him the ability to pick items and enemies up and stack them on his head (much like in the affore mentioned Slime Stack, but with enemies), and the ability to move with them there. He also gains the Elesto-blast ability, which allows him to stretch out and rocket forwards (thus the Rocket Slime name in english translations). With a number of special items aswell, such as the often included Chimera's Wing, or the tank battles as further abilities he has a lot to call from here as well.

Moreover Slime is likely going to be a culmination of the two different series, and as such could combine any of these distinct options however Sakurai pleases... the number of different playstyles this could create is quite large.


2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Some moves are, some aren't.
Slime's body shape alone means a lot of his moves have to be unique, because he has no arms or legs to punch or kick with, or even hold the weapons he can apparently equip. His attacks would likely mostly consist of stretching his body into an attack, something which is kind of done with almost everyone thanks to comically sizes hands during punches, but I feel Slime's gelatinous form will make his stretching unique as he can form entirely different shapes, rather than simply emphasizing a feature.
His other major option is tackles, which aren't new in Smash with Wario's shoulder charge, or even Kirby's F-Smash kick being very similar to many of the tackles Slime could use, however Slime's bounciness would allow them different properties more akin to Squirtle's F-smash with him bouncing back after hitting... not entirely unique, but diverse from the majority of the Smash cast.
If he does use a weapon that too would have to be fairly unique given his lack of appendages, maybe using it from his mouth, or holding it inside him and jutting it out as an attack. Some of these moves would likely be somewhat mechanically similar to others (where hit boxes are concerned if the sword comes from the side of the character or inside them is irrelevant), but thematically entirely original.

His elesto-blast will also be unique, at least thematically, however it could be a mechanical clone of Fire Fox... however the bounciness could yet again give it very different properties so it has the potential to be unique, but isn't necessarily. Moreover it would be thematically and sensible for him to be able to fling himself all over the stage multiple times using his elasto-blast... though the same could be said for using the Screw Attack multiple times as Samus...
The grab game could too be unique-ish. Mega-Man and DK can both lift a characterr and move with them, but Slime has been shown to be able to jump and elesto-blast unimpeded by his captor, he also ha the unique ability to carry multiple enemies, though that would likely not get into smash for balance reasons. Playstyle wise this could cause similar strategies to DK and Kirby-cides, which would not be new however. Item holding and stack management could also add a loyer of complexity to the grab game mix.
Calling for back-up would be somewhat unique. While Waddle Dee toss, Luma Summon and Pikmin Pluck all call something to fight alongside the player they are different to the player, where-as call for back-up almost always calls more slimes (though heal-slimes (which would be unique as a healing move) and slime knights have also been known to answer the call) which would act more similarly to Slime, more akin to Popo and Nana but likely without controlling both characters. Moreover Slime would be able to call atleast 2 Slime to his beck and call as that's the canonical number in a Slime stack, making it different to the others.
Merging with his friends is something brand new, and potentially very exciting. By becoming a slime stack Slime would increases his weight (by theory double or triple, though as that would make him able to span lightest to heaviest character with room to spare I doubt it will be), reach and hit-box size... and probably slow him down for balance reasons. This transformation is unlike others, and the potential to throw Slimes off the stack for a projectile would give a risk reward element to his projectile game that is somewhat similar to Olimar thematically, but changes him in a very different (far more notable) way.
Turning to metal would also be unique as a move, but not as a concept thanks to the Metal Box item, so I'll null that out.
Even his run would be unique! Seriously, he hops to move quickly! No other smash character does that, and it would effectively increase his hit box as he bounces... His duck would likely also be unique becoming a puddle, both thematically and in terms of how it would diminish his hitbox size. He could reasonably crawl like that to avoid almost any attack, and potentially even cause tripping by slipping under someone feet, though that's a push. His down tilt as such would likely be a poison attack from the Babble slime, which not unique as an element, but is unique in mechanics... although Ivysaur should have a poison powder move which would do the same, and Wario Waft could be fitted with the same poisoning ability.

