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The Official Chaingrabbing Thread.
- Thread starter Hylian
- Start date
Then i simply wont deny. Feel bad uh? XD
Is it weird that it tickles me so to get namedropped for that so often?There is no truth, only a perspective. We must transcend the illusion, breaking the barricade of infinite cognizance says:
its inescapable :-O, therefore its banned
Swordgard von karma/ Back to canada! says:
yes, but its slow enough to be grab broken, reflex got out of a grab at 56% insta grab break vs ally if you cant do it, its just another set of skills
I was trying to convince him that you could get out of grabs, and your the only person i know who can do it that fast XD
Theres only one problem with your argument. You think that i have some sort of knowledge/credibility in the matter.
I have literally no good rankings either online or offline, and i lack any type of skills at the game . Anyone in canada whos played me recently can confirm this. So does anyone who knows me on AIB (go and check my ranking, i barely got over a few thousands points. )
lain
Smash Master
fyi my ic's break this game.
;D
;D
Niko_K
Smash Master
Swordgard you suck at covering up. You just wrote the most detailed DI guide that SWF has seen and you're trying to say you don't know anything and you suck. What a troll!
Nice try lain
Nice try lain
IC's... Meh. In theory, they look a little broken, but the funny thing is that other characters are broken past that level, in theory. In practice, the translation from theory to game time usually ends in the same result, with IC's losing to other characters better than them (or sometimes even worse than them overall).
With as powerful as infinite grabs are, some characters have a more powerful tool of just being able to play keep away. You would probably have to ban the IC counter strategies or make them near unstoppable before you would ban their infinites.
With as powerful as infinite grabs are, some characters have a more powerful tool of just being able to play keep away. You would probably have to ban the IC counter strategies or make them near unstoppable before you would ban their infinites.
Niko_K
Smash Master
An IC main who is aware of their opponents evasive strategies is simply going to predict and land a grab. It's not like as soon as a character starts playing evade, IC instantly can't get grabs...
Also, since the match starts the IC's already have all the pre reqs they need to start infinites anyways. They can just sit there and spammed PROPERLY spaced DS Blizzards.
It's also about the risk reward, which is like, 1-99. You miss a grab, you'll take maybe 10%. Where as you get the grab, you take their stock.
Also, since the match starts the IC's already have all the pre reqs they need to start infinites anyways. They can just sit there and spammed PROPERLY spaced DS Blizzards.
It's also about the risk reward, which is like, 1-99. You miss a grab, you'll take maybe 10%. Where as you get the grab, you take their stock.
That wont happen, ics are obviously low tier man.Swordgard you suck at covering up. You just wrote the most detailed DI guide that SWF has seen and you're trying to say you don't know anything and you suck. What a troll!
Nice try lain
Chaingrabs are too hard to do anyways to be viable in tourney, its a known fact.
Nobody can even 0 to death once without missing.
The only video we have of people infiniting are vs computers! And everyone know those cant DI for crap.
Hive
Smash Lord
low tier lol? i see ics place top ten all the time in major and minor tourneys... no low tiers can do that ^^\
overrated maybe.. but i still think they are in the upper half of the cast at least...
overrated maybe.. but i still think they are in the upper half of the cast at least...
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
Super_Sonic8677
Smash Lord
LOLSonic sez hai
sonic is definitly NOT in the upper level of the cast and he does not place well in major tourneys.
Anyways, i am not joking, ice climbers are OBVIOUSLY low tier. They can be so easily countered by anyone above falco(n)
Denzi
Smash Master
Ganondorf is above Falcon...
Then he therefore counters ics.
Random warlock punches simply cannot be powershielded easily could kill both ice climbers very easily due to nanas stupidity
IrArby
Smash Ace
Tounament results are not purely indicative of tier placement. This goes back to a long discussion we had in the D3 Chaingrab thread. To paraphrase M2K, tournaments are way too much about who is good, who is still playing, and who isn't.
If good players in small-medium sized tournaments want to be IC fanboys and play them, they'll be able to beat a few lesser players with better characters. Still, they're just placing meaning players who are comparitively just as good or better beat them with better characters. "Placing" doesn't prove anything.
I haven't looked at Major tournament results lately with the best pros playing, but I'm willing to bet MKs, Snakes, Diddys, and Falcos are still winning. Or at least ICs aren't.
If good players in small-medium sized tournaments want to be IC fanboys and play them, they'll be able to beat a few lesser players with better characters. Still, they're just placing meaning players who are comparitively just as good or better beat them with better characters. "Placing" doesn't prove anything.
