The Lycia Alliance: Roy Legacy Support Thread

[Graizen]

Question : If Ryu is in Smash 4 it will be the second representative from Capcom in the game. Do you think it can confirm more representatives from SEGA and Namco Bandai also?

 

[ZephyrZ]

Question : If Ryu is in Smash 4 it will be the second representative from Capcom in the game. Do you think it can confirm more representatives from SEGA and Namco Bandai also?

It wouldn't confirm anything, but it'd make it more likely.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Shokio provides a strong counter-argument against Roy haters:

I'm a Roy supporter and these are terrible arguments....

Plus him calling people ******** isn't exactly something we should herald.

 

[Lautsuu~]

Eventually, yes. And there will only be one Marth in the whole museum, basking in all the Roys. Just one.
One Marth to rule them all, one Marth to find them, one Marth to bring them all, and in the Smash Bros, fight them.

*gigglesnort*

I have a spare Marth amiibo I am more than willing to donate to this cause.
I'm much more of an Ike/Marth and Pit/Roy fan, but brotp Marth/Roy is just adorable.

 

[FalKoopa]

Question : If Ryu is in Smash 4 it will be the second representative from Capcom in the game. Do you think it can confirm more representatives from SEGA and Namco Bandai also?

It would open up the gates, sure, but not confirm them.

 

[J04KlM]

I'm a Roy supporter and these are terrible arguments....

Plus him calling people ******** isn't exactly something we should herald.

It's Shokio's vocabulary that might be the problem, but outside of that, He's one of the most sane people who is vocal in the Nintendo community. If you watch his other videos he makes very valid points on how our community is broken, and you could say Roy haters are a contributor to that damage.

Shokio has my full respect, we need more open minded people like him who is vocal. Despite his vocabulary.

 

[marco-polo]

I think Roy is confirm for smash if this is true
http://mynintendonews.com/2015/04/1...5th-anniversary-fire-emblem-concert-in-japan/
Masahiro Sakura would be there, so he will say Roy is DLC or announce Fire emblem x Kid Icarus

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Shokio provides a strong counter-argument against Roy haters:

Shokio, you never change the slightest. I like this guy due to how reasonable he can be at times wth his debates (Ridley controversies aside) and he's Will Smith's incarnation.

 

[Rabbattack]

Here is something I thought of for the Roy haters.

If he was going to be a clone like he was in Melee, then he would have been put in at the games release like Dr. Mario, Lucina, anf Dark Pit considering it would have taken little time and effort to make another clone. I don't think Sakurai is cheap enough to make us pay for another clone. Believe in the man.

I also think that this further supports the fact that this is the last Smash Bros he is working on. He is giving us the lost veterans before he moves onto other projects.

I think other people may have thought of this already, but Roy's neutral special should be the one he had from Melee, except that when you charge it, it shoots out fire projectiles or waves from the ground like Kirby's cutter without the jumping.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think Sakurai is definitely going to be change Roy to a certain extent. I think he will most likely resemble Project M's Roy in terms of differences. He is going to have a few different-A moves and his specials will operate even more differently than they did in Melee. Pretty much he is going to undergo the same thing Falco and Ganondorf did in Brawl.

However, another idea would be for him to be a combination of Marth and Ike and take moves from both their movesets.

Either way, I think people need to have more faith in Sakurai. This is the same guy that went with Robin when most people were asking for Chrom as their Awakening rep and were perfectly fine with him either replacing Ike or simply being a combination of Marth and Ike.

 

[Boo Jr.]

Here is something I thought of for the Roy haters.

If he was going to be a clone like he was in Melee, then he would have been put in at the games release like Dr. Mario, Lucina, anf Dark Pit considering it would have taken little time and effort to make another clone. I don't think Sakurai is cheap enough to make us pay for another clone. Believe in the man.

I also think that this further supports the fact that this is the last Smash Bros he is working on. He is giving us the lost veterans before he moves onto other projects.

I think other people may have thought of this already, but Roy's neutral special should be the one he had from Melee, except that when you charge it, it shoots out fire projectiles or waves from the ground like Kirby's cutter without the jumping.