The other options are not unique, breathing fire or casting fireball etc... however these are actually the less iconic options, so I think in all he's very different abilities-wise to the others



3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
A slime? no.
A mook enemy as a playable character? nope.
A summoner character? yes, though I've explained how he's very different to the others... he'd be most like DeDeDe a the Slimes would act on their own and are mook enemies... but he'd still unique due to both mechanical and thematic (he's calling for help, not ordering/throwing an attack) differences.
A merging character? no, infact I'm not sure it's been done like this is any fighting game ever.
An aerial character rocketing across the stage? kinda, but it's more been multi-jumps than constantly rocketing backwards and forwards as slime would.


4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
His playstyle may be a little tedious if it ends up being too much focus on calling for backup and then rocketing away, but he certainly has enough options to be very fun to play, and an extremely dynamic battle with NPC Slimes being knocked around everywhere and even the PC slime rocketing across the sky. His wacky animations would also make him look really entertaining with him stretching out every which way.


5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
About as much as you can get! He's a blob of slime, nothing in smash comes close to that! He would be vaugely ball shaped like Kirby and Jiggles, and has similar big eyes and a smile but his lack of arms or legs makes him very different, his distinct head nipple, and his mouth shape all make him very different. His animations too would have to be completely different to anything in smash apart from maybe a sub-space enemy I've forgotten about...
He still however looks totally reasonable alongside Mario in Fortune street, so he's not too out there to fit in imho.



6. Does it fit the character well enough?
The most interesting a unique abilities do fit Slime's character, and are iconic abilities to him. The combination for rocketing and stacking with calling for back-up and merging is a good balance of both series and would be reasonable within bother universes. It also make him a fairly weak character individually who becomes powerful by attacking as a group, something thematically fitting for a mook enemy, but particularly slime. Blasting away all the back-up Slimes is also thematically apt give the amount of grinding that's needed in most DQ games, and fits both his series, and slime as he's often your first grinding enemy.




Verdict: S+

It would be difficult to create a move set for him that looks remotely like any other characters, heck it's hard to make moves for him that are like any other characters. His play style and abilities are all his own, and most of his abilities couldn't even be done by any other vaguely realistic newcomer. It would be possible to make a special moveset of cloned moves, but even then they'd make an entirely new play style... He completely defies convention, and brings some potentially very unique mechanics with him. He is in my opinion the most unique potential newcomer, though I admit to probably being slightly biased... I did try to be as neutral as possible, and explain why things would be unique though...
 
Last edited:

BluePikmin11

Akko is my dear daughter!
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
28,373
Location
https://twitter.com/BPikmin11
NNID
blue
I admit, I think the stretching ability could be tons of fun to use. I see this as the main hook for Slime. I like the puddle idea too. This some unique liquid properties I think could work as a character.
 

Tepig2000

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
2,356
Location
Why does it matter?
3DS FC
2938-8785-9936
Black Mage:

1. How many diverse options does this character have?

Black Mage is known for using black magic, in other words, magic that causes negative effects to the enemy, mostly damage, but it can also have other effects. He could use fire, ice and electricity. Of course these have been used in Smash already, but only Lucas uses all three, and Black Mage would use them differently. He could also use water, summon meteors, warp himself and his enemies, summon enemies and actual summons from the Final Fantasy series, turn enemies into frogs and pigs, turn himself into stone and more things I don't remember right now. And this is just what I know he does in Final Fantasy
2, I'm sure he has more abilities in other games.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?

Elemental attacks can be argued to not be diverse. However, all his other abilities are completely different from anyhing we have seen in Smash yet.

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?

Zelda already uses magic, but it is not elemental or summoning magic. She does not even use fire and teleportation (the only abilities she and Black Mage share) in the same way.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?

I think that he would be very fun, mainly because I like how he plays in SSF2, and if he played the same way in Smash 4 I would definitely main him. I dunno if others would like it, but I wuld.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?

He is a generic mage in mage clothing, and no character in Smash is like that.

6. Does it fit the character well enough?

Black Mage fits right in Smash, as can be seen in games like SSF2 (which is a Smash game) and in official games like Mario Sports Mix, where he fits right in with Mario and his friends.

Veridict: S, but maybe I'm being biased. Maybe. But just looking at question 1 is enough to know he has potential to be completely different from what we have seen so far.