I haven't looked at Major tournament results lately with the best pros playing, but I'm willing to bet MKs, Snakes, Diddys, and Falcos are still winning. Or at least ICs aren't.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Not even in theory.
Their lack of set-ups, and their very limited grab range make actually getting a grab in against anyone but certain characters require a massive mistake, this limits them both in theory and practice.
This is one of those "get better paper" things, and current match-ups almost universally acknowledge that ICs lack the grab range to truly be a threat in most match-ups, infinite or no.
*Bolding added
While I haven't analyzed the match-up so I cannot be sure about who has the advantage, you're wrong. Random warlock punches are just an invitation for ICs to grab you, which means you're getting infinited.
Don't warlock punch in this match-up... period.
Also, ICs win in other match-ups, against much higher tired characters, for example DDD.
Hive
Smash Lord
@Iarby- I disagree, I think placings in major tourneys (and even mid level tourneys) in diverse and competitive areas are VERY indicative of tier listings, especially now that the metagames are starting to even out. I would even hazard that these tourney placings are the main logic behind the tier lists as they are today.
And yes, the ICs have been able to place in top ten in major tourneys relatively well. example michael hey at wcsl (7th). That's not to say that ICs are the best characters out there or ahead of some of the biggest characters, but if you look at an average of how well ics do in major tourneys compared to other characters you will see that they are above at least 1/2the rest of the cast.
Small tourneys and midlevel tourneys actually make ics potential look less rather than more in say ankoko's tourney
results, bc of the relative lack of good ics players around.
ICs are not low tier :/ seriously, the bad advantages ic face are nowhere as bad or as widespread as many of the low tiers have to face. why? bc their grabs are almost riskless. it may be hard for ics to land a single grab, but if ics can grab 1-2 for every 120% damage-ish the opponent hits them for they have an advantage. That's not to say ics don't have bad matchups. What i'm saying is that overall they aren't as bad as much of the cast. And I think that is what shows in tourney placings here on the west coast.
actual low tier characters like Samus or Ganondorf will never be able to replicate the successes that the ics have accomplished. when me and xyro got 33 in wcsl for example that was very impressive for a samus main to pull off. Getting 7th would have been godlike.
And yes, the ICs have been able to place in top ten in major tourneys relatively well. example michael hey at wcsl (7th). That's not to say that ICs are the best characters out there or ahead of some of the biggest characters, but if you look at an average of how well ics do in major tourneys compared to other characters you will see that they are above at least 1/2the rest of the cast.
Small tourneys and midlevel tourneys actually make ics potential look less rather than more in say ankoko's tourney
results, bc of the relative lack of good ics players around.
ICs are not low tier :/ seriously, the bad advantages ic face are nowhere as bad or as widespread as many of the low tiers have to face. why? bc their grabs are almost riskless. it may be hard for ics to land a single grab, but if ics can grab 1-2 for every 120% damage-ish the opponent hits them for they have an advantage. That's not to say ics don't have bad matchups. What i'm saying is that overall they aren't as bad as much of the cast. And I think that is what shows in tourney placings here on the west coast.
actual low tier characters like Samus or Ganondorf will never be able to replicate the successes that the ics have accomplished. when me and xyro got 33 in wcsl for example that was very impressive for a samus main to pull off. Getting 7th would have been godlike.
Hive
Smash Lord
lol my bad, I thought so ^^
you seemed so insistent though
you seemed so insistent though
cutter
Smash Champion
The IC infinites obviously should not be banned or even limited. They have proven not to break the game and ICs don't even come close to dominating tournaments.
MetaKnight's move is as you said it, a glitch. Chaingrabbing is a legitimate move and technique that many people use accordingly to help strengthen their gameplay.Going by your logic, D3's infinites shouldn't be banned because "it's part of the metagame" (there are better legit reasons then that >_>) and MK's cape glitch shouldn't either because "it's part of the metagame".
Just wondering, when you say chaingrabs, do you mean infinites (I mean d3's not Ic's) as well?
-Bowser King
Also, I'm starting to main/secondary Ice Climbers now, they have amazing grabs, and their overall gameplay just completely suits me. =D
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
Just pray that Nana treats you better than she treated me
Just pray that Nana treats you better than she treated me
Lol, I play as Nana. I use Black & White Ice Climbers.
I need a few more weeks to really get used to them, figure out their gameplay and moveset, learn AT's and strategies, and I'll be fine.