While I would really like having a ranged attack, I think Roy will be something in beetwen Ike and Marth in terms of both playstyle and statistics, like he was probably supposed to be in Brawl. A swordfighter with a ranged attack would be too powerful, you have no idea how many times playing with Marth I could have gimped an enemy even with a generic ranged attack.
It will be cool, yes, but his Flare Blade from Melee was maybe his most iconic ability.

By the way I'm with you about faith in Sakurai, he is literally giving us everything we wanted, and a tons of extra too. I really think Roy will end being his Melee incarnation, but with something that will make him very different from Marth...otherwise Sakurai would just add another character, right?

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Here is something I thought of for the Roy haters.

If he was going to be a clone like he was in Melee, then he would have been put in at the games release like Dr. Mario, Lucina, anf Dark Pit considering it would have taken little time and effort to make another clone. I don't think Sakurai is cheap enough to make us pay for another clone. Believe in the man.

I also think that this further supports the fact that this is the last Smash Bros he is working on. He is giving us the lost veterans before he moves onto other projects.

I think other people may have thought of this already, but Roy's neutral special should be the one he had from Melee, except that when you charge it, it shoots out fire projectiles or waves from the ground like Kirby's cutter without the jumping.

Well, that argument kind of falls flat since Dr. Mario wouldn't need much effort to recreate. There's already Mario in the game. Whereas Roy isn't as reliant on his base character of Roy, and actually has some effects and properties that are more different from Marth than Dr. Mario from Mario. And replicating this things, which were from Melee, into Smash 4 isn't an easy task.

Anyways, it seems I'm the only one supporter here that believes Roy would still be a clone, so I know I may not convince everybody. But let's say hypothetically he does turn out that way, what is the defense that would be given for Roy then?(This isn't targeted at you specifically, just those that defend Roy).

 

[Boo Jr.]

Well, that argument kind of falls flat since Dr. Mario wouldn't need much effort to recreate.

Yes, but Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit were supposed to be alternate costumes, they gained their own slot because was really easy to make them an tweak their proprieties a bit.
Roy was never meant to be a costume, and since he was supposed to be in Brawl too there's a good chance that he will be luigified.

 

[Rabbattack]

One more thing... PLEASE USE THE AWAKENING REDESIGN!

 

[Wintropy]

Devil's advocate:

The only concern I have with Roy's return is that it will marginalise Lucina even more. She already gets flak for being a poorer version of Marth, having a Marth clone that has fire and a different neutral-b would make Lucina all but redundant; except for the diehard Lucina fans, who'll still play her because they like the character, there'd be no abject purpose to her existence.

Is that a reason to deny Roy? Absolutely not.

But it does bring up an interesting notion. To wit: what could Lucina potentially do that Marth and Roy can't? I'd be happy if they just tweaked her stats to make her a faster, yet more fragile, combatant: she could be the rushdown combo fighter to round out the FE cast. As it stands, one of the most common criticisms of Roy is that "there's already a Marth clone in the game". Chances are that, even as a direct port of his Melee self, Roy would still be the more dynamic clone, and yet I can't help but feel that Lucina's getting left out in the cold yet again.

At the same time, I fear that decloning Roy will risk drawing comparisons to Ike. Having a heavier, slower Lord with fire effects will invariably yield criticism along the lines of "he's just a weird mishmash of Marth and Ike" - a bit like what people suggested Chrom would be, back when Chrom seemed like a viable candidate.

There's also the inevitable notion that he'll take up too much dev time if he's a totally new character, and recreating him as a clone would save on that side of things immensely. We do have to take other characters into account as well.

Just some food for thought. It's a tricky balance, but I have faith that Sakurai will surprise us.

NOTE: These are not necessarily my actual opinions. I'm just thinking aloud here to offer counterarguments and questions to consider.

 

[MoveMan1]

One more thing... PLEASE USE THE AWAKENING REDESIGN!

Plz no

 

[ChronoBound]

Anyways, it seems I'm the only one supporter here that believes Roy would still be a clone, so I know I may not convince everybody. But let's say hypothetically he does turn out that way, what is the defense that would be given for Roy then?(This isn't targeted at you specifically, just those that defend Roy).