Here is an example of how would he play if he was in SSB4:

 
Last edited:

Cheezey Bites

Slime Knight
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
1,649
Location
Astoltia
NNID
koske1
3DS FC
4356-0097-9129
He could use fire, ice and electricity. Of course these have been used in Smash already, but no character has used all three of these in the same moveset.
Not that I think this destracts from your point, but Lucas has access to all three... that said Black Mage would use them differently.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,307
Location
K Rool Avenue


Slime: B+

You know I was thinking before a lot of the characters here might just get so high because of bias, but I've figured out when looking at a character like Slime it's actually that the characters that tend to get in here are the unique ones. It doesn't seem like a stand out, but truthfully it is very, very unique when you consider what it can do.

It looks like... poop. No seriously, Blue Dragon - made by some of the creators of Dragon Quest - has an obvious reference to Slime in its most common enemy, the Poo Snake. So, what can poo do? Well there are many different kinds. Almighty King Slime, Steel Slime, down to the regular slime and they have combined attack patterns, magic or just good old bashing into the foe's skull. It's a surprisingly versatile little creature and as the obvious one Dragon Quest rep, it'd naturally be able to take a few things from the series wholesale for its own set. This would include the all of the classic chest finding, exploration based aspects that can be interpreted easily into attacks.

Of course the unique aspects only go so far. Slime would need to rely upon summons or whimsically pathetic magic, or combined attacks to make up for its lack of direct melee attacks. That's the one aspect I don't find especially unique - there are plenty of characters who equally lack the potential to outright punch, kick or grab. It would necessitate a unique workaround but unlike, say, Layton, I don't know if there is any truly satisfying result except head butts, rushes and generic body tackles. Of course, for Smash Bros that is still pretty original and his small size would also help make him get far away from bigger blobs.



Black Mage: A

A master of all kinds of magic, he can use every single kind and potentially the most powerful magic, unlike our pal Slime there who characteristically uses the weakest magic unless he combines into a powerful type of Slime. The very first Final Fantasy has Black Mage follow you from beginning to end if you pick the character and he can learn fire, ice, thunder magic, in later games black mages learn magic pertaining to time, gravity, water, earth and of course, they learn how to bring forth Doomsday. You can basically do any magic ever conceived using this character, and that is far more unique than just a magic user set like Zelda who is limited to the magic Link performs in-game.

The magic can be interpreted to do anything, but why I put Black Mage above Slime is just for the sake of his staff there. It's a unique weapon in Smash Bros and few others have it. It's not super rare, but it can be used to weakly prod, swab and thump the foe, making it a refreshingly useless weapon but one that'd easily be useful in aerials or standards to safely maneuver among foes, create openings, try and space them into your traps and other useful things without being an outright KO move. This would create a very fun and in-character dynamic where Black Mage relies on his magical attacks to KO the foe, while using melee simply to get out of the way or get the foe in range of your attacks.
 
Last edited:

Cheezey Bites

Slime Knight
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
1,649
Location
Astoltia
NNID
koske1
3DS FC
4356-0097-9129
Black Mage

1. How many diverse options does this character have?
A fair number, he has a lot of different spells that could be specials or even be normal attacks. He has a great number of elements up his hilariously droopy sleeves, but would likely stick primarily to Ice Fire and Lightning which aren't really new to smash... but he would use them in different ways. Then there's the status moves, Bio or Poison is the big one that's been with the black mage forever, but you could make use of Haste (although it's more associated with Time Mage now), and Teleport... stuff like that. For melee, well he has a knife, but smash is kid friendly, so no... as such he's stuck with a staff, which to be fair is new, but he's not exactly a melee fighter so the attacks are likely going to be a bit on the boring side from it.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Staves are new... although Palutena likely has one, it's still new!
As for elements, none of them are new exactly, but the animations allow for something special; set-distance hit boxes... something that I can't think of in smash. Say you use fire/fira/firaga (I'd assume some amount of charge difference here, so say they're smash attacks), well it would appear at a set distance in front of the attacker, get further away and it'll miss, but get closer and it'll also miss. Everything in smash (that comes to mind) is either melee, projectile or placed (like Din'a Fire), a set-AOE would be new, and his three elements would allow some interesting shapes and distances too. These hitboxes can be all sorts of different to the smash cast... and have new properties, but no new mechanics exactly...
Bio's hit-box would be an interesting question, but the poison status would be pretty new so that'd be cool. Sleep would be another good option, but Jiggles does have that under wraps, as well as Peach's FS, and Ivy and Snake both deserve it... Teleport would be obvious recovery, but that'd likely act much like Farore's wind, though I do like Smash Flash's move...
Again, poison and hit-boxes are what I see, but I remind you that they are very different!