I'm never dropping Yoshi though.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
I used black and white as well.Lol, I play as Nana. I use Black & White Ice Climbers.
I need a few more weeks to really get used to them, figure out their gameplay and moveset, learn AT's and strategies, and I'll be fine.
I'm never dropping Yoshi though.
Whatever, you know what I mean. The slave climber does ******** things a lot. A whole lot.
Firestormzero0
Smash Ace
Chain grabbing is just part of brawl. It should not be banned. IC can 0-death u in a CG yes, but it takes forever to learn and nobody i know so far can do it perfectly everytime. Especially when there are people who gets out of grabs really fast. And with IC short grab range, its really ez to space ur attacks and avoid getting grabbed. If your going against somebody that can CG u. Just watch out for it and dont fall for any mind games and you will be ok.
Ussi
Smash Legend
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225783
Apparently Pikachus have been CGing wrong until now lol.
the important CGs that have been confirmed true: MK 10-60%, Falco 20-100%
Weird ones: Snake 50-90% needs 7 times decayed dthrow, 30-90% on the ledge.
Important CGs that are being tested(And most likely true): Wolf 20-110%, Fox 0-99%, Ganondorf 0-90%, Falcon 0-110%, Charizard 0-80%, Shiek 0-99%
Apparently Pikachus have been CGing wrong until now lol.
the important CGs that have been confirmed true: MK 10-60%, Falco 20-100%
Weird ones: Snake 50-90% needs 7 times decayed dthrow, 30-90% on the ledge.
Important CGs that are being tested(And most likely true): Wolf 20-110%, Fox 0-99%, Ganondorf 0-90%, Falcon 0-110%, Charizard 0-80%, Shiek 0-99%
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
0-60 on MK?!
Whaaaat.
Thats awesome.
Whaaaat.
Thats awesome.
hichez50
Smash Lord
Why would u want rto ban shield grabs anyway? I dont think they are cheap. You just have to be more careful
Ussi
Smash Legend
he said chain grabs NOT shield grabs.
Also, apparently Pikachu CGs DDD to 90% ;o
And its absolutely official that Pikachu CGs MK to 60% :D
Also, apparently Pikachu CGs DDD to 90% ;o
And its absolutely official that Pikachu CGs MK to 60% :D
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
Wait... is that just with down throw? Why hasn't this been discovered, like... months and months ago? What am I missing here?
Ussi
Smash Legend
this is just PLAIN dthrow being BUFFERED (Pikachus have never been buffering throws) to another dthrow.... seriously how everyone missed this for an ENTIRE YEAR is beyond me.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Actually i think it works from 0% now o_o 0-56% > usmash/tilt
PolMex23
Smash Champion
So, ill have a video of me going against a D3 player in crews(DewDaDash) and after getting in a doing a lil fancy combo, i make a mistake an get the D3 grab infinite on Luigi to 220+ then f throw to death...total of all my 3 stock.
Hmmm, I still dont understand why would you allow a character to have what? Five 100-0 match ups?
? Please, give me your best response, please do. Agree or disagree explain why is this still allowed.
Most tourneys in FL now ban this. But some don't.
Please don't say "Don't get grabbed"....Might as well forget DDD's grab game...
Hmmm, I still dont understand why would you allow a character to have what? Five 100-0 match ups?
? Please, give me your best response, please do. Agree or disagree explain why is this still allowed.
Most tourneys in FL now ban this. But some don't.
Please don't say "Don't get grabbed"....Might as well forget DDD's grab game...
Ussi
Smash Legend
This very long and heated and repeating debate is your answer
PolMex23
Smash Champion
My reason is when the characters only advantage is a longer more efficient ranged attack, better grab range and ability to shield grab almost every physical move in the game against any character due to his weight directly leads to the ability to easily get your opponent into the only thing that makes the match up 100-0 really makes it a anomaly to me that is hasn't been banned yet.
The worst is Luigi is the only one on the list that doesn't get CG, only infinite.
The worst is Luigi is the only one on the list that doesn't get CG, only infinite.
Ussi
Smash Legend
the problem is showing favoritism. This isn't universal. Sucks to main your character in the end :\
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
This basically. It's not like you can't CP a different character. Pick the ICs and CG D3 in revenge or Pikachu and do the samething.
It doesn't break the game, it heavily alters 5 out of who knows how many match-ups in this game. Too small to be banned, and it still is avoidable. Extremely hard to do so, but is still do able. Want to be gay about it? Pick Norfair, hit him with one fireball, then plank the rest of the match.