I do think most Roy fans see Roy as still being based off of Marth. Its just that we see him as ending up being Luigi-fied, whereas the detractors think he will be a straight port of his Melee self.

Basically, look at Falco/Ganondorf in Smash 4 and Brawl, or better yet, Roy in Project M. That is most likely what will happen with Roy.

However, who knows, maybe Lucina's inclusion will be an impetus for Roy to be a Lucas/Wolf type character.

 

[Rabbattack]

Plz no

The Fire Emblem community says yes. Also, it looks really cool.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Yes, but Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit were supposed to be alternate costumes, they gained their own slot because was really easy to make them an tweak their proprieties a bit.
Roy was never meant to be a costume, and since he was supposed to be in Brawl too there's a good chance that he will be luigified.

Well then, why is Lucas not in the base game by that same logic? We have semi-clones like Ganondorf and Falco, surely he's in that group so he should've been in the original game himself!
The problem with that logic basically is assuming that all characters that could be alternate costumes --> clones were all thought of before DLC and can only exist in DLC. It could be that Sakurai wasn't open to the idea of Roy at first, or maybe he felt there should be one alt per character, so he prioritized Lucina over Roy for the time being. Or maybe Roy got some great ballot results in the beginning. After all, the only evidence we have of Roy is a ported music file already in the game so it could very well be that the decision to add Roy was a very recent one, since it's not like it took too much time or anything.

I do think most Roy fans see Roy as still being based off of Marth. Its just that we see him as ending up being Luigi-fied, whereas the detractors think he will be a straight port of his Melee self.

Basically, look at Falco/Ganondorf in Smash 4 and Brawl, or better yet, Roy in Project M. That is most likely what will happen with Roy.

However, who knows, maybe Lucina's inclusion will be an impetus for Roy to be a Lucas/Wolf type character.

Well, I'd draw comparison to him being more similar to his Melee self as similar as Mewtwo and Dr. Mario are to their Melee selves. Makes the most sense to me as they're all characters that were in Melee, absent in Brawl and returning in Smash 4.
But I think, as Roy fans, possibly a majority of us like/are fans of Melee Roy, so it's not like Roy being a clone yet again should be detested within the fanbase, right? Our stance should be, whether Roy's cloned or decloned, we're fine with him, but it seems most are on the defensive or are ashamed of the haters calling Roy a clone as if that's something we all hate as well.

 

[ChronoBound]

The only concern I have with Roy's return is that it will marginalise Lucina even more.

Lucina gets marginalized? News to me. If Lucina were not female, she would be the most savagely attacked character in the history of Smash Bros. next to Dark Pit and Pichu.

 

[Wintropy]

Lucina gets marginalized? News to me. If Lucina were not female, she would be the most savagely attacked character in the history of Smash Bros. next to Dark Pit and Pichu.

I've seen a lot of flak directed at her. Most frequently it's because she's "not different enough" or has "poorer stats" than Marth. The marginalisation comes into play when people just write her off as an inferior Marth, especially in high-level play (where, granted, very few people play Marth to begin with).

Valid criticisms, but I happen to like Lucina either way, and will still play her irrespective of how she plays or who's added. Though I must admit the "she's female so no touchy" sentiment leaves me cold.

 

[Frostwraith]

Roy being back is good news enough for me. Seeing him more differentiated from Marth would be great, but I honestly won't mind if he stays the same, as he already had significant differences from him thanks to t3h ph1r3. Anyway, I believe he will undergo similar changes as Falco and Ganondorf went in Brawl.

As for Dark Pit and Lucina, I don't care if they're clones. I liked both characters in their games and have fun playing as them in Smash. That's what matters for me.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Plz no

Yuss I'm not the only one.
Wouldn't rage if I saw Awakening design tho, it's sort of cool in it's own right.

 

[Adeptmune]

I've seen a lot of flak directed at her. Most frequently it's because she's "not different enough" or has "poorer stats" than Marth. The marginalisation comes into play when people just write her off as an inferior Marth, especially in high-level play (where, granted, very few people play Marth to begin with).