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
An elemental magic user? no, but the MOTHER kids are pretty close... just psychic not magic.
He'd still be different, being a classical Mage, and mechanically his distanced AOEs would be something not done in smash... though you can argue Din's Fire does the concept, that's still done very differently.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
SSF2 is a terrible game in my opinion, but Black Mage shows promiss. With a better design team I think he could be really fun to play with his wonky hitboxes making everything a risk, and his lack of normal defensive options.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
Not as much as slime, but that's an unfair comparison... he's still top tier visual difference. The robes, the hat... it's not like anything else in smash yet.

6. Does it fit the character well enough?
A risky character with distanced hit-boxes and next to no immediate defenses using status moves and elemental magic? Yep, that sounds like a Black Mage to me! He should be really powerful but hard to play.


Verdict: S-
The hit-boxes will be radically different to anything else is smash, pretty much all of them, and a few of the statuses would be brand new. There's no denying he'd be extremely unique, it's almost a shame he's competing with Slime because both are unique and interesting characters.
 
Last edited:

Tepig2000

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
2,356
Location
Why does it matter?
3DS FC
2938-8785-9936
In SSF2, Black Mage's smash attacks change depending if they are charged or not. This could be another thing that makes him different from other characters.
 

Cheezey Bites

Slime Knight
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
1,649
Location
Astoltia
NNID
koske1
3DS FC
4356-0097-9129
I think I mentioned that too in there, though maybe I didn't put enough emphasis on it. But yes, I imagine using an uncharged smash would make Fire, a half-charged would be Fira and a full charged would be Firaga for instance, getting bigger and slightly different hitboxes... That was something I considered, and is indeed a unique feature, I probably should have made more note of it in the post...
 

Tepig2000

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
2,356
Location
Why does it matter?
3DS FC
2938-8785-9936
In SSF2, it is not just bigger hitboxes, but a different attack entirely. Here are his smash attacks, copy-pasted from the Mcleodgaming Wiki:

Forward Smash:
  • Uncharged: Uses Thundaga on enemies in front of him. Very powerful, though slow start up. 14%
  • Fully charged: Creates a pillar of thunder that advances across the entire stage. 20% per hit. Black Mage's most reliable KO move.
Up smash:
  • Uncharged: Uses Firaga as a fire uppercut aka Shoryuken, doing minimally 15% damage. 20% if second hit connects.
  • Fully charged: Two pillars of flame pop out of the ground on either side of Black Mage and converge on him. When they meet, an explosion occurs. Pillars deal 1% per hit, explosion deals 7%. Typically deals ~16% total.
Down smash:
  • Uncharged: Uses Blizzaga on the floor adjacent to him, freezing enemies on hit. 9%
  • Fully charged: The Blizzaga spell travels along the floor. 3% per hit. Both versions have high knockback scaling, but are unable to KO until the opponent is above 115% damage or higher.
 
Last edited:

Cheezey Bites

Slime Knight
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
1,649
Location
Astoltia
NNID
koske1
3DS FC
4356-0097-9129
I don't think a real Smash character would be that different, the game is meant to be easy to pick up hard to master, and that sort of thing is a bit counter intuitive... I guess you could implement it that way, but I'm still feeling a change to hit-boxes is about as far as would still be in the vein of Smash Bros.

You are free to disagree obviously, but as far as I'm concerned that isn't something that can fit into the context of Smash, and doesn't have a basis from their games to cause a change of opinion.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,307
Location
K Rool Avenue
I don't think a pillar effect is necessarily the best way to carry across the blizzard-blizzara-blizzaga and so on transitions on smash attacks. It'd make more sense simply to use the same spell but have it increase in size and potency, rather than change what it does entirely. Something like the first stage of blizzard/down smash being a simple blizzard-like cold wind toward the ground on both sides - sort of like a downwards version of Ice Climbers' down special - and then have it transition into freezing the ground entirely in icicles, lastly creating huge icy spikes out of the ground for huge damage/KO potential.

I'd make lightning a bit like Pikachu's thunderbolt, but make it an up smash. Maybe have it grow from one bolt to several, increase the hitbox when it hits Black Mage, and what have you. It's very easy to do and works in a Smash Bros context very well. Fire is pretty easy too, just make it to go from the average Mario-sized fireball to a hail of them. I actually really like the idea in that linked video of making it a meteor that raises and then catches fire, but that's a bit detached from the fire line of spells.

Anyhow, this discussion goes to show the great potential Black Mage has in just using magic. He could also use like ten other lines of spells at least, manipulating gravity, time and has some obvious final smash attack spells he could use. Obvious one is Ultima.
 

OctiVick

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Messages
393
It looks like... poop. No seriously, Blue Dragon - made by some of the creators of Dragon Quest - has an obvious reference to Slime in its most common enemy, the Poo Snake.
Just real quick, I think the poo snake is more of a reference to the poo creatures in Dr.Slump
Would make sense since Blue Dragon and Dr.Slump had Akira Toriyama as the main artist

 
Last edited:

BluePikmin11

Akko is my dear daughter!
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
28,373
Location
https://twitter.com/BPikmin11
NNID
blue
Alrighty then, Slime's day was pretty interesting with his stretching powers I did not really know of. Today were moving on from Third Party Week to explore the secrets and uniqueness of Zelda characters.
These characters range from Tingle to Impa to forms of Zelda and Ganondorf.

Today we are rating the long tongued tricky Ghirahim. Can he prove that his trick game of swords and knife projectiles show uniqueness at it's highest?

Remember analyses are recommended, but giving off a grade is just as fine. ;)

I always appreciate the responses.
 
Last edited:

Kenith

Overkill Sarcasm
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
24,014
Location
The Fabulous Friendly Super Sparkle Train
NNID
RipoffmanXKTG
3DS FC
4210-4224-9442
Alright, something I'm good at. Ghirahim propaganda!

My model of Ghirahim closely reflects his style in Skyward Sword.

He wields one sword in a fencing style, which contrasts all the other sword-users as they generally use some form of straight sword and slash a lot, whereas Ghirahim thrusts and swings with grandeur.

But the main thing that could make him stand out would utilize his knives in a fashion similar to Olimar's Pikmin.

With his standard special (chargable), with a snap he summons knives to surround him. When he has knives, his attack power and range is boosted and he takes less damage. When he uses another special move or a Smash attack, he sends the knives away as a projectile attack. He also loses them if the knives are directly attacked by other players.

Another ability he could have, is multiple teleportation abilities (like in Skyward Sword). His up special is a warp similar to Sheik's, but is a lot more versatile because it is faster.

His down special is a Counter. He raises his sword in front of him, and when he is attacked, he warps around the opponent and does a counter attack. What makes his unique from Marth/Lucario's counter is that he appears in the direction specified by the player. Hold up, he thrusts up from beneath the player. Hold down, he plummets from above with a downward strike.

His side special is simply an evil version of the Skyward Strike. I figured this is the best option for a side special, as he does use one, and it also represents a very important part of Skyward Sword's gameplay that isn't exclusive to him.

His Final Smash is probably the hardest to decide on. Most people propose that Ghirahim summons Demise, but I feel that would sort of take away from having Ghirahim in the first place. If Demise can just "appear", why doesn't he fight instead?
Perhaps the Imprisoned would be more optimal, having him stomp around the stage for a few seconds before being resealed or whatever.
I think the easiest and most logical option is an evil version of the Triforce Slash where Ghirahim traps the opponent against a bed of diamond magic. It only hits one, but it is almost a guaranteed kill.