Valid criticisms, but I happen to like Lucina either way, and will still play her irrespective of how she plays or who's added. Though I must admit the "she's female so no touchy" sentiment leaves me cold.

I love Lucina a lot in her own game (and if I could've shipped her with femMU I would've), but my issue with her in Smash is that I honestly think she deserves better than total carbon-copy treatment, lmfao. Same goes for Dark Pit. But I still sometimes use Dark Pit in lieu of Pit anyway, so...
So it's not because "Ewww Marth clone," it's more of "b-but why does she have to be a Marth clone ;-;" from me, rofl. But I still prefer (Roy palette) Marth over her. However, both her and Dark Pit are fun characters to use. Dark Pit has the most incredible sassy hip-pop, too.

Roy being back is good news enough for me. Seeing him more differentiated from Marth would be great, but I honestly won't mind if he stays the same, as he already had significant differences from him thanks to t3h ph1r3. Anyway, I believe he will undergo similar changes as Falco and Ganondorf went in Brawl.

As for Dark Pit and Lucina, I don't care if they're clones. I liked both characters in their games and have fun playing as them in Smash. That's what matters for me.

This basically sums up me, too. I'm not ashamed in the slightest of Roy having t3h ph1r3, and if he still comes back just like that, well, so be it. It makes it an easier transition from Melee to Sm4sh for me, anyway. ;Y But yeah, I do think he'll have at least some changes done to him.

 

[Wintropy]

I love Lucina a lot in her own game (and if I could've shipped her with femMU I would've), but my issue with her in Smash is that I honestly think she deserves better than total carbon-copy treatment, lmfao. Same goes for Dark Pit. But I still sometimes use Dark Pit in lieu of Pit anyway, so...
So it's not because "Ewww Marth clone," it's more of "b-but why does she have to be a Marth clone ;-;" from me, rofl. But I still prefer (Roy palette) Marth over her. However, both her and Dark Pit are fun characters to use. Dark Pit has the most incredible sassy hip-pop, too.

Yep~

I would be very happy if Lucina and Dark Pit had their own movesets, but considering their origins, that just wasn't viable. So I'm happy to work with what we've got and be content with it. :3

 

[Ura]

Here is something I thought of for the Roy haters.

If he was going to be a clone like he was in Melee, then he would have been put in at the games release like Dr. Mario, Lucina, anf Dark Pit considering it would have taken little time and effort to make another clone. I don't think Sakurai is cheap enough to make us pay for another clone. Believe in the man.

I also think that this further supports the fact that this is the last Smash Bros he is working on. He is giving us the lost veterans before he moves onto other projects.

I think other people may have thought of this already, but Roy's neutral special should be the one he had from Melee, except that when you charge it, it shoots out fire projectiles or waves from the ground like Kirby's cutter without the jumping.

I think Sakurai is definitely going to be change Roy to a certain extent. I think he will most likely resemble Project M's Roy in terms of differences. He is going to have a few different-A moves and his specials will operate even more differently than they did in Melee. Pretty much he is going to undergo the same thing Falco and Ganondorf did in Brawl.

This was my theory as well. I thought that if they were going to bring back Roy like he was in Melee, they would have put him in instead of Lucina as the "Marth clone" so to speak. With Lucina filling in that role and DLC obviously not being free, it's really plausible that Roy will come back with a good 3/5th's of his moveset changed and some of his other moves revamped and will be what Luigi is to Mario when it comes to being similar to Marth.

The only concern I have with Roy's return is that it will marginalise Lucina even more. She already gets flak for being a poorer version of Marth, having a Marth clone that has fire and a different neutral-b would make Lucina all but redundant; except for the diehard Lucina fans, who'll still play her because they like the character, there'd be no abject purpose to her existence.

Well, seeing that theirs a strong possibility of Roy hardly being anything like Marth, I doubt it would make people change their opinion on Lucina whether it's positive or negative (after all, Doc, DP, and Lucina never really took anyone's spot. The roster was pretty much set before their inclusions. As Sakurai said in an interview, it's like getting a free dessert after eating the main course). Personally as a Roy fan, I really enjoyed the inclusion of Lucina in the game and I would continue to play as her even with Roy's inclusion. I also think that her getting in instead of Chrom was a good move on Sakurai's part because she's much more interesting IMO.