So that's the moveset I think would be the most unique for him that isn't a stretch. I designed him to be very technical in that regard, so you really have to know what he can do before using him, perfectly reflecting his cunning.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,307
Location
K Rool Avenue


Ghirahim: A+

He's the archetypal magic swordsman, augmenting his style of swordplay by casting spells and conjuring up minions to buy time. His swordplay isn't all that good on its own, but the idiosyncratic way he uses it and the ease it would take to implement into Smash Bros is fantastic. Ghirahim has legitimate sword fights against Link in Skyward Sword where he utilizes every technique you can imagine for any type of generic slash or swipe with an unused type of thin, curved blade that doesn't have great range and makes up for that in the power it can afford. Not to mention if Sakurai wanted, he can have Ghirahim summon a wholly different, huge two-handed sword that has its own mechanics.

That is what his swordplay can do on its own, where Ghirahim gains most of his points is in his use of magic. In the middle of his boss fights, he can summon diamond-shaped knives that circle his body that he can fire at Link altogether, in a pattern or use as a defensive shield. He can freely teleport around the battlefield for an obvious recovery, shoot magical projectiles and has another, metallic form that is an obvious final smash but can be implemented in his moveset on a special. If you use his last fight as inspiration, there's a move he performs creating a static, electric current between his hands that could be really fun. Just as a magic swordsman, Ghirahim would be an easy, creative and fun set that stands out from the Fire Emblem lords as well as Zelda.

That's just using the potential from his boss fights, he can directly cast all kinds of spells and enchantments, such as summoning a tornado, dozens of gooks/Moblins and other enemies from Skyward Sword. The best one to use may in fact be his ability to conjure walls that separate him from his opponents, forcing them to fight through legions of minions as Ghirahim gathers back his strength. This would allow for a focus on Ghirahim building up his powerful magic in a projectile or perhaps charging a transformation. It would be a set focused around stage control and fighting the foe directly at the same time. The amount of ways all of his potential for moves can pan out makes him a very unique character.
 
Last edited:

ToothiestAura

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
2,077
3DS FC
4527-8092-0589
Ghirahim: A-
Ghirahim has some potential. He is a swordsman, but only uses his sword about half the time. So he gets some points there. Notable techniques of his involve teleportation, his floating red diamonds and reflexes/hard skin which allows him to catch swords. I have an idea for a counter type move of his called Sword Catch. The basic idea is that instead of automatically attacking, it would be an auto-grab counter. Also, if the opponent was attacking with an item (like the beam sword) Ghirahim would fling it out of his hands (like he can do with Link's sword). His red diamonds could be used in various ways: sent out in multiple directions, encircle opponents then hit, or as a shield/attack (sort of similar to Batman's bats in Injustice). His teleportation could be used as either an Up Special or Down Special. Basic attacks could involve his sword techniques and more basic moves like punches and kicks. Ghirahim has some basic moves, but he has a flair that will make them interesting. His personality combined with his elegant movement make him a fairly unique character overall. A taunt involving his tongue is a must.
 

Tepig2000

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
2,356
Location
Why does it matter?
3DS FC
2938-8785-9936
Ghirahim: A-
Ghirahim has some potential. He is a swordsman, but only uses his sword about half the time. So he gets some points there. Notable techniques of his involve teleportation, his floating red diamonds and reflexes/hard skin which allows him to catch swords. I have an idea for a counter type move of his called Sword Catch. The basic idea is that instead of automatically attacking, it would be an auto-grab counter. Also, if the opponent was attacking with an item (like the beam sword) Ghirahim would fling it out of his hands (like he can do with Link's sword). His red diamonds could be used in various ways: sent out in multiple directions, encircle opponents then hit, or as a shield/attack (sort of similar to Batman's bats in Injustice). His teleportation could be used as either an Up Special or Down Special. Basic attacks could involve his sword techniques and more basic moves like punches and kicks. Ghirahim has some basic moves, but he has a flair that will make them interesting. His personality combined with his elegant movement make him a fairly unique character overall. A taunt involving his tongue is a must.
You mean like Megaman's Leaf Shield? That's not unique. :p
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,307
Location
K Rool Avenue
You mean like Megaman's Leaf Shield? That's not unique. :p
Although it looks the same, Ghirahim's would be a bunch of tiny, 1HP knives versus bigger leaf projectiles.

It's not that unique in concept but the implementation can be completely new.
 
Last edited:

Tepig2000

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
2,356
Location
Why does it matter?
3DS FC
2938-8785-9936
Although it looks the same, Ghirahim's would be a bunch of tiny, 1HP knives versus bigger leaf projectiles.

It's not that unique in concept but the implementation can be completely new.
Oh, I got it. The difference is that Ghirahim's diamonds can be destroyed, but he has more. And I guess they would do different damage and knockback, too. They would also circle him in a different way.
 

BluePikmin11

Akko is my dear daughter!
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
28,373
Location
https://twitter.com/BPikmin11
NNID
blue
Looks like the thread has gone dead, I guess no one was really into discussing him. :p

Today were rating the toon version of a princess and a pirate, Toon Zelda and Tetra.

Can Toon Zelda prove she has enough differences to Zelda? And can Tetra show that she can differentiate from Sheik.

Remember analyses are recommended, but giving off a grade is just as fine. ;)

I always appreciate the responses.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,307
Location
K Rool Avenue


Toon Zelda: F

This is not only a clone but as directly similar to Zelda as humanly possible, without being the same person. This is not helped by the fact that Toon Link and Young Link before that, set a precedent for the Zelda clones to be a near perfect copy of the original character, harbouring only small differences in animation and effects. Where the problems lie there is that while Toon Link is the main protagonist of his games, Toon Zelda never takes a big enough role to greater divide herself from the original Zelda in any meaningful way. This means that anything she can do is highly limited. Unlike, for example, Falco, Toon Zelda is not a big fighter and has not only no potential for her own moves, but no reason for it if Toon Link is anything to go by.

The first Zelda already takes magic from Link, the best I can see for Toon Zelda is that she uses new magic from Wind Waker or summons a Phantom. Even with that in mind, the rest of the set would have to mimic Zelda's and there is no reason for the disjointed hitbox moves to change on a smaller model; they can work on any character, in fact a smaller character may benefit from their relatively decreased size as it would naturally defend more of their body, albeit at the cost of some range. Take the Phantom summon and magic into account, it's still nothing particularly new for Smash Bros: Rosalina already has the detachable Luma and there's nothing about the way Toon Zelda uses her magic that is worth separating from other magic users like Ness/Lucas.



Tetra: C

A big improvement from her transformation, Toon Zelda, Tetra is one of those characters who you can concede can have a decent set, but not one that is hugely interesting (or unique). It can comprise of general pirate archetype things, using a dagger, summoning her friends if you really want to push it. She can use rupee-based moves in esoteric fashion or summon treasure chests, but most fitting for the character, she's simple, fast and melee-based, having shades of a bandit. She can transform into Toon Zelda, however she is then incredibly similar to Zelda. Many of the things she may have been able to pioneer from Wind Waker are already taken by Toon Link, leaving her the leftovers. There are some things for her to take from there, but overall it's difficult to see that her set would be more than mostly a brawler or sword fighter (who rarely fights in-game) and maybe a couple of creative specials using props. She's not a wacky character you can see utilizing all kinds of hammerspace items (i.e. Villager) to make work, unfortunately, which tremendously hurts the potential for her set.
 
Last edited:

Jason the Yoshi

Watching Me, Wanting Me
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
18,791
Location
Waiting for Jesus
Toon Zelda and Tetra? Jesus Grandma, YES PLEASE!!!

If I not mistaken, Toon Zelda was planned for Brawl. Toon Zelda could have the following moveset

B- Nayru's Love
This one works the same as Zelda's, but make sure it works like Falco's reflector

Side B- Din's Fire
Make it weaker, but pass through enemies and score multiple hits and not just a blast

Up and B- Farore's Wind
Go a little bit faster or slower than Zelda's.

Down and B- Transform
Transforms into Tetra

Final Smash: Toon Light Arrow

I might edit in Tetra's moveset later
 

BluePikmin11

Akko is my dear daughter!
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
28,373
Location
https://twitter.com/BPikmin11
NNID
blue
Also going to tag @pizzadudemanguy for Tetra to see if he has any good input on her.