Roy being back is good news enough for me. Seeing him more differentiated from Marth would be great, but I honestly won't mind if he stays the same, as he already had significant differences from him thanks to t3h ph1r3. Anyway, I believe he will undergo similar changes as Falco and Ganondorf went in Brawl.

Considering he was already planned for Brawl, Sakurai must already have a good idea how to tweak him to be different than Marth. It's not as complicated as everyone makes it out to be lol.

One more thing... PLEASE USE THE AWAKENING REDESIGN!

Spoiler

Make it happen Daddy Sakurai. Pretty please? With a cherry on top? You can't refuse that.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

When looking at Lucy, she was still, at core, a bonus character from Sakurai, since she was formerly an Alt.
I was annoyed that she was just a mere clone too, for I would have even loved her as much in inclusion as Chrom with her own moveset (semicloned or not), but in place, she just got a poorly done implementation, considering her immense popularity and love from her fans and being one of more pivotal and deeper chars in Awakening. She really deserved more than being an alt -> poor clone.

Another thing would be that Lucy could serve as a balance between what could be supposed Roy getting his hilt-based sweetspot system back and Marth's tippers due having power drawn all over the blade. However, in case Roy pulls Lucas/Luigi to both, then Lucy might become as the Doc to Marth and Roy's FE Swords in the competitive community, only being a mere extra but with minimal changes to her attacks (which already has been proven inferior to already deemed competitively mediocre Marth as of these days). I quite hope that that'll change as time passes (and somewhat has with slight buffs she got in the recent patch)

Never the less, she's still here. I had picked her up again until Roy might be on the corner. I remember enjoying her free-style play a lot back months ago.

 

[Chris_Skorniak]

I honestly hate his awakening design. Then again I hate that awakening didn't use special costumes and animations for dlc characters. I was insanely disappointed when I got ike and I saw his aether.... No awesome front flip attack. Roy looks horrible in awakening and marth looks pretty bad too when he looks like Lucina who is only "good" if you breed her right. That's why awakening was not the best IMO. It was either do what I first did my first play through and buy the cool characters since I didn't like any awakening ones and cheese the game or breed like all hell and get good skills and stats. Didn't seem worth it to me to even grind up stats and that sucks because its the only way to beat insanely hard dlc like Ike's. I started my second play through and I'm gonna be only using my dlc character mainly. Roy and marth I got as soon as I could. Also it was weird that Ragnell was in the game as a sword for ike but SoS and marths falchion are not. And yeah I know there's Roy's blade or whatever. Also annoys me that Roy haters think he's a clone of marth when he's just the opposite of him and IMO better in every way especially in PM

 

[•Col•]

One more thing... PLEASE USE THE AWAKENING REDESIGN!

Plz no

Seriously though, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they gave him both outfits. Several characters in this game have alternate models.. Wario, Lil Mac, Bowser Jr, Olimar/Alph.. I think it'll come down to how Sakurai feels about the Awakening design. If he likes it, he'll probably try to put it in, but at the same time he'd also want to keep the melee Roy design in for nostalgia reasons.

 

[Dinoman96]

Seriously though, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they gave him both outfits. Several characters in this game have different models.. Wario, Lil Mac, Bowser Jr.. I think it'll come down to how Sakurai feels about the Awakening design. If he likes it, he'll probably try to put it in, but at the same time he'd also want to keep the melee Roy design in for nostalgia reasons.

Well, it's not like we got Marth's Melee costume as an alt alongside with his Shadow Dragon design, so...

 

[•Col•]

Well, it's not like we got Marth's Melee costume as an alt alongside with his Shadow Dragon design, so...

Yes, because they were going to make Lucina an alt. costume of Marth(and decided to seperate her at the last minute).. It wouldn't make much sense to make a Lucina alt for Marth and then also have his Awakening design, since it looks literally just like Lucina's with short hair.

EDIT: For comparison..

Spoiler

 

[Troykv]

I'd like to Roy had a design that was made as the official ... but that's just me.

Spoiler

FE 6 (Fuuin no Tsurugi) is my favorite fire emblem game

 

[Boo Jr.]

I still hope for 4 melee costumes and 4 awakening redesing, like Wario.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'd like to Roy had a design that was made as the official ... but that's just me.

Spoiler

FE 6 (Fuuin no Tsurugi) is my favorite fire emblem game

Spoiler

FE6 is my second favorite in the series. Only one I like more is Thracia 776. It was FE6 though that made me import the rest of the Japan-only FE titles. I really loved the map diversity and replay value FE6 had. FE7 is probably my favorite international FE, followed by FE9. FE4 was great as well, and FE8 gets an honorable mention, personally my favorite of the Gaiden FE's.

 

[FalKoopa]

Thracia 776

How did you even play that brutally difficult game?

 

[Ura]

I'm fine with Roy having both his Awakening and Melee outfits though he needs his Awakening outfit as his primary outfit (and the outfit he would use in his reveal trailer) because it looks freaking badass and so that people's first impression isn't "grr another clone!"

It's a huge opportunity and it shouldn't be neglected.

 

[J04KlM]

No Awakening outfit would just be a missed opportunity, so i agree with the idea of the Awakening outfit being the standard and Melee outfit as his alternate. That way, everybody wins.

Though, i'm not only curious about his design. But also what they're going to do with his voice, i'm thinking either:

1. Reuse his Melee voice clips
2. Bring back his Melee voice actor Jun Fukuyama, to record new voice clips
3. Give him a new voice actor all together.

Personally, i'd prefer 1. As i can't get enough of Roy's aggressive and overall really badass voice in Melee. But i'd still be satisfied as long as it's Jun Fukuyama who's performing his voice clips. A new voice actor i really hope they don't do.

 

[Ura]

No Awakening outfit would just be a missed opportunity, so i agree with the idea of the Awakening outfit being the standard and Melee outfit as his alternate. That way, everybody wins.

Though, i'm not only curious about his design. But also what they're going to do with his voice, i'm thinking either:

1. Reuse his Melee voice clips
2. Bring back his Melee voice actor Jun Fukuyama, to record new voice clips
3. Give him a new voice actor all together.

Personally, i'd prefer 1. As i can't get enough of Roy's aggressive and overall really badass voice in Melee. But i'd still be satisfied as long as it's Jun Fukuyama who's performing his voice clips. A new voice actor i really hope they don't do.

I think their probably going to reuse his old Melee voice though I would freaking love Fukuyama to return and record some new lines for him.

 

[sogeki]

I think I just had a pretty cool idea for a possible recovery for Roy if they do change him.
Do you guys know of one of Marth's up B customs, Dolphin Jump? It's when, instead of going diagonal, he goes straight up, but does no damage. What if Roy has that, but instead, he is encased in what looks like a spiral of fire, and that does damage.

 

[Adeptmune]

No Awakening outfit would just be a missed opportunity, so i agree with the idea of the Awakening outfit being the standard and Melee outfit as his alternate. That way, everybody wins.

Though, i'm not only curious about his design. But also what they're going to do with his voice, i'm thinking either:

1. Reuse his Melee voice clips
2. Bring back his Melee voice actor Jun Fukuyama, to record new voice clips
3. Give him a new voice actor all together.

Personally, i'd prefer 1. As i can't get enough of Roy's aggressive and overall really badass voice in Melee. But i'd still be satisfied as long as it's Jun Fukuyama who's performing his voice clips. A new voice actor i really hope they don't do.

Probably my favourite clip of his is when he flies off into the background, rofl. I don't know what it is, but I love that "Oooaahhhhhhhhh!" as he slowly spirals off... xD

I would really not like #3. That would make me sad, eheh. I feel like everyone here so far has said that, though. It seems we all love Jun's voice for Roy.

About the outfits, I'm pretty much smitten with his Awakening design (they picked my favourite concept artist to do his art, so). But I also adore his FE6/Melee designs, so seeing four of one and four of the other would be really cool. I also really wonder what kind of palette swaps his awakening design would get....*v*