I'm going to give off my grades for these two.
Since Toon Zelda doesn't really provide anything new, I'm going to give her an F too.
Tetra I could see be unique, but it would visual only be pirate themed Sheik, a C maybe?
 
Last edited:

Rockaphin

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
2,490
Location
Rogueport
NNID
Rockaphin
3DS FC
2595-0113-8473


Toon Zelda: F

This is not only a clone but as directly similar to Zelda as humanly possible, without being the same person. This is not helped by the fact that Toon Link and Young Link before that, set a precedent for the Zelda clones to be a near perfect copy of the original character, harbouring only small differences in animation and effects. Where the problems lie there is that while Toon Link is the main protagonist of his games, Toon Zelda never takes a big enough role to greater divide herself from the original Zelda in any meaningful way. This means that anything she can do is highly limited. Unlike, for example, Falco, Toon Zelda is not a big fighter and has not only no potential for her own moves, but no reason for it if Toon Link is anything to go by.

The first Zelda already takes magic from Link, the best I can see for Toon Zelda is that she uses new magic from Wind Waker or summons a Phantom. Even with that in mind, the rest of the set would have to mimic Zelda's and there is no reason for the disjointed hitbox moves to change on a smaller model; they can work on any character, in fact a smaller character may benefit from their relatively decreased size as it would naturally defend more of their body, albeit at the cost of some range. Take the Phantom summon and magic into account, it's still nothing particularly new for Smash Bros: Rosalina already has the detachable Luma and there's nothing about the way Toon Zelda uses her magic that is worth separating from other magic users like Ness/Lucas.



Tetra: C

A big improvement from her transformation, Toon Zelda, Tetra is one of those characters who you can concede can have a decent set, but not one that is hugely interesting (or unique). It can comprise of general pirate archetype things, using a dagger, summoning her friends if you really want to push it. She can use rupee-based moves in esoteric fashion or summon treasure chests, but most fitting for the character, she's simple, fast and melee-based, having shades of a bandit. She can transform into Toon Zelda, however she is then incredibly similar to Zelda. Many of the things she may have been able to pioneer from Wind Waker are already taken by Toon Link, leaving her the leftovers. There are some things for her to take from there, but overall it's difficult to see that her set would be more than mostly a brawler or sword fighter (who rarely fights in-game) and maybe a couple of creative specials using props. She's not a wacky character you can see utilizing all kinds of hammerspace items (i.e. Villager) to make work, unfortunately, which tremendously hurts the potential for her set.
This sums it up pretty well in my opinion. However, I'll give Toon Zelda a D-
 

Tepig2000

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
2,356
Location
Why does it matter?
3DS FC
2938-8785-9936
Toon Zelda is whatever Toon Link is in uniqueness. I'm gonna give Tetra a solid B. While she does not have an unique gimmick, her pirate-themed moveset sets her apart from others, and she wouldn't fight like Sheik like others suggest.

 

Jason the Yoshi

Watching Me, Wanting Me
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
18,791
Location
Waiting for Jesus
I'm sure PizzaDudeManGuy would have a better Tetra moveset than I do when he gets here, but here goes nothing!
Tetra could be some mix between Athletic and Fire Emblem

B- Treasure Throw
Tetra chucks a gold nugget at the opponent

Side B- Barrel Roll
Gets inside a barrel and rolls around kinda like Sonic's Spin Dash, but can be ejected from the Barrel at any time, and the barrel still roll

Up and B- Grappling Hook
Simple tether recovery attack

Down and B- Transform
Change back into Toon Zelda
 

Tepig2000

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
2,356
Location
Why does it matter?
3DS FC
2938-8785-9936
I'm sure PizzaDudeManGuy would have a better Tetra moveset than I do when he gets here, but here goes nothing!
Tetra could be some mix between Athletic and Fire Emblem

B- Treasure Throw
Tetra chucks a gold nugget at the opponent

Side B- Barrel Roll
Gets inside a barrel and rolls around kinda like Sonic's Spin Dash, but can be ejected from the Barrel at any time, and the barrel still roll

Up and B- Grappling Hook
Simple tether recovery attack

Down and B- Transform
Change back into Toon Zelda
I love the Star Fox reference.